Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 70b] [CSDev]

[Trarr the undead old man]

Managed to actually beat the first loop, by the way, what's this "influence" thingy for?

 

[fenyx]

Managed to actually beat the first loop, by the way, what's this "influence" thingy for?

Items that gives you bonus, like the starting item
they are offered when selecting city

 

[aumhs]

to be more specific, every second city (on odd numbers).

 

[Trarr the undead old man]

I have to admit, having Forsaken as commanders is far more entertaining than the plain demons, at least in terms of flavor text, I am garbage at this game's mechanics and am mostly taking chances with luck and save scumming.

 

[fenyx]

I have to admit, having Forsaken as commanders is far more entertaining than the plain demons, at least in terms of flavor text, I am garbage at this game's mechanics and am mostly taking chances with luck and save scumming.

I started like that, but the mechanic at the end is pretty simple: the more different types of damage and levels and the more balanced those damages are , the better . it is more powerful to have 100,100,100 and 100 in each category than have 1000 in just one

 

[Trarr the undead old man]

I started like that, but the mechanic at the end is pretty simple: the more different types of damage and levels and the more balanced those damages are , the better . it is more powerful to have 100,100,100 and 100 in each category than have 1000 in just one

Do you have specific strategies to achieve total break in anything other than the Drain thingy?

I'm tired of getting my commanders blown up...

 

[deviantartaaa]

I started loop 7 with reign
decided to focus on negotiation with the other 2 chosen
I think I may have screwed up
I don't know if I can get reign to 1g angst given the way she can take 1/10 damage

 

[Shasou]

Found a bug during custom sex scenes, here's the step-by-step on how to trigger it, screenshot and the save file for debugging:

To trigger the freeze, load the save, choose to meet a forsaken, pick Bridget, choose to meet them alone in your already created body and choose private chambers. Proceed to strip their clothes one piece at a time. Your screen will freeze during one of the stripping interactions.

 

[aumhs]

I started loop 7 with reign
decided to focus on negotiation with the other 2 chosen
I think I may have screwed up
I don't know if I can get reign to 1g angst given the way she can take 1/10 damage

Are you still on loop 7? I don't think you're supposed to finish distorting her within 1 encounter, you'd distort her at the 2nd encounter (loop 14) at earliest, or maybe even 3rd encounter (loop 21)

EDIT: Oh, sorry, I misunderstood your problem. You can't distort the others because Reign needs angst for their distortion. I didn't think about that.
Aversion might have the same problem, making it difficult to get a 10-turn orgy against her, but that one could maybe be solved by using the orgy defiler from an aversion forsaken.

 

[fenyx]

Do you have specific strategies to achieve total break in anything other than the Drain thingy?

I'm tired of getting my commanders blown up...

the fastest way to achieve total break is to keep getting the chosen into orgies because when they use the moves, they will give you a higher percentage.
Unfortunatelly blowing up is the only way to increase drain

 

[Nightclaw]

The Reign fight certainly feels different, especially the first one with so many tempting easy breaks that I feel you have to avoid. I'm currently just playing about with it to test various interactions and what is possible early as I have time to kill while I decide what distortion to go with for this run.

From my testing, I could see Rampancy and Despair distortions being doable on the first encounter, and MAYBE Temptation. Negotiations may also be doable by the same logic as Temptation but could be a bit of a grind. Triggering Propaganda herself doesn't work as the 1G damage is applied to Reign before she resets her trauma to 0. Aversion might be possible with a different forsaken roster/item pool but definitely not doable with mine so I can't test that.

The 'trauma wipe' does in fact clear pending T3 triggers, which was quite expected but getting Megalomaniac is still theoretically possible from what I have tested.

Having said all that, the easier and likely better path is to set up the distortion on first encounter and then hit distortion on encounter 2.

As you've already found out, I think you're best off sorting out the other 2 chosen before worrying about Reign's breaks at all. She's incredibly weak before that and can't even clear her trauma being limited to +1 actions. Actually, I've never specifically avoided T1 breaks before but she seems limited to +1 actions even with T2 and T3 broken which is handy for keeping trauma.

My run has a Superior and Undead team (with the undead annoyingly being the Sig/Sig/Min/Min chosen so that killed some early EE gains) I went a bit lazy and tempted the Superior for the 100 EE but I'm not sure I'll keep Aversion on the Undead as the final fight could be annoying to set up an orgy after getting 3 breaks on Reign. It's doable with 2 breaks pretty easily with a tempt undead forsaken after breaking T2+T3 PLEA.

 

[SuperSkippy]

This is the Angel move that stands the greatest chance of being completely reworked in the next balance pass. There's probably a better way of using the idea of "resolve an ally's damage" which wouldn't be as finicky.

Yeah, the fact that this one only comes in with Orgy levels of trauma, and is only used when a Surround naturally ends, makes it pretty difficult to trigger. It's especially difficult to trigger in fights with 2x Angels--you don't have a real way to prioritize which one does the move to my knowledge and that can be very important in some situations. A thought I had that might be interesting is if it affected Circumstances rather than Trauma, or affected both but with a lower threshold.

This was tricky to track down. What was happening is that the Castigation message only displayed when the Devil and the partner were using actions which generated the exact same amount of Evil Energy, even when it was indeed the Castigation ability that was stopping the partner from doing a more sinful action. This is fixed in R60 so that the player can see what's actually happening.

Thank you for the feedback! It's funny that you suggest Judgment taking away your Forsaken for awhile to punish them, since that was actually part of my original draft for her! But overall, I think it's expected that you'd find Judgment easier than Victory - your own playstyle puts a big emphasis on making your Forsaken stronger in the long term even when it's more difficult in the short term. Players who don't make as much use of Punisher buffs won't gain as much strength between the Victory fight and the Judgment one.

That said, some of the later "ascension" modifiers will probably focus on making the lategame harder (and even adding whole new abilities) so that making good use of your Forsaken is actually required.

Thank you for the feedback here as well! It's interesting to think that Love's T3 redemption is probably more of an issue the lower your Punisher achievements are. Loop 25 is pretty much as late as you can reasonably fight her (Loop 30 will be the latest, but it will require facing Reason first, which will probably be pretty rare), so it might be more of a factor on most playthroughs. I might also just need to change how the difficulty modifier scaling works in later loops, since that's been on the table for awhile.

Another thing I'm curious about: What do you think about the difficulty of 1 Devil + 2 Angels versus 2 Devils + 1 Angel? Which one is more synergistic?

Glad to help with the bugfixing.

As for my playstyle--well, nothing grows faster than an exponential function. Since that's currently baked into the difficulty per loop, I make the most out of each increase in power I get because nothing I have access to grows exponentially from loop to loop.

As for your question, I definitely have to think much harder about what to do when there are two Devils.

• Two Devils permanently cut off +50 EE Downtimes from the Angel.
• One Angel is enough to consistently pull both Devils below +50EE downtimes, meaning I have to keep pumping EE into recreating Orgies (if the goal is Despair, this is an especially difficult "spend money to make money" situation)
• The doubled Castigation means I may not be able to reliably clear Trauma from the Angel through Distortion-related Downtimes. Whether or not I can use this depends on what starting Vuln Breaks the Devils have.
• Just on a basic level, two Angels are designed in such a way that they don't overlap each other (one Angel will always do nothing for the other one), but Devils reinforce each other (doubled Castigation and their damage resistance each strengthens the other one).

Do you have specific strategies to achieve total break in anything other than the Drain thingy?

I'm tired of getting my commanders blown up...

Posted this advice for quickly raising Punisher Effectiveness a while ago:

At your stage in the game, I go for two basic Commander types:
Type 1: Maximal INJU: INJU Punisher, 4 extra duration, all 5 captures. No flight. Cost 44EE. This one's for raising Self-Destruct. It uses all 3 captures against the same Chosen in the following way to grow Self-Destruct as quickly as possible:
T1: Ambush the Chosen we're raising INJU Punisher Effectiveness on
Barrier until a second Chosen comes in or the first one self-destructs
When the first one self-destructs, do a normal surround and hit the other 3 circumstances
When a second Chosen comes in, standard attack, hit Grind/Humiliate with the two surround actions you get. Recapture the first, she booms again in 2 turns. When she's free again, use the third and final capture. Total will generally be 90+150+180 or 120 + 180 + 210 so it doesn't take long to build up to 1000%. You get much more progress focusing on one Chosen than trying to hit all 3 here.

Type 2: Maximal HATE/PLEA/EXPO: no punisher/suppressor/defiler, 6 turns, all 5 captures, Flight. Cost 54EE. Orgy as quickly as possible, even a short one. Once Extermination finishes, you're trying to draw the battle out as long as possible, surrounding one at a time and letting the others do all of their special moves, then using two of your Captures against the flying Chosen. Since it doesn't have special equipment, it doesn't cause Self-Destruct to activate.

Since HATE/PLEA/EXPO requires them being free, and INJU requires them being captured, it makes some sense that you'd raise them two different ways.

 

[Nightclaw]

Okay, securing Temptation is achievable in encounter 1 with Reign, as is triggering an orgy afterwards via a bit of chain triggering Fantasize. I could theoretically break T1 PLEA for the 5th break (distortion also counts as a break) but then I doubt I'd be able to trigger an orgy in the final battle to secure the aversion undead forsaken. Plus I need to leave some breaks for later encounters.

Having Silver Collar or any levels of the animalistic achievement would negate that worry completely though, since you only need to get to 100 to trigger fantasize.

I figured I might as well check, and defeating Reign via Temptation is really easy in the final battle as she'll keep doing Fantasize without recovering until she has enough to be properly tempted. I'm guessing that's not designed to happen yet though since the game does freeze/bug-out after the battle ends.

Also, it makes sense that Reign is only worth 1 point for achievement purposes, since her species is human, but it does feel a bit sad.

 

[deviantartaaa]

I have reign + normal + animal chosen
Reign + animal chosen together take so little damage
I am seriously thinking about restarting
Focusing on the other 2 chosen
And then trying to force an orgy before getting any break on reign to get the trauma needed to push the other 2 forward
Cause otherwise It's really hard to stack the multipliers

 

[aumhs]

Does Reign have any protection against breaking her T3 vulnerability before breaking the T1 and T2 vulnerabilities? You can do them out of order for normal chosen.
If no, then going for Megalomania in the first encounter on loop 7 should be relatively easy.

 

[Nightclaw]

Does Reign have any protection against breaking her T3 vulnerability before breaking the T1 and T2 vulnerabilities? You can do them out of order for normal chosen.
If no, then going for Megalomania in the first encounter on loop 7 should be relatively easy.

There's nothing specifically against it, other than the difficulty of getting her into multiple orgys to get enough trauma to unlock both T3s, as she resets and increases her resistance between them. My order of breaks was T2 PLEA, T3 PLEA, T2 EXPO, Temptation distortion for example.

Based on the teaser notes last month, the story, her stats screen and the fact there doesn't seem to be any extra dialogue when she becomes a forsaken, I'm guessing that's not the intention though.

Unlocking her distortion bonus is obviously useful though, since those are quite helpful.

 

[Nightclaw]

After a bit more testing, it seems that defeating Reign in Loop 7 completely breaks Splendor as a forsaken. Either that or it's a bug related to this version. If you have Reign as a forsaken it does flip one of Splendor's debuffs upon defeat.

I've added a save file with a few related saves, although I suspect it's just the way it is because you're really not supposed to defeat Reign in Loop 7:

- There's the Loop 11 city choice which is only an Undead or an Animalistic (no devil)
- There's the save directly after defeating Splendor to show that she has forgotten she's the Undead Leader.
- The 2 different END saves represent the final fight with either Splendor set for Megalomaniac or just nothing/Despair. Clearing either of those will show Splendor in her proper form before the game forgets. It's typically fine until you save/load a file or pass some time/days/something?
- The last save is just to show the point before I got lazy and just cheated to skip to the end battle rather than waiting until I had enough EE to initiate it. I normally would skip the day ahead some to not get free training days but neither of the forsaken from this loop are sticking around.

As an aside, since I'm second guessing my memory with the above being an issue and cannot remember past runs: Does the Loop 10 fight with Splendor or Victory not have city difficulty mods or is that also a bug/update with this patch here? I have a save where I didn't defeat Reign and it also doesn't have mods on Loop 10 choices.

 

[Nightclaw]

After running through the other save where I didn't defeat Reign, it seems my campaign appears to be bugged or it's a bug with this version in general, since Splendor still becomes a normal undead forsaken there as well.

I did do one thing this run that I haven't done before, which was create a chosen with restrictions off to make a setup Forsaken. I sacrificed it after I made my main forsaken and didn't actually need the restrictions off so I could run through the campaign again with a normal chosen instead if that is the issue.

Either way, has anyone else had a similar issue with Spendor/the campaign this version?

 

[Omicronzeta]

I have run into a game freezing bug I am not sure how to replicate, it happens late in a battle, but not every time. It seems to trigger from inspecting Claw, but I haven't figured out any other condition then that...

running game version R60b, save was started on R60

 

[Shasou]

As of 60c, the same problem persists:

Found a bug during custom sex scenes, here's the step-by-step on how to trigger it, screenshot and the save file for debugging:

To trigger the freeze, load the save, choose to meet a forsaken, pick Bridget, choose to meet them alone in your already created body and choose private chambers. Proceed to strip their clothes one piece at a time. Your screen will freeze during one of the stripping interactions.

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