- Dec 4, 2019
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He played CoC2 and he lost it.
Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.31] [Savin/Salamander Studios]
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- Aug 8, 2020
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He discovered that penis actually have bone in a hard way?
that be this guy:
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- Feb 14, 2020
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I can't bring myself to turn my pal into a chick, ppl talking about how good brienne is just makes me so curious!
- Dec 4, 2019
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Oh thank God I'm not the only one.I can't bring myself to turn my pal into a chick, ppl talking about how good brienne is just make me so curious!
Savin isn't even a writer.
He gave permission for anyone who wants to write for his characters, so it could happen, but I doubt it.
- Dec 4, 2019
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That's pretty much a bad sign if I ever saw one.
Does anyone how to trigger maid quest? I cant really talk to bee girl and Jaelyn is not in wayfort.
Nevermind you have to finish wayfort quest and cleanse the core quest before you can get maid.
Nevermind you have to finish wayfort quest and cleanse the core quest before you can get maid.
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He's kind of like a Ferox from Eve Online...tries to do a bunch of things, not very good at any of them.
I was explaining that there is a potential explanation for a person being in a harem relationship that wasn't pathological. Of course it's theoretical, I think the chances of that relationship being pathological is high. I also think that polyamorous/open relationships have a high likelihood of being pathological. I don't know how many games have explained that kind of thing.
Has CoC2 explained polyamory in a way that hasn't hurt the story?
What do you believe is a good explanation of polyamory in CoC2?
What do you believe is human nature by default?
And polyamory isn't written for ease of use?
- NPC x NPC characters have definite characterizations, which makes it easier to write any scene.
- NPC x NPC characters have more strictly defined body, making it easier to write sex scenes.
- No longer have to worry about jealousy with NPC to NPC, or PC to NPC.
The best reason I can see for NPCs being poly is applying a fairness doctrine. The PC can do it, so NPCs should also be able to do it. I believe this is your reasoning (correct me if I'm wrong).
Just because its now fair doesn't mean its any less of a pathological relationship. Having many partners without any deep meaning because you can't dedicate the time with any one of them isn't made suddenly better because your partners are also engaging in the same pathological relationship. A harem member is being taken advantage of in an unequal relationship, but if they are able to commit themselves to a hobby, work, or some other interest outside of having sex with other people it would actually be psychologically healthier for them (assuming the replacement isn't a different vice).
Kiyoko for example probably doesn't get as much as she should from the PC, but when the PC leaves she isn't looking for the next person to have sex with. She's managing a den, being a mother and interacting with the colony. I'm not sure Brienne is that strong when it comes to external characterization. She's a fighter, she likes being fit. The first thing she checks is to make sure she's still a strong as before when she transforms. She's also scared she doesn't know how to be a mother because she grew up as a man. I haven't played any of the KM, so I may have missed something in the Serena or home scenes.
I don't disagree with the criticism that Brienne probably could have some extra added to her characterization. I don't agree with the idea that just adding her having sex with other NPCs would help that, or the story.
I'm not able to understand at this point why polyamory doesn't hurt the story as much as a harem protag would. If the goal was to show how corrupt the world already was, then yes, it would help the story and world building. But that isn't the intention, so it harms it for me.
They learned to take the easier route. This isn't necessarily bad. Writing time is limited, and focusing on figuring out around jealousy is difficult that likely takes away time from more important things.
Or alternatively, the writers who cared about depicting jealousy left.
So you agree they prefer PC on NPC focused content?
Also, I'm a bit confused on this one, since:
PC x NPC is champ/player centric. PC x NPC x NPC can be champ/player centric depending on the writing focus. Unless you are saying there PC x NPC content where the NPC is the complete focus, so isn't PC-centric? I think some of the worldbuilding talk scenes would count. I can't off hand think of any sex scenes like that though.
I don't think on average patreons prefer the PC being monogamous, they prefer NPCs being monogamous. AKA PC centric content.
Incompatible with weakly monogamous relationships (monogamy being PC-centric or NPC monogamy)
Incompatible with strict monogamy (PC monogamous as well)
- Group sex/threesomes
- PC focused (two or more characters focus on pleasing the PC)
- Balanced - character screen time is balanced
- PC has minimal involvement (approaching voyuer/cuck territory)
- Bad ends
- PC focused - target character
- PC focused - nontarget character
- Balanced - character screen time is balanced
- PC has minimal involvement
- Post-combat scenes
- PC focused - target character
- PC focused - nontarget character
- Companions, added in CoC2, who are now part of the pool of scene section has increased NPC x NPC content slots.
- Male NPC sex partners
- I didn't mention this because male NPCs aren't compatible with monogamy, I was just compiling what the trends are in general from all the various images to make it easier to analyze.
Most of the areas where people could express they want NPC x NPC content they don't take the chance. There is an inverse correlation between NPC x NPC and preference in patreons. For companions, if monogamy isn't the correlating factor, its either pregnancy, quality, or quantity. Cait has quantity, and she will eventually have pregnancy (although only as an ending paragraph/line). It just appears that the more monogamous a character is, the more likely that they just happened to have superior writing behind them.
Is there anything to suggest patreons on average prefer polyamory in the polls?
Well, Cait definitley has quantity. You think Brienne is higher quality than Cait? I'm not even sure if Kiyoko has quality. Tobs is extremely wordy, and has serious issues with how he writes the PC. He also likes to make references to baby bag. Overall, I like what Kiyoko's overall concept is, but there's so many little issues in how Tobs writes that it feels like a minefield of trying to not trigger the bad content when in the Kitsune tree. If I didn't like Kiyoko's concept though, which is largely being a den mother (preg/family/monogamy) then I probably wouldn't rate her that highly. I think Tobs does a good job on consistently characterizing her.
Brienne I think could use some additional characterization, but makes sense being #2 IMO. If she wasn't PC-centric, I'm not sure I'd give her the time of day, though.
A poll locked to the opinions of patreon supporters, is not indicative of what patreon supporters prefer?
I'm not talking about wider preference of porn games. I'm talking about the preference the people paying for this game on patreon have. I don't use 4chan polls because 1. vote manipulation is easier, and 2. I'm not talking about non-paying preferences and 3. most people who support poly would use 1 and 2 as reasons to dismiss the results. I'm talking about CoC2 because this is a CoC2 thread. Any example I use should lead back to CoC2, because that is the main topic. If I fail to do so, please let me know.
You are talking about
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?Yes, they don't write what the patreon's want, they write what they want and hope the audience will change to reflect that. There is evidence against that, or that it is a very slow process. Post-combat scenes are prevelant in TiTs, CoC1, and CoC2. They seem to be okay with these scenes, but companion post-combat scenes are the much lower than the others. Patreon's just don't like CoC2 style loss scenes (with companions). That game had been out for 3 years at the time of that poll.
Edit: Didn't reread the poll itself and fucked up a bunch, so I fixed the previous paragraph.
I think Savin, being the lead writer, editor, director, and right hand man on TiTs, as well as taking increasing role in CoC1 at the time, affected the amount of NPC x NPC content. Futa has actually been relatively absent in CoC2 depite patreons liking it. It is much more prevalent in TiTs. Fenoxo has a preference to futa (compared to Savin). Savin prefers shemale (no vagina). Fen didn't think companions would work, while Savin did. They have a policy, and admit, to writing what they want to write. Savin likes cuckold. Savin brought Tobs in to write preg content to calm down the preg crowd because Tobs likes preg, while Savin doesn't want to write it.
Honestly, I'm a bit confused on what you are saying here. If what Wsan was true, I would expect a few of those low polled options to be higher, and futa to be lower (although maybe TiTs is able to fuel/feed the futa CoC2 gap). What kind of time frame are they expecting to shift the audience expectations?
Yes, and that would be solved by making the PC monogamous. You don't solve it by having Brienne dilute her relationships as well. Brienne directing her love for the PC by instead having sex with other people doesn't solve the root of the problem that making a harem protagonist introduces. Making everyone poly doesn't solve the issues with poly relationships. To make it not pathological, you would need to magic away the need for people to have meaningful long term relationships completely. This is similar to magicking away the jealousy in harem games. With everyone poly, it helps somewhat with the whole jealousy aspect as now they don't need to feel unequally treated (although jealousy still needs to be magicked away anyways), but it now adds on that you have to believe that people are alright with transient relationships that aren't long term.
If Brienne had a lower libido, would the relationship no longer harm the plot?
People generally want monogamous relationships. I take neither poly nor harem as realistically believable.
By dividing your time with more than one person, you will never have as deep an understanding of who they are. This is an issue inherent with multiple partner relationships, whether harem, poly or open. I care about the meaning a relationship gives.
No matter the person, you wouldn't be able to accept them being in a polyamorous relationship and not taking advantage of seeking other partners. This is mainly what I was trying to understand with my example. I don't believe Brienne is the peak of logical writing.
You do realize friends without sexual relationships exist? If the only authentic meaningful relationship can be a romantic one, then the game has also failed to explain why these people must require sex with their friendships as well, because that isn't normal people behavior.
I just spent my time attempting to justify a potential character that wasn't being taken advantage of. They were purely hypothetical (whether or not a writer could keep the idea consistent), and that still didn't track for you. I think you just fundamentally dislike harems outside of what writing might do.
I can't speak for other poly games, but I've not seen the narrative justification for CoC2. The world seems all about poly sex only because it is a porn game. Most justifications just point to characters who have pathological issues that aren't treated as pathological by anyone, which makes it less believable to me.
Me bringing up Brienne on PC affection was an example of where affection might be too much. Certain people are turned off by too much affection towards the PC because they self insert as the PC. I wasn't talking about what the PC wants? It was an example to illustrate the concept of affection being potentially mismatched.
The theoretical PC I'm talking about is not constrained by the CoC2 PC. They are not required to be yandere, stalker, or inattentive, overly needy. They have the capability to give as much time and attention to more than one partner as that partner requires. This includes 24/7 if that is what the partner wants. They can do this by being in two places at once. Are they taking advantage of their partner? Should they limit their affection output to that one partner?
Poly's being used to attempt removing meta guilt isn't a push towards fixing story problems, its a push towards guilt-free sex, which is to serve the porn in the specific tone the writing staff wanted (you could instead push for a darker porn tone).
Everyone being poly doesn't have detrimental story implications? I've seen many people complain about implications that result from attempting to explain poly relationships being normal in CoC2 while the writers still maintaining the tone that everything is fine.
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The polls are surprisingly inline with me as well. I would appreciate more male homo content, but I understand that isn't what most people want.
What do you mean about adjusting levels with Brienne?
What kind of content with Clementine do you want?
Raf-Raf Konstantinus TheVegnar
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- Feb 5, 2020
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I don't know but my dumb ass forgot to check there. I eventually got it though lol
I second that, especially she not over the top sexualized. It's nice having female characters with realistic assets that don't got a slong -_-
Hopefully in the future, we can get her to move to the wayfort, preg that and lock it down. Basically any of the females I actually like in this game don't allow you to form a formal relationship with them past being fuck buddies essentially lol
I used to love the kitsune content but that shit been turned into porn for masochists who either enjoy playing as a simp or someone who shuts their mouth and does nothing. Frankly, it should be it's own game lol
Does anyone got a list on the people you can hire as maids for the wayfort? As it was just added, there's no wiki page, no one talking about it to my knowledge and the game as helpful as a wet cardboard box lol
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Okay, So either we have Savin paying a mod to delete posts with negativity against him and other writingers ( basically calling them out on their bs). or We have someone here, ( or a fan ) of theirs from the site, coming here and just reporting en masse?
I give a ton and tons of negative comments on other threads, MOSTLY BECAUSE 99.999999% of everyone lists posive and reasons they they and you should go above and beyond the call of duty to support these people, even if you don't like the content. But this is the only thread, I ever have any removed. EVER.
PS I do list positive stuff too, just not very often cause everyone has already listed like 40 times each of the positives.
I give a ton and tons of negative comments on other threads, MOSTLY BECAUSE 99.999999% of everyone lists posive and reasons they they and you should go above and beyond the call of duty to support these people, even if you don't like the content. But this is the only thread, I ever have any removed. EVER.
PS I do list positive stuff too, just not very often cause everyone has already listed like 40 times each of the positives.
- Jun 3, 2019
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I saw comments removed in a thread because there was an argument about ntr or some other fetish.
CoC2 has simply handwaved in that basically most/all of society is polyamorous, and that, for me, is fine. That's really it.
A lot of harem games don't even bother to do that. A large amount of them take place in the real world, or something close to it, with theoretically modern sensibilities, and for some reason, a variety of different girls from different backgrounds and with different personalities and belief all decide that the MC is so awesome they should all just....suck his dick a bunch.
I don't like that.
For an example of a game where I don't mind a harem aspect, just for comparison's sake, Monster Girl Dreams.
A world is established that has waaay more women than men, where fighting is actually done through sex battles, and where harems are a ingrained part of society for the monster girls in question for a decent variety of reasons. And even then, the game isn't totally a harem, because when its all done, some girls will want you to themselves, depending on their personality.
Of course it is? That was my entire point. I said ...
You said it was written that way to appeal to Savin's fetishes, I said its written this way because its easier, less muss, less fuss.
Pretty much.
What you're talking about is...outside the scope of this game, I think. I mean, again, there's that line to tread between "porn" and "story" , or even, in this case, reality and fantasy. The characterization of most characters in this game isn't that deep. Most characters are defined, for better or worse, by who they have sex with and why.
Ryn and (presumably) Kiyoko are two of the only characters that really have the development and depth that we can plumb their motivations and what makes them tick on any kind of non superficial level.
Most characters are defined almost solely by their relationships and physical attributes, and I feel like giving those relationships more depth best serves the porn and the plot.
I don't think that either.
Her single-minded devotion to the champ doesn't make her a bad character, it makes her unappealing to me personally.
Her lack of characterization is a completely different issue. She needed some more build-up into being your cow waifu, and really just needs more time in the spotlight establishing what she's about besides fucking you.
In my eyes, when it comes to the believability of poly/open relations vs harems, its simple:
It's more believable that a given group of people would all agree to the same set of rules than a given group of people would agree to a set of rules that favor a single person.
That's what it boils down to. There's a bit more nuance than that, but that's it. A relationship with that kind of power balance needs to be sold to me, and most games can't do it.
This was what I initially said. This was my point.
So, we agree, I guess.
This is the part where you're conflating two things that aren't necessarily the same thing. PC centric content does not equal monogamy.
No but.. I never suggested they did.
What I said was that I don't think the polls say much of anything. I think that you're trying to math out things that don't really add up without a lot of stretching.
Not necessarily, no.
Its an indication of a snapshot of their preferences in that moment, which is not the same thing at all. Polls are tricky.
Why is there such a high preference for futa in the fanbase? It's not an accurate reflection of the preference for the fetish in the porn community at large, futa is rather niche. The reason, of course, is obvious: Fenoxo likes futa. Fen wrote lots of futa scenes. A mostly underserved fanbase flocked to Fengames.
I'm not saying its the only factor, of course, there are plenty of them. Loss scenes are awkward and hard to access, lack choice for the player, and can make you have to redo gameplay sections. They have a lot of negatives attached to them.
But people will, quite often, simply like what their given. Fetishy fanbases feed into themselves.
Again, at some point you need to draw a line, a line that going to be different from person to person. Whether the relationships in this game are sustainable long term, in my eyes, belongs in the same realm of speculation as how the hell the nursery is going to take care of the 752 kids I've put into it so far.
Realistic might be a bad word. Maybe...feasible.
I can watch Star Wars and accept the Force existing without blinking. Not a problem.
Midi-chlorians? Tiny bacteria that control how people interface with the force? That's stupid. My (and everyone else's) suspension of disbelief ran dry right there.
Some unbelievable things I can believe. Some unbelievable things I can't.
This ones easy though: because it's a porn game, and most relationships involve sex. Maybe not all? Buuut most.
Well...yeah. I have multiple reasons for disliking harems. Inviting bad writing is just one. I even provided another reason (though in another context): I prefer my character to be the sub, and harems don't really work with that.
A theoretical PC that can clone themselves? A person that turns themselves into multiple people, thus subverting the entire problem we're talking about here?
Can't answer that, honestly. Did you see Watchmen? Remember when Dr Manhattan did exactly that thing, clone himself to give his partner more attention, and how she immediately rejected and was repulsed by the concept?
This theoretical PC could be seen as taking advantage of their partner if what their partner wants is all of the PC, no matter how much of them there is.
Again, this is what I said, I'm a bit confused as to how you got here in the first place. The initial thing I said about the nature of relationships in this specific game was that it was made this way for convenience.
Set up/expand her business, dates, find some more sheep people ( I firmly believe that races should have more than one example of them in a world), more scenes in general.
Introduce her to Azzy! Azzy loves cuddling, Clementine loves cuddling, everyone gets double/triple the cuddle!
- Apr 28, 2017
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TLDR, but if it's that or keeping her unfinished, just keep her unfinished
Enough third-wheeling in the game as it is.Not gonna respond to everything in your post, sorry, but this stuck out.
It seems that your stance in the above quote is mostly relevant to you (considering you seem pretty adamant about this stance), and not the player-base as a whole (unsure if you were trying to imply so).
If you were going from a factual basis, then yes, you'd be correct (as interactions with PC-centered NPCs puts no onus on the PC to be monogamous themselves), but it's a fantasy porn game setting -- a factual basis doesn't appear to be particularly relevant in that regard.
I'd argue that at least some (if not the majority, imo) of the player-base would quantify relationships with PC-centered NPCs as monogamous / monogamy (seeing as it's a porn game, expecting complete monogamy from the Player / PC is not a feasible criticism imo -- the NPC being monogamous to the PC is good enough for most), especially when that's intrinsic to the NPC, such as Brienne. Sure, it makes her characterization rather one-dimensional in the interim, but changing her characterization to something it wasn't initially (and wasn't hinted at initially) isn't going to make that better, it's only going to detract from what was already established.
That's largely why, at least in my opinion, some people had an issue with the way Azyrran's content has gone -- because it was initially presented in a different way to how it eventually ended up.
If reasoning is established initially to hint at something / a different possibility, then the end result can be argued to at least not be so jarring or questionable, because there was clearly some indication of such a possibility (such as Cait explicitly outlining relationships with her). Without it, it seems as though it's just done based on a whim, and thus leaves one with a lack of faith for such content moving forward (Ryn and Male PC's heir situation, Azyrran, Kiyoko's stance on the PC having no say in pretty much anything family related).
To end off, if I have to read the Codex for an explanation as to why a certain NPC is the way they are, and not find out through their actions and / or prior established lore (such as talk scenes with the NPC), then idk -- feels like I've wasted my time getting to that point with the NPC -- as the justification doesn't seem well established (imo).
Sorry, didn't intend for this post to get to this length lol.
- Jan 13, 2019
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It takes a man to be best girl. On that note which version do people prefer the current art or the old art.
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The only proper Azzy is bimbo Azzy, none of her swooping in from behind bullshit when she is stuck at home tbhTLDR, but if it's that or keeping her unfinished, just keep her unfinished
- May 25, 2020
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Both are pretty good but i prefer this version
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