Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.35] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[MoneyMan181]

Chieftain Arona is bored, likes you and her sister Hertha thinks that her excursions with you are a good way to build character for a day where she actually steps on the throne. Since Hertha is currently the one running the place.
Exiled one is double bored and aimless. So what else is she supposed to do.

Seems like a really weak and flimsy reason if you ask me. Like they really couldn't come up with anything better than her being bored? Talk about lame. Still doesn't explain why the PC or anybody else would be okay with her joining the party unless they're corrupt.

And, I mean, once Arona joins you, she does stop doing those things. It doesn't erase that she did them, but it is up to you to choose if you like her enough to have her join.

The only reason she stops killing and raping is because she can't now. It's not like she can do it in town and if she did it to every enemy you come across, that'd be its own problem. She hasn't changed at all, so she'd just go right back to doing that shit.

This shouldn't be about liking her anyway, this should be about making a decent character. Jack from Mass Effect acts very similarly to Arona but that works way better because she has a reason to act the way she does and you get to explore her backstory and character. I'm not asking for even something of that level, I just want some reason to care about her besides something as contrived as the lover scenes.

agree that there is not really any build up to her confession, but that is the case with other companions not named Cait or Quinn.

I mean yeah but that's acting like I don't have a problem with that either. If random NPCs have better relationship progression than a companion, something is definitely wrong.

 

[Wrynn13]

So, I ran through their forum out of boredom/self hate and I found that one of their writers is making a Genie. It might be the worst Genie in existence, thanks to the fact you get nothing interesting out of it at all. Why even write a wish fulfillment character in a setting that explicitly hates it.

A Genie that twists your wishes and gives you something you technically asked for but really do not want however is right up these devs alley.

 

[Skandranon]

So, I ran through their forum out of boredom/self hate and I found that one of their writers is making a Genie. It might be the worst Genie in existence, thanks to the fact you get nothing interesting out of it at all. Why even write a wish fulfillment character in a setting that explicitly hates it.

One of the goals of the genie from what B said early on is having a character that anyone can write anything for.

Since the genie can transform into anything, someone could write her as a female, male, futa, have her copy other characters and do things they wouldn't do, have her turn into unbangable characters as a way to bang them anyway, etc.

Kind of a repository for random scenes anyone wants to write.

Also....pretty much noone ever gets anything out of genies. Genies basically exist in fiction to represent the futility of wishing for what you can't have.

 

[Shiro15]

snip

Personally I think The Iron Bull from Dragon Age Inquisition is a better example of what Aronna could be, if written properly. While Bull joins under mostly peaceful terms, he is a spy for the Qunari. While it never plays out in an interesting way imo, your relationship with Bull for the most part is purely business. At the start at least. Depending on your decisions he can become a lover, brother in arms or betray in the final dlc.

Aronna could be something similar. (Not the spy thing.) But your relationship could be this mostly antagonistic/convenient solution to each others problem. Which is how I always read it. As helping her defeat her brother is done to stop the raid on Hawethorne. Not really because you like her. And she just wants to be Chief/disagrees with some of the things hes doing.

The problem like most people have already pointed out, is what comes after that. If she's chief why would she come with you? If you're her dom you could make the argument she has no real choice. What you say goes. And at that point its up to the player if she joins the party. This could lead to her disagreeing with the things you're asking her to do, or you having to stop her from raping defeated enemies. As thats what orcs or would do. Or maybe your champ does those things also and you two get along perfectly. (This could lead to multiple paths)

Maybe you kick the Orcs out completely and send them back home. Or (which is pretty clear) you're the real chief. And Aronna is keeping the throne warm for you. You literally get to fuck her in front of all the orcs after she announces herself chief. Pretty much the most power fantasy thing these devs let you do in this game.

If you're her sub, personally I think it should lead to a bad end. As why the fuck would she stop raiding Hawethorne. It's champion is a fuckboi/girl. And Aronna is the strongest person in the valley. With the exception of Kas. Personally I don't think their should a sub champion route. I think it should be turned into a power bottom path. It is essentially the same as how DAI made the inquistor that gets romantically involved with The Iron Bull a power Bottom. And its pretty much already implied as if you defeat her, and become her dom, you have the option to challenge her to a wrestling match and lose on purpose, so she becomes the dom. Could lead to some funny dialouge. (In DAI I really liked the dialogue when Bull is in the party with Cole. Cole pretty much spells it out that Bull isn't really the one in charge and that the Inquistor only lets Bull top them because he needs to feel a like a big strong man. While the Inquistor needs a distraction.)

I don't think Aronna is the worst character. I like how she develops for the most part, though I think if you got more dialogue when shes ambushing you, and it lead to actual exploration of her character it would help make the shift more believable. Instead of repeatedly fucking her or sicking Brint on her. She'd be one the games stronger characters. She's a perfect example of how this game has potential to make an interesting characters, but some issues in the writing fail to bring out her better qualities.

 

[Fiz1247]

One of the goals of the genie from what B said early on is having a character that anyone can write anything for.

Since the genie can transform into anything, someone could write her as a female, male, futa, have her copy other characters and do things they wouldn't do, have her turn into unbangable characters as a way to bang them anyway, etc.

Kind of a repository for random scenes anyone wants to write.

Also....pretty much noone ever gets anything out of genies. Genies basically exist in fiction to represent the futility of wishing for what you can't have.

So i can finally have my Kinu wincest and Gweyr fucking?

 

[G3b]

So i can finally have my Kinu wincest and Gweyr fucking?

Nice joke.

 

[Where banana?]

You talk like our character is the main character or something.
We're nothing but an extra in this piece of shit.
[/QUOTE]
considering we've gone from zero to world hero since nobody can do anything themselves if we aren't then we must a god in disguise as an extra

 

[Where banana?]

That will give to the player too much power.
And this is not, I repeat NOT, a power fantasy game.

thats what the save editor is for.

 

[Nobles]

I want my 2 turns. Im faster than everyone, kinu gets 2 turns and im way faster than she is. boo its not fair >_>

Because even tho we are suppose to be hero class and everyone licks our boots for it, we're fucking shit. We need a party to support us, we are capped at level 5 (now 6? lol) and if we get knocked out first, its an automatic loss regardless if the companions are still at 100% health.

CoC 1 you could train, mold and TF your character into something powerful. Especially if you wanted to take the dominate routes. CoC2 we dont take kindly to that shit here. They want to you be weak as piss, and make you feel it. While they still calling you their hero.

As someone posted before, you're best editing for your save file so your not weak as piss. Transformation or taking on corruption doesnt improve anything either. :/ Its now all just for fashion.

 

[Kallisto]

If you're her sub, personally I think it should lead to a bad end. As why the fuck would she stop raiding Hawethorne. It's champion is a fuckboi/girl. And Aronna is the strongest person in the valley. With the exception of Kas. Personally I don't think their should a sub champion route. I think it should be turned into a power bottom path. It is essentially the same as how DAI made the inquistor that gets romantically involved with The Iron Bull a power Bottom. And its pretty much already implied as if you defeat her, and become her dom, you have the option to challenge her to a wrestling match and lose on purpose, so she becomes the dom. Could lead to some funny dialouge. (In DAI I really liked the dialogue when Bull is in the party with Cole. Cole pretty much spells it out that Bull isn't really the one in charge and that the Inquistor only lets Bull top them because he needs to feel a like a big strong man. While the Inquistor needs a distraction.)

I agree mostly with what you said except for this part. CoC2 uses porn logic for their dom/sub relationships. DAI does it better because theirs is based more on reality. Subs generally do have the power in these types of relationships because they are allowing someone else to take control. That's what the inquis does with Bull. The way the game explains it, the inquis is in charge and looked up to 24/7 so giving power up to Bull in their sexual relationship brings her (I play female inquis) peace and comfort. It lets her relax from being the one responsible. She's not actually a powerbottom for that, power bottoms "top from the bottom" and are the ones calling the shots and setting the pace in the moment. Inquis allows Bull to be in charge and take the reins during sex. Cole in his dialogue pretty much explains what a sub/dom relationship is in its basic form - one person giving up power to another to the enjoyment of both parties.

So back to CoC2. If you're Arona's sub and she says "Well I'm gonna burn down the village, come along bitch." you should be able to say NO and try to stop her. Subs aren't doormats that accept everything with a smile and a nod. Both parties are allowed to stop if they don't like something and have already outlined what is okay and what isn't before they get into the relationship. But coc2 does the porn logic sub/dom relationships where the dom is the abusive master and the sub is their toy who does whatever they want.

Lost my train of thought but I guess my point here was DAI's sub/dom/bdsm relationship felt better because it was more based on the real thing - not because inquis was a powerbottom (which like I said, I don't believe they were) and thus "better" than a regular sub. While some CoC2 writers write the dynamic like subs are literal slaves to the whims of their dom ala Arona (Evelyn is a better example of a dom).

 

[Shiro15]

I agree mostly with what you said except for this part. CoC2 uses porn logic for their dom/sub relationships. DAI does it better because theirs is based more on reality. Subs generally do have the power in these types of relationships because they are allowing someone else to take control. That's what the inquis does with Bull. The way the game explains it, the inquis is in charge and looked up to 24/7 so giving power up to Bull in their sexual relationship brings her (I play female inquis) peace and comfort. It lets her relax from being the one responsible. She's not actually a powerbottom for that, power bottoms "top from the bottom" and are the ones calling the shots and setting the pace in the moment. Inquis allows Bull to be in charge and take the reins during sex. Cole in his dialogue pretty much explains what a sub/dom relationship is in its basic form - one person giving up power to another to the enjoyment of both parties.

So back to CoC2. If you're Arona's sub and she says "Well I'm gonna burn down the village, come along bitch." you should be able to say NO and try to stop her. Subs aren't doormats that accept everything with a smile and a nod. Both parties are allowed to stop if they don't like something and have already outlined what is okay and what isn't before they get into the relationship. But coc2 does the porn logic sub/dom relationships where the dom is the abusive master and the sub is their toy who does whatever they want.

Lost my train of thought but I guess my point here was DAI's sub/dom/bdsm relationship felt better because it was more based on the real thing - not because inquis was a powerbottom (which like I said, I don't believe they were) and thus "better" than a regular sub. While some CoC2 writers write the dynamic like subs are literal slaves to the whims of their dom ala Arona (Evelyn is a better example of a dom).

What you described is pretty much what I was getting at in my original post. The way Arona is characterized in her dom route, it doesn't make sense that she'll listen to the champ, unless the champ and arona had a relationship like bull and inquisitor. Which they don't. They have the simplified porn depiction, where she pretty much treats the champ like a cum rag, and doesn't respect them. When she says you're having sex, there is no saying no to her. She will be as brutal as she wants. No safe words no boundaries. She does not respect the champ, and has no problem with the raiding and raping. She just had a problem with her brothers leadership, and needed the champ to watch her back should he cheat. (Also doesn't make sense to me that she'd trust the champ to watch her back if she is stronger than you.) But she has no problem with raiding and raping.

Where in most people who have a sub/dom sexual relationship are essentially role playing. They have boundaries and respect for one another. Its part of the reason people have safe words with rough sex, so they know when it getting to be to much.

I agree with your description of the Inquisitor and bull's relationship. I only described it as a power bottom because that's the most appropriate way to describe their relationship. In the bedroom Bull is in charge. But outside of it the Inquisitor runs the show. But it is all part of the sexual role play they have. Their is genuine care for one another.

What I was suggesting is a Dom Arona should be more like that, as it allows the champ to be in command during the quest, while also giving room for Arona to be a dom that truly care about the champ. The way she's written now is if she's a dom what would stop her from continuing the raids on Hawethorne? Nothing. The champ can't stop her if she's a dom due to defeating the champ in the foothills. That's why I believe that path should be dropped. Instead we should only get the dom where the champ willing submits to Arona. (The path where you intentionally through the wrestling match) As it still establishes that the champ is definetely the stronger of the two in a serious fight, but sexually the champ just wants to let go when their with Arona. It makes sense on a narrative level while also fulfilling the kink for those who want it.

 

[M0nte]

I feel like everyone here is using Dom Arona as a venting mechanism for the game, ignoring the whole sub Arona expirience.

Listen, I agree that Arona is terrible dom. She treats champion with no respect, uses you as a glorified cum dump and only shows interest in you if you are willing to impregnate her. And that is also the case outside of sex scenes. Now I think that her being uncaring poopy head was the point, but not one that I am fond of.

SubArona feels entirely different. There is a clear difference to how she acts towards everyone in day to day happenings (rudely on the nose) and towards champion in bed -- with respect and adoration. Yet she doesn't entirely lose what makes Arona Arona by becoming overly docile. She still has her snark and pushes her weight around even with you present. Which is how I think it should be and what people here describe as healthy Sub/Dom relationship.

 

[Wrynn13]

SubArona is definitely best Arona.

 

[Daken9]

Lowkey think subArona got better relationship progression than pretty much anyone in the game. Enemies to frenemies to friends to

Spoiler: feels

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Still not better than Brienne, but definetely number 2.

 

[Shiro15]

I feel like everyone here is using Dom Arona as a venting mechanism for the game, ignoring the whole sub Arona expirience.

Listen, I agree that Aroma is terrible dom. She treats champion with no respect, uses you as a glorified cum dump and only shows interest in you if you are willing to impregnate her. And that is also the case outside of sex scenes. Now I think that her being uncaring poopy head was the point, but not one that I am fond of.

SUbArona feels entirely different. There is a clear difference to how she acts towards everyone in day to day happenings (rudely on the nose) and towards champion in bed -- with respect and adoration. Yet she doesn't entirely lose what makes Arona Arona by becoming overly docile. She still has her snark and pushes her weight around even with you present. Which is how I think it should be and what people here describe as healthy Sub/Dom relationship.

Its not so much as that she is a terrible person. I don't mind that. If her being mean is the point the writer should go for that. Its a bigger issue of suspension of disbelief. If Dom Arona is stronger than you and is established as a threat to the village. And Sanders, the cumpire and Garth are sending you out to deal with it (despite the devs saying their all stronger than you, but for some reason can't solve their own problems) why would she join the party? Why should she leave the village alone? I don't have a problem with a character being a bad person or unlikeable. I have a problem with their motives not making sense in context to the story. Which is what I believe a lot people who point to dom arona being poorly written are getting at.

Using Moneymans example of Jack from mass effect 2. She goes along with Shepherd because she wants to get info on Cerberus and the fact that the prison shes in is about to explode. She's with you completely out of convenience, but as the series progresses genuinely comes to care for you and the rest of the crew (even Miranda) Same deal with Grunt. As grunt literally was going to kill Shepherd as soon as he got out of the tank. But joins as he respect Shepherd as a warrior. You can take either of these paths for Arona when she's a sub, but when she's a dom who has defeated you in combat it doesn't work. (It does work with a dom that you've throw the fight with, as once again it more roleplay, and less she's actually your dom.)

Arona's motives don't make sense. If she wants to use you as a sperm donor or broodmare, why party up with you and help if she's already proven she can just rape you? Why leave the village alone after she becomes chief? The natural progression should be her going raiding unchecked and building a harem of everyone in the village and slowly taking over the land. (or Sanders, cumpire, and Garth finally stepping up and showing us how strong they are. Or Kas stopping her and turning her into a demon general.)

I don't mind it being a bad end or separate thing. I just want it to make sense. Once again I do like her. I'd even say if written properly she could be more interesting than Brienne and Brint as she has some form of arc in her sub route. And is more than the warrior archetype that only fights, fucks, and sleeps. But it needs to make sense. And this is a constant problem in the game. A concept that on paper seems good, but is usually poorly executed. This is the reoccurring problem with almost every aspect of game. Its not me trying to be mean to the devs, but if they had an actual editor or someone on quality control so many of this minor issues would go away. But they just keep piling up.

 

[Shiro15]

Lowkey think subArona got better relationship progression than pretty much anyone in the game. Enemies to frenemies to friends to

Spoiler: feels

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Still not better than Brienne, but definetely number 2.

Perfect example of why I'm starting to warm up to her, and why sub route aint bad, cause it works in context of what going on.

 

[throbzombie]

I am still waiting for a goblin shortstack, man...

There's one who shows up in the Frostwoods, I think. She's a level 5 hostile encounter.

 

[M0nte]

Its not so much as that she is a terrible person. I don't mind that. If her being mean is the point the writer should go for that. Its a bigger issue of suspension of disbelief. If Dom Arona is stronger than you and is established as a threat to the village. And Sanders, the cumpire and Garth are sending you out to deal with it (despite the devs saying their all stronger than you, but for some reason can't solve their own problems) why would she join the party? Why should she leave the village alone? I don't have a problem with a character being a bad person or unlikeable. I have a problem with their motives not making sense in context to the story. Which is what I believe a lot people who point to dom arona being poorly written are getting at.

Using Moneymans example of Jack from mass effect 2. She goes along with Shepherd because she wants to get info on Cerberus and the fact that the prison shes in is about to explode. She's with you completely out of convenience, but as the series progresses genuinely comes to care for you and the rest of the crew (even Miranda) Same deal with Grunt. As grunt literally was going to kill Shepherd as soon as he got out of the tank. But joins as he respect Shepherd as a warrior. You can take either of these paths for Arona when she's a sub, but when she's a dom who has defeated you in combat it doesn't work. (It does work with a dom that you've throw the fight with, as once again it more roleplay, and less she's actually your dom.)

Arona's motives don't make sense. If she wants to use you as a sperm donor or broodmare, why party up with you and help if she's already proven she can just rape you? Why leave the village alone after she becomes chief? The natural progression should be her going raiding unchecked and building a harem of everyone in the village and slowly taking over the land. (or Sanders, cumpire, and Garth finally stepping up and showing us how strong they are. Or Kas stopping her and turning her into a demon general.)

I don't mind it being a bad end or separate thing. I just want it to make sense. Once again I do like her. I'd even say if written properly she could be more interesting than Brienne and Brint as she has some form of arc in her sub route. And is more than the warrior archetype that only fights, fucks, and sleeps. But it needs to make sense. And this is a constant problem in the game. A concept that on paper seems good, but is usually poorly executed. This is the reoccurring problem with almost every aspect of game. Its not me trying to be mean to the devs, but if they had an actual editor or someone on quality control so many of this minor issues would go away. But they just keep piling up.

So this is still a con in a grand scheme of things, but you can beat her ass before she forces you into joining her in her little escapade of overthrowing her brother. You are still her sub afterwards, for some reason, but I think that implies that champion would, at the end of the day, still posses some kind of autonomy in the case Arona would get out of line. And it also shows that the champion could still kick her ass if they put their mind to it. It is just, that at that point, the champion likes the idea of being Aronas sub (and I would guess the player) so they are fine with her taking the lead.

She is not raping or pillaging because she sees no need to do it because she already has you as her war trophy. And because she herself sees no point in it. And, besides all that, she still has enough honor to keep her end of the bargain which is to leave you and the city alone if you help her.
Dom Arona likes you despite how bad she is at showing it. I think those are plenty enough.

There's one who shows up in the Frostwoods, I think. She's a level 5 hostile encounter.

Yeah, she counts but I want something more substantial/meaty. A goblin you can easily Cary around and manhandle to your hearts content. Like you can do to Dizzy in TiTS or that goblin chick in CoC2. With further emphasize of height difference and breeding.

 

[Shiro15]

So this is still a con in a grand scheme of things, but you can beat her ass before she forces you into joining her in her little escapade of overthrowing her brother. You are still her sub afterwards, for some reason, but I think that implies that champion would, at the end of the day, still posses some kind of autonomy in the case Arona would get out of line. And it also shows that the champion could still kick her ass if they put their mind to it. It is just, that at that point, the champion likes the idea of being Aronas sub (and I would guess the player) so they are fine with her taking the lead.

She is not raping or pillaging because she sees no need to do it because she already has you as her war trophy. And because she herself sees no point in it. And, besides all that, she still has enough honor to keep her end of the bargain which is to leave you and the city alone if you help her.
Dom Arona likes you despite how bad she is at showing it. I think those are plenty enough.

In my post I made the distinction between those routes. Where you choose to be her sub and we’re you’re made to be her sub. I take issue with the made to be her sub route. As it doesn’t make sense. Why make a promise to someone who you’re better than. In that route she’s beaten you. She’s won multiple times. If you beat her and choose to be a sub its more akin to you role playing with her. If you’re her prize cause she’s conquered you she doesn’t have to stop or change what she’s doing which is pillaging and raping.

It should turn into I a bad end, as Aron’s has no reason to change her motives or goals. Which is raping and pillaging.

But when you’re role playing as a sub it’s more like you’re both in love and as you put it the champ still has agency and can refuse if they want. I have no problem with that as it makes sense why she follows you. As you’re stronger than her, but the champ enjoys sex from the sub position.

 

[jfmherokiller]

I want my 2 turns. Im faster than everyone, kinu gets 2 turns and im way faster than she is. boo its not fair >_>

that might be possible with mods I think I saw multiturning once when I was forcing certain things to work certain ways.