Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 61b] [CSDev]

[dekeche]

CSdev - Noticed something in the decompiled code while investigating how the Velvet key worked. It looks like you're using a seperate value for recording who's the "punisher taker" (i.e. ownBody.impregnationTaker), and the actual punished effect (ownBody.impregnationType) but the merge code is only looking at the taker's punisher type, and swaping the taker + punisher strenght values. There's potentially two issues with this. First, It doesn't loook like the merge code is swapping the actual punished effect. The forsaken class doesn't refrence the punisher taker when applying the punisher effect, so changing who applied the effect doesn't actually change the effect. Second, multiple uses of this efffect could result in a chosen being merged who's current punisher does not have the effect they are currently under, Which could cause unintended behavior.

I don't exactly have time to setup the proper scenario to test these in game to verify that the decomplier isn't misrepresenting what's actually in the code, but it should be easy enough for you to verify if the acual source matches what I'm seeing.

 

[fenyx]

this games hates me.
So.. Im doing a cheating single player, all items, all upgrades because I wanted to see the vignettes that Im missing.

these ones:

[ ] Dark ReflectioN
[ ] From the Descent of Guilt
[ ] TMI
[ ] Waste Not
[ ] Infamous Offer
They require that the chosen be friendly, (for some reason they refuse to be friendly even if Im breaking all minors first... at least at the beggining they ended up getting friendly in time)

somebody in aversion, somebody in temptation, somebody in negotiation

the negotiated chosen broke innocence in the aversion one, so I placed the tempted one in aversion (because I still didnt do much with it, so it was still possible)

and the aversion chosen for some reason decided to destroy the negotiated chosen`s morality!!!! ( I know this happened because I still didnt negotiate with the chosen, because I was trying to clear the requeriments from descent of guilt)

And to add insult to injury they all are solid friendship now!!!

 

[totallyanalt]

So the game alleges that it's mostly deterministic, but I can't figure out how to force a girl to Fantasize/Stiptease. Slaughter at least seems consistent on being triggered if another girl is surrounded and it wouldn't drop the surround turns to less than 1. Do these action also have some sort of cap per battle?

 

[SuperSkippy]

So the game alleges that it's mostly deterministic, but I can't figure out how to force a girl to Fantasize/Stiptease. Slaughter at least seems consistent on being triggered if another girl is surrounded and it wouldn't drop the surround turns to less than 1. Do these action also have some sort of cap per battle?

Generally it's very hard to make Chosen do Fantasize more than 4 times per Combat, and they won't use it unless they have at least some Trauma damage on them. Are you trying to get them to use it for the first time or after they've already suffered the Tier 3 Break? The logic is different, just like Tier 1 Breaks--once they've used it once, they'll use it in most situations that it makes sense to do so.

If you're trying to get them to use it for the first time:

Fantasize: Ambush the Chosen you want to use it and make sure you're dealing some PLEA damage during the surround, get it above 1000 and they'll use it the first time they can't use a different T3 move, generally. They use it to avoid taking damage in whatever Trauma is lowest in level.​

​

Striptease: Deal EXPO damage to a *different* Chosen from the one you want to use Striptease, and get that one to Level 2 (1000) EXPO damage. The Chosen that you want to Striptease should use it around then.​

​

If you're trying to get them to use it repeatedly after it's originally broken:

Fantasize and Striptease: They're best raised the same way, along with Slaughter. Send a standard Commander, max Captures and Duration up to 6, Flight if you have it (if not you only need 3 Captures). Start an Orgy as soon as you can, before Extermination finishes. Once Extermination finishes (when the Orgy ends), Surround only one Chosen at a time, starting with the one with the highest #Surround turns. During the last turn of the Surround, Surround another Chosen. The free ones will alternate between Slaughter, Fantasize, and Striptease.​

​

Notes on Tier 3 Selfish Tactics: They'll never use them two turns in a row (exception: Self-Destruct can be).

They'll never use Striptease unless either 1) At least one Chosen is surrounded and not affected by the considering Chosen's previous Striptease, or 2) Their EXPO level will result in a more powerful Striptease than the one that currently affects the Surrounded Chosen.

They will generally only use Fantasize 4 times in a fight, so raising their Circumstances before they start doing that is critical for gaining Punisher Effectiveness. Set up your initial Surrounds so that there's no point where two Chosen are freed at exactly the same time, so that you can re-surround each the exact turn that they're free. If you can't do that, Retry and change up your moves.

 

[fenyx]

You can make somebody use fantasize a lot more than four (thought its really hard) . If the use of a basic move levels up trauma (for example you use slime, disgust goes from 350 to 1000 ) they will fantasize almost inmediatelly (they wont fantasize twice in a row) the best strategy to keep someone fantasizing is to do some normal damage between surrounds , that way you can make them fantasize about 5-6 times

 

[SuperSkippy]

You can make somebody use fantasize a lot more than four (thought its really hard) . If the use of a basic move levels up trauma (for example you use slime, disgust goes from 350 to 1000 ) they will fantasize almost inmediatelly (they wont fantasize twice in a row) the best strategy to keep someone fantasizing is to do some normal damage between surrounds , that way you can make them fantasize about 5-6 times

You can, but if you're actually trying to make the PE go up, instead of just their orgasm count, the early Fantasize that they do at Level 1-2 PLEA is only worth 6-12% Hypnosis PE. You'll be much more efficient in raising it overall if you just let them get to high levels of Circumstance/PLEA damage first, in which case you're not likely to see it more than 4 times. If they use it early, it slows down their growth of multipliers, because they'll be taking significantly less damage in one category than they will others. I'd rather just get them to Level 8 PLEA and have them use the move 4 times for 216% PE (or even higher if I'm being wasteful about EE).

 

[fenyx]

and I consider myself lucky when I see more than 30-50%
My way of doing things mostly does 60 to 150 max

 

[SuperSkippy]

and I consider myself lucky when I see more than 30-50%
My way of doing things mostly does 60 to 150 max

My Play and Learn walkthrough is still in-progress but is just getting into punisher effectiveness (still some T3 breaks remaining). Day 17 was where I got the 216% Hypnosis figure from.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[CSdev]

Ah, I was just hitting back a bunch to exit out of outfit editing. Thanks


Additionally I just noticed that there doesn't seem to be an indicator for how many captures a commander has left. I feel like that probably ought to be put in parentheses next to the Capture button, the way Retreat shows you how much EE you'll recover

There's a tooltip if you hover over it, as I recall.

There probably wasn't any point to restricting the display to the tooltip, since just adding a number to the button doesn't take up much space. I've gone ahead and added the remaining captures to the main button text for R54.

No rush! When you do start to think of it, I'd like it if it had the following (not sure if any of these were in the last version, and some definitely were not):

• Basic text formatting that the game already includes, such as underlined text and colored text being accessible through some kind of tags (can use sRGB to define, but probably also easy to include some basic definitions like blue, red, purple, etc.)
• Line breaks as a documented feature to help line up text with game elements
• A switch lbl (line by line) that allows text to be added to the end of each line of game output. This is important for drawing attention to specific interface elements. Can be tied to a button
• A switch blbl (beginning line by line) that instead adds text to the front of each line of game output. Can be tied to a button

Those are enough to recreate something like the Guide in game, but there could be ways to make it better:

• Highlighted buttons for next Action using a completely separate color (Blue or Orange)?
• A Y/N prompt for users that click the wrong button while going along with a recording?
• A switch relabel that recorders can use to rename buttons for this particular command?
• A switch VMVT (violence, moderate violence, tickle only) that allows guide/recording output to be changed based on the user's Violence setting?
• Highlighted text accessible through tags?
• Italicized text accessible through tags?
• A sanity test in recordings that compares recorded game state to current game state and throws some kind of message at a user before going into normal mode if they don't match? This will make it easier to locate things that changed because of new features.
• A quick playback option that runs through an entire recording to do the sanity test mentioned in the last bullet point automatically so recorders can see if something needs to be changed or updated?
• The ability to change single recorded commands or text to fix problems brought up by the last two without throwing out the record after that point and starting from scratch? Like an edit button but for your replay? And/Or an "accept new game state button" that can be used to try to continue the replay from that point?

Anything else that someone can think of?

Some of these should be pretty simple now that I have a better idea of how Java works. Others would require huge rewrites of practically every menu in the game. I'd like to do all of them, but that might end up taking even longer than a normal update cycle, and I don't want to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I guess any functional in-game commented playthrough system would be an improvement over the way you're forced to do things right now. (I have been enjoying reading your playthrough, by the way - it's a great demonstration of just how much you can do without even getting close to the 50 day time limit.)

** Reads the latest post, sees the next distortion name, lightbulb turns on in mind **
Despair you say...
Affects the entire city you say...

Could it be....!? The legendary!?

View attachment 3689488

Ultimate Despair

I can only hope that this doesn't come to be known as The Smallest, Most Awful, Most Tragic H-Game Update in Human History.

CSdev I haven't played in a while and am looking forward to seeing what's new, but had a question or possible suggestion about using forsaken. I'm sure I'm not the only player who sometimes gets attached to particular characters or teams, is or will it ever be possible to upgrade or transform our favorite Forsaken's type to keep them relevant later in the campaign? I'd love to see a way to do this, either through rare items, or some sort of ritual or unlock by sacrificing chosen/forsaken of the target species to empower your favorites.

I could also be getting ahead of myself and something like this is already implemented, like I said I haven't played in a while but it's something I've been thinking about for a while.

You're definitely not alone in feeling this way. I'm working on adding features to mitigate it (a couple of the items added in R54 can actually serve that purpose), but it's probably always going to be at least a little bit sub-optimal to have your heart set on bringing one specific Forsaken with you to the end of campaign mode.

Forsaken preview seems to not be working for me on the new version. Everything else seems good at my first playthrough though. Thankfully the preview isn't needed as you can just use the reference sheet in the forsaken reference.txt

Thanks for the bug report. It's been fixed in R54b.

Dat girl was born with so many ways to f*ck up gameplay, I don't even see this as a bug, lol.

Well, different bosses have different ways of fucking up your gameplay. Maybe the real bug was that Splendor was infringing on Wisdom's territory.

CSdev - Noticed something in the decompiled code while investigating how the Velvet key worked. It looks like you're using a seperate value for recording who's the "punisher taker" (i.e. ownBody.impregnationTaker), and the actual punished effect (ownBody.impregnationType) but the merge code is only looking at the taker's punisher type, and swaping the taker + punisher strenght values. There's potentially two issues with this. First, It doesn't loook like the merge code is swapping the actual punished effect. The forsaken class doesn't refrence the punisher taker when applying the punisher effect, so changing who applied the effect doesn't actually change the effect. Second, multiple uses of this efffect could result in a chosen being merged who's current punisher does not have the effect they are currently under, Which could cause unintended behavior.

I don't exactly have time to setup the proper scenario to test these in game to verify that the decomplier isn't misrepresenting what's actually in the code, but it should be easy enough for you to verify if the acual source matches what I'm seeing.

Thanks for doing such a thorough lookover of how it worked. The first point was actually desired, and I ended up refactoring the way that Forsaken Punisher bonuses worked in order to enable it. Previously, the game would only track who was responsible for each Punisher, and it would check that Forsaken's properties every time it was necessary to determine the Punisher effects. But I realized that it'd be both counterintuitive and painful to deal with if you, say, merged your old +victim HATE Impregnation Forsaken and accidentally wiped the bonus from her victims. The way it works now is meant to be a "best of both worlds" effect where you can change them without retroactively losing whatever you used them for the in the past.

However, when I refactored that code, I forgot that I also needed to change the merge code I had just written, which is where your second point comes from. That was actually a bug, and it should be fixed in R54b.

 

[Salamandos35]

Can anyone point me to any coherent guide? Trying to get any breaks past T2 seems to be impossible

 

[fenyx]

Can anyone point me to any coherent guide? Trying to get any breaks past T2 seems to be impossible

T3 happens when you do an orgy.
Its counterintuitive because you need about 50 or so evil energy for some very important updates: networked consciusness and passion release

(you can also place some of the chosen ones in multiple defiler+ that is what I did at the start, but it takes forever, about 10 times or so, while a orgy of just 4 to 5 turns will do the work in one go)

 

[Salamandos35]

Yeah orgy is mentioned a few times, but no indication of what conditions are needed - I have found the step-by-step guide from SuperSkippy though and it seems to have the answers I need

 

[TheFakeOne23]

You're definitely not alone in feeling this way. I'm working on adding features to mitigate it (a couple of the items added in R54 can actually serve that purpose), but it's probably always going to be at least a little bit sub-optimal to have your heart set on bringing one specific Forsaken with you to the end of campaign mode.

Can´t speak for others, but in my opinion "sub-optimal" is fine for something like this, as long as it´s at least somewhat viable.

 

[Loki_viese]

found bug where whenever i use bargain on splendor that release forsaken, it somehow dupe one of my forsaken (it dupe my undead demon knight for this case). if didn't sacrifice one of them the game will lock itself after battle.

 

[wibblywarble]

Just looking for general advice, I'm on like Loop 5 and working on getting used to dealing with harder Chosen teams. I want to activate Smile's rampancy distortion plan for my next day but have been struggling and could use some advice. I've generally been able to get her to at least 11 round surround before the day ends but have been struggling to get it up to 15. If anyone has any recommendations that would be great. I currently only have 15 EE and have had some success with a INJ/EXPO Forsaken for getting up to 11 rounds, but they are a weaker one. as that's all I can afford right now. I'm on day 20 so I really want to get things moving. The EE drain from the undead chosen is rough.

 

[ThatRandomWeeb]

Got this bug when trying to deploy demon knight, other forsaken work. Any ideas on how to fix?

 

[Loki_viese]

Just looking for general advice, I'm on like Loop 5 and working on getting used to dealing with harder Chosen teams. I want to activate Smile's rampancy distortion plan for my next day but have been struggling and could use some advice. I've generally been able to get her to at least 11 round surround before the day ends but have been struggling to get it up to 15. If anyone has any recommendations that would be great. I currently only have 15 EE and have had some success with a INJ/EXPO Forsaken for getting up to 11 rounds, but they are a weaker one. as that's all I can afford right now. I'm on day 20 so I really want to get things moving. The EE drain from the undead chosen is rough.

View attachment 3726563

the way I handle undead chosen is getting either tempt /rampancy distortion on one of the chosen just to get the +100 EE bonus the first time you broke as early as possible (best scenario around d7 - d15). if I get it way too late, it's pretty much restart the run.

 

[wibblywarble]

the way I handle undead chosen is getting either tempt /rampancy distortion on one of the chosen just to get the +100 EE bonus the first time you broke as early as possible (best scenario around d7 - d15). if I get it way too late, it's pretty much restart the run.

Any suggestions or should I restart?

 

[Loki_viese]

Any suggestions or should I restart?

I prob restart knowing the normal forsaken can't get tempt/rampancy distortion (it's still safe run due to easier to get). unless you can get enough ee to reach rampancy distortion before you go minus then it's still safe. you can try hate/plea + expo for saken and start with truth and capture smile while making sure it's not flying imminent and last one capture puppeteer while surround truth expo+inju+hate first then hate smile.

 

[SuperSkippy]

Just looking for general advice, I'm on like Loop 5 and working on getting used to dealing with harder Chosen teams. I want to activate Smile's rampancy distortion plan for my next day but have been struggling and could use some advice. I've generally been able to get her to at least 11 round surround before the day ends but have been struggling to get it up to 15. If anyone has any recommendations that would be great. I currently only have 15 EE and have had some success with a INJ/EXPO Forsaken for getting up to 11 rounds, but they are a weaker one. as that's all I can afford right now. I'm on day 20 so I really want to get things moving. The EE drain from the undead chosen is rough.

View attachment 3726563

You'll get some EE from letting Truth's MOR break. It's a Core and Puppeteer still has her MOR T2 unbroken. Is that enough to get you some combination of Networked Consciousness/Passion release? Those are really helpful for building long surrounds.

Otherwise, I'd restart.

Some of these should be pretty simple now that I have a better idea of how Java works. Others would require huge rewrites of practically every menu in the game. I'd like to do all of them, but that might end up taking even longer than a normal update cycle, and I don't want to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I guess any functional in-game commented playthrough system would be an improvement over the way you're forced to do things right now. (I have been enjoying reading your playthrough, by the way - it's a great demonstration of just how much you can do without even getting close to the 50 day time limit.)

Thanks! I'll probably get back to working on it some this week. I just finished up a lovely vacation so I've still got a lot of other things to do to catch up around the house.

I got somewhat lucky in the team that was randomly selected--the many pre-broken traits allowed me to show off a lot of gameplay features in the beginning.