Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.1] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Tau_Iota]

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my champion on his way to prove them wrong:
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Mfw he considers Oni, which are literal murdering cannibal demons, more cultured than the rest of the Marches and warranted in doing so

I now need an update where you can go full Crusader on them and just take their land and claim it yours. I mean, why not? Already have the Wayfort as a stronghold. Get Khorminos in on it so you can ride a Centauress into battle like a real Champion and show them how barbaric you can be. They suffer from the same problem the "gods" of this world have, zero problem with a literal demon just waltzing around and corrupting everything she can get her mitts on. You would think cooler heads would prevail and they'd agree to help stopping a literal demon. (Side note, love Kass but still she's a demon. They don't know her like you do, and so should be at least the slightest bit concerned.)

Also the use of "gunboat diplomacy" in reference to a Japanese-styled empire is a really obvious reference to Millard Fillmore's show of force to Japan in the 1850s. Kind of cringe.

 

[Deleted member 1660801]

Also the use of "gunboat diplomacy" in reference to a Japanese-styled empire is a really obvious reference to Millard Fillmore's show of force to Japan in the 1850s. Kind of cringe.

I have no idea what any of this means could you explain what makes it so weird?

 

[Bloep]

I have no idea what any of this means could you explain what makes it so weird?

After Japan was united under one central government after a lengthy period of warlordism and civil war, they basically closed down the countries borders and became very isolationist. This is largely refered to as "Sakoku" (locked country)
This period of japanese isolation that lasted for around 250 years, was called the "edo period"
This all started to come to an end however when the US of A came knocking with big boats (gunboats) and demanded Japan traded with them and ended this isolation they had going.

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[Tau_Iota]

I have no idea what any of this means could you explain what makes it so weird?

Okay, so gunboat diplomacy is a show of force to get another nation to implement a desired policy. It's called "gunboat diplomacy" because it usually entails warships parading in waters off the coast of the nation you want to implement said policy. Basically, bullying another country to give you what you want. The United States has done this numerous times, and in this case President Millard Fillmore wanted Japan to come out of isolation to trade with the United States (really just for their coal and whale oil). Nine ships sailed out to Japanese waters, and one year later a treaty was signed. It opened diplomatic relations between the two nations, but also is often cited as one of the causes of Japanese aggression towards the United States during World War 2.

 

[Skandranon]

Mfw he considers Oni, which are literal murdering cannibal demons, more cultured than the rest of the Marches and warranted in doing so

Vampires are basically the same thing, and we often portray them as extremely cultured.

 

[Tau_Iota]

Vampires are basically the same thing, and we often portray them as extremely cultured.

Vampires are not like Oni at all, vampires are basically people with a blood fetish. Oni are demons that can swallow humans whole. A vampire can hide in plain sight, an Oni cannot. I recommend reading about Shuten-doji to get an idea of how different they are from vampires, as Shuten-doji gets a lair just like Dracula.

Mfw an Oni wearing a tuxedo far too small walks up to me and claims he's a local business man

Edit: Also, vampires never really had such great stories like Shuten-doji's. If someone went out of their way to make Oni more human and less demon it would be a disservice to them. They're meant to be terrifying, not a charming ne'er-do-well. The story of The Oni Mask where a little girl puts on an Oni mask terrifies grown men so badly they leave all their money. Poor girl is so sweet that she even waits for them to come back (they don't because Oni are terrifying) despite how shitty they were to her

 

[Skandranon]

Vampires are not like Oni at all, vampires are basically people with a blood fetish. Oni are demons that can swallow humans whole. A vampire can hide in plain sight, an Oni cannot. I recommend reading about Shuten-doji to get an idea of how different they are from vampires, as Shuten-doji gets a lair just like Dracula.

Mfw an Oni wearing a tuxedo far too small walks up to me and claims he's a local business man

Edit: Also, vampires never really had such great stories like Shuten-doji's. If someone went out of their way to make Oni more human and less demon it would be a disservice to them. They're meant to be terrifying, not a charming ne'er-do-well. The story of The Oni Mask where a little girl puts on an Oni mask terrifies grown men so badly they leave all their money. Poor girl is so sweet that she even waits for them to come back (they don't because Oni are terrifying) despite how shitty they were to her

Sorry, I think we might have crossed wires: I don't actually mean they're the same thing as oni, just that they are "literal murdering cannibal demons", who also happened to be portrayed as very cultured.

 

[Merari]

Damnit, saw shark girl on the upcoming content list and instantly had my hopes ruined. Why Futa shark girl CoC2? Why ruin my favorite morph type.
Far to many damn dick girls.

 

[Kuritzkale]

they are "literal murdering cannibal demons", who also happened to be portrayed as very cultured.

This is probably because vampires have basically always been a weird sex thing, whereas (as far as I know) onis have just kinda been monsters. I don't think vampires are portrayed as cultured so much as they're portrayed as... feigning being cultured. It's kind of their whole thing. They use the disguise of a well mannered high class noble to suck blood out of some blonde woman, or out of some kid in multiple weirdly pedophilic scenes (I hate you Anne Rice, you weird pedophile). Idk man, vampires and vampire fiction is fucking weird. Sorry for going off the rails at the end there, I just really hate Anne Rice.

 

[Kallisto]

Eh...I kinda think he would.

Having read a bunch of his stuff the past day or two on forums, I wouldn't categorize his attitude towards the Kitsune (and by extension, the Japanese) as thinking they are "perfect."

He's repeatedly implied or called them racist, hypocritical, insular, shutoff, etc, and honestly his portrayal of the kitsune kinda start to come off as a outsiders condemnation of the Japanese more than anything else.

The thing about this tho is that he does it in pretty much all of his content. The player is railroaded into acting one way and agreeing with whatever the situation is (or just not having a choice), due to how Tobs writes the MC. But the second someone on the forums says "you know actually the kitsune say all this shit but they're really the outsiders/barbarians hiding behind a veil of culture", Tobs jumps in with something like "finally someone noticed" and off he goes explaining how deep his characters are.

So there's a bit of a disconnect. If he knows his kitsune are not as holier-than-thou as he has written them, than why can't the player do something about that (and I'm just talking simple dialogue choices or something, not murderhoboing everyone). If Gweyr was actually wrong for choosing the easiest route for her - killing the cultist youth- and being unremorseful about that, why are our choices to her being a monster or not "No, you did what had to be done." and "Yes, but you did what had to be done so it's okay."

It just really annoys me that he writes this largely one-sided portrayal but outside of the game, strokes his ego to how complicated his work really was/is.

 

[Boardguy]

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my champion on his way to prove them wrong:
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Can't really complain about gunboat diplomacy when the fucks are the ones invading from the old country and drinking from people, one where you need an outsider to bring you metal cause your to stupid to get it yourselves and where the outsider decked everyone of you in the face just to talk to komari.

 

[MoneyMan181]

The thing about this tho is that he does it in pretty much all of his content. The player is railroaded into acting one way and agreeing with whatever the situation is (or just not having a choice), due to how Tobs writes the MC. But the second someone on the forums says "you know actually the kitsune say all this shit but they're really the outsiders/barbarians hiding behind a veil of culture", Tobs jumps in with something like "finally someone noticed" and off he goes explaining how deep his characters are.

So there's a bit of a disconnect. If he knows his kitsune are not as holier-than-thou as he has written them, than why can't the player do something about that (and I'm just talking simple dialogue choices or something, not murderhoboing everyone). If Gweyr was actually wrong for choosing the easiest route for her - killing the cultist youth- and being unremorseful about that, why are our choices to her being a monster or not "No, you did what had to be done." and "Yes, but you did what had to be done so it's okay."

It just really annoys me that he writes this largely one-sided portrayal but outside of the game, strokes his ego to how complicated his work really was/is.

The shit he writes isn't even complicated or intelligent is the thing. He makes it seem like it is with all this useless flowery language, but in reality it's shallow enough for an average middle school student to grasp. It is incredibly obvious that the Kitsune are the assholes and that Gweyr could have handled the situation better.

In a vacuum, this would be fine if the player had agency or the characters in question were written in a compelling and multi-faceted way. But the thing is, TOBS does neither of those things. He doesn't allow the player to feel like they're truly in the game(which is the entire fucking point of the game) and vindicate themselves, yet he also doesn't even give you the opportunity to become invested in these scenarios because all of the characters in question are one-dimensional unapologetic dickheads.

Allow players to actually express their distaste with these situations instead of forcing the PC of our characters to be doormats. If not, actually create a reason to make me give a shit about this conflict in the first place.

Let your kitsune family actually give a shit about you and defend you from these other Kitsune dickheads. Introduce ways to actually raise our daughter so she doesn't become a spiteful cunt for no reason. Let the player say, "I don't give a shit about you viewing me as a barbarian, you're all pathetic outcasts that can't even be accepted in your own nation. You're all failures that have no right to judge anybody else." Allow me to actually comment how fucking psychopathic it is for Gweyr to feel nothing after killing CHILDREN. Make Gweyr actually torn up about what she did to those kids and have her punish herself by not leaving the Rift because she feels that guilty about what she did and not being there for her family.

And this is shit I come up off the top of my head. Yet he does none of this because he's so hyper focused on needlessly ginormous word counts and telling his own story for HIMSELF. I legit have no idea how Kitsune content is allowed in the game because it feels like it doesn't even remotely belong in it.

It's a shame too, because Kiyoko in the amulet was actually a strong start and could have developed into the world in a much more seamless and unobtrusive way. Kiyoko herself was even a missed opportunity. She could be a lot more emotional and mellow due to yknow, being stuck inside an alternate dimension for an astronomically long time from her view. Let the player help her through the trauma of that and allow her to be happy again, even if it's just platonic for female PCs. Let me form an actual bond with my wife that's birthed countless amounts of my children.

But no, let's write about how Kitsune culture is just too galaxy brained for the PC and will never truly be able to connect with their family. People love that, right?

God I really just can't hold back my dislike for TOBS holy shit. Honestly half-tempted to rewrite all of his garbage that's in the game and throw it up somewhere.

 

[Futa_Buddy]

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my champion on his way to prove them wrong:
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So they're morons as well, lovely... :\

Being a barbarian does not mean that you are lesser or not as technologically advanced, it means that you are an 'outsider', meaning someone from a different tribe/nation...

 

[M0nte]

I am crossing my fingers that it happens and that it does not have the requirement of being feminine

He will not be. While I think Jstar implied that he is made for femPCs (his focus will be PC pregnancy), he will have content for those that have dicks, regardless of their femininity.

 

[smithsmithsmith]

I just found out yesterday evergreen has additional scenes when you keep repeating her stuff (eg give her enough blowjobs and you start to become her cumdump or w.e if goes)

I wish stuff like this was better signposted, I had no idea this was a thing for Evergreen. Evelyn has some decent dom content but it's not as gradual and has no forced tf.

 

[Daken9]

The shit he writes isn't even complicated or intelligent is the thing. He makes it seem like it is with all this useless flowery language, but in reality it's shallow enough for an average middle school student to grasp. It is incredibly obvious that the Kitsune are the assholes and that Gweyr could have handled the situation better.

In a vacuum, this would be fine if the player had agency or the characters in question were written in a compelling and multi-faceted way. But the thing is, TOBS does neither of those things. He doesn't allow the player to feel like they're truly in the game(which is the entire fucking point of the game) and vindicate themselves, yet he also doesn't even give you the opportunity to become invested in these scenarios because all of the characters in question are one-dimensional unapologetic dickheads.

Allow players to actually express their distaste with these situations instead of forcing the PC of our characters to be doormats. If not, actually create a reason to make me give a shit about this conflict in the first place.

Let your kitsune family actually give a shit about you and defend you from these other Kitsune dickheads. Introduce ways to actually raise our daughter so she doesn't become a spiteful cunt for no reason. Let the player say, "I don't give a shit about you viewing me as a barbarian, you're all pathetic outcasts that can't even be accepted in your own nation. You're all failures that have no right to judge anybody else." Allow me to actually comment how fucking psychopathic it is for Gweyr to feel nothing after killing CHILDREN. Make Gweyr actually torn up about what she did to those kids and have her punish herself by not leaving the Rift because she feels that guilty about what she did and not being there for her family.

And this is shit I come up off the top of my head. Yet he does none of this because he's so hyper focused on needlessly ginormous word counts and telling his own story for HIMSELF. I legit have no idea how Kitsune content is allowed in the game because it feels like it doesn't even remotely belong in it.

It's a shame too, because Kiyoko in the amulet was actually a strong start and could have developed into the world in a much more seamless and unobtrusive way. Kiyoko herself was even a missed opportunity. She could be a lot more emotional and mellow due to yknow, being stuck inside an alternate dimension for an astronomically long time from her view. Let the player help her through the trauma of that and allow her to be happy again, even if it's just platonic for female PCs. Let me form an actual bond with my wife that's birthed countless amounts of my children.

But no, let's write about how Kitsune culture is just too galaxy brained for the PC and will never truly be able to connect with their family. People love that, right?

God I really just can't hold back my dislike for TOBS holy shit. Honestly half-tempted to rewrite all of his garbage that's in the game and throw it up somewhere.

He's at the very least a control freak who can't condone giving the player (or even the reader) any kind of leeway, and i'm not even trying to be mean about it. You can just tell by looking at his how long appearance descriptions alone are:

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Like, Wsan's writing is at times a bit laconic/fast paced (unralted to content, my personal favorite is probably William) but this shit is taking the ball and sprinting to kingdom come. Just positively stifling for the reader's imagination, basically trying to make visual media out of a written piece.

But on other news, i think they might've sneak added a scene for pregnant Brienne sometime recently. Was randomly going around the wilds and one fired that i can't remember ever seeing before. Maybe it's not new and it's just a variant of the scene she gets late into her pregnancy, if you're in the wilds rather than in Hawkethorne. Dunno, seemed different.

 

[MSGTNP]

No no, our dauteru will side with them and probably her mum' will too so that'll be the ultimatum for Tobs to us.

That's why you just export Kinu and put her into something lol
I made her and her two sisters into kitsune baby making factories in another game to produce loyal officers for me lol

The thing about this tho is that he does it in pretty much all of his content. The player is railroaded into acting one way and agreeing with whatever the situation is (or just not having a choice), due to how Tobs writes the MC. But the second someone on the forums says "you know actually the kitsune say all this shit but they're really the outsiders/barbarians hiding behind a veil of culture", Tobs jumps in with something like "finally someone noticed" and off he goes explaining how deep his characters are.

So there's a bit of a disconnect. If he knows his kitsune are not as holier-than-thou as he has written them, than why can't the player do something about that (and I'm just talking simple dialogue choices or something, not murderhoboing everyone). If Gweyr was actually wrong for choosing the easiest route for her - killing the cultist youth- and being unremorseful about that, why are our choices to her being a monster or not "No, you did what had to be done." and "Yes, but you did what had to be done so it's okay."

It just really annoys me that he writes this largely one-sided portrayal but outside of the game, strokes his ego to how complicated his work really was/is.

Cause power fantasy! Tobs wants your character to eat dick until you eventually prove yourself that your no longer some barabarian but a champion of the kitsune people. I get the reasoning how he's writing it but that leaves literally zero choice on the player. I just wanna back hand Kinu and tell her to stop acting like some artificial nice bitch to please everyone but can I do that? uh huh huh! None of the sas!......Yes Tobs......Kinu is the greatest thing ever conceived and you WILL worship the ground she walks on.....as well as watch your perfect daughter get fucked by a racist asshole! Have a nice day!

The shit he writes isn't even complicated or intelligent is the thing. He makes it seem like it is with all this useless flowery language, but in reality it's shallow enough for an average middle school student to grasp. It is incredibly obvious that the Kitsune are the assholes and that Gweyr could have handled the situation better.

In a vacuum, this would be fine if the player had agency or the characters in question were written in a compelling and multi-faceted way. But the thing is, TOBS does neither of those things. He doesn't allow the player to feel like they're truly in the game(which is the entire fucking point of the game) and vindicate themselves, yet he also doesn't even give you the opportunity to become invested in these scenarios because all of the characters in question are one-dimensional unapologetic dickheads.

Allow players to actually express their distaste with these situations instead of forcing the PC of our characters to be doormats. If not, actually create a reason to make me give a shit about this conflict in the first place.

Let your kitsune family actually give a shit about you and defend you from these other Kitsune dickheads. Introduce ways to actually raise our daughter so she doesn't become a spiteful cunt for no reason. Let the player say, "I don't give a shit about you viewing me as a barbarian, you're all pathetic outcasts that can't even be accepted in your own nation. You're all failures that have no right to judge anybody else." Allow me to actually comment how fucking psychopathic it is for Gweyr to feel nothing after killing CHILDREN. Make Gweyr actually torn up about what she did to those kids and have her punish herself by not leaving the Rift because she feels that guilty about what she did and not being there for her family.

And this is shit I come up off the top of my head. Yet he does none of this because he's so hyper focused on needlessly ginormous word counts and telling his own story for HIMSELF. I legit have no idea how Kitsune content is allowed in the game because it feels like it doesn't even remotely belong in it.

It's a shame too, because Kiyoko in the amulet was actually a strong start and could have developed into the world in a much more seamless and unobtrusive way. Kiyoko herself was even a missed opportunity. She could be a lot more emotional and mellow due to yknow, being stuck inside an alternate dimension for an astronomically long time from her view. Let the player help her through the trauma of that and allow her to be happy again, even if it's just platonic for female PCs. Let me form an actual bond with my wife that's birthed countless amounts of my children.

But no, let's write about how Kitsune culture is just too galaxy brained for the PC and will never truly be able to connect with their family. People love that, right?

God I really just can't hold back my dislike for TOBS holy shit. Honestly half-tempted to rewrite all of his garbage that's in the game and throw it up somewhere.

You and me both. I basically feel the same way as you. Tobs thinks you can't make your point across without decking someone in the snobs or putting them into the ground......Whatever happened to charisma/intelligent checks where you can legit play a game or VN using nothing your charisma and intelligence?

 

[TheVegnar]

The shit he writes isn't even complicated or intelligent is the thing. He makes it seem like it is with all this useless flowery language, but in reality it's shallow enough for an average middle school student to grasp. It is incredibly obvious that the Kitsune are the assholes and that Gweyr could have handled the situation better.

In a vacuum, this would be fine if the player had agency or the characters in question were written in a compelling and multi-faceted way. But the thing is, TOBS does neither of those things. He doesn't allow the player to feel like they're truly in the game(which is the entire fucking point of the game) and vindicate themselves, yet he also doesn't even give you the opportunity to become invested in these scenarios because all of the characters in question are one-dimensional unapologetic dickheads.

Allow players to actually express their distaste with these situations instead of forcing the PC of our characters to be doormats. If not, actually create a reason to make me give a shit about this conflict in the first place.

Let your kitsune family actually give a shit about you and defend you from these other Kitsune dickheads. Introduce ways to actually raise our daughter so she doesn't become a spiteful cunt for no reason. Let the player say, "I don't give a shit about you viewing me as a barbarian, you're all pathetic outcasts that can't even be accepted in your own nation. You're all failures that have no right to judge anybody else." Allow me to actually comment how fucking psychopathic it is for Gweyr to feel nothing after killing CHILDREN. Make Gweyr actually torn up about what she did to those kids and have her punish herself by not leaving the Rift because she feels that guilty about what she did and not being there for her family.

And this is shit I come up off the top of my head. Yet he does none of this because he's so hyper focused on needlessly ginormous word counts and telling his own story for HIMSELF. I legit have no idea how Kitsune content is allowed in the game because it feels like it doesn't even remotely belong in it.

It's a shame too, because Kiyoko in the amulet was actually a strong start and could have developed into the world in a much more seamless and unobtrusive way. Kiyoko herself was even a missed opportunity. She could be a lot more emotional and mellow due to yknow, being stuck inside an alternate dimension for an astronomically long time from her view. Let the player help her through the trauma of that and allow her to be happy again, even if it's just platonic for female PCs. Let me form an actual bond with my wife that's birthed countless amounts of my children.

But no, let's write about how Kitsune culture is just too galaxy brained for the PC and will never truly be able to connect with their family. People love that, right?

God I really just can't hold back my dislike for TOBS holy shit. Honestly half-tempted to rewrite all of his garbage that's in the game and throw it up somewhere.

Oh you don't have to worry much about KINU any more. Looks like there is a COC2 Mod work underway, of making her yours, or jelous love path of her mother or w/e. ;? Pretty sure it is going to fix all that bs also.

 

[NaturalEnclave]

I have to ask a rather weird question, but how much of hate towards Tobs is caused by serious issues with his writing for a type of game he writes for and how much of it is caused by a fact that you cannot bang your own daughter and people are mad about it?

 

[Tau_Iota]

I legit have no idea how Kitsune content is allowed in the game because it feels like it doesn't even remotely belong in it.

I 100% agree with everything you're saying, and you've got some good ideas there. But I want to focus on this right here. I actively avoided all Kitsune content before even knowing how bad it got because of how out of place it felt. They're just kind of... there. Like it legitimately feels like they're a different game grafted onto CoC2. And it's staggering because there's so many Kitsune. Like there's only one named goblin, and she isn't even sexable. They outnumber everyone but dog-morphs and bull/cow-morphs, but they're all localized in one area. At least in Khor'minos there's a variety of races so it isn't "Oh, another bullguy/gal." And even with them, they all look unique in some way. The Kitsune are just so samey. Guess that's what makes them cultured though