Consistency between dialog, thought and action

[polywog]

People don't change their minds without a strong enough reason.
One's that come in willing to do stuff to that effect usually have decided before hand they will do so.
When it comes to pressure or threats it only works when the girl is an absolute moron and usually has no support system, meaning no friends, family or feels they can't go to authority. Teen runaways can often be victims of this type of nature.
They fear going to LE for being returned or report to parents, they can't rely on family or friends to protect them.

We covered all that difference under the post regarding observations.

If you don't understand why the necessity to make something like that fit. Read the opencourse ware from MIT on writing I posted under tools and tutorials.

People aren't machines. Your wishful thinking that nobody should ever get divorced, and in the same breath implying that girls who don't have a support system will take it up the ass, aren't even logical.

Programming people isn't the same as machines. I push peoples' buttons all the time... they don't have to have a good reason to change their mind, more often people change their minds for very bad reasons. pride, envy, gluttony, lust, wrath, greed, and sloth, to name a few.

 

[grtrader]

Removed because I am tired of staff behavior

 

[polywog]

I'm saying people always have a reason behind it in their mind. They don't go from one thing to the other for no reason. There is always a reason.

Nope. You just want to try and rationalize it.
A girl gets fired because she was late to work. Now she's desperate for money to pay her rent. Is she going to admit to Daddy that she failed, he already wants her to move back home. Did I intentionally make her late, by putting a hot-pink shirt and black leather boots on the mannequin in the window that she would pass, on her way to work, knowing that she wouldn't be able to resist, or was it just coincidence. Reason all you want, you'll never know the truth.

There is entire studies on control and manipulation hell the military has manuals on how to manipulate civilian populaces and all sorts of other crap. Look under FM and TM manuals to see what is out there publicly.

I made dozens of training simulations for the military, you're preaching to the choir.

Not just that they have all the data from serial rapist, murders, victims of crimes and so on. All those statistic paint a pretty clear picture.

Profiling is a joke. Only 1% of all crimes are solved, and perp convicted, yet in your mind you think crime can be predicted and prevented? you're so far from reality, you make 2D fans look sane.

 

[grtrader]

Removed because I am tired of staff behavior

 

[GuyFreely]

There is a fundamental difference between a person changing their mind and being inconsistent. I think it's silly to paint women as just random and unpredictable. As with anything, people cover a large range of this type of behavior. I think it's fair to say women are more emotionally driven and therefore seem to make illogical choices at times, but they don't have a monopoly on that behavior either. Anyone can let pride or anger or jealousy cloud their judgment. An intelligent person can do something stupid, an honest person can tell a lie, and a dexterous person can still fall down. The problem comes from defining something, a person in this case, and then constantly providing evidence to the contrary. She's super smart, but does dumb shit all the time.

Aside from that, I think it's problematic in a story to have characters that are just random. Regardless of how realistic that might be for specific people, it makes it hard for someone to follow a story. I think I've said this before, but you can have a character do something unexpected for dramatic effect, but that should be few and far between. The person you trusted the whole time betrays you, that kind of thing. By contrast, a girl who has no problem having a conversation while sunbathing topless later kicks you in the balls for seeing her in her underwear. Are there girls like this out there? Probably. Does it help tell a cohesive story? I mean unless you have a really good reason for her to be sort of bipolar, then I would argue no.

That doesn't mean characters can't change over the course of a story, but wild swings one way or the other are jarring. Someone can like you one day then be pissed at you the next, but you should know why or at the very least there should be a reason why. When it comes to deciding what someone should do in a scene, their character should define how they act and not be dictated purely by how you want the scene to play out. If you really want someone to act abnormally, you should apply external forces to justify it. You want the conservative character to act slutty? Get them drunk, it's a classic. It's a bit lazy, but it's something. When it comes to capabilities and competency, these are things that shouldn't vary as easily. A veteran shouldn't make rookie mistakes, etc.

There's another scenario where inconsistent behavior is acceptable, but again the responsibility is on the author to convey it. What I'm thinking of is facades. Someone who acts one way, but is secretly another way. Or someone who acts one way in certain circumstances, but differently elsewhere. This might be the strict bitch of a teacher or boss who likes being manhandled behind closed doors. The seemingly pious character who is actually a pervert. Someone who acts properly in front of their parents, but it wild when they aren't around. Again, there is consistency here in the established circumstances. When they act a certain way, there is a reason behind it.

 

[polywog]

Take some courses in psychology and or Artificial intelligence development.

I give lectures on A.I. and you tell me to read one of my student's books. You're gonna have to try harder than that Gertie.

It might not make sense to you or I but it does to them.

It might not be obvious to the reader, but it makes sense to the developer. Figuring out why the character took her clothes off is part of the game. It would spoil the surprise, if she said I'm gonna do porn today, as she hops and skips down the sidewalk on her way to the job interview. She hadn't a clue what was happening a moment before, let alone when she got out of bed that morning.

No I don't think crimes can be predicted and prevented to 100% accuracy. But there are computer models that are used to set police patrols for cities based on behavior patterns and other stuff. The only problem with it is that some groups call it profiling to when you are simply using statistics and data to look for patterns.

Now, you're headed towards the right path. The past is no prediction of future. Lightning never strikes the same place twice.
The police don't put a stake-out on the empty bank that was robbed yesterday, because statistically that empty vault is unlikely to be a target. There is useful information to be gleaned from statistical data. Manufacture defects, design flaws, material standards... but little to do with predicting anything of real consequence. Are you certain that we should recall 80,000 tires, because of the flaw revealed by this study? Is there a potential for it to happen again? We weigh the odds... risk analysis. Nah fuck it, we'll just settle with the victims if it happens again, it would cost too much to pull them all off the road. Human behavior is very unpredictable.

 

[grtrader]

Removed because I am tired of staff behavior

 

[polywog]

 

[grtrader]

Removed because I am tired of staff behavior

 

[GuyFreely]

I did a quick search online about character consitency. Here's a few things I stole:

• Create a Bible for your character. It doesn’t have to be complicated, but have one file, or a couple note cards that list characteristics. Left handed, blue eyes, lopsided smile to the right, hates licorice, loves flannel sheets, wears a cross necklace, right ear is pierced, etc. It’s surprising how such little details can escape your notice. In one of my picture books, a character suddenly changed from left-handed to right-handed and the illustrator had to redo that bit of art.
• Create separate dialogue files for each character. More than anything else, a character’s dialogue needs to sound consistent (unless, of course, you’re using it to indicate character changes). By creating separate files, I can read straight through just what a character says and edit, then put it back into the novel.
• If there are long spaces between writing and editing sessions, then be sure to re-read the previous sections. It sounds obvious, but it’s easy to neglect.

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Many writers create character questionnaires -- a list of standard questions that they apply to each character they create. Good questionnaire address many different aspects of the character, such as physical appearance, background, current life, personality, relationships, etc. Questionnaires not only help you develop a strong sense of your character, they also help you keep track of choices you have made about a character.

Another way to get to know your characters is to spend some time writing from their point-of-view. This helps you understand what they think and feel about things. For instance, it's one thing to assign a character a Myers-Briggs personality code. But it's far more illuminating to write a diary entry that expresses that personality. Finally, characters will grow and change in the writing process as you discover more about them and see them in action. The revision process is an opportunity to go back and make the characters consistent or clarify their arcs.
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Consistent characters run the risk of being boring characters. People aren’t consistent and characters don’t have to be either. Inconsistencies can make characters interesting, as long as they’re inconsistent in a way that adds something to the story.
While perfectly consistent characters may be boring, perfectly inconsistent ones may be frustrating to a reader: they never add up to a coherent personality. Inconsistencies can add depth to a character, but they have to be carefully controlled by the writer.

The last quote was pulled from a longer read on the topic of character consistency and how inconsistency can be more interesting if done correctly.

You must be registered to see the links

Here's a longer read on making good characters in general:

You must be registered to see the links

On breaking consistency:

You must be registered to see the links

Me:
One of the issues might be the way a lot of games are made in updates. Things happen months apart in real time when being developed. It's always good to go back and revisit what you've already written. This is actually a problematic area of the way these games are made. Often when telling a story, you'll find that something you want to do later means you should revise what happened before. In most cases, releasing v0.6 doesn't change what happened in v0.1 because people already played that part. They have saves that won't work or they won't have made a choice, etc. This makes it even more important to have planned the whole story (at some level) before even releasing the first version.

 

[grtrader]

Removed because I am tired of staff behavior

 

[polywog]

I did a quick search online about character consitency. Here's a few things I stole:

• Create a Bible for your character. It doesn’t have to be complicated, but have one file, or a couple note cards that list characteristics. Left handed, blue eyes, lopsided smile to the right, hates licorice, loves flannel sheets, wears a cross necklace, right ear is pierced, etc. It’s surprising how such little details can escape your notice. In one of my picture books, a character suddenly changed from left-handed to right-handed and the illustrator had to redo that bit of art.
• Create separate dialogue files for each character. More than anything else, a character’s dialogue needs to sound consistent (unless, of course, you’re using it to indicate character changes). By creating separate files, I can read straight through just what a character says and edit, then put it back into the novel.
• If there are long spaces between writing and editing sessions, then be sure to re-read the previous sections. It sounds obvious, but it’s easy to neglect.

--------------------
Many writers create character questionnaires -- a list of standard questions that they apply to each character they create. Good questionnaire address many different aspects of the character, such as physical appearance, background, current life, personality, relationships, etc. Questionnaires not only help you develop a strong sense of your character, they also help you keep track of choices you have made about a character.

Another way to get to know your characters is to spend some time writing from their point-of-view. This helps you understand what they think and feel about things. For instance, it's one thing to assign a character a Myers-Briggs personality code. But it's far more illuminating to write a diary entry that expresses that personality. Finally, characters will grow and change in the writing process as you discover more about them and see them in action. The revision process is an opportunity to go back and make the characters consistent or clarify their arcs.
-------------------------------
Consistent characters run the risk of being boring characters. People aren’t consistent and characters don’t have to be either. Inconsistencies can make characters interesting, as long as they’re inconsistent in a way that adds something to the story.
While perfectly consistent characters may be boring, perfectly inconsistent ones may be frustrating to a reader: they never add up to a coherent personality. Inconsistencies can add depth to a character, but they have to be carefully controlled by the writer.

The last quote was pulled from a longer read on the topic of character consistency and how inconsistency can be more interesting if done correctly.

You must be registered to see the links

Here's a longer read on making good characters in general:

You must be registered to see the links

On breaking consistency:

You must be registered to see the links

Me:
One of the issues might be the way a lot of games are made in updates. Things happen months apart in real time when being developed. It's always good to go back and revisit what you've already written. This is actually a problematic area of the way these games are made. Often when telling a story, you'll find that something you want to do later means you should revise what happened before. In most cases, releasing v0.6 doesn't change what happened in v0.1 because people already played that part. They have saves that won't work or they won't have made a choice, etc. This makes it even more important to have planned the whole story (at some level) before even releasing the first version.

https://f95zone.to/threads/sharing-my-process-of-creating-a-game.26090/#post-1615905

 

[polywog]

No idea what that video has to do with what we were discussing. However, I find it funny they are supposed to be describing anarchism which is a form of governing and in that process he comes out talking about companies being owned by the workers which is socialism/communism a form of economics. Anarchism in its base is the abolition of government or the way most see it is people self rule.

Chomsky
While I'll admit Chomsky is a damn good linguist in other aspects. He is no expert in AI or cognitive theory. In fact most his so called ideas tested in the area fail miserably other than for speech development.

You must be registered to see the links

His description isn't entirely wrong but its lacking a huge part. The second is a fraction of the first.

On AI or better MI
Lets start with Artificial Intelligence is a bad name to start with Machine Intelligence would be a better description of the first kind as opposed to organic intelligence like human's and animals.
There is a multitude of various intelligence functions that exist in the way humans learn. Those functions increase adapt and change over time and growth of the person.

The best way I can describe an MI is an adaptive Mutative Functionary system combined with a modifiable Neural network that is has an associative pattern recognition system and prioritization system ...
Every single thing we do can be described as a function. Even learning itself. People learn in various methods such as doing, reading, hearing and watching. Different methods work better for different people even in the same person different methods work better for learning different things.

If you think of an infant: Out side of autonomic systems it has a couple primary functions such as it cries when its feels discomfort. That's an instinctive or even reflex type system. But there is an associative system also. It recognizes the sent of its mother. But that's not always the case. My wife couldn't be around our child for the first 2 weeks of his life because she was running a fever and they didn't want him getting it. So I would drive from work to the hospital and feed him and so on. So the association of being fed he latched onto me vs her. So what you have is a basic neural net that associated the aspect of him crying resulted in me showing up to feed him. That made life a bit hell for her for a while after he was finally let out of the hospital. He kept expecting me to be there and instead she would be there. Solution a towel with my sent on it. Over time the sent decreased and he got used to her.
We have what are smart functions as well. When you practice doing something like shooting a bow or gun or playing a game. Those are smart functions making adaptions to the motions. They are simple functions that adapt the variable of lets say how much force we use, how tight we hold something... Granted there are other systems at play as well but right now just looking at motor control.
Then lets say you do something similar. You take a soda can and set it on the table and you reach out as fast as you can and snatch it from the table. Someone comes in replaces the can with paper version that looks identical but if you apply the same force you will crush it or knock it away. Then the person reenters the room and goes to snatch it again well the mind reacts associating the last experience with the current one and thus fails.

You wouldn't believe the number of things like that we ran test and observations on just to build the model we had.

In the end before closing the project it could rewrite its own code.

The biggest issues people will have to decide on in the future when it comes to AI isn't if we should build one because someone will. What is good and what is evil. There is no absolute consensus on that so who's version do we go by? What are we as humans going to teach it. AI's MI's will have a distinct advantage over other life in they will be able to pass down full knowledge to one another. Imagine an infant being born with the full knowledge of thousands of life times of knowledge before it.

The three laws are Bull Shit. You are hard coding it at that point and then you have nothing more than a program and a smart system. Because every action it does is forced to see if it violates those laws. Thus limits its very ability to modify its behavior and grow and learn become limited by them. How are you going to enforce that everyone who creates an AI even hard-codes those 3 laws in? You can't. You can't even track all the people who write programs today.

There are a couple parts I didn't mention above. Such as a goal system and priority system and yes there is an associative system for linking goals and other functions and processes / recipes together. A recipe being a list of functions and short term goals to achieve a more complex goal or function.

Human speech is such a small part it doesn't even make the 1% mark. Communication in its entirety is under 3% visual, touch, auditory, and direct input which humans don't have, unlike humans it didn't have pheromones or posture and facial expressions. Even if it did maybe another 0.5% at best.

The human mind makes use of basically every type of machine learning system we publicly known or teach in college and a few that we don't teach generally. The fact is some of the stuff we learned is only do to some sick bastards around the world over the last century doing shit we consider heinous as fuck.

What we learned is everything in the mind is done for a reason even when that mind is broken as fuck.

Back to Chomsky's video
I spent decades in automation. We have been able to automate most menial jobs for over 2 decades now. The reason we haven't is more an issue of cost. Companies look at the cost of investment of equipment and the amount of time for it to pay off and up and down time. Well up has been over the 99% rate also for the last 2 decades as well. The cost is drastically changing with low cost single board controllers coming out and 3D printing making it rather easy to make parts on location cutting out issues like lag time waiting for parts to come in and a lot of other advancements. Up time has increase even more so. Maintenance cost has gone down because of automated systems that handle part of that. Now add in factors like labor cost is going up with minimum wages and required health insurances costs for employers and stuff to that effect. It's starting to crest the tipping point. Which is why the number of companies researching into what it would take to automate even companies that run things like restaurants. It isn't however just in the menial area any longer they are looking at automation medical, legal, and other areas are all being looked at. Take things like internet support companies most the time they train those people to follow a manual and set of procedures in them. If the issue isn't in their little book you get shoved to tier two and if they can't handle it you go up again provide they have another level. All they are doing is following set of rules and functions. Which a computer can do. In short why have a person do it when a computer can and only when the computer can't answer the problem then hand it off to a person.

You won't have to worry about socialism or any other crap down the road the way I see it. Not when you have as much as or more than 80% unemployment. 15% of that will be the people who do work that can't be automated craft type work custom by hand art.... and so on. The other 5% will be the same general people who move the world forward and are responsible for most of human progress when it comes to technology. Getting paid isn't going to be a reason to work because those types of jobs simply won't exist automation will fill them. So people are going to have to change. In short all the crap these idiots are fighting and bitching over will come about naturally and be caused to come into effect because capitalism's natural end leads to it. The only way that doesn't happen is if government makes that level of automation illegal or something. The reason politicians would do that is simple they would loose all the power and control they have on a society if this comes to be.

Think about it the only money our government has is the money it can tax business and the people from wages. If people aren't getting paid wages any longer they can't be taxed. If they don't have wages companies can't make a profit from them so they can't be taxed.

Anyways all this is way off topic other than the AI/MI and that is only slightly on the topic because it evolves around the way the brain is built and that the way thoughts and actions are formulated and tied together. If you want to get into the other economic aspects and stuff we should create an off topic post on it.

I can only lead a horse to water. If they start drinking, it's their own fault.
You recognize that superego has made you a slave, and you take comfort from the temporary security that it provides.