Mandoto

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Mar 23, 2021
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That is dumb. The characters constantly get new content. A character I might not want to interact with now I might want to interact with in the future. Maybe I misclicked. There's a billion options.

There is no possible excuse for putting it all down to one flag. Especially since storywise there is no reason for it either. I mean, she is still in the inn lol. It's not like she goes away after you say no. This isn't a big story choice, it's just a random npc.
While I do appreciate when the writers give you the option to completely remove any trace of their character from your game, I do agree that it would be stupid if the flag doesn't get switched when her new route is released, especially since it's going to be the polar opposite of the original.
 
Jul 26, 2019
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Has anybody read the item description for the Field Clothes?

"Comfortable clothes, allowing for freedom of movement and the skin to breathe under the heat of exertion and daylight. Mother was always annoyed by your habit of sleeping in the same clothes you'd wear out to the fields the next day, but it always made sense.

Nothing fancy in the least — linens and wool — but simple as they are, the clothes are respectable, and more importantly, bring you joy. There is something to be said for simple beauty by virtue of utility, and the hardy, tear-resistant, fading-resistant fabric is a mark of that. If Mother can't see the value you do, that's her problem."


I don't know what NPC the item is for, but this is an inner monologue, not an item description.
Whats interesting to me is that the writer (i'm confident its Tobs) seemed that much more interested in writing a story about this item than anything else, so it ends up just being unecessarily filled with unneeded and unwarranted information. Because in my opinion good character development depends on how characters react to different situations overtime and what that tells us. What this is telling us is that the Mother doesn't like a set of clothes, wow 10/10 amazing character development for something we dont care about and that isnt even remotely important to the game.

I mean i get its an anecdote but c'mon that many adjectives to describe one specific attribute is insane, we dont need to know that the fabric of a t-shirt is "hardy, tear-resistant, fading-resistant", since the first adjective "hardy" already tells you all you need to know, it's resistant to difficult situations so do we really need to know more? At this point its like the writer took to google to find out synonyms for "hardy" to try and make his writing seem more professional, not to mention it sounds like someone is just trying to reach a quota on how many descriptive adjectives to use.
 
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M0nte

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Oct 4, 2020
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While I understand your complaints somewhat, that is still an item description. An optional text that you can read. Tied to a larger chunk of content that Tobs wrote. I feel like you should not get that worked on about it.

Now, from the way it reads, I assume it is Inari Kinu. And it is just there to show her inner thoughts about spefic object. Now I do have to admit, it does feel tacked on to some extent. All the things that this text is informing us about are all things we know if we have spoken to her. Even her inner monologue does not shine some new light on her relationship with her mother. Only thing that is new is that she sleeps in her clothes that she goes to work every day. Which is fitting for her. But yeah, that "hardy, tear-resistant, fading-resistant" just seems like poor use of gradation on Tobses end.

But at same time, does it really need to be anything more? The whole point of that describtion is to put you in her shoes. It does not really need to reveal something new. While it would be apreaciated if it showed something more, it does it job as relativly "short" description.
 
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Jul 26, 2019
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While I understand your complaints somewhat, that is still an item description. An optional text that you can read. Tied to a larger chunk of content that Tobs wrote. I feel like you should not get that worked on about it.
yeah i know i probably sound pretentious, but it's mostly because i am really passionate about writing in video games and what they mean to the player, so i do tend to blow things out of proportion even if its funny trivia or whatever. But especially when the writer is a little bitch who for some reason always stays on top of his little soapbox when it comes to his OC's and why he wrote them the way they are.

But at same time, does it really need to be anything more? The whole point of that describtion is to put you in her shoes. It does not really need to reveal something new, it just needs to show her own perspective on things. While it would be apreaciated if it showed something more, it does it job as relativly "short" description.
I think that really depends on your interpretation of character immersion. In my opinion, i think we are sufficiently immersed in the character that we generally know her do's and dont's, her likes and her not likes so maybe i'd be ok to just leave the added trivia in bed, give it a goodnight kiss and not really mention it, or add it to the talk option for what is assumed to be Kinu.
 

M0nte

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Oct 4, 2020
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What? No, it doesn't. It's an unnecessarily long, overly-detailed monologue that tells us more about what people think of the item than the item itself. It completely fails at what it's supposed to do.
I think that a lot of items actually have about same amount of descriptions as this one.
As for the monologue telling you more about what Kinu thinks about is then describing how it actually looks. I think it works in this case since well, it is what she wears constantly. She really does not need to describe it to herself in such detail. Because she knows how it looks like and it is something she always wear. To her what it is is much less important than what it means to her.


I think that really depends on your interpretation of character immersion. In my opinion, i think we are sufficiently immersed in the character that we generally know her do's and dont's, her likes and her not likes so maybe i'd be ok to just leave the added trivia in bed, give it a goodnight kiss and not really mention it, or add it to the talk option for what is assumed to be Kinu.
While in books and in other visual media it could be argued that such information can be seen as pointless. Especially if it does not advance the plot or contribute meaninfully to any future development. Games are there own different beasts. Since they have interactive elements, authors can include a lot of different tidbits and description that are not really story important. That are not really out of the reach, but player still needs to go to look for them. In this case, think of it us Point and Click protagonist commenting on various things that player interacts with.
Still,as I said,I get your annoyance. It does seem pretentious since it is unlike any other item description that game has. But at same time, as I said, I think it works for what it is.
 

destroyerofassholes

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Oct 23, 2019
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I think that a lot of items actually have about same amount of descriptions as this one.
As for the monologue telling you more about what Kinu thinks about is then describing how it actually looks. I think it works in this case since well, it is what she wears constantly. She really does not need to describe it to herself in such detail. Because she knows how it looks like and it is something she always wear. To her what it is is much less important than what it means to her.



While in books and in other visual media it could be argued that such information can be seen as pointless. Especially if it does not advance the plot or contribute meaninfully to any future development. Games are there own different beasts. Since they have interactive elements, authors can include a lot of different tidbits and description that are not really story important. That are not really out of the reach, but player still needs to go to look for them. In this case, think of it us Point and Click protagonist commenting on various things that player interacts with.
Still,as I said,I get your annoyance. It does seem pretentious since it is unlike any other item description that game has. But at same time, as I said, I think it works for what it is.
I think, and I mean no offense here, that you're trying too hard to play devil's advocate man. No matter what take you have that's just bad prose. Even if you dig the whole lore aspect of an item description, it's just badly written, and it's not really a hill to die on.

It's overdone, gaudy, pretentious purple prose. Tobs needs some Hemingway teachings. There's a ton of places to discuss Kinu's strained relationship with her mother, and the game really doesn't need it in the items too. Especially when it contrasts the game's idea for item descriptions, none other is like this.

If I want to read an item description, in the context of this game I want to see what it does, maybe what it's made out of, and maybe a bit of worldbuilding, and that's a big maybe.

I don't want to read a lengthy sermon about Kinu's need for therapy.
 
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destroyerofassholes

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Oct 23, 2019
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yeah i know i probably sound pretentious, but it's mostly because i am really passionate about writing in video games and what they mean to the player, so i do tend to blow things out of proportion even if its funny trivia or whatever. But especially when the writer is a little bitch who for some reason always stays on top of his little soapbox when it comes to his OC's and why he wrote them the way they are.



I think that really depends on your interpretation of character immersion. In my opinion, i think we are sufficiently immersed in the character that we generally know her do's and dont's, her likes and her not likes so maybe i'd be ok to just leave the added trivia in bed, give it a goodnight kiss and not really mention it, or add it to the talk option for what is assumed to be Kinu.
We are all pretentious for arguing about writing quality in a mediocre porn game.

But what's even more pretentious is the thing you criticize, so I'd say it's valid.
 
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M0nte

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Oct 4, 2020
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I just enjoy writing to people so I do not mind playing devils advocate. Even if this is something I actually belive in.
While in the end of the day, the act of criticizing and defending Tobses writing on the site that he himself does not visits in itself is pointless. But it is enjoyable for me. And for you I assume up to certain point. If not, than I do not see no reason to continue to look for things to complain about. Since no one from dev team will read it.
 
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Mandoto

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Mar 23, 2021
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I just enjoy writing to people so I do not mind playing devils advocate. Even if this is something I actually belive in.
While in the end of the day, the act of criticizing and defending Tobses writing on the site that he himself does not visits in itself is pointless. But it is enjoyable for me. And for you I assume up to certain point. If not, than I do not see no reason to continue to look for things to complain about. Since no one from dev team will read it.
People like complaining, even if it doesn't change anything, and that's perfectly fine. We put our complaints here because we'd most likely be banned, hate mobbed, or both if we put them on the Fenoxo forums, even if we toned down our complaints to constructive criticism.
 

M0nte

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Oct 4, 2020
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People like complaining, even if it doesn't change anything, and that's perfectly fine. We put our complaints here because we'd most likely be banned, hate mobbed, or both if we put them on the Fenoxo forums, even if we toned down our complaints to constructive criticism.
Yeah, as long as you find it enjoyable, go for it. I also find it enjoyable to play devils advocate, as some people put it. To have conversations, even if it is on something I personally disagree with person that I am responding to.
 
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Mandoto

Member
Mar 23, 2021
259
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Yeah, as long as you find it enjoyable, go for it. I also find it enjoyable to play devils advocate, as some people like to say. And to have conversations, even if it something I personally disagree with.
I wouldn't say I enjoy complaining, sure it can be fun to start or participate in a circle jerk shitting on Tobs or Savin or whoever, but at the end of the day I personally complain as a way to vent frustration about the game.
 

James3

Member
Dec 12, 2018
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That is dumb. The characters constantly get new content. A character I might not want to interact with now I might want to interact with in the future. Maybe I misclicked. There's a billion options.

There is no possible excuse for putting it all down to one flag. Especially since storywise there is no reason for it either. I mean, she is still in the inn lol. It's not like she goes away after you say no. This isn't a big story choice, it's just a random npc.
But then how would they punish you for not being into what they are? If you wondered why I do things that people call "fetish shaming", shit like this is why.
 
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Zohan4201

Member
Jun 25, 2017
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Hey guys, does anyone know if the author said anything regarding allowing the players to lewd the adult Kinu? Just curious considering how things could've developed with Helia and her daughter in coc1.
 

M0nte

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Oct 4, 2020
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Hey guys, does anyone know if the author said anything regarding allowing the players to lewd the adult Kinu? Just curious considering how things could've developed with Helia and her daughter in coc1.
Not happening. Incest between child and parent is forbidden by both patreon and Savin.
 
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destroyerofassholes

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Oct 23, 2019
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Hey guys, does anyone know if the author said anything regarding allowing the players to lewd the adult Kinu? Just curious considering how things could've developed with Helia and her daughter in coc1.
Tobs hates the idea enough that he designed the entire character of Kinu to spite anyone who would want to lewd her.

I also find the idea of daughter/parent stuff really, really creepy, so I can't blame him for that, but his hostility is on another level.
 

throbzombie

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Oct 15, 2020
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Let's hope savin is willing to work with the modders for the sake of us degenerates.
Wow, you must be new to CoC2, like brand new.
Tobs hates the idea enough that he designed the entire character of Kinu to spite anyone who would want to lewd her.

I also find the idea of daughter/parent stuff really, really creepy, so I can't blame him for that, but his hostility is on another level.
You'd think that fetish game writers would be the last guys to go off on other people's fetishes, but I guess Tobs is just so much better than us lowly coomers. Whatever, that shit is confined to its own little ghetto, so I don't have to put up with it if I don't want to.
 
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