Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 70b] [CSDev]

[ShadowWolf96]

It currently isn't possible to have multiples of the same personality trait on the same team, because the game uses the personality contrasts to determine when the relationship development scenes happen, and you might end up with duplicate scenes or two Chosen not having any scenes together. This will eventually have to change, because the "boss" Chosen in the campaign mode won't use the usual personality generation rules, and they'll be partnered with underlings who have the same general personality type. So, in the process of making that possible, there will also be more flexibility added for custom teams (which should also make it more possible to replicate characters from other settings).

In order to reach higher corruption levels, you want to use multiple training actions of the same type at once. Because not all of the training actions have been implemented yet, it's rare to be able to get above 50% or so. Forsaken with high deviancy are too kinky to be bothered by much of anything, so it might be hard to get them even that high.

There isn't exactly an "endless mode," but there is a cheat to change what day it is. You can repeatedly set it back to the same day in order to avoid any time pressure, or you can set it after the final battle so that no other events will happen to interrupt what you're doing.

I hadn't realized that this was an issue on some computers. I'll look into adding a toggle for the button sizes too.

Thanks
Don't have a complete understanding of manipulating combat style to what i want.
I did have one whit only 2 (hate/inju) den that went to 1 (inju) den 3 (hate/plea/inju) and then back to 1 (inju) agen i want to get back to 2

 

[Celerarity]

Man, no matter what I do I can't get a single core vulnerability. It feels like no matter how many things I try to stack on - say, HATE - the matching trauma - FEAR - rises quickly enough to keep the multiplier too low to do anything meaningful. Even if I never threaten or go out of my way to increase it. Just surrounding and pummeling is giving me 1000s a turn. Am I missing some way to make this easier?

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

Man, no matter what I do I can't get a single core vulnerability. It feels like no matter how many things I try to stack on - say, HATE - the matching trauma - FEAR - rises quickly enough to keep the multiplier too low to do anything meaningful. Even if I never threaten or go out of my way to increase it. Just surrounding and pummeling is giving me 1000s a turn. Am I missing some way to make this easier?

1. Start with INJU (Pummel), then HATE (Grind), unless the target is very INJU-resistant (0-1 minuses). If they're resistant to both, you're gonna have a hard time.
2. Have someone else stripped (EXPO) beforehand. That might be the thing you're missing. Using an unspecialized 2-use 4-turn commander, I actually target the secondary Chosen first to get that EXPO bonus for the primary target I'm aiming to break.

 

[Celerarity]

I start every fight by getting EXPO on someone else. How much INJU are we looking for here? 1 rank is easy but getting to two without using a specialized commander or stacking a ton of trauma for a very long pin seems like it would take most of the time we have.

 

[Celerarity]

Hmm, did some reading of your example playthrough and methods and they worked pretty well for me. I think I was allowing PLEA to rise too early (due to wanting a large capture rating), and making a mistake using specialized commanders for everything (the tutorial commander was specialized and I didn't know that the default one had more control).

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

Hmm, did some reading of your example playthrough and methods and they worked pretty well for me. I think I was allowing PLEA to rise too early (due to wanting a large capture rating), and making a mistake using specialized commanders for everything (the tutorial commander was specialized and I didn't know that the default one had more control).

Yeah, PLEA is something I rarely want to increase unless I'm going for an Innocence break, and even then INJU and HATE go first. As for specialized commanders, Suppressors on their own are very rarely worth using and the ones I've used the most by far are Spite and Hunger + Anger. Anything with PLEA on it has turned out miserably in my experience, except on those monsters I put together for the final fight.

 

[Karnewarrior]

PLEA kind of sucks because it's actually a distraction early on. You want PLEA because it's a porn game and girls cumming all over the place is hot, but if you go for it too early the meguca you're fighting won't have any weakness to anything and you'll slow to a crawl.

It sucks if you don't like the hard Ryona at the upper ends of INJU because INJU is kind of necessary for getting anywhere - you need to stack that, HATE, and someone else's EXPO.

My go-to is to make a commander that focuses on EXPO (and INJU and HATE later on, once I've got the upgrades to stack them) and delay Ambush for just one or two turns so that you're hitting level 2 EXPO right around the time the other magical girls start showing up. Then you can target them with normal attacks until you've got 4-6 turns worth of capture time - anything less than that isn't super useful because you can't tell your guys to do everything. For the main target you focus on grind and pummel first, for the other non-target it's more stripping.

Once you've got a couple levels in HATE and INJU, plus some EXPO on the other girls, the stats on top stop mattering; it takes 1 Million points to make a 1/10th difference, and Level 2 HATE + Level 2 INJU + Level 2 EXPO on two other girls already nullifies that decrease plus a bit, and the stuff up top keeps growing to absurd levels so you can start pinning girls for 20+ turns... The snowball is real in this game, dude.

 

[Realmsplitter]

This game is strange, instead of a fixed amount you have to get the heroines over to break them, its a series of events and circumstances you have to repeatedly make in order for them to feel like breaking.
takes too long, is very complicated and dowright confusing at times.

 

[Sheik100]

This game is strange, instead of a fixed amount you have to get the heroines over to break them, its a series of events and circumstances you have to repeatedly make in order for them to feel like breaking.
takes too long, is very complicated and dowright confusing at times.

I gave it a try last update and really agree with this. I gave up after getting to stage 2 stats without much happening. It was also very RNG on the first few girls you get and if you had a bad role on 1st girl it meant progress just didnt happen.. then you get behind on upgrades for when more girls show up. The problem I see is theres tons of effort to learn the systems but payoff doesnt happen.. not even scenes the upgrades are practically nullified when the girls start teaming up and you rarely gain extra turns. You have to do a dozen battles to build (well.. breakdown) their stats and grind points right from the start but thats just to get to stage 2 stats or a stage 3 stat.

When the vets are saying to never use pleasure and I as the player, of an H-game, mostly want to make the girls cum theres just a de-sync in player and game goals. The game goal seems to be capturing/ breaking, but as a player it seems there should be room for some lewdness happening during battles. And maybe more room for gaining turns as you never really get ahead from the upgrades.

Ill be giving it another try sometime because the idea is really good but just from looking at updates it doesnt seem like early stuff is being touched.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

I gave it a try last update and really agree with this. I gave up after getting to stage 2 stats without much happening. It was also very RNG on the first few girls you get and if you had a bad role on 1st girl it meant progress just didnt happen.. then you get behind on upgrades for when more girls show up. The problem I see is theres tons of effort to learn the systems but payoff doesnt happen.. not even scenes the upgrades are practically nullified when the girls start teaming up and you rarely gain extra turns. You have to do dozens of battles to build (well.. breakdown) their stats and grind points right from the start but thats just to get to stage 2 stats.

There's no such thing as "being behind on upgrades" based on how many Chosen are active. It's a common mistake to think you're supposed to "win" the first few days, or break anything. The meta is pretty much to fast-forward the first 11 days or so (by spamming the Chosen with the correct basic actions to build some Angst on each of them) and then, once you have a 2-use commander, ideally with a 4-turn duration, that's when you can start breaking stuff.

When the vets are saying to never use pleasure and I as the player, of an H-game, mostly want to make the girls cum theres just a de-sync in player and game goals. The game goal seems to be capturing/ breaking, but as a player it seems there should be room for some lewdness happening during battles. And maybe more room for gaining turns as you never really get ahead from the upgrades.

Oh, you can use Pleasure-based abilities, just not as an opener. You want to build circumstance multipliers first (HATE, INJU) before using Caress or Force Orgasm. That said, I consider Pleasure-based stuff to be more... volatile, because the potentially massive incoming Trauma can end up breaking tier 3 vulnerabilities (100M trauma, then 1G etc.) before you want to. Pleasure is basically the fastest way to turn the Chosens' resistances to jelly (from Angst and breaking T3 vulnerabilities), but also ends up giving them OP abilities to fight back with.

 

[Sheik100]

once you have a 2-use commander, ideally with a 4-turn duration, that's when you can start breaking stuff.

Oh, you can use Pleasure-based abilities, just not as an opener. You want to build circumstance multipliers first (HATE, INJU) before using Caress or Force Orgasm. That said, I consider Pleasure-based stuff to be more... volatile, because the potentially massive incoming Trauma can end up breaking tier 3 vulnerabilities (100M trauma, then 1G etc.) before you want to. Pleasure is basically the fastest way to turn the Chosens' resistances to jelly (from Angst and breaking T3 vulnerabilities), but also ends up giving them OP abilities to fight back with.

I guess Im trying to say the new player experience isnt great. Getting to the point where I can have multiple stats at stage 2 and 1 at stage 3 doesnt make much happen on its own but thats still hours of investment getting to that point. Sure following a guide I guess I can make things happen from there but as it is on its own Id have had to sink hours on top of that to get anywhere. For 1 thing, I wouldnt have thought investing into the commander would have been the way to go myself because the deployment costs were pretty high already. And then Id have no way to know that pleasure leads to high trauma that leads to them getting abilities, I assume that would be reason to restart if someone just stumbles into that?

From looking at the game page it doesnt seem like the developers intend for the game to be difficult to play or figure out. I think the gameplay is really unique and inventive but its definitely not intuitive.

There's no such thing as "being behind on upgrades" based on how many Chosen are active. It's a common mistake to think you're supposed to "win" the first few days, or break anything. The meta is pretty much to fast-forward the first 11 days or so (by spamming the Chosen with the correct basic actions to build some Angst on each of them) and then,

The way I see it if you have a girl thats weak to INJ to start you can get way more upgrade points and have more turns by the time the 2nd girl showed up. Bear with me its been a week or so since I played it. Other weaknesses arent that much worse than INJ so not a huge loss. But you could get a bad roll with 1st girl that has high resistances across the board and I believe EXPO as main weakness didnt give much points. Maybe it doesnt actually matter but it does feel worse from a player perspective to have the starting girl give less points because once more girls are around they clean up faster and then you have less turns.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

I guess Im trying to say the new player experience isnt great. Getting to the point where I can have multiple stats at stage 2 and 1 at stage 3 doesnt make much happen on its own but thats still hours of investment getting to that point. Sure following a guide I guess I can make things happen from there but as it is on its own Id have had to sink hours on top of that to get anywhere. For 1 thing, I wouldnt have thought investing into the commander would have been the way to go myself because the deployment costs were pretty high already. And then Id have no way to know that pleasure leads to high trauma that leads to them getting abilities, I assume that would be reason to restart if someone just stumbles into that?

Yeah, I spent several hours myself, over multiple sessions, before I understood enough to be effective. Few games have this kind of design that's about exponential gains, so I made the mistake of "turtling" with upgrades too, thinking the commander would be worthwhile once I could comfortably afford it. Nah. It's your sledgehammer and you should use it as soon as you can start breaking stuff with it, though a basic unspecialized 2x4 commander is enough for much of the game, leaving the rest of your EE for passive upgrades.

And then Id have no way to know that pleasure leads to high trauma that leads to them getting abilities, I assume that would be reason to restart if someone just stumbles into that?

Well, getting 1 of them is normal and probably needed to capture that Chosen in the final battle. But for example, if you like your specialized commanders, you may want to avoid the Chosen getting Detonate (Tier 3 Confidence break) since that specifically counters them. You may want them to get Slaughter instead (Tier 3 Morality break), which counters thralls. Tier 3 breaks are unique in that they're based on Trauma, so whichever one reaches a milestone (100M, 1G etc) is broken first and the next one becomes more expensive.

It should also be noted though, those breaks are needed (along with enough unresolved trauma) to earn higher tiers of EE after each fight. Again, you only need this for 1 vulnerability, so getting more than 1 tier 3 break may or may not be desirable for you, which is why trauma management is important. There is an ability that allows you to flee a battle, basically for this purpose.

The way I see it if you have a girl thats weak to INJ to start you can get way more upgrade points and have more turns by the time the 2nd girl showed up. Bear with me its been a week or so since I played it. Other weaknesses arent that much worse than INJ so not a huge loss. But you could get a bad roll with 1st girl that has high resistances across the board and I believe EXPO as main weakness didnt give much points. Maybe it doesnt actually matter but it does feel worse from a player perspective to have the starting girl give less points because once more girls are around they clean up faster and then you have less turns.

FYI, no one has high resistances in every vulnerability, the 3 Chosen have mutually-exclusive vulnerabilities (though some may start out pre-broken to t1). So my first 11 days are just using Attack, Slime, Shame or Threaten on the appropriate Chosen, I don't even bother with Surrounds yet. Just getting them to generate 1 EE after each battle is perfectly fine, that's enough to get you a basic commander plus some basic upgrades by day 12 or so.

 

[CSdev]

Ah, gotcha. I'm curious though how the game assigns the personalities exactly: If I tell it that Meguca Ducky Silver is the most Confident one of the bunch, how does it decide between Meguca Chicken Gold or Meguca Sparrow Bronze to make the ones with no self-esteem?

I ask because it might still be possible to make close simulcrums of other setting's groups with a bit more understanding of how Char Gen works under the hood - I actually managed to make it decently close with my Puella Magi trio, though Mami is a bit haughty and Homura's way too expressive.

The algorithm assigns each of the Chosen a score for each vulnerability, but it also assigns a "certainty" to each one based on how many questions related to that vulnerability you answered for that Chosen. If two Chosen seem to have the same score for the same vulnerability (or if there's some other invalid combination, like one Chosen having three vulnerabilities of the same level), then the least certain vulnerabilities are the ones that the algorithm is most willing to shuffle around. So, if you haven't answered any confidence-related questions for Gold or Bronze (or if you've answered their questions similarly), then it picks based on who already has a well-defined minor vulnerability and who still needs one.

I tried to make it detect and respect the player's intentions as well as possible, but the need to conform to the current legal vulnerability arrangements is still pretty restrictive. Furthermore, a lot of the early writing was done before I was completely certain how each vulnerability should be represented personality-wise. I'm glad that you managed to get something decently close, but it definitely needs a lot more work before I'll be happy with its flexibility.

Yeah, PLEA is something I rarely want to increase unless I'm going for an Innocence break, and even then INJU and HATE go first. As for specialized commanders, Suppressors on their own are very rarely worth using and the ones I've used the most by far are Spite and Hunger + Anger. Anything with PLEA on it has turned out miserably in my experience, except on those monsters I put together for the final fight.

Now that the game is playable form start to finish, I can say with certainty that PLEA isn't working as I had hoped. Originally, it was meant to fit a few purposes over the course of the game.

(1) In the early game, PLEA should be necessary to get long surrounds.
(2) In the middle game, PLEA should be necessary to induce sinful downtime.
(3) In the late game, PLEA should be necessary to hit tier-3 break trauma thresholds.
(4) In the final battle, PLEA should be a major factor in dealing resolve damage to not-completely-broken teams.

The problem is that with the x2 trauma per level from HATE, the x2 trauma per level from EXPO, and the x2 to each trauma per level from the associated circumstance, the x3 trauma per level from PLEA isn't ever really required, except maybe in the very early game or during the last surround of a battle. You're usually getting more trauma than you need or even want. Fixing this will probably require changing some of the multipliers, but I'm not completely certain how yet. I think the most important thing is that setting up a "somebody is always surrounded or captured" snowball situation probably shouldn't be possible without some PLEA - and the fact that you have to devote some resources to PLEA instead of INJU or EXPO should make it so that those snowballs aren't so immediately overwhelming.

 

[Karnewarrior]

Hmm. Maybe make PLEA effect the other girls in some way, similar to EXPO? Or just divide the responsibility for doing that between PLEA and EXPO. Like Humiliation is boosted by the other girls' EXPO but Pain is boosted by the other girls' PLEA - justified in that the humiliation boost comes from it being harder to deny that she would end up the way her teammate did, while the pain is boosted because she can hear her friend getting off and it's making her more aware of how much she's not.

Alternatively, PLEA could just play into some new system like a traits system that would otherwise cap or slow down Trauma gain in a certain stat and also put the more sinful downtimes behind trait walls. You have to mix and match the other circumstances with pleasure or just blow her mind with it to get the traits.

 

[Arachnofiend]

I think it might work if pleasure reduced the circumstance penalty from trauma, in addition to its current effects. It's thematic since pleasure should make the chosen more receptive to other acts, and would mitigate the current issue pleasure has with harsh diminishing returns.

I also think disgust needs to be changed somehow, right now it's just worse than pain for chaining surrounds and no reasonable changes to pleasure or injury will change that. I don't have as clear of a suggestion for how to fix that, unfortunately.

 

[vanquishedValiant]

I think it might work if pleasure reduced the circumstance penalty from trauma, in addition to its current effects. It's thematic since pleasure should make the chosen more receptive to other acts, and would mitigate the current issue pleasure has with harsh diminishing returns.

Seconding the Pleasure reduced Trauma penalties. Given that this is a game all about hard math and compounding multipliers, I've espoused before about how the fact that Injury is the only Circumstances that actually builds on itself positively is the reason why it's so utterly essential.

Hate is often included in these discussion as a useful too; but because Hate doesn't compound positively on it's own, it's only able to reach its probably potential when Injury is already in the picture. Similar with Expo; Bouncing Expo back and forth on its own between two chosen doesn't do a whole lot because its trauma strangles it so much.

In the scenario where Pleasure could soften Trauma's penalties to Circumstance, you could shift the number from Hate (or Expo) to the point where it builds on itself; and thus also adds positively to Pleasure too and support its growth. This makes fantastic sense because Hate and Pleasure combined lead to Inseminate; and provides the described situation in the narrative where the chosen are starting to enjoy it despite themselves and not resisting as much.

Injury would still remain one of the fastest ways to rapidly compound, but you'd want Pleasure in order to keep that ball rolling as well, and you'd be able to build at a slower rate with the other 3 stats for a no violence run. I think something to help with this overall numbers shift may be to reduce the dominance of Injury to compensate; if Pleasure provides a method to make Chosen more receptive and Trauma less hurtful, Injury doesn't need to leap out ahead on its own so much.

Without having run the numbers, it could be brought more in line to x3 / x2 instead of x4 x2 to narrow the extreme divide, since X4 x2 is actually functionally something like 4x the strength the effect of the x2 x4 from Hate.

Ultimately it just kind of stems from that weird balance between Trauma being both necessary for captures and also detrimental to the real circumstances you want to do, which is an awkward double duty to pull.

I also think disgust needs to be changed somehow, right now it's just worse than pain for chaining surrounds and no reasonable changes to pleasure or injury will change that. I don't have as clear of a suggestion for how to fix that, unfortunately.

Disgust is definitely unintuitive and finnicky, absolutely. The halving mechanic is perhaps a little too extreme in some middle cases, and helps contribute to Disgust / Pleasure being very poor; it has less returns on actual capture chance / time than even Injury does, despite Pleasure ostensibly being meant to set that up.

I almost wonder if rather than half, if the idea is to cap it it should be able to go up to the full defense level but no higher. Then you could at least create short openings by making the girls retch; but to keep them down, they need to be hurt, scared, or ashamed.

All in all the root of this Pleasure being undesirable problem is the heart of the game's struggle right now, since it's really sitting right in the middle of both making the game difficulty to learn as a game, and also obtuse / unapproachable as erotica.

 

[Buldozer]

The game is inadequately difficult, you need to spend EE on creating a commander, then you need to spend EE on his upgrades, after that you still need to spend EE on equipping these upgrades. Where to get so much EE? Because in one fight I can only collect a maximum of three. Evac and extermination upgrades literally do nothing, +20 buff per upgrade is too weak. Each battle ends in five turns, maximum 6-7, you literally don't have time to stack all these multipliers from circumstance damage.

P.S. First tip about "randomized elements in the game" is complete lies.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

The game is inadequately difficult, you need to spend EE on creating a commander, then you need to spend EE on his upgrades, after that you still need to spend EE on equipping these upgrades. Where to get so much EE? Because in one fight I can only collect a maximum of three.

You don't do it in one fight. I spend 11 days at the start of the game farming EE (which is mindless and only takes a few minutes). Then I use my first commander on day 11/12, it immediately starts paying for itself and from there on out it's an avalanche that basically ends the game by day 25-30.

Evac and extermination upgrades literally do nothing, +20 buff per upgrade is too weak. Each battle ends in five turns, maximum 6-7, you literally don't have time to stack all these multipliers from circumstance damage

Not true at all. You get more time to surround/capture Chosen, which can be chained for dozens of turns. Two things to remember:

1. A battle does not end as long as a Chosen is captured/surrounded.
2. Chosen that are captured/surrounded after extermination completion will fly off and become untouchable.

So while on a successful match of 40+ rounds the evac and extermination won't comprise all that much of it, the extra turns give you more time to set up and start those long captures/surrounds.

P.S. First tip about "randomized elements in the game" is complete lies.

Try savescumming and doing the exact same actions in the same combat. It'll play out exactly the same, down to the last digit.

 

[MSGTNP]

I gotta say, while I do like this game, I feel a bit disappointed by it. I don't really feel like I get actually get to partake in the actual assaults. If anything, I feel like a spectator giving orders. I still see this game as a great foundation but I think it could be improved a bit.

Customization needs to be improved. I feel like you should be able to customize the girls like their build, height, hair color, length etc, besides just for their costume and weapon

I feel like the Commander should play out more like a player character from lilith's throne where as once your summoned, you should be able to do what you want to do directly for whatever turns you have. Of course your commander's actions would be limited to what you had chosen prior to the assault. I suppose this could be like a "Avatar", like an upgrade from a Commander.

I feel like you should actually be able to capture one or all of them and drag them back to the hive if you get them weak enough. Now depending in their state and other things, they may be to break out or choose to stay.

If you want, you should be able to have as low as only one chosen to potentially, as many as you want with some restrictions on how many can fight your horde at once. For either challenge or just to mess around.

I feel like the 50 day limit could be replaced with a loop mode where simply new chosen teams show up and you continue where you left off with the chosen you corrupted join you as Commanders of sorts.

 

[Buldozer]

I spend 11 days at the start of the game farming EE (which is mindless and only takes a few minutes).

Is that good? 11 days are spent on MINDLESS farm. And that was supposed to be turn based strategy/management game?

You get more time to surround/capture Chosen, which can be chained for dozens of turns.

You can surround the champion for the first time for a maximum of two turn, this is not enough to stack enough multipliers to surround this champion again or to surround another one. The best result you usually get is to surround each of the champions for 2 turns.

the extra turns give you more time to set up and start those long captures/surrounds.

No, bonus turns at the beginning of the battle literally do nothing, maximum trauma damage that you can inflict in one turn is ~110 which is not enough to reach the second level opening, unless you focus only one trauma damage type on only one champion.

To surround champions you need to break through their defense level -> to break through their defense level you need to deal enough trauma damage -> to deal enough trauma damage you need to stack enough multipliers -> to stack enough multipliers you need to deal enough circumstance damage -> to deal enough circumstance damage you need to surround champions long enough... Aaaand the circle is complete, the vicious circle.