Apr 5, 2021
167
880
i still can't wrap my mind around the fact he got pissed at the people simply asking for Helspawn incest to be finished which he started
Especially as it was content that many of us wouldn't have thought of if he hadn't started it. Most of my CoC characters choose the spiderboy option for her (in one form or another), and the only times I've picked the incest is because I've gone "Oh, well I guess as it's there."
 

Shiro15

Member
Mar 15, 2019
146
858
Especially as it was content that many of us wouldn't have thought of if he hadn't started it. Most of my CoC characters choose the spiderboy option for her (in one form or another), and the only times I've picked the incest is because I've gone "Oh, well I guess as it's there."
Yeah, incest isn't really something i'm into. Even when games go, "she's adopted so its not creepy, right?" But if Savin promised people something they shouldn't be surprised when people want them to deliver on it.
 

Wrynn13

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2018
1,007
3,648
i still can't wrap my mind around the fact he got pissed at the people simply asking for Helspawn incest to be finished which he started
I feel that's Savin's problems stem more from laziness than incompetence. He could wrangle the devs to stop the bickering and infighting, but that's just too much effort. And the fact he's pretty much running TiTS now with Fen's issues including this shitshow that doesn't bode well. That's not to say that incompetence isn't a issue as well though...
 

Shiro15

Member
Mar 15, 2019
146
858
I feel that's Savin's problems stem more from laziness than incompetence. He could wrangle the devs to stop the bickering and infighting, but that's just too much effort. And the fact he's pretty much running TiTS now with Fen's issues including this shitshow that doesn't bode well. That's not to say that incompetence isn't a issue as well though...
I also think its because the foundation of the company is pretty rotten to begin with. Since its a mixture commission writers and staffed writers. Ignoring the toxicity of the main staff. The commission writers are under no obligation to finish story-lines or meet deadlines. Though something tells me most staffed writers/coders aren't given deadlines either. Shit gets done when it gets done. Which is a pretty bad work ethic to have. I know from working as a commission editor/writer there has been times when I would do nothing just because I didn't feel like it. I only get paid if the work is accepted and when the work is done. The only reason most commission writers don't sit on their asses all day is because they have to finish up so they can find their next job. Savin and all the staffed writers get paid at the end of the month regardless of how much content the gets put out.

While I think its harsh to call the Patreon supporters pay pigs, if they don't get upset and start pulling funding from the project Savin and Co have no reason to improve the quality, or work hard.

I know Hugs was under some sort of deadline and not meeting it was part of reason Savin and co "claim" Hugs was let go, but I think it was something they came with to punish Hugs. Which becomes plausible to me when looking at the toxicity of the community. Can't prove so, whatever.

But, I guess my main point is the reason this game is constantly being sidetracked is because it is essentially a group of friends who got together to do a passion project, and soon realized that they don't really know their friends as well as they thought. And at least from my perspective it seems like they mostly stay together for the money. As, most of the writers appear to be doing their own thing in the story now. Which makes every character feel like they exist in a separate universe. CoC2 imo could be best described as a compilation of fan-fiction from people that hate each other.
 

hater45

Member
Mar 7, 2017
131
339
That is the curse of the Patreon system unfortunately. There is no incentive to finish anything if there is no lingering sense of urgency looming over their heads and people are willing to put up with your laziness/ incompetence for a crumb of something they want. Like the Bats situation with Bubs, it took this man 6 months to write a half assed and half finished content despite him saying he was "99%" done for the longest to the point where tobs was dunking on him for it.

But I can't hate them, only envy them as I wish I was in a position where I can keep falling face forward and my supporters would throw me even more money and defend my retardation.
 

Meatshield236

Newbie
Feb 10, 2020
85
820
But, I guess my main point is the reason this game is constantly being sidetracked is because it is essentially a group of friends who got together to do a passion project, and soon realized that they don't really know their friends as well as they thought. And at least from my perspective it seems like they mostly stay together for the money. As, most of the writers appear to be doing their own thing in the story now. Which makes every character feel like they exist in a separate universe. CoC2 imo could be best described as a compilation of fan-fiction from people that hate each other.
Ain't that the truth. Many people have already pointed out how disjointed everything feels, and I could go on and on about even more crap that just doesn't make a lick of sense. It really goes to show how important project management is. It's about the least sexy thing, but properly managing your people, setting deadlines, and making sure they don't do crap like what we see here is vital for a project with as big of scope as as CoC 2. While I don't expect the height of professionalism from porn game creators, basic shit like "don't be a raging asshole" and "keep egos in check" is expected.
 

Shiro15

Member
Mar 15, 2019
146
858
That is the curse of the Patreon system unfortunately. There is no incentive to finish anything if there is no lingering sense of urgency looming over their heads and people are willing to put up with your laziness/ incompetence for a crumb of something they want. Like the Bats situation with Bubs, it took this man 6 months to write a half assed and half finished content despite him saying he was "99%" done for the longest to the point where tobs was dunking on him for it.

But I can't hate them, only envy them as I wish I was in a position where I can keep falling face forward and my supporters would throw me even more money and defend my retardation.
I think curse is the appropriate way to describe patreon success. But, I don't envy them in the slightest. While I want be successful as a writer, I never want to have an ego so big no-one can criticize me. Humility is an important trait to for anyone seeking to improve. Not just in the arts, but sports, in tech, entertainment, and so on. While it is embarrassing to go back and look at some of my past work and realize how garbage my writing was at one point. Its part of the process of becoming a better author. And no-one should ever run from that.
 

Wrynn13

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2018
1,007
3,648
Ain't that the truth. Many people have already pointed out how disjointed everything feels, and I could go on and on about even more crap that just doesn't make a lick of sense. It really goes to show how important project management is. It's about the least sexy thing, but properly managing your people, setting deadlines, and making sure they don't do crap like what we see here is vital for a project with as big of scope as as CoC 2. While I don't expect the height of professionalism from porn game creators, basic shit like "don't be a raging asshole" and "keep egos in check" is expected.
This is why I blame Savin more than anything. He is the lead dev, he should be handling the management. Tobs and Bubs fuckery wouldn't even be in the game if Savin was doing his job in a even halfway competent manor. But he just can't be bothered because that would be work.
 

Jötunn123

Newbie
Aug 2, 2022
51
82
The main reason that I do playthrough's where Arona and or Brienne's sister are dom, is because depending on the writer, Dom player can sometimes be more of a side character in the dom scenes while Arona and Brienne usually get focus and dom lines when they are in control.

For example (I could be misremembering though :) is that during Brienne's sister scenes, when pc is dom Brienne get's more focus than pc on how she enjoys making her sister be a slut but if her sister is the dom, the sister is practically in focus the entire time and acts suitably (mostly) like a dom through the scene.

Guess that's slightly an issue for a sometime silent PC
 

mrttao

Forum Fanatic
Jun 11, 2021
4,521
7,530
This re-organization (assuming the Wsan post lines up with when it all happened and wasn't too long after the fact) is actually more disturbing to me, because it suggests it was Savin's retaliation against Wsan. Savin is their boss, and he allowed that content through after a rejection. TOBS's actions are like an attack dog that Savin set loose to punish an unruly employee.
Yes, people keep on giving savin the benefit for the doubt and saying "oh, savin is just lazy." or "he is inexperienced/bad manager and doesn't know how to wrangle them"... but no, savin is actively malicious. Tobs is one of his attack dogs to be set against his own employees, while he keeps his hands clean.

Another of his tools of retribution is the "deadline" bullshit from here
I know Hugs was under some sort of deadline and not meeting it was part of reason Savin and co "claim" Hugs was let go, but I think it was something they came with to punish Hugs. Which becomes plausible to me when looking at the toxicity of the community. Can't prove so, whatever.
Deadlines apply only to employees Savin is seeking to sabotage. For everyone else, they just write what they feel like when they feel like.
 

Thisguy2

Newbie
Jan 23, 2020
70
411
To expand about this a bit.

Brianne: fan favorite NPC waifu.
WSan: writer who wrote Brianne.
Savin: lead dev
Tobs: another author.

> Tobs: "hey wsan, I want to write a relatively wholesome scene for Brienne"
> Wsan: "no, I want to be the only one writing her"
> Tobs: *flips his shit at being told no*
> Tobs: *secretely writes completely different scenes for Brienne than what he originally asked to do, degrading NTR scenes designed to ruin her. Hides it from Wsan, it gets quietly merged into the game by Savin*
> months go by
> Wsan gets complaints about the sudden tone shift for Brienne.
> Wsan deeply disturbed, exposes the whole thing. Demoralized, not sure what to do.
> Wsan says its too late to remove the scenes and after consideration he decided to not quit.
> Wsan asks savin to lock Brienne so only he can write new scenes for her
> Savin: Hey wsan buddy, can I get an exception to the lock. I want to write a scene for Brienna.
> Wsan: No, I want to be her sole writer
> Savin: Throws a public tantrum, explicitly stating it is over that refusal, saying Brienne is "dead to him".

This game development team is extremely dysfunctional and toxic.
And it perfectly explains why we are seeing the issues we are seeing with the game.
The writers are literally sabotaging each other over the slightest slights

edit:

edit:
timeline is a bit backwards. see clarification here
https://f95zone.to/threads/corrupti...0-savin-salamander-studios.11371/post-8771880
which suggests savin was more malicious than I initially thought when making this post
Man i feel bad for Wsan. Tobs is a total sociopath that seems to live on hate writing to spite players and Savins either an incompetent jackass that doesn't pay attention to his own games content or a total jackoff for knowing Tobs wrote a scene for Wsans character without his consent.
 

Mandoto

Member
Mar 23, 2021
259
1,140
The best part is that Savin pretty much can't lose Wsan, so even if he wanted to spite write for Brienne, or have Tobs do it, he can't or he'll lose one of his actual writers. You can only get so far with commissions from furry fanfic writers and roleplayers, since we all know Savin won't actively seek good writers.
 

Daken9

Active Member
Apr 28, 2017
658
4,801
Lowkey, i'd fear more the opposite. Wsan leaving for reasons and Tobs adopting Brienne becoming the genuinely best case scenario, Actual better to have never loved at all scenario.

But, cursed shit, so let's rather contemplate the alternative reality where Brint still turned but still be the one doing the consensual bullying.

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Shiro15

Member
Mar 15, 2019
146
858
Lowkey, i'd fear more the opposite. Wsan leaving for reasons and Tobs adopting Brienne becoming the genuinely best case scenario, Actual better to have never loved at all scenario.

But, cursed shit, so let's rather contemplate the alternative reality where Brint still turned but still be the one doing the consensual bullying.
If Wsan left, I don't think Savin's version of the character would be received well. At least considering how the Berry fiasco went. As even people on their own forums seemed split by the decision to remove Berry. Plus, I don't think Savin would put in the effort to work on Brin. They'd probably remove Brint and only keep Brienne saying "she's more popular, and no one here knows how to write men. The closet we can do is chicks with dicks." If anything I'm with everyone else on this. Wsan leaving would probably be the straw that breaks the camels back.
 

M0nte

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2020
1,350
2,963
Lowkey, i'd fear more the opposite. Wsan leaving for reasons and Tobs adopting Brienne becoming the genuinely best case scenario, Actual better to have never loved at all scenario.

But, cursed shit, so let's rather contemplate the alternative reality where Brint still turned but still be the one doing the consensual bullying.

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thank god, that never happened
View attachment 1987803
wsan probably realized it was a bad idea...
I would not mind the dream if it was focused on player. For it does require you to find him attractive to begin with. But if it was just them fucking, yeah, no.
 
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