Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 54] [CSDev]
Are the swappable starter items always the same eight, and if so, which ones do y'all prefer? I'm trying to make the miserable part (the first 8-10 days) of each loop less miserable here.
- Mar 20, 2019
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I'm looking through your save and while the vignette didn't show up in a couple of your current saves it did show up in your scene archives, meaning it did show up in your campaign it seems, I reloaded your older saves and it fired off in your day 22 save so try reloading that one, make sure to meet freedom with one of your bodies or ambassador and pass a few days to see if it shows up on your end
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- Mar 20, 2019
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It’s the same 8, and personally I enjoy the orgasm in the can or scwizzer (the instant INJU item) since I typically go for negotiation in my campaigns and the utility of it I feel gets even better when you take animalistic chosen into account. I’ve also had really good results with unicorn lard since early on in a campaign there isn’t many options to force the first appearance of the other 2 chosen outside of a rampancy forsaken or really Really low cost forsaken, it also really synergizes with spending days training your forsaken. However the utility of it does drop off a bit in later loops once the deadlines get to the point where the chosen show up back to back regardless.
I think depends a lot on the type of play style you employ
Yes.
I feel like any of the 4 that bring a circumstance to 10k are the most useful long-term, while Unicorn Lard is probably the most useful for your first loop. Tomorrow's Newspaper is probably the least useful as it is immediately supplanted by getting a good Forsaken.
- Jan 6, 2020
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Got a winner here. I just use Windows Security, but running the .exe as Administrator fixed both the inability to save and the Chosen overwriting other Chosen issues. Thank you.
What *actually* makes a good Forsaken? I have a decent forsaken candidate right now, I *think*, but you're the one who I've seen talk most about Forsaken in the thread.
She's currently well underway for a Negotiation Distortion but should I get one of the others to really really high Deviancy (t4 break at a minimum) so i can get a cheap early Forsaken? because any forsaken that costs more than like, 40-50 EE is something I can't see myself using in a loop until I've essentially already won the loop by being in that phase of hte game where you click Continue each battle until you rack the t4 break counters to 1000%//whatever distortions you are doingMy Forsaken Candidate? said:
Like, I suppose, that's part of my problem: If I want a cheap (5-7 EE) Forsaken that I can use in lieu of an early Commander how do I actually target them during a run to build up their stats in the right way (distortion, which breaks to get/not get, that sort of thing)
How the stats play out once they're forsaken sort of makes rational sense if you think about it, it seems partially based on which breaks they had and maybe their personality? Disgrace depends on how the public sees them. So if you expose them or turn them into violent mass murder machines, their starting disgrace as a forsaken will be high. So going for a T4 EXPOSE and/or HATE break would be a good way to have a girl start with high Disgrace.
If you can hack it loop one, a Rampancy distortion can be both an early game and late game forsaken due to their variable cost. Forsaken that only cost a handful of EE with have poor damage, but if you train them to target HATE/EXPO or LUST/EXPO or maybe even just one of those CIRCs, they should let you juggle and still do enough damage to get you started. Basically you mostly want them for the unlimited 5ish turn captures early on, their damage is gonna be marginal.
Overall, the best advice I can give you is to just play. Even if your forsaken are garbage you can just feed them to the breeding pits, regular commanders are still perfectly fine for quite a while, so just play, see what works and what doesn't. Also, the earlier you finish a loop, the more bonus time you get to train your forsaken before the next city. So don't wait until turn 50, push to finish as soon as you can.
EE cost is proportional to disgrace (not deviancy) which is tied to the dignity vulnerability. To minimise cost, you want high disgrace. To get high disgrace, you want dignity completely broken. The two distortions which target dignity are temptation and rampancy. Personally I recommend temptation as a first distortion- it's the easiest one to actually pull off and subsequently manage, the 1/4 motivation cost means you can use them repeatedly, you can have them switch to pleasure damage mid-capture and you don't have to worry late in the loop about decaying motivation (as with rampancy.) Also, I personally like 4EE (80 disgrace) forsaken, they can still do T2 breaks if you manage them well.
Of course I recommend trying out rampancy, even if it's in a stand alone scenario, you might find you love them. I've just always been underwhelmed and eventually let the tentacles have them.
I like Neutron as a future high cost punisher, the pleasure/injury bonuses are tasty.
I've already done all the distortions in my various loop 1 runs to familiarise myself with the gameplay (and what I wish the game told you was "don't try to do Negotiation in a run where you do any non-Negotiation temptation") but it took me until today to realise that the cor/sig/min vulns on a chosen ALSO influence their starting Forsaken stats. It's just a lot of mechanics and setup that feels very unintuitive to use or learn how to use (because most forsaken will have a crushingly high EE cost that you would spend an entire loop's worth of days training down if you so desired).
Imo that's my main issue with the forsaken, it's just three layers of complexity that only kick in after you already have spent multiple hours working through a loop
Imo that's my main issue with the forsaken, it's just three layers of complexity that only kick in after you already have spent multiple hours working through a loop
so far it has been completely "forsaken don't work for me at all and I don't even know where to start unfucking this" for me, which is a shame because I can see the appeal of the system, I just feel like I'm seperated from it by a pane of glass
- Mar 20, 2019
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Everyone has given some great advice so far so I don't know what else to really add, but it really helps to focus on what kind of forsaken you want, and how you want them to work.
So you want a low-cost forsaken, hone in specifically on what you want that low cost forsaken to do. Do you want the low-cost forsaken to easily break T2 vulnerabilities on chosen? Do you want a low cost forsaken to jump-start your distortion process to get off a distortion faster and easier? Figuring out that is the first step and from there maximize the potential/purpose of that forsaken as much as you can.
For example, if you want a low cost forsaken that excels at sodomizing chosen, go for an appropriate distortion that accents this (probably negotiation or aversion for INJU bonus) If you have a forsaken with a punisher that gives a INJU bonus to chosen they drain use that on your future sodomizing forsaken. Once they're forsaken, train them in a one or two damage style and any kind of training session you have with them is adding expertise damage to that forsaken.
Having simple roles and thinking like this allows you to figure out everything you need to do to your forsaken, even when they're still chosen. Allowing you to pick out punishers to use on them, what distortions you should go with and even what type of chosen would be viable for the role in the first place.
Going back to the earlier example and tweaking some things, say I want a low-cost forsaken that is built just to deal T2 morality breaks. Then I would distort the chosen with either aversion or rampancy, use punishers that help build HATE damage and train their expertise in a one or two circumstance damage style. Another thing I can do is make sure the forsaken I want for this role has braggart breeder (a punisher that grants bonus damage for every chosen they impregnate.) so now I have more of a clear indicator of who would be good candidate for the chosen I want. It may be overkill to a degree, but it makes it easier to see what chosen are useful to me.
Personally I have about 4 "roles" I keep in mind when I'm looking for potential forsaken to fill my roster. By doing this I can easily look at the chosen I encounter in a loop and figure out what I can do with them and I want I want to do with them.
Piercers - This role is a low-cost forsaken built to break the T2's on chosen quickly and easily. Often times I go for one damage type since they're meant to do one thing in the first place, but there is some merit to having a two-style forsaken. I try to have at least 4 piercers, one for each damage type. And sometimes few more with different damage types to cover my bases.
Punishers - This role as it's namesake are forsaken I keep solely for their punishers, I want their Disgrace to be low to fully utilize their abilities and their fighting style isn't as important as a piercer. I keep a solid assortment of these forsaken but mostly those that offsets the drawbacks of distortions or grants damage bonuses
Distorters- This role varies the most in that some of the forsaken in this role I train so they can help distort chosen faster and easier and some forsaken I train in this role simply to maximize the usage of their unique distortion traits/defiler. The main commonality is that the usage of the distortion defilers. Its good to have a wide variety of these forsaken in terms of EE cost since some chosen personalities are harder to crack with a distortion than others.
Generals- This role is something I thought of recently but forsaken built to handle the final battle in loops. while punishers and some of the other forsaken roles could accomplish this, I think the thought put into making a proper one is worth making a entire role for. It's good to have a variety of these similar to distorters since depending on the loop you're in or the distortions you're working with, it may not be viable to have all these forsaken at 100+ EE
This method is my way of organizing what I need to do to my forsaken and I highly recommend adopting something similar if you're having trouble figuring out how to make forsaken work for you
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Ok, let's try this.
There are a lot of things a Forsaken can do that are expensive or inconvenient to do with Commanders.
Your job is to pick something you want and design around that.
Here's a good starting place: EXPO damage. This is a very useful type once the whole team is out. Your Forsaken hits the first Chosen and sets her up. Then she hits the second Chosen even harder, which also makes your follow-up surround on the first Chosen even better. Let's look at what would be an ideal EXPO-focused (1000% EXPO) damage first Forsaken. Let's get one that replaces that early loop of buying a bunch of commander upgrades before you can use a Commander that's worth much of anything. Let's start stacking!
There are two distortions that raise EXPO damage by 50%: Rampancy (Demon Knight) or Temptation (Eager Partner). Let's see what the good and bad of each one is. First, each one has an associated Defiler.
Rampancy's Defiler is the ability to break off early (Release) or Rampage (stuns self, adds some amount to surrounds).
Temptation's Defiler is the ability to switch to doing PLEA damage (also can count as Tempt action, if the Chosen has high enough PLEA).
These two types also come with special traits that have to be considered.
Rampant Forsaken take all your EE when deployed, but can be deployed for any EE cost. They also gain Motivation when deployed and lose it when they're idle.
Tempted Forsaken cost 1/4 of the regular Motivation cost to deploy as long as their Obedience stays below 40%.
But wait, there's a third set of things to consider; the type of distortion will have a significant effect on her corruption stats.
Rampant Forsaken will have extremely low Obedience (avoiding t1 CON breaks), low Deviancy (avoiding t2 INN breaks), and moderate-to-high scores in Hostility and Disgrace. This means they will recover Stamina very quickly and gain Expertise quickly to match whatever damage type you're doing. Low Obedience and Deviancy means they start out refusing a lot of training actions. High Hostility means you'll have to send them out every so often or they'll fuck up your other Forsaken, because these bitches is crazy. Rampants lose Motivation resting, and when Motivation gets below Hostility a Forsaken goes and beats up everyone at your base. Their natural cost will be low, so you'll want to use them at the beginning of a loop and use Demons or other Forsaken later in the loop.
Tempted Forsaken will have extremely low Hostility, low Obedience, and moderate-to-high scores in Deviancy and Disgrace. They'll recover stamina quite quickly (though not as quickly as a Rampant Forsaken). They'll be able to be sent out a lot of times (this Forsaken is not ass-backwards, so it costs her Motivation to go out--but the cost is reduced to 1/4 because of the trait above). Even if they lose a lot of motivation, the low Hostility means when they fuck shit up around your base no one really gets mad, they throw little foot-stomping tantrums that just make everyone else roll their eyes (low Motivation damage). They'll be hard to train in different damage types because of the high Deviancy. They may refuse some training actions because of the naturally low Obedience, but they won't be as difficult on this front as a Rampant Forsaken.
Both types will be on the lower end of the cost spectrum because of the high Disgrace value--so we won't compare these directly.
OK, so decision time. Put those advantages and disadvantages next to each other and see which one gets to live outside of the Breeding Pit!
Advantages | Disadvantages | |
| Tempted | consistent, predictable EE cost, like using a class of Demon Can do PLEA damage once EXPO stops raising Easy to manage--low hostility and low Motivation cost. | sucks at gaining Expertise--can't retrain easily Can't send her out until you have some EE often "stuck" in later turns, since EXPO is difficult to raise high without HATE/INJU |
| Rampant | Easy to send out in the beginning with low EE Can fuck up multiple Chosen, not stuck to one for 5-8 turns dealing 2 damage at the end cuz all she do is strip them Can train/retrain quickly for other needs | Occasionally fucks up your other Forsaken cuz she bored High difficulty in accepting training actions Wants to take all your money (EE) which is a lot at the end of a loop |
So, I think that Tempted is better for this purpose. Switching to PLEA damage partway through a Capture is incredibly helpful for making sure that their Traumas get high. If you agree, let's talk about how you build one. Think of the end first. We need:
1) We need her to consent to doing a Grand Concert to get the associated Defiler. If her Disgrace is high, this will be easy--if not, we will have to raise it. I'll put a little training index at the end of this for stats.
2) We need her damage type to be EXPO only, but we still want her to have PLEA experience so that she does damage with Tempt.
3) We need her disgrace to be somewhere between 70 (8 EE) and 80 (4 EE). I'd recommend shooting for the lower end of this.
4) Important: we need her Obedience to stay BELOW 40%, or she loses most of her benefits because of the Tempted trait.
So, with this, we can come up with some sort of plan.
1) Earning the Grand Concert (if needed)
2) Raising Disgrace (probably)
3) Getting the correct damage type (1000% EXPO, then STOP training)
Okay, so how do we train? We can train for Corruption, for Expertise, or for Motivation.
To train for Corruption, the four % stats, you'll want to pile on trainings with Disgrace. If you're wanting to increase Obedience you'll always start with Drain Soul (check to make sure if you're training our Temptress here that this doesn't make it go to high). If you're wanting to increase Disgrace, you'll start with Grand Concert if she consents to it. Either way, pair the stat you want to raise with Disgrace, as Disgrace training makes actions not go up in cost. If Disgrace is the stat you're trying to raise, pair it with any of the others except Hostility (Hostility raises future training costs in the same session). Go from tier 4 trainings on down for the biggest results, just make sure they aren't too big.
To train for Expertise, the damage types, you'll want to pair Hostility and Deviance on the first two levels of training actions, then pick the action in the third tier that gives you the most experience in the type or types you want. If you're trying to make one of your current damage types disappear, make sure that you don't train that one as your third-tier action. Example, if you're trying to get our Temptress here to go from "100% PLEA/EXPO" to "1000% EXPO" you'll want to not use the Tentacle Show.
To train for Motivation, pair Deviancy and Disgrace on all three tiers, then pick whatever gives you the largest Motivation increase (without increasing corruption stats, unless you want those too).
Or, use a trainer. It's slow, but you'll always get exactly what you want, eventually.
How about adding in a feature in the main campaign that requires you to purchase it using influence? For example, an item that once purchased prompts you to choose a forsaken that you already have and it grants you to ability to start new campaigns with said forsaken. It can be an expensive item due to it's rather powerful ability, might even require you to fulfill conditions like "Selected Forsaken must have been in your service for at least 5 city captures." That way we can have a sense of achievement and earning that Forsaken for our next runs and the game can even detect if you already have a powerful enough forsaken to go against one of the special Chosen.
Just a suggestion, whatever you decide i'm just happy to be played a game like this one, it's one of the best ones out there in my humble-but-honest opinion!
That has unironically been an enormous help for organising my brain, and for how to look at the Forsaken, thank you.
And also everyone else, tyvm. I am struggling to get my two braincells to work but y'all have been a huge help.
Please imagine your anime character of choice with empty eyes and a look of confusion bc that's me. Looking at the forsaken reference it's... some sort of high tier Training action? (That I have never seen on account of previous troubles.)
What does that do?
It adds a bunch of disgrace, teach Rampant and Tempted forsakens their defiler and teach other forsaken how to Broadcast their captive. If you do it on a Rampant/Tempted forsaken who already has their defiler it will replace it by the ability to broadcast
Is it possible to capture all three chosen in the first city? I was able to get my first win of Nagano. I had all three with Hypno breaks and all T4 breaks. I maybe could try to get Parasitic T5 breaks on all 3, they were close.
My late game strategy has been:
use a suppressor+defiler combo to hit expo, pleasure, and hate all at once.
capture the first girl and Barrier until the second girl shows
cap the second girl, surround the first girl, target expo, then injur, then pleasure if i can
third girl shows up, use threaten & attack to stack a 4 surround and hit pleasure, injur, hate
surround the second girl, stack expo, inju
by that point I am in a position to keep stacking surrounds continuously on all three and position for a 14+ orgy
but the Orgys don't really help with the corruption? they stack serious damage, but they're not hitting Impregnation, Parasitic, or Drain.
My late game strategy has been:
use a suppressor+defiler combo to hit expo, pleasure, and hate all at once.
capture the first girl and Barrier until the second girl shows
cap the second girl, surround the first girl, target expo, then injur, then pleasure if i can
third girl shows up, use threaten & attack to stack a 4 surround and hit pleasure, injur, hate
surround the second girl, stack expo, inju
by that point I am in a position to keep stacking surrounds continuously on all three and position for a 14+ orgy
but the Orgys don't really help with the corruption? they stack serious damage, but they're not hitting Impregnation, Parasitic, or Drain.
Yes, it's reasonable to do; particularly if you avoid Rivalries so they don't murk each other in the final battle while you sandblast their Resolve if they aren't distorted
It's a tier 4 training action. It has the highest Disgrace number attached to it (100%, but that doesn't mean you have to be at 100% Disgrace to use it). Therefore, it's the best at raising the Disgrace stat for the Forsaken who need to cost less than they currently do.
Your Trainer on an Increase Disgrace plan makes it go up 1 per day. When you get able to use Grand Concert, you can easily raise Disgrace a bunch of points that day by just using Grand Concert and a bunch of other Disgrace training opportunities, so it's really convenient if her Disgrace is somewhere around 40-50 and you'd like it to be closer to 70-80. Without it, you're somewhat limited in what options you have to raise Disgrace without also raising Obedience.
The Tier 4 training actions are also how you give Forsaken their Punisher/Defiler effects, so if you do decide to build a Tempted EXPO-focused Forsaken, that's one way to get her the Tempt defiler (and definitely the easiest way).
Just don't forget you need to have researched parasitism (40 EE) in the current loop. You'll probably have done this but don't plan on using it early in a loop.
Definitely, you should expect to grab all 3 unless you're deliberately letting them go. If they're enemies and you've got antipathy, they'll only have 20% resolve. I only use slime+ since 1 or 2 levels of pleasure will make them surrender quickly. If you're making them friends I'd have one or two distorted since some of those are insta-kills.
General ideas for getting to 1000%
-You're correct in saying orgies are not vital in this phase. You really want prolonged battles with many high end uses of each move. Orgies can help you get those high levels, but then you need to make sure the chosen have a lot of time to use those high levels of circumstance. Trauma has no impact on this other than letting you surround for longer.
-Remember that they won't use a move twice in a row. In practice, this means that if they only have one move to do (slaughter or exhibit) they'll do that then regen, thus limiting the percentage growth. Try to stop them doing this as much as possible.
-Slaughter benefits from other chosen being surrounded for a long time, and probably is the easiest to complete. It will only be used when the surround timer is 3+. Also it's best to only have one surround happening for this, otherwise it's a doubly effective move.
-Exhibition is annoying, you don't want them using a low level, regenerating x4. One idea is to let them use a level, capture them to prevent the regen, then they'll use it again once released. They can "overwrite" a much lower debuff but this is a bit unpredictable.
-Explode has a hard limit of 3 uses (barring forsaken) if you focus on the one chosen, and usually only 1 use if you spread the love around. You'll probably only get 90% each time, 120% if you're lucky but at least this one's very predictable.
-Striptease just requires a lot of surrounds, it'll be used every time a new one is started so cater your surrounds to that and time it so the one you want does the stripping.
Anyone able to do something like this for animalistics and undead? I find their move use a bit random.
And congratulations on your win! You'll find the 2nd loop much more fun, the first is probably the biggest slog.