Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 70b] [CSDev]

[timmyofthelake]

Tomorrow's Newspaper is hilariously broken in early loops, partially for all the EE savings/refunds, partially because Punisher Commanders (remember, they cost no extra EE) have an insane damage mod and just blow through the early game. My first time playing with it, I had T3 Breaks starting on Day 7.

On my ongoing Classic playthrough for the guide I'm working on, had I not gotten aggressive prior to achieving 4-2 Commanders, I'd have gotten them at Day 11. Thanks to buying and productively using a 4-1 Commander on Day 9, I got my first 4-2 on Day 10, then had all T2 breaks at the end of Day 15, with 51EE ready to be spent towards either Synthesis or Networked Consciousness (haven't decided yet). I do think my Chosen might have been easier than average, though; getting started with a Day 12 4-2 for your first breaks is probably more typical?

 

[Nobody032]

Curious. On early loops at what day are you guys "snowballing" if that makes sense. I usually wait for couple ee commander, but feel like I'm rather slow. Way too slow to do a day 30 imago so im curious how people are doing it. I feel like the game is balanced around the single item for stuff. Tried inevitability, but it feels way worse.

Haven't tried the loop skipping yet but I always get an orgy between 15-20 days usually and by day 20 i have all distortions I need+ All relevant 3 breaks. Seems fast enough but don't really have a run to compare. Will try skipping and see how that goes I guess.

You can try triggering Rampage/Temptations to make your life easier because of the extra 100 energy.

I always get inevitability as my first item btw.

 

[Nobody032]

I agree that in campaign mode, pre-broken Chosen add a wrinkle that I'd prefer not to deal with. I absolutely hate when I can't get whatever Distortion I want to round out my Forsaken, and the problem becomes really acute if you're following alternative exits as I do. At this point, to ensure progress and not getting "stuck", I do make significant use of the character creator to make sure that certain Chosen I need do not show up pre-broken in ways that interfere with team-building. Otherwise I'd need to go through every loop to make sure I get at least some key Forsaken that I need for specific fights. Some examples:

I need a Prayer in Loop 1 to begin building Forsaken that are worth something right away, without pre-broken DIG.

I need the Superior Chosen in Loop 3 to be amenable to a Temptation Distortion for Loop 5. (needed for damage to EXPO/PLEA). She may or may not be hardcoded to come without breaks, but I make one to be sure.

I need one of either the Loop 5 or Loop 7 Undead to be friendly to an Orgy Distortion. (needed for damage to HATE)

I'd prefer if I could make a good Punisher out of the other Loop 5/Loop 7 Undead to start building truly top-tier Undead/Animalistic Chosen. I need the Punishers that boost Circumstance damage before I can build a true Forsaken roster. The best of these can be defeated with a Negotiation Distortion, but an Orgy Distortion will also work (they can't have pre-broken DIG or they come out too weak).

-------------------

On to your situation, as I understand it:

So what's going on here is that yes, they want to resolve PAIN enough that that's the Trauma that has the highest weight, and I suspect Eri/Cheer doesn't have T2 CON broken, but does have T2 INN broken. Do I have that right?

If you don't want to break Cheer's T2 CON because you're aiming for a Distortion, you can keep her weight high for Action 10 by keeping her PAIN lower (as you said, "doing less damage") or significantly raising her DISG without raising her PAIN very much. Are you going for a Negotiation Distortion on her? That would make it difficult since the only allowed Defiler that significantly raises DISG (Force Orgasm) also raises PAIN quite a bit. My guess from the visible Trauma is that you're going for Tempted instead, which means that Broadcast is a safe Defiler to use--it does the least damage to PAIN.

Another possibility would be getting one of the other two Chosen to prefer something other than PAIN. Paladin looks like she's only got about 12M more PAIN than DISG. If you get her DISG higher than her PAIN, assuming that she's got a T2 break there, she'll switch over to doing Action 10 with Cheer and you'll be getting +5EE from all 3.

Hope this helps.

Bait doesn't have any effect on what Chosen spawn in, it just makes the Bait Forsaken gain a relationship with the baited Chosen. You can easily test this by not having a Bait Forsaken and starting a loop and seeing all 3 Chosen, then reloading back to before you picked your city and setting a Bait Forsaken and seeing all 3 Chosen again, they'll be the same Chosen both times.

So here is what I meant by changing the chosen appearance:




This is the same loop with different baits. As you can see the undead chosen (Arcanum/Promise) were changed by changing the baits. So let's say you want aversion(Orgy distortion) on an undead chosen but you get Arcanum as undead who has pre-broken innocence. You can try changing the bait and get Promise as undead who has all clear vulnerabilities.

 

[Sonsuka]

Haven't tried the loop skipping yet but I always get an orgy between 15-20 days usually and by day 20 i have all distortions I need+ All relevant 3 breaks. Seems fast enough but don't really have a run to compare. Will try skipping and see how that goes I guess.

You can try triggering Rampage/Temptations to make your life easier because of the extra 100 energy.

I always get inevitability as my first item btw.

Yah I can get to day 20-23 orgy and distortion occuring. But damn i dont know how to in 7 days hit all t4 and have the energy for imago by day 30. I keep having issue of having them being friends or similar activity thus people with higher ee energy gen work together doing lesser ee tasks. Win around day 35. Its a recent issue recently. Has anyone seen the TV interview or was it removed or somehow have I just been skipping it? (Edit: I'm assuming one custom had any chosen allowed accidently thus it wasn't possible to see, I just checked. Can I get a confirm if this is true?) I haven't been able to see any of the events like the interview or mansion invitation and also constantly have them work on lower ee tasks together. i think friendship is just a deteriment to ee gains.

 

[Sonsuka]

Unfortunately as far as I'm aware there is no way to prevent race/personality changes from resetting the custom Chosen. It's really annoying.

Damn...I really dont want to edit the 100+ I have T.T

 

[timmyofthelake]

Worth noting that you don't need all T4 breaks to capture a Chosen, just at least one or a Distortion path. You also don't need all of the 100EE final battle upgrades to buy Imago Quickening - just at least one of the action upgrades.

As for getting vulnerability up for T4 breaks once you have T3s unlocked, I usually use one of two gameplans each day: if I'm just trying to raise most/all levels, I capture each Chosen once with a hybrid Commander (I like HATE/INJU/EXPO if I don't have the upgrades/energy to go for all 4) and try to get a strong Orgy going before Extermination ends, minimizing the turns that the Chosen have available to use their T3 actions before the Orgy, then Surround each of the Chosen in turn afterwards, letting the others do T3 actions freely with their high circumstance levels. This does an okay job at raising basically everything but CON vulnerability, which tends to raise slowly with this. For that, it's best to try to focus Captures on one Chosen and raise primarily their INJU level first. Flight is good for this, since you can use your last Capture on them at the very end of the fight.

Also want to point out that while it's definitely easier in the latter parts of a loop if your Chosen are Rivals, you'd definitely rather have Forsaken be friends, and it's totally possible to consistently achieve that in Loop 1.

 

[Sonsuka]

Worth noting that you don't need all T4 breaks to capture a Chosen, just at least one or a Distortion path. You also don't need all of the 100EE final battle upgrades to buy Imago Quickening - just at least one of the action upgrades.

As for getting vulnerability up for T4 breaks once you have T3s unlocked, I usually use one of two gameplans each day: if I'm just trying to raise most/all levels, I capture each Chosen once with a hybrid Commander (I like HATE/INJU/EXPO if I don't have the upgrades/energy to go for all 4) and try to get a strong Orgy going before Extermination ends, minimizing the turns that the Chosen have available to use their T3 actions before the Orgy, then Surround each of the Chosen in turn afterwards, letting the others do T3 actions freely with their high circumstance levels. This does an okay job at raising basically everything but CON vulnerability, which tends to raise slowly with this. For that, it's best to try to focus Captures on one Chosen and raise primarily their INJU level first. Flight is good for this, since you can use your last Capture on them at the very end of the fight.

Also want to point out that while it's definitely easier in the latter parts of a loop if your Chosen are Rivals, you'd definitely rather have Forsaken be friends, and it's totally possible to consistently achieve that in Loop 1.

I think I can 30 day it if I do alternate distortions to cause the greater sin issue to not hold back others. had them as friends with similar distortion causing greater sin to lock my ee gen early game. Edit: Manage to get to day 29 with all T4. Not sure if its worth skip still though considering you lose achievements which is a fat chunk of 200% if you go for 4 t4 for all 3

 

[antoniorandlast]

If you want to apply custom portraits, you can add the new folders to the portraits folder. Then in the game, you have to actually create a chosen with the same name as that folder to include the new custom chosen.

Been trying to figure this out with a couple portrait packs. I know you can use the "Change Portrait" button under info during a game to change the pack the chosen uses, but haven't found an option to actually create one that uses the pack by default. Am I just missing something or is that not possible?

 

[SuperSkippy]

Yah I can get to day 20-23 orgy and distortion occuring. But damn i dont know how to in 7 days hit all t4 and have the energy for imago by day 30. I keep having issue of having them being friends or similar activity thus people with higher ee energy gen work together doing lesser ee tasks. Win around day 35. Its a recent issue recently. Has anyone seen the TV interview or was it removed or somehow have I just been skipping it? (Edit: I'm assuming one custom had any chosen allowed accidently thus it wasn't possible to see, I just checked. Can I get a confirm if this is true?) I haven't been able to see any of the events like the interview or mansion invitation and also constantly have them work on lower ee tasks together. i think friendship is just a deteriment to ee gains.

I know that if your team doesn't have exactly 4 Core, 4 Minor, 4 Significant vulnerabilities, each divided up 2-1-1 with no 2 having the same level of vuln on the same stat, you can't get those vignettes. I have not experimented with "allow any team" enough to know whether a team that meets those requirements with an "allow any" Chosen will still get them. "Core Break" vignettes will also be disabled if the team doesn't meet the standard requirements--it wouldn't surprise me if including an "any team" chosen disables these even if the team would otherwise be legal.

If your "greater sins imminent" is keeping you from maximum EE, it's not the similar ones that are keeping you from maximizing EE, it's the ones that have different breaks. I did a deep dive into the source code on this one lately that's still on the past few pages here. If they've all got, say, T3 INN breaks, and INN is the one they all want to relieve the most, they'll do the associated downtime together as long as they meet the initial requirements.

Let me give you a suggestion for what I aim for in Loop 1 to hit the warp consistently. I want:
2 Chosen with the same Distortion
1 Chosen undistorted

I want 2 with the same Distortion because that gives you the related Achievement for that Distortion, which basically doubles the speed at which the Distortion progresses with repeated usage. Orgy goes down 2 turns per usage instead of 1, Tempt is changed by a .85 multiplier instead of a .9, and so on. I want the last one undistorted because of the need for quick T1/T2 breaks (generally I'd like this one to be the one with two Core Vulns) to quickly get the EE for Networked Consciousness. I aim for having them all hate each other Loop 1, because in the long run regular Forsaken aren't really worth keeping around. The benefit for making them all like each other is only easier training--and I just don't care about their training until we start getting to better species.

 

[McHuman]

Been trying to figure this out with a couple portrait packs. I know you can use the "Change Portrait" button under info during a game to change the pack the chosen uses, but haven't found an option to actually create one that uses the pack by default. Am I just missing something or is that not possible?

If you want a Chosen to use a custom portrait by default you need to make their Alias name the same name as the name of the portrait's folder. For example, the Chosen with the alias Chaos will use the portraits contained in the Chaos folder.

 

[timmyofthelake]

I haven't tested if you keep achievement progress from Distorting Chosen if you break the Distortion - if it does, seems like the best route for loop 1 is probably triple Distortion into breaking all 3 Distortions for full T4 breaks. Days shouldn't be an issue with Newspaper, I'd imagine.

 

[antoniorandlast]

If you want a Chosen to use a custom portrait by default you need to make their Alias name the same name as the name of the portrait's folder. For example, the Chosen with the alias Chaos will use the portraits contained in the Chaos folder.

I did not word that very well, but what I was looking for was a way to import custom rosters... just like the import roster button in campaign... well, answered my own question. Haha

 

[SuperSkippy]

I haven't tested if you keep achievement progress from Distorting Chosen if you break the Distortion - if it does, seems like the best route for loop 1 is probably triple Distortion into breaking all 3 Distortions for full T4 breaks. Days shouldn't be an issue with Newspaper, I'd imagine.

Yes, this doubles up on Achievements (and can bunch up some early EE as well, depending on the Distortion).

 

[Sonsuka]

Been trying to figure this out with a couple portrait packs. I know you can use the "Change Portrait" button under info during a game to change the pack the chosen uses, but haven't found an option to actually create one that uses the pack by default. Am I just missing something or is that not possible?

Oh for this. You need to create a character early on before you start a campaign. there should be a create chosen option. Then do what you need to create it there. When it asks for the name put in the name of whatever you use will name a folder(discussed later). For example, you want a chosen name Sarah, you would name the folder Sarah and then name the chosen Sarah. Then in the portrait folder in the folder of the game (like the entire game) you make a new folder(folder i talked about) inside of it then add 9 pictures as below for your custom Chosen. Then you can add forsaken folder for it. The other are unnecessary really as you will set the race so they will only really be the default (9 png u see). The Forsaken folder has 9 png or you can use none, it just replaces the png if you want when they are forsaken.

 

[Sonsuka]

I know that if your team doesn't have exactly 4 Core, 4 Minor, 4 Significant vulnerabilities, each divided up 2-1-1 with no 2 having the same level of vuln on the same stat, you can't get those vignettes. I have not experimented with "allow any team" enough to know whether a team that meets those requirements with an "allow any" Chosen will still get them. "Core Break" vignettes will also be disabled if the team doesn't meet the standard requirements--it wouldn't surprise me if including an "any team" chosen disables these even if the team would otherwise be legal.

If your "greater sins imminent" is keeping you from maximum EE, it's not the similar ones that are keeping you from maximizing EE, it's the ones that have different breaks. I did a deep dive into the source code on this one lately that's still on the past few pages here. If they've all got, say, T3 INN breaks, and INN is the one they all want to relieve the most, they'll do the associated downtime together as long as they meet the initial requirements.

Let me give you a suggestion for what I aim for in Loop 1 to hit the warp consistently. I want:
2 Chosen with the same Distortion
1 Chosen undistorted

I want 2 with the same Distortion because that gives you the related Achievement for that Distortion, which basically doubles the speed at which the Distortion progresses with repeated usage. Orgy goes down 2 turns per usage instead of 1, Tempt is changed by a .85 multiplier instead of a .9, and so on. I want the last one undistorted because of the need for quick T1/T2 breaks (generally I'd like this one to be the one with two Core Vulns) to quickly get the EE for Networked Consciousness. I aim for having them all hate each other Loop 1, because in the long run regular Forsaken aren't really worth keeping around. The benefit for making them all like each other is only easier training--and I just don't care about their training until we start getting to better species.

I tried it out on city2 which is "harder" i guess than city1 since its got some debuff. Manage to get it to sub 30 with all undistorted on city 2 . i probably was struggling since i was doing 3 distortion on city 1 thus making it a haste compare to having 1 undistorted to just slam ee generation early. Good advice though exactly what I did

 

[Sonsuka]

Also does anyone know what decides between meetup(bath) or interview? I was kinda excited to see a interview on day 15, but it went to bath T.T. Also has anyone every gotten t4 before the interview. It seems actually doable if you mix max it to the extreme and get parasitism I think. I definately didnt play to the true optimal but got t4 by day 19, which is a first for me. newspaper is ridiculously busted. Edit: t3 does nothing it seems no dialogue swap.

 

[TheFakeOne23]

I think it was said that innocence breaks weighed in on which gets chosen, with the reasoning for it being the bath scene is written more innocent while for the interview they´re supposed to be more "damaged"/less innocent. HOW strong this weight is I don´t know.

 

[McHuman]

I haven't tested if you keep achievement progress from Distorting Chosen if you break the Distortion - if it does, seems like the best route for loop 1 is probably triple Distortion into breaking all 3 Distortions for full T4 breaks. Days shouldn't be an issue with Newspaper, I'd imagine.

I'd say it really depends, as while it would double dip for achievements, you might not want to break the Distortion if you want to use that Chosen as a Forsaken, for example if you get a good Chosen with good positions for it you might want to keep them as a Rampancy Distortion due to how useful a Rampancy Chosen is as a Forsaken. Personally I think this double dipping would probably work better for loop 2, since if possible you'll want to start getting good Forsaken as early as possible, and the benefits from double dipping wouldn't really be relevant for loops 2-3.

I tried it out on city2 which is "harder" i guess than city1 since its got some debuff. Manage to get it to sub 30 with all undistorted on city 2 . i probably was struggling since i was doing 3 distortion on city 1 thus making it a haste compare to having 1 undistorted to just slam ee generation early. Good advice though exactly what I did

To be fair, Loop 1 and 2 are basically the same, the modifiers for Loop 2 are so weak that they're kinda irrelevant if you know what you're doing. Even Loop 3's modifiers aren't that noticeable unless you pair it with picking the city with the Superior Chosen.

Also does anyone know what decides between meetup(bath) or interview? I was kinda excited to see a interview on day 15, but it went to bath T.T. Also has anyone every gotten t4 before the interview. It seems actually doable if you mix max it to the extreme and get parasitism I think. I definately didnt play to the true optimal but got t4 by day 19, which is a first for me. newspaper is ridiculously busted.

Low breaks prefer the bath scene while high breaks prefer the interview. Also loop 1 is guaranteed to be the interview and loop 3 is guaranteed to be the bath.

 

[Sonsuka]

Low breaks prefer the bath scene while high breaks prefer the interview. Also loop 1 is guaranteed to be the interview and loop 3 is guaranteed to be the bath.

Didnt know that. Shame that t3 break doesnt change the dialogue was hoping it would. Manage to t3 it before day 12 and saw no change T.T

 

[TheFakeOne23]

I´m still very strongly hoping for a function to import/export clothing articles and/or entire outfits, it´d vastly improve (and shorten the time needed) custom Chosen. Considering we already CAN inport/export entire Chosen I´d think it´d be possible to implement such a thing, though I suppose only the dev would know for sure.