Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.33] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Daken9]

Eh, most characters have multiple things going on. They might be archetypes, sure, but they are introduced and function as characters outside of sex.

Ryn is a princess/queen, your relationship with her is related to her confidence and how you can help her do that. She has ties to several other characters, a purpose, goals, a quest to hunt down her sister, etc. She feels like a fully fleshed out character.

Azzy is presented as a knight trying to defend her home. Atugia is Carmen's bodyguard, and has some kind of weird hidden history for the way she is. Even Arona is struggling with her people's lifestyle and how to lead them. Jumping outside of companions, just picking random people...Ragnild, the blacksmith in orc village, is mainly defined by how she is different and less savage than the other orcs.

The teacher in KM is...well, a teacher, and her main motivation is mainly her kids, with a bunch of scenes revolving around them and a chunk of her dialogue talking about them and her stats as such. Aileh is initially presented as wanting to observe you because of her mother's interest.


But with Wsan characters, for instance - the dryads? The main one you interact with's whole job is a "seed-bearer", she's defined completely by the fact that she has a dick, and most of her interactions immediately after you meet concern you introducing her to blowjobs. Evelyn is literally presented with her dick in someone's mouth, and you sub to her immediately after that. The centaurs in KM are prostitutes, and their quest to rehome them basically ends with them having more sex as a job. The new(ish) horse futa in KM revolves around having a harem, and you joining it. Heck, back in TiTs, Amber simply ran around the forest with a massive boner asking people to have sex with them.

Most of his characters are built completely around their fetish, and their main motivation and method of interaction is sex. If you notice, uncontrollable lust is a recurring element with his characters, he really likes that one (especially when paired with horse futas.) A lot of them are literally introduced having sex.

Mind you, this isn't a condemnation of Wsan or anything. I've said many times that him and William are probably my favorite writers. I'm just observing that he's not really good at everything, necessarily. He is really good at focusing around what he is good at, though, and what's he good at is the main goal for a lot of people playing this game, of course (really steamy sex scenes).

I just think that all the writers have their own strengths, and most of them can do some things better than Wsan.

...except maybe Bubbles. Not sure what he's good at.

It's a porn game, though. Sex is the vehicle. Even amidst the characters you listed, the only ones who aren't quite literally defined by it are the cow teacher and possibly Atugia. And half of them are introduced through sex too.

But, having said that, Wsan's characters are simple, sure, but i hardly see anything wrong with that. Frankly, i've always found simple characters as enjoyable if not more so than the average lvl 50 monsterslayer cleric prince/ss from the nowhere land, possibly because how hard it is to get them right since they give you much less to work with.

An easy premise is harder to make interesting than a complicated one, kinda thing, and in my opinion that's precisely what Wsan excels at. Just look at how Skow wrote Brienne in that one scene with Azzy, and then compare to how Wsan writes her. Again, not a supremely multi-layered character, but still one that struck a perfect balance between all the concepts that make her up, and i'd say that's true for most of his other characters too.

And on the matter of complicated, i'd also like to add that comparatively this game does that shit pretty bad. Ryn is complicated, and she's also a schizophrenic mess. All them foxes are complicated, and also unlikeable as shit (because tobs has fucked up takes that he injects into his characters, honorary mention of wolfmom). Arona isn't allowed a character arc beyond lovey-dovey stuff (which i'll take it), and Azzy fucks up even that when she wakes up one morning and decides her race is into polyamory (which, whatever, but if you're gonna force it at least write it well). Not even gonna mention the literal lvl 50 cleric princess from nowhere land, hint she's pink, 'cause that'd be unfair.

I'll take simple any day, dude.

 

[Skandranon]

Even amidst the characters you listed, the only ones who aren't quite literally defined by it are the cow teacher and possibly Atugia. And half of them are introduced through sex too.

I dont think any of the characters I mentioned are introduced through sex, though? And I don't see how Azzy or Ragnild could possibly be construed as defined by a fetish or sex. You can't even have sex with Ragnild without going through a bunch of dialogue, repeatedly, and some extra quest steps and a date.

But, having said that, Wsan's characters are simple, sure, but i hardly see anything wrong with that.

There isn't anything really wrong with it. I'm just pointing out that his writing has strengths and weaknesses, like everyone else's.

If you're not on board with the fetish of any specific character of his, there's not really much to latch on to. Of course, his fetish list is like a 99% match for mine so I don't really have that issue, but it's something that I've noticed in his writing over the years.

 

[Wrynn13]

Eh, most characters have multiple things going on. They might be archetypes, sure, but they are introduced and function as characters outside of sex.

Ryn is a princess/queen, your relationship with her is related to her confidence and how you can help her do that. She has ties to several other characters, a purpose, goals, a quest to hunt down her sister, etc. She feels like a fully fleshed out character.

Azzy is presented as a knight trying to defend her home. Atugia is Carmen's bodyguard, and has some kind of weird hidden history for the way she is. Even Arona is struggling with her people's lifestyle and how to lead them. Jumping outside of companions, just picking random people...Ragnild, the blacksmith in orc village, is mainly defined by how she is different and less savage than the other orcs.

The teacher in KM is...well, a teacher, and her main motivation is mainly her kids, with a bunch of scenes revolving around them and a chunk of her dialogue talking about them and her stats as such. Aileh is initially presented as wanting to observe you because of her mother's interest.


But with Wsan characters, for instance - the dryads? The main one you interact with's whole job is a "seed-bearer", she's defined completely by the fact that she has a dick, and most of her interactions immediately after you meet concern you introducing her to blowjobs. Evelyn is literally presented with her dick in someone's mouth, and you sub to her immediately after that. The centaurs in KM are prostitutes, and their quest to rehome them basically ends with them having more sex as a job. The new(ish) horse futa in KM revolves around having a harem, and you joining it. Heck, back in TiTs, Amber simply ran around the forest with a massive boner asking people to have sex with them.

Most of his characters are built completely around their fetish, and their main motivation and method of interaction is sex. If you notice, uncontrollable lust is a recurring element with his characters, he really likes that one (especially when paired with horse futas.) A lot of them are literally introduced having sex.

Mind you, this isn't a condemnation of Wsan or anything. I've said many times that him and William are probably my favorite writers. I'm just observing that he's not really good at everything, necessarily. He is really good at focusing around what he is good at, though, and what's he good at is the main goal for a lot of people playing this game, of course (really steamy sex scenes).

I just think that all the writers have their own strengths, and most of them can do some things better than Wsan.

...except maybe Bubbles. Not sure what he's good at.

Bubbs did write Byvernia so there's that. Now having defended Bubbles I need a bath...

 

[Daken9]

You said Wsan's characters are usually introduced through sex, so i took you meant that we can sex them at the first meeting since cases like Evelyn aren't all that prevalent. Can't remember much of anything about Ragni, but by that logic then Azzy, Atugia, Arona and Aileh are all in the same boat. It's even required to sex up the first three As to recruit them/progress their quests. Blanking on Ryn, but i think she's not far off either. So really, the cow teacher is the only one who requires us getting to know her first. And Ragni, i guess. I'd say they're the exceptions though, not the rule.

As for Azzy not being just about a fetish or sex, well then i don't see how Brienne is. She's basically Brienne-lite before her recruitment, and all about voyeurism/lesbianism after. Can ever fuck her mom and brother 5 minutes into knowing her.

And on that note, shit like this is why i can't bring myself to dislike Savin just as much as i do Tobs:



It's like the man's got two personalities vying for power in his very brain, one a Cucklord and bad lead who writes Cait and approves gobbo shit, and the other who writes Kaz, Arona and halfway ballsy content like the above. Is weird.

 

[Kroenen12]

 

[Skandranon]

You said Wsan's characters are usually introduced through sex, so i took you meant that we can sex them at the first meeting since cases like Evelyn aren't all that prevalent.

Nah, I didn't mean just sexing them at the first meeting, that's lots of characters. But "a lot", may have been an exaggeration, more like several. But I mean, literally, having/about to have/just had sex on meeting them, or immediately proposition you when you meet them. Evelyn, harem horse futa, Elthara (though she is an enemy, doesn't really count I guess), Amber (TiTs, also a few others from there).

Can't remember much of anything about Ragni, but by that logic then Azzy, Atugia, Arona and Aileh are all in the same boat. It's even required to sex up the first three As to recruit them/progress their quests. Blanking on Ryn, but i think she's not far off either. So really, the cow teacher is the only one who requires us getting to know her first. And Ragni, i guess. I'd say they're the exceptions though, not the rule.

Both Azzy and Atugia can be recruited without sex. Azzy you just duel her a few times, and Atugia, you just talk to the countess I think. I'm also almost positive Arona is recruitable without sex just by fighting her.

To elaborate, I mean Wsan's characters tend to have sex as primary motivating factor, or as a necessity. The dryads purpose in live is basically to have sex. Elthara has to have sex to function (uncontrollable libido). Vatia (snake girl, had to look up her name) doesn't even wake up without sex. The centaur caravan has to have sex for money (and only exist because the futa centaur girl got, along with her dick, an uncontrollable libido). Amber from TiTs couldn't think without sex (uncontrollable libido). The horse girl from the baths has a harem she constantly has sex with, etc.

There are lots of characters that will have sex with you after meeting them, but there's a difference. Wsan really likes writing characters that desperately need sex.

As for Azzy not being just about a fetish or sex, well then i don't see how Brienne is. She's basically Brienne-lite before her recruitment, and all about voyeurism/lesbianism after. Can ever fuck her mom and brother 5 minutes into knowing her.

Brienne all but throws herself at you even if you don't bang her, and doesn't really have any real motivations at all outside of liking you and want to hard sub for you constantly. Even her reuniting with her family is contextualized through her feelings for you - she's much less excited about seeing them than about you banging them. Even if you don't seek her out to have sex with her, once you've banged her once she has a repeatedly recurring sex scene when you step into the inn every few weeks when she isn't pregnant.

Azzy is introduced with a specific motivation and quest outside of you, and doesn't even volunteer to go with you - she hangs out in the hive until you recruit her. She likes you, but her character doesn't hang on yours like Brienne's does.

Also, I can't see how Azzy is at "all about voyeurism/lesbianism". As far as I know, there a single, randomly activated sex scene concerning it, and maybe one talk? And it can be entirely deactivated.

Bubbs did write Byvernia so there's that. Now having defended Bubbles I need a bath...

I don't think a bath is gonna work for that, you might need Jesus in your life.

 

[fetishgirl]

Kitsune stuff is actually extremely popular. Kiyoko, on every poll that's popped up, is either second of tied for first with Brienne (and I believe there was one where she slightly passed her). Kinu is also praised a lot. There are a lot of people that love what Tobs' does. It's telling that after he wrote the bulk of the kitsune stuff, he was brought onto the team as a main writer, I assume mostly on the strength of that.

Of course, a lot of people hate it too. But even a lot of people that dislike it like parts of it, mainly Kiyoko (and Kinu before she grows up). But even controversy just means a lot of people are talking about it and a lot of people are playing it, one way or the other.

I don't doubt your knowledge of polls you do normally back up with evidence the only thing that baffles me about this. Is if this is true why is there chat leaks proving how much TOBs dislikes Brienne? Also evidence of him taking the poll really personally as well. I think the Kitsune stuff was popular but lost the popularity as that would mean TOBs' petty behavior makes more sense? Or maybe just a personal dislike of Wsan? As we also saw a chat leak that proved that Wsan was genuinely upset about the scene and has requested more control over his characters for the future.

Something doesn't add up here if you take all information into account. I can't help but think the Kitsune content is dropping off in popularity. Especially when Takahiro is the next major project of the kitsune den. I fail to see who he appeals to? Monte however did mention the male version of Kiyoko coming but I don't think that is written by TOBs.

 

[gregers]

What I take from this discussion is that apparently there really are people who don't corrupt the beehive, since you've got Azzy as a companion. You're all sick freaks in my book.

 

[Skandranon]

I don't doubt your knowledge of polls you do normally back up with evidence the only thing that baffles me about this. Is if this is true why is there chat leaks proving how much TOBs dislikes Brienne? Also evidence of him taking the poll really personally as well. I think the Kitsune stuff was popular but lost the popularity as that would mean TOBs' petty behavior makes more sense? Or maybe just a personal dislike of Wsan? As we also saw a chat leak that proved that Wsan was genuinely upset about the scene and has requested more control over his characters for the future.

No idea on any of that stuff. I don't really care or like speculating about the personal behavior/lives of devs or any forum drama, so I skim over all that kind of talk generally.

Something doesn't add up here if you take all information into account. I can't help but think the Kitsune content is dropping off in popularity. Especially when Takahiro is the next major project of the kitsune den. I fail to see who he appeals to? Monte however did mention the male version of Kiyoko coming but I don't think that is written by TOBs.

There are currently...five, I think, kitsune upcoming? Bubbles just likes to talk about his plans the most, no idea what the next actual major project is.

Also, the bulk of Tob's kitsune content was before he was a staff writer. He now is tasked for writing for all parts of the game, not just the kitsune den. I doubt it has anything to do with popularity, its not like there's some kind of upvote button on different sections of the game. He probably just has more responsibilities now that he's on the clock, so to speak.

He just wrote a major quest not long ago, then a sheepgirl with a pretty good amount of content last month.

 

[M0nte]

View attachment 1900971

Any news on Brint?

There are currently...five, I think, kitsune upcoming? Bubbles just likes to talk about his plans the most, no idea what the next actual major project is.

You sure? From whom?

 

[Daken9]

Nah, I didn't mean just sexing them at the first meeting, that's lots of characters. But "a lot", may have been an exaggeration, more like several. But I mean, literally, having/about to have/just had sex on meeting them, or immediately proposition you when you meet them. Evelyn, harem horse futa, Elthara (though she is an enemy, doesn't really count I guess), Amber (TiTs, also a few others from there).

Both Azzy and Atugia can be recruited without sex. Azzy you just duel her a few times, and Atugia, you just talk to the countess I think. I'm also almost positive Arona is recruitable without sex just by fighting her.

I'll admit, it's ultimately a porn game so it feels like a funny discussion to have, but Evelyn is still the only one of those that you just walk into having sex. The horse harem, both of them, are just NPCs that you can sex at the first meeting. Again, short of Ragni and the cow teacher can't think of many NPCs who don't work like that. And Brint/Brienne can be recruited without sexing too, hell in Brint's case there's no sex involved to begin with, but really it's just a technicality. I'll give you that Atugia has a legit alternative way, which is great because her regular one is pretty rapey, but Arona/Azzy are just like Brint/Brienne in that the no-sex route isn't really the intended way.

To elaborate, I mean Wsan's characters tend to have sex as primary motivating factor, or as a necessity. The dryads purpose in live is basically to have sex. Elthara has to have sex to function (uncontrollable libido). Vatia (snake girl, had to look up her name) doesn't even wake up without sex. The centaur caravan has to have sex for money (and only exist because the futa centaur girl got, along with her dick, an uncontrollable libido). Amber from TiTs couldn't think without sex (uncontrollable libido). The horse girl from the baths has a harem she constantly has sex with, etc.

There are lots of characters that will have sex with you after meeting them, but there's a difference. Wsan really likes writing characters that desperately need sex.


Brienne all but throws herself at you even if you don't bang her, and doesn't really have any real motivations at all outside of liking you and want to hard sub for you constantly. Even her reuniting with her family is contextualized through her feelings for you - she's much less excited about seeing them than about you banging them. Even if you don't seek her out to have sex with her, once you've banged her once she has a repeatedly recurring sex scene when you step into the inn every few weeks when she isn't pregnant.

Azzy is introduced with a specific motivation and quest outside of you, and doesn't even volunteer to go with you - she hangs out in the hive until you recruit her. She likes you, but her character doesn't hang on yours like Brienne's does.

Okay, that i can get. Can't get behind it, give me all the clinginess and uber libido with none of the drawbacks, but i can get it.

Also, I can't see how Azzy is at "all about voyeurism/lesbianism". As far as I know, there a single, randomly activated sex scene concerning it, and maybe one talk? And it can be entirely deactivated.

Well, all the content she got post-recruitment is f/f centric. Like, hardcore. Can only watch if you're male. And look, i could handle the shit with Liaden, but fuck that threesome with Brienne and that whole milking business. Into the pool she goes and there she will stay (and her girlfriend too)

 

[Skandranon]

You sure?

-Onsen Matron
-Wandering Ronin (Savin. Probably not happening, too far down the list)
-Metallurgist (Balak)
-Delinquent (Bubbles was writing this. Not actually happening ofc)
-Nakano's trappy subordinate

Of course, some of these plans were 2020. Who knows how many of them make it?
Also, Jstar's thing.

All also on my list.

 

[Skandranon]

Well, all the content she got post-recruitment is f/f centric. Like, hardcore. Can only watch if you're male. And look, i could handle the shit with Liaden, but fuck that threesome with Brienne and that whole milking business. Into the pool she goes and there she will stay (and her girlfriend too)

Eh, I've never played a dude, and they're okay with futa, so I didn't even realize that was a thing at first.

But honestly, I think it's more a function of her having so little content than anything else...she's only really had that one single update since she became recruitable, with basically one sex scene. Though I wouldn't expect any major content updates from her until after the hive is redone.

 

[MoneyMan181]

I just think that all the writers have their own strengths

...Like every writer on the planet?

and most of them can do some things better than Wsan.

Nobody is saying he's better at literally everything when it comes to writing. I'm simply saying that considering what the game provides, he is generally the best writer. The others are either too inconsistent, don't have enough content to judge, or are just boring.

Azzy is presented as a knight trying to defend her home. Atugia is Carmen's bodyguard, and has some kind of weird hidden history for the way she is. Even Arona is struggling with her people's lifestyle and how to lead them.

All of these are minor parts of their characters and don't really mean anything when they're your companions. In fact, Arona just fucking leaves her leadership position and lets Hretha do it just to join you and doesn't really talk about it again. The only companion I can think of that genuinely feels like they have their own thing going on is Cait, which is done pretty well.

If you're not on board with the fetish of any specific character of his, there's not really much to latch on to.

That can be said for most sex-able characters. What's Hretha/Infrith got going for them besides being breeding orcs? Every character in the mare village is just for sex, the barber shop girls are just for sex, Dahliza is just there to do things for you and have sex with, Evergreen is there mostly just to progress plot and have a mommy fetish character, Nihara is there to have a gentledom kinda character, Kiyoko and Gwyn are just there for a broodmother fetish, Vitra's just a dickgirl to fuck, etc. None of these characters are ones you're going to talk to again if you don't want to fuck them. You'll go through their talk scenes once and just interact with them when you want a scene with them again. Wsan is just more upfront about it.

Now does that mean I wish all characters were set-up like his? Hell no, it wouldn't even work for a lot of these NPCs. But the thing is, when you boil most characters down, it's just about their fetish material. Most of the time everything else is just fluff that doesn't really matter. And if that's the case, I don't see why it would be a bad thing for Wsan to just skip the fluff and get right down to what matters for most random NPCs. Does that mean I like that? No, like I said, I prefer characters that actually feel like people rather than just a way to have sex. I'm just telling it how I see it.

That, and I do feel like it would be a pretty easy problem to resolve if Savin just reigned in Wsan and told him to wait a bit before getting to the sex scenes. Judging by how he doesn't really do that with TOBS' writing, I doubt that's ever going to happen, though.

 

[Konstantinus]

You can safely ignore that popup in nearly 100% of cases, You didn't even change any flags that could ACTUALLY cause a lot of damage. You'll know if you went too far when the game straight up won't load your save because you did something like giving yourself 50 material items to skip a grind on a new character later on.

The game is pretty much realizing it's save has been changed and if you have Silly mode on it'll call you a pumpkin eater instead of the usual warning.

Yeah though it is still annoying as fuck. After loosing my safe I stopped playing the game because the pop up is to annoying and I do not feel like just putting another playthrough in it.

 

[Skandranon]

Nobody is saying he's better at literally everything when it comes to writing. I'm simply saying that considering what the game provides, he is generally the best writer. The others are either too inconsistent, don't have enough content to judge, or are just boring.

I think we haven't really seen enough different kinds of Wsan stuff to judge other aspects of his writing, either.
Has he written any quests? Any lore-heavy pieces? Has he done any significant character building work, like Aileh's pregnancy and (wildly adorable) kid and visit from Kass, or seeing how everyone reacts differently to the kids in the classroom?

So far, we haven't really hit any plot heavy segments of KM, and all the story stuff there has been written by others. I'm just curious to see how well he handles it.

All of these are minor parts of their characters and don't really mean anything when they're your companions. In fact, Arona just fucking leaves her leadership position and lets Hretha do it just to join you and doesn't really talk about it again. The only companion I can think of that genuinely feels like they have their own thing going on is Cait, which is done pretty well.

Eh, I feel like Ryn definitely has a lot going on. We get scenes of her actually being a queen and motivating her people, the Winter Ball, the quest involving her ghost ancestors, your acquisition of the Wayfort is set in place by her...

But yeah, a lot of the other companions just don't have enough content to be at that same level. I feel like some of them are setting up arcs that will (theoretically) pay off in the long run, but I'm sure some of them never will.

That can be said for most sex-able characters. What's Hretha/Infrith got going for them besides being breeding orcs? Every character in the mare village is just for sex, the barber shop girls are just for sex, Dahliza is just there to do things for you and have sex with, Evergreen is there mostly just to progress plot and have a mommy fetish character, Nihara is there to have a gentledom kinda character, Kiyoko and Gwyn are just there for a broodmother fetish, Vitra's just a dickgirl to fuck, etc. None of these characters are ones you're going to talk to again if you don't want to fuck them. You'll go through their talk scenes once and just interact with them when you want a scene with them again. Wsan is just more upfront about it.

I think that distinction is important in perception of a character, though. Hretha has a background and connection to other characters enough that I feel she's as well-rounded as a random NPC needs to be. She encourages you to romance Ragnild, sends you off to get the dress, gives her opinion on the well-being of the clan and her sister's place in it, etc.

Of course you can boil every NPC's importance down to "what fetish do they serve and/or do they have a mechanical impact", but the window dressing, and making them seem like they have a place in the world really does a lot for my perception of a character.

That, and I do feel like it would be a pretty easy problem to resolve if Savin just reigned Wsan and told him to wait a bit before getting to the sex scenes.

I don't know that I'd even put it on the level of a "problem", per se. More of a style than anything.

Well, I take that back, the way Evelyn was introduced was definitely a little bit weird for me, but nothing I couldn't get over.

 

[Kroenen12]

Any news on Brint?

uhhhhh

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[Tau_Iota]

Bubbs did write Byvernia so there's that. Now having defended Bubbles I need a bath...

A bubble bath?

I''ll um, I'll see myself out.

 

[Wrynn13]

A bubble bath?

I''ll um, I'll see myself out.

Ha. No. A honey bath, come here Azzy...

 

[arls120]

uhhhhh

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sorry but I use the translator so I can't understand the images could you tell me what they say about brint please?