Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.0] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Vyran22]

You mean post-Atlantis. Pre-Atlantis Caenis is story locked.

As for the corruption point, didn't they get a lot of money monthly for this yet nobody considered maybe hiring a writer for corruption routes or something to the tone of that?

"Nobody likes to write it" isn't a great excuse when you have the means of treating the writing process like actual work.

I meant Pre-Atlantis in terms of how she is portrayed in story from Russia to when she gets actual character development in Atlantis-Olympus, like when she basically says she wants to have her way with Anastasia right in front of Kadoc, or how the rest of her screen time is spent talking shit.

And I assume the money they are paid is for them to sit on their asses "reviewing" submissions for weeks, however the hell that process works, and occasionally paying the people who actually write them. So obviously they just can't pay someone to that stuff, that would be crazy.

Conquer and burn everything?
Taking every location for yourself?
Take over the world?

Well, I don't know about you folks but this is quickly starting to sound like a power fantasy, is it not?

And, you do know what we say about power fantasies over in these parts, don't you?

Shit they could make it actually challenging and difficult to do based on your performance throughout the rest of the game to make it feel like an actual achievement but they'd never do it because of the sheer scale of the concept would require so much work that they'd immediately back out on doing it and they'd use the same excuse for axing it that they used for Corrupt Hive "Well no one wants to write it, so we won't bother."

Really though, the idea of shaming a power fantasy in a fucking RPG game is absurd, achieving that power is the whole point of the fantasy. If they hate it so goddamn much why not just make the main story a progression of the player into serfdom? Shit I'm excited to bring the Corrupted Lupines to the wayfort so I can imagine them being my own Diamond Doggos, I doubt that would ever even be a possibility in game but at least I can imagine it myself. Can't have shit.

 

[Tsubuhaza]

I meant Pre-Atlantis in terms of how she is portrayed in story from Russia to when she gets actual character development in Atlantis-Olympus, like when she basically says she wants to have her way with Anastasia right in front of Kadoc, or how the rest of her screen time is spent talking shit.

And I assume the money they are paid is for them to sit on their asses "reviewing" submissions for weeks, however the hell that process works, and occasionally paying the people who actually write them. So obviously they just can't pay someone to that stuff, that would be crazy.

Dunno what it says about me not gelling with anything after the Abigail section but I simply do not remember that. All I remember is Caenis throwing shitfits abour gender, wrecking people because that's what happens on Lostbelts and that's about it.

And yeah, probably right on the money about... the money. Talk about ass-backwardness then. Either that or Moira's expensive as all hell.

 

[Azriel Satan]

How about hiring a writer to do that stuff? Like a normal developper would.

I know we like to talk about it like it makes a bunch of money because Fenoxo was near the top Patreon project at one point, but I'm not sure that hiring a writer for just that is something like that on top of the existing writers, artists & programmers.

As someone who has delved into the code a lot, it is depressing to see just how much content is hidden in the files but will never be implemented. Lots of scenes have variations for stuff that I doubt will happen; for example, there are relationship flags in many characters or scenes written and implemented (though with serious spelling mistakes) for states that cannot be triggered.

 

[GokutheG]

I know we like to talk about it like it makes a bunch of money because Fenoxo was like the top patreon project as one point, but I'm not really sure that hiring a writer for just that is something like that on top of the existing writers, artists & programmers.

If the team has too many full time paid writers they could always commission a writer for corruption content to certain areas. That'd have to be cheaper right?

 

[Alterism]

How about hiring a writer to do that stuff? Like a normal developper would.

That costs money while getting somebody to do the job for you for free, is free.
Though now that I'm in a more lucid mindset, that logic, wanting CoC1 writers to do the heavy lifting, doesn't make sense.

Spoiler: Squish

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... That was quite a tangent.

The summary of the above statements is this.
If you wanted to be a 3rd party writer, you'd write around tons of restrictions, have no control over things you write, have half of the roster be untouchable, have meta reasons blocking things you want to write (like B being barred from making a F/F pregnancy for Zo), and generally have to goose-step around every decision.

So where were those corruption writers supposed to come from and exactly what were they even going to be allowed to do?

I know we like to talk about it like it makes a bunch of money because Fenoxo was like the top patreon project as one point, but I'm not really sure that hiring a writer for just that is something like that on top of the existing writers, artists & programmers.

Funny thing about that now that I've broken my one taboo. The person that wrote corrupt Amily, that content that people refer fondly back to, wasn't initally all that fond of writing it. Nobody knew this for months because it was done without complaint nor incident.

But that was back during a time when Fen was hungry.

Hunger led to all manners of things. Like adding things that people want purely for the love of being able to eat.

You know, now that I'm on that. TiTS just recently added a Slyvaren slave. While I'm not much of a fan of the setup and nature of the content (if the person doesn't come out the other side actually happy it happened, it's not for me), and it's clear from the comments that Fen isn't all on board on exactly happy how it went, even letting it in shows that Fen still has the grit to let people add stuff if they're willing enough to pay for it.
... Or desperate enough for content to put into the game.

Same result, really.

The addition to the summation of this string of consciousness is this. If they were able to fund these types of projects back when Fen was making a scant 1.5k a month, they could do so now making 29k (or is it 28k now? Irrelevant anyways)

Big Edit:
This is all in the hypothetical.
The statement "I don't want to do it" is really all that's necessary. They don't want to, it's their game, it won't happen. That's not a wrong stance to have.

 

[GokutheG]

like B being barred from making a F/F pregnancy for Zo

WHAT?! What bullshit reason did they give to block this content?

 

[Tsubuhaza]

I know we like to talk about it like it makes a bunch of money because Fenoxo was near the top Patreon project at one point, but I'm not sure that hiring a writer for just that is something like that on top of the existing writers, artists & programmers.

Of course, I doubt I'd ever get the access to, say, the financial report of the game month by month to understand where every coin goes to. Not only because I think that would be rather personal but also because I have the slight feeling they don't have one... but I'll say this: if you're running an endeavour with a reasonably sized financial budget, you best be used to things like contracts and hiring people for specific tasks.

And if you can't find anyone willing to write corrupted things for free, then you might want to put a bit of money on that and see if it changes the opinions. It's troublesome and all but that's the sort of thought a lead should have, you want the project to come out and deliver.

That costs money while getting somebody to do the job for you for free, is free.

Sick. And almost nobody bit to write corrupted stuff, apparently. So, what do you do when you can't find someone willing to do for free that isn't just shrug and go DM some wank ass RPG tables instead? You see about hiring someone, even lowballing would already be progress.

Bear in mind I say this as someone who doesn't care for corruption but when the thing is in the title of the game, might as well.

 

[ChubbyFatBoy]

That costs money while getting somebody to do the job for you for free, is free.
Though now that I'm in a more lucid mindset, that logic, wanting CoC1 writers to do the heavy lifting, doesn't make sense.

Spoiler: Squish

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... That was quite a tangent.

The summary of the above statements is this.
If you wanted to be a 3rd party writer, you'd write around tons of restrictions, have no control over things you write, have half of the roster be untouchable, have meta reasons blocking things you want to write (like B being barred from making a F/F pregnancy for Zo), and generally have to goose-step around every decision.

So where were those corruption writers supposed to come from and exactly what were they even going to be allowed to do?


Funny thing about that now that I've broken my one taboo. The person that wrote corrupt Amily, that content that people refer fondly back to, wasn't initally all that fond of writing it. Nobody knew this for months because it was done without complaint nor incident.

But that was back during a time when Fen was hungry.

Hunger led to all manners of things. Like adding things that people want purely for the love of being able to eat.

You know, now that I'm on that. TiTS just recently added a Slyvaren slave. While I'm not much of a fan of the setup and nature of the content (if the person doesn't come out the other side actually happy it happened, it's not for me), and it's clear from the comments that Fen isn't all on board on exactly happy how it went, even letting it in shows that Fen still has the grit to let people add stuff if they're willing enough to pay for it.
... Or desperate enough for content to put into the game.

Same result, really.

The addition to the summation of this string of consciousness is this. If they were able to fund these types of projects back when Fen was making a scant 1.5k a month, they could do so now making 29k (or is it 28k now? Irrelevant anyways)

Big Edit:
This is all in the hypothetical.
The statement "I don't want to do it" is really all that's necessary. They don't want to, it's their game, it won't happen. That's not a wrong stance to have.

Comment inadvertently sent me down a rabbit hole. Looked up who the Izma character was. Found myself like +30 minutes later, a couple tabs deep in the wiki. There is a lot of fuck shit you can apparently do in the original. Tried it like once or twice, but it didn't click with me. But now I feel compelled to try again anyway. I can see why people felt some type of way with the lack of corruption content in this game. Considering some of what I saw with the 1st. Even my primarily vanilla playing ass had a thought to maybe dip a toe into some tomfoolery.

 

[dolosolo]

it still blows me how in the first game, for a very substantial part of it, the player could choose to be an abhorrent monster. With a much more functional corruption mechanic too like it was immersive. even if you didn't choose to be terrible, the divergent path still added to the fantasy of being heroic or righteous. the severely toned down diverging paths in the current game make me feel like all villian/hero/traveler fantasy is headcannon, as if I'm on rails being righteous. most coc1 dungeons are: survive these agents of chaos adventurer, or fail lol who cares. while most coc2 dungeons are: you must save us champion !!, different dialog isnt nearly enough, the player almost never feels in danger of succumbing to corruption. and if you don't like romancing kasyrra then youre really left out to dry. no corrupted hive, centaur village, or khorminos makes me feel like that anyways. no corrupt khorminos(it was cut right?) is such a fumble bc it would have been massive for the pc's character, moreso than the hive and village. the choice to save the city or let it fall, feedback for player choice wow please i really needed that. instead of being railroaded into a saved city, adds nothing to my connection with my character. I see my character as a faceless bag looking for another npc to add to the wayfort. a world moves with or without you, one that you can intervene in, is intensely more immersive than one that only progresses by you.

The lupine dungeon in all of its modularity and path choices was what i expected from the entire game, when it first launched. an even more robust web of upped ante and player choice. for something meaningful to happen at various corruption levels, more than just gear. more than switched dialog. more than a pocketful of characters. more pressing struggles with doing what's right, having to make the hard choice, being unable to save everybody idk i wish corruption was actually a character here like the flood in halo, not 1 to 1 but menacing in presence. and choosing how to combat it is defining for our character and instrumental for the bond with them. im actually feeling kindof stupid for wanting a porn game to deliver that

 

[PixelLewd]

also women with dicks arent niche they're taboo

So I know its been awhile since this comment got made, but it kept nagging me and I want to ask.......why are dick girls/futa's taboo? Far as I know the closest phenomenon we have to that in nature/real life is nowhere near common enough for that to be true in any culture or religion.

Unless my ass is being retarded and you were referring to somewhere fictional where its the case? I'm just honestly confused and curious why you specifically used taboo over say weird, looked down upon, or I'm sure for some people/cases disgusting

 

[dolosolo]

Unless my ass is being retarded and you were referring to somewhere fictional where its the case? I'm just honestly confused and curious why you specifically used taboo over say weird, looked down upon, or I'm sure for some people/cases disgusting

im american, i was talking about irl trans women and fictional futa. trans healthcare was a major republican talking point during our last election, and rights are being legislated away. here its very common to be scared to present or be visibly trans. its common to be violent towards trans women. its common to be secretive about being attracted to trans women. its accepted to be homophobic towards people who are attracted to trans women or see trans women as women, fictional futa too. i used taboo because i feel like the best case scenario for all people involved here to be safe is to be invisible, which i think is wrong,

 

[PixelLewd]

im american, i was talking about irl trans women and fictional futa. trans healthcare was a major republican talking point during our last election, and rights are being legislated away. here its very common to be scared to present or be visibly trans. its common to be violent towards trans women. its common to be secretive about being attracted to trans women. its accepted to be homophobic towards people who are attracted to trans women or see trans women as women, fictional futa too. i used taboo because i feel like the best case scenario for all people involved here to be safe is to be invisible, which i think is wrong,

I see then. Because I'd rather not bog down this thread with all the baggage that subject can bring, I'll just say that is definitely your opinion to have on that subject, and we can agree to disagree on the finer points. Either way have a nice day and thanks for indulging my question

 

[MarvintheBee]

-snip-

Corrupted Khorminos is definetly axed.

But maybe we will get still get to corupt some Npcs there. There have been hints... (or maybe it's the cope talking but you never know.)

--All that Izma talk--

Honestly don't hold back on our behalf, I just love learning more about the history of the coc community.
And now talk like this makes way more sense.


(don't know how huge the part of "forumites" were responsible but still, that adds a lot of context)

 

[Yeppers34]

Corrupted Khorminos is definetly axed.
View attachment 4475040
But maybe we will get still get to corupt some Npcs there. There have been hints... (or maybe it's the cope talking but you never know.)

Honestly don't hold back on our behalf, I just love learning more about the history of the coc community.
And now talk like this makes way more sense.
View attachment 4475059
View attachment 4475060
(don't know how huge the part of "forumites" were responsible but still, that adds a lot of context)

No corrupt khor'minos is both disappointing and also not surprising but at this point I just want them to be done with the place already.

 

[=Cheezeburger_n'_Fries=]

So... is there a chance that this game is going to be modded in the far future?

I said far because I don't know when the development of this game is going to end.

 

[thecatcameback]

So... is there a chance that this game is going to be modded in the far future?

I said far because I don't know when the development of this game is going to end.

How many decades ya got left in the tank?

 

[Walk Cycle]

You absolutely can mod the game right now. There's a user here that has a hate boner for Wsan that removed all of his content and I think added new ones. I dunno if they're still here, I blocked them because they're a native Chinese speaker and whatever translator they use hurts to read.

 

[Vyran22]

Corrupted Khorminos is definetly axed.
View attachment 4475040

Why do they even bother bringing it up as a concept when there is no concrete plan to get it done? Just like the corrupt hive, if you don't have a commitment from someone to get it done and with an outline at least started why even bring it up as a possibility? All it looks like is that you are under-delivering and with how frequently this seems to happen it only looks like you are doing it on purpose.

I guess that means Khorminos is done right? We can move on and leave it all behind right? Because there is no point in getting involved with their politics, like you can at the Royal dinner, if the only option is to see how many members of this royal family you can fuck, they may as well been any other kind of NPC.

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Like it is possibly the most easiest route to affect corruption on the city on a wide scale, you literally have an in with either: the Princess, the Prince (possibly in the future I guess), the King, a Senator, or some combination of them. Hell you could probably count Octavia too, as an even more insidious route to try and cause chaos. The player has an in with the highest people of authority in the city, bending their ear and corrupting them is not that ridiculous a concept, what happens afterwards and the effects it may have on other content is clearly the hang up they don't want to deal with as was said:

The summary of the above statements is this.
If you wanted to be a 3rd party writer, you'd write around tons of restrictions, have no control over things you write, have half of the roster be untouchable, have meta reasons blocking things you want to write (like B being barred from making a F/F pregnancy for Zo), and generally have to goose-step around every decision.

So where were those corruption writers supposed to come from and exactly what were they even going to be allowed to do?

Only now it is either a bunch of work for someone else who has to do it on eggshells with both hands tied behind their back or a member of the staff has to take authority of it along with all the flak and shit from people upset about how there might be consequences for their actions, like say one of their favorite NPCs vanishing, because their creator doesn't feel like doing the extra work that incorporate them into a new environment, even if maybe having that kind of character duality would actually create a reason to start a new file beyond the reason of your old one getting dusted.

I doubt even Savin would want to piss off that many other writers by making unilateral changes to and entire city of characters, because it would just push them more away, cause more development friction, and probably ultimately cause more writers to leave thus giving him more work, something I am certain he does his best to avoid.

So we're stuck. Any meaningful corruption content can't exist, because it would have to basically be ordered by Savin that if you want to write a character you have to make a corrupted version if the space they are in gets corrupted, which would create more work for him and his circle as well so he wouldn't be a fan of it either. The very least they could do is make it so your corruption score will lock you out of interactions with certain NPCs, which may already be present in some form, but I doubt anyone would really be happy with such a weak compromise. May as well just convert Corruption into slut score and have it close off marriage options once it gets high enough or something, maybe unlock some depraved scenes with

Spoiler: lewd

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or something I don't know.

 

[TalRash4]

Spoiler: lewd

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or something I don't know.

(shocked gasp)
Such degeneracy!
I would love to see content like this.

 

[Gameguy614]

Only now it is either a bunch of work for someone else who has to do it on eggshells with both hands tied behind their back or a member of the staff has to take authority of it along with all the flak and shit from people upset about how there might be consequences for their actions, like say one of their favorite NPCs vanishing, because their creator doesn't feel like doing the extra work that incorporate them into a new environment, even if maybe having that kind of character duality would actually create a reason to start a new file beyond the reason of your old one getting dusted.

I doubt even Savin would want to piss off that many other writers by making unilateral changes to and entire city of characters, because it would just push them more away, cause more development friction, and probably ultimately cause more writers to leave thus giving him more work, something I am certain he does his best to avoid.

I’m honestly at a juncture where I can’t help but have the view point of “don’t make your passion your job”, boomer as it may be.
Make hard-lines, or do the work and deal with the complaints. I get that coding takes a great deal of time and effort, but this is a text game running on a glorified flash system, that still has a litany of grammatical errors. I know we’re agreeing but like, you can’t ask for money, give paltry updates, say a lot more work than we see goes into the project, and then have issues that go unsolved for literal years.
How long ago was it that the initial corrupt lupine encounter got implemented? And it still has parser and grammar problems?