Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.37] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Kuritzkale]

snip

Jesus. This just makes me feel bad for the poor bastard honestly. I mean, his fault for engaging with those people for so long, but I do think it's pretty lame to just shit all over a character someone clearly cares about. Also, while I don't particularly like quinn as he's nowhere near feminine enough for me, I really don't see the problem with him fucking other party members, as long as it's a clearly outlined choice, and preferably if it involves the PC as well.

That's what I don't get about all the rage people seem to have for that kind of content, as long as it's optional and obvious what you're getting into, why does it simply existing upset you? Even if it's "out of character" or whatever, I'd rather there be a large amount of content for all sorts of people to enjoy than each character only catering to one specific kink, which seems to be a problem this game runs into a lot. They add a ton of characters that appeal to a SUPER SPECIFIC thing, rather than just adding more content to existing characters to fulfill that niche. Like the horse asshole girl in the KM bathhouse. Doesn't get more needlessly specific than that.

That's one of the things I liked about Berwyn so much, you could dom him or he could dom you, it appealed to 2 different kinds of people without taking away from the other side. Of course, now the poor bastard is stuck living in some tower or whatever, and his writer is going through mental breakdowns on twitter, so maybe savin just REALLY hates that kind of thing. I remember in my first post on here I said how much I wanted more berwyn content. If only I had known what a mistake that was.

 

[Wrynn13]

Jesus. This just makes me feel bad for the poor bastard honestly. I mean, his fault for engaging with those people for so long, but I do think it's pretty lame to just shit all over a character someone clearly cares about. Also, while I don't particularly like quinn as he's nowhere near feminine enough for me, I really don't see the problem with him fucking other party members, as long as it's a clearly outlined choice, and preferably if it involves the PC as well.

That's what I don't get about all the rage people seem to have for that kind of content, as long as it's optional and obvious what you're getting into, why does it simply existing upset you? Even if it's "out of character" or whatever, I'd rather there be a large amount of content for all sorts of people to enjoy than each character only catering to one specific kink, which seems to be a problem this game runs into a lot. They add a ton of characters that appeal to a SUPER SPECIFIC thing, rather than just adding more content to existing characters to fulfill that niche. Like the horse asshole girl in the KM bathhouse. Doesn't get more needlessly specific than that.

That's one of the things I liked about Berwyn so much, you could dom him or he could dom you, it appealed to 2 different kinds of people without taking away from the other side. Of course, now the poor bastard is stuck living in some tower or whatever, and his writer is going through mental breakdowns on twitter, so maybe savin just REALLY hates that kind of thing. I remember in my first post on here I said how much I wanted more berwyn content. If only I had known what a mistake that was.

One of the problems is the devs often don't make it optional. Take Azzy and her relationship with Lia for example, used to be apparently if you said you had a problem with it she did it anyways. You'd think that there being enough outrage over it to make them change it would keep the devs from doing something similar again but they still do. Especially Bubs with his self insert Quin the dead who will totally bang your girls from beyond the grave because Bubs is an ass.

 

[Shiro15]

ARE YOU CRAZY OR WHAT?
Who whispered in your ear how I was supposed to address them? Are you playing the right person here or what?
Endure further, endured, since everything suits you in life.
I came today just to show how Bubs behaves when his work is criticized, presenting to everyone that he is inadequate, and you start talking about my behavior and personality, I'm shocked
And absolutely accept that I acted like an asshole there, but he fully deserved it, what he sowed, let him reap
I ask again
Why are you trying to tell me about how I behave, even though I behaved so deliberately?

While calling someones work stupid is technically criticism its not "constructive" criticism, and (at least from what I've seen) that is usually why people on this site are annoyed with the devs. Because people will spot things that go against the games lore and offer "constructive" advise on how certain characters or scenes can maintain what the devs are going for while also making sense.

What you did was the equivalent of walking up to someone punching them in the face, and when they started punching back you started calling them an asshole for defending themselves.

Criticism is not a hostile action. Often times its done out of care and a desire to see someone or something improve. And just to show you I mean no ill will, last weak I was on some bullshit, and Skandranon pointed out I was wrong. Man provided some evidence of why I was wrong, and during that whole conversation he was not calling me an idiot or doing anything to insult me. That what criticism in my opinion should be. And this largely why I believe no one in this forum has any real bad blood with Skandranon. People may disagree with them but that is it.

 

[Kuritzkale]

One of the problems is the devs often don't make it optional.

Yeah I get that, and to be clear, I completely understand being upset at that kind of thing. CoC2 lacks TONS of agency, and I think it's because of how MUCH writing there is. I've been playing CoC1 recently, and that game has WAY more choices than 2, and the choices come way more frequently as well, because a lot of the writing is... shorter? Sex scenes in 2 can go on and on and ON (just look at that frankly absurd mai sex scene tobs wrote LMAO) but in 1 they tend to be pretty concise. So there are these ridiculously long writing blocks with no input from the player, which leads to pretty inconsistent PC characterization.

A choice in CoC1 might be like this: your fuckbuddy fucks someone else, and before the PC says ANYTHING, the game gives you a choice of how to react. In CoC2, your fuckbuddy fucks someone else, and your PC says a ton of shit before the game gives you any kind of option on how YOU want to react, and even then it's usually "FUCK YES I'm into that shit" or "uh okay just don't do it around me" which is lame asf

 

[Shiro15]

Yeah I get that, and to be clear, I completely understand being upset at that kind of thing. CoC2 lacks TONS of agency, and I think it's because of how MUCH writing there is. I've been playing CoC1 recently, and that game has WAY more choices than 2, and the choices come way more frequently as well, because a lot of the writing is... shorter? Sex scenes in 2 can go on and on and ON (just look at that frankly absurd mai sex scene tobs wrote LMAO) but in 1 they tend to be pretty concise. So there are these ridiculously long writing blocks with no input from the player, which leads to pretty inconsistent PC characterization.

A choice in CoC1 might be like this: your fuckbuddy fucks someone else, and before the PC says ANYTHING, the game gives you a choice of how to react. In CoC2, your fuckbuddy fucks someone else, and your PC says a ton of shit before the game gives you any kind of option on how YOU want to react, and even then it's usually "FUCK YES I'm into that shit" or "uh okay just don't do it around me" which is lame asf

A good example of what you're talking can be seen with Urta. While I know a lot of people hate the character, I've never felt that way mainly because the game gives you multiple oppurtunities to ignore the character. And all the scenes involing her having sex with another potential sexable characters are triggered by the players action and can be opted out of post tringering those events. A couple days ago someone on this site was saying how Urta ruins Amily, as she ends up having sex with Amily if she finds out you're cheating on her with Urta. But once again that event only triggers if you had sex with Urta. If you never have sex with her it will never happen. But even if you do, you can find Amily before they have sex and stop them. Potentially break the relationship off with both characters. A lot people sit here and joke about how you can remove Urta in the mods, but I've never seen a need to. As, in my second playthrough I haven't interacted with her at all and none of the other characters do either. Personally the only character I think warrants a remove option is Luna, as she actively cause problems at your camp.

 

[Wrynn13]

Personally the only character I think warrants a remove option is Luna, as she actively cause problems at your camp.

To be fair I'm pretty sure Luna isn't in vanilla CoC1, not sure which mod adds her though cause I don't remember her but only played Revamp.

 

[Boardguy]

A good example of what you're talking can be seen with Urta. While I know a lot of people hate the character, I've never felt that way mainly because the game gives you multiple oppurtunities to ignore the character. And all the scenes involing her having sex with another potential sexable characters are triggered by the players action and can be opted out of post tringering those events. A couple days ago someone on this site was saying how Urta ruins Amily, as she ends up having sex with Amily if she finds out you're cheating on her with Urta. But once again that event only triggers if you had sex with Urta.

Go back and read the text and the chain of events. Plus that only happens with Urta and for a good chunk of time did happen without your bloody fucking control. Ya make a character act Ooc, journey to an area they no fuck all in, for stupid shit to happen is half the reason this places bitches about Tobs so whether would I tolerate it in coc1? It also ONLY happens with Urta, the OC of fen. It doesn't happen with literally anyone else and she reacts negatively to marble to the point where u need 80 int to smooth shit out and she fucking knows Jojo. It was done out of spite, repair to be optional and is a shitty scene for a character like Amily who unironically has to be coaxed to have sex with ya if your female or futa and grows to care for u. She isnt gonna get just fuck urta just cause she has a sad story or horsecock. End of story.

 

[Daken9]

A good example of what you're talking can be seen with Urta. While I know a lot of people hate the character, I've never felt that way mainly because the game gives you multiple oppurtunities to ignore the character. And all the scenes involing her having sex with another potential sexable characters are triggered by the players action and can be opted out of post tringering those events. A couple days ago someone on this site was saying how Urta ruins Amily, as she ends up having sex with Amily if she finds out you're cheating on her with Urta. But once again that event only triggers if you had sex with Urta. If you never have sex with her it will never happen. But even if you do, you can find Amily before they have sex and stop them. Potentially break the relationship off with both characters. A lot people sit here and joke about how you can remove Urta in the mods, but I've never seen a need to. As, in my second playthrough I haven't interacted with her at all and none of the other characters do either. Personally the only character I think warrants a remove option is Luna, as she actively cause problems at your camp.

The problem with that kinda content is that it exists and just shouldn't. Unless you're going for some hardcore NTR, which these games and most importantly those characters aren't, there's no literally no point to it other than tainting the whole thing for people.

Having said that, if the bad shit comes from some other writer like in Brienne's case then you're right and while bothersome it's basically OOC fanfiction and who gives a shit. If the bad shit comes from the creator (like in Atugia and Azzy's case, no idea about Amily), it's like some Doctor Strange shit where you see yo girl canonically cheating on you in 5 out of 10 timelines. Maybe this one isn't the cursed one, but that shit bound to colour your opinion either way

Also tldr the discord stuff but i blame that sack of poodoo Quin

 

[Thisguy2]

Man how can i even play Coc 1 i don't got flash on my computer anymore so it won't start up. Is there some sort of substitute i can use or am i just dumb?

 

[Raf-Raf]

Man how can i even play Coc 1 i don't got flash on my computer anymore so it won't start up. Is there some sort of substitute i can use or am i just dumb?

You're better off looking searching for that in CoC 1 thread...

 

[Biostar]

Man how can i even play Coc 1 i don't got flash on my computer anymore so it won't start up. Is there some sort of substitute i can use or am i just dumb?

Download a standalone flash player.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Thisguy2]

Download a standalone flash player.

You must be registered to see the links

Oh i litteraly just found that link too, thanks though.

 

[undyingrevenant]

I'd argue this is just the pot calling the kettle black considering you typed this entire rant to shit on the devs.

Say what you will about them or their discord, they're not coming here and trying to stir shit up for no reason. Bogdan did exactly that and everybody's response here was, "well yeah the fuck did you expect would happen?", then he desperately tries to defend his actions by going on what seem like emotional ravings. Like... this isn't what normal people do. He went there with a negative attitude and is surprised he got one back. That's like jumping into a vat of toxic goo knowing it will give you some horrible disease, then blaming the goo for giving you super AIDs.

The fact that this is even still being discussed is silly. Then again, guess I'm just as guilty for that now.


This situation is eerily similar to when Scott the Woz complains about Chibi-Robo not having anymore games. Note to any aspiring creators out there: One of the last things you should do is blame the people who consume your content if they're not happy with said content.

You right tbh. Tmi I have issues and my insurance doesn't cover psychiatrists. But anyway

 

[MarcusDBlack]

Protect her at any cost

 

[Shiro15]

Go back and read the text and the chain of events. Plus that only happens with Urta and for a good chunk of time did happen without your bloody fucking control. Ya make a character act Ooc, journey to an area they no fuck all in, for stupid shit to happen is half the reason this places bitches about Tobs so whether would I tolerate it in coc1? It also ONLY happens with Urta, the OC of fen. It doesn't happen with literally anyone else and she reacts negatively to marble to the point where u need 80 int to smooth shit out and she fucking knows Jojo. It was done out of spite, repair to be optional and is a shitty scene for a character like Amily who unironically has to be coaxed to have sex with ya if your female or futa and grows to care for u. She isnt gonna get just fuck urta just cause she has a sad story or horsecock. End of story.

I agree with you that it is out of character, as the only reason Amily ends up traveling to Tel'andre is because she hears about you sleeping around with Urta while in the town, which would not make sense as she does not travel to the town unless you turn her down at the beginning. So she should not even be aware of Urta. I also agree that Urta having multiple threesomes with other characters is most likely due to creator bias. As the only other character I am aware that has optional threesomes is the lizard girl written by Savin. Neither was to my personal taste, which is why in second play-through I just ignored it, and just chalked it up to being there for the people who are into that kind of stuff.

To be fair I'm pretty sure Luna isn't in vanilla CoC1, not sure which mod adds her though cause I don't remember her but only played Revamp.

Luna is in the Xianxia mod. My feeling on her is pretty much the same as Urta. A character who may appeal to others, but not me. The only reason I say Luna warrants the remove option is because once you recruit her I believe you are stuck with her, and the only way to remove her is by using the cheat menu. I would have to double check that.

 

[zwagon]

Yeah. Used to be that this was a topic where we shat on CoC all the time but it was a somewhat logical, fun kind of shitting. But it seems our reputation of being CoC shitters has come to such a point that we have become the actual stereotype that we were told to be. Which is absolutely hilarious. Self-fulfilling indeed.

I mean, it isn't even funny. I'd read pointless Tobs rants that would go on 50 pages 'cuz it was fun even though most of the arguments were either done to death or sometimes straight up wrong.

Welp, still can't be any worse than the actual writing crew I guess. Anon (is this the same anon who drew the berwyn art?) shitting on Bubs is hilarious. I know I said this many times but the folks who write over there legitimately have issues. I think Wsan is probably the most..normal, and mature one out of all of them. Doesn't react with anywhere near as much vitriol.

You just don't do this sort of pointless shit in a professional environment. Coworkers shitting on each other in public discord, the owner and manager quite literally just watching from the sidelines with popcorn with half-hearted words of "oh no staahp", which in turn just incentivizes this sort of ridiculous culture.

I have doubts any of these people ever held a full-time job before. I know for a fact that Wsan himself comes from "oh my god I can do literally nothing with my life, what the fuck can I do?" stock. If their most mature person is of such a background, I don't wanna imagine the others.

don't forget about Fleep! can take criticism and comes in here occasionally for feedback. even if their writing doesn't always do it for me, that attitude is respectable.

unless you meant just the major contributors, in which case, uhh, at least i don't remember Gardeford or Balak Knightfang being part of any drama

 

[Kuritzkale]

The problem with that kinda content is that it exists and just shouldn't. Unless you're going for some hardcore NTR, which these games and most importantly those characters aren't, there's no literally no point to it other than tainting the whole thing for people.

What do you mean? These characters exist, ultimately, to be jack off material for players. Again, I WOULD agree with you if your only problem was that the content was sorta unavoidable, but if the game spells out what the content is explicitly, why do you have a problem with it existing? Maybe some people are into Amily and Urta fucking, or whatever flavor of cuck content in CoC2 people have a problem with, and I fully believe they deserve to have their weird kink catered to.

If you aren't into that, you can avoid it and you lose literally nothing. Assuming it's optional, it only taints the character for you if you choose to engage with that content and don't like it, which is like, your fault? Idk, I personally don't think it's fair to get upset at content you can choose not to engage with. Just consider it non canon for your playthrough or something idk lol

 

[Boardguy]

It's optional doesn't work for characters cause there freaking characters. Too much bs slip why atugia and especially rynare a mess. Ryn especially falls into this pitfall of do everything but it's "optional" and if this game wasn't called coc would be a schizophrenic in another setting. It would be like Kiyoko being a cait tier whore but it's optional. It. It fucks ya fucking perception of a character. It's why alot of reboots suck shit too but I digress. Just fucking have an idea for a character and work in the bloody limits.This game doesn't need anymore messes and shitty ocs.

 

[JenusKudo]

I agree with you that it is out of character, as the only reason Amily ends up traveling to Tel'andre is because she hears about you sleeping around with Urta while in the town, which would not make sense as she does not travel to the town unless you turn her down at the beginning. So she should not even be aware of Urta. I also agree that Urta having multiple threesomes with other characters is most likely due to creator bias. As the only other character I am aware that has optional threesomes is the lizard girl written by Savin. Neither was to my personal taste, which is why in second play-through I just ignored it, and just chalked it up to being there for the people who are into that kind of stuff.



Luna is in the Xianxia mod. My feeling on her is pretty much the same as Urta. A character who may appeal to others, but not me. The only reason I say Luna warrants the remove option is because once you recruit her I believe you are stuck with her, and the only way to remove her is by using the cheat menu. I would have to double check that.

I think you can fire her after you find out about her real identity....

 

[Shiro15]

It's optional doesn't work for characters cause there freaking characters. Too much bs slip why atugia and especially rynare a mess. Ryn especially falls into this pitfall of do everything but it's "optional" and if this game wasn't called coc would be a schizophrenic in another setting. It would be like Kiyoko being a cait tier whore but it's optional. It. It fucks ya fucking perception of a character. It's why alot of reboots suck shit too but I digress. Just fucking have an idea for a character and work in the bloody limits.This game doesn't need anymore messes and shitty ocs.

When you put it like that, I guess I am being to relaxed on the bad writing decisions. Because what you're describing is literally the reason I did not like the new Berwyn content, as Berry suddenly being a god tier mage isn't set up at all. Berry literally struggles to control other elements besides earth (which is stated to be a basic ability, by Berry themself). And in game a black mage champion starts with the ability to use a fire spirit something Berry is struggling to even learn. So when I got to the end of his new quest with my mage, I was like how the fuck is Berry doing this, when the games lore pretty much puts Berry's abilities below your own character. But, yeah I guess you're right it does not excuse making a character act in a way that does not make sense, just because some people want it. It is essentially a dues ex machina.