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Skandranon

Well-Known Member
Nov 28, 2016
1,548
3,689
I know I missed a lot but I don't feel like wracking my brain on this stuff, anybody else can add whatever they feel is missing. To me, the only devs I really have a problem with are those 3. The others are just victims of the leadership they're under, especially Wsan.
Wsan is part of the leadership of the game.
Savin, Tobs, and Wsan were basically the first three on the project, and from everything I've seen they're all basically in lock-step and consult together when it comes to the big policy decisions.

I know everyone here loves Wsans writing, but any decision or policy by the team that's been made that seems stupid or backwards - Wsan probably was one of the ones that helped make it.
 
Jun 1, 2017
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This is the first post I've ever made on this site, I barely (if ever) post anywhere but I was so intrigued I just had to ask.

Is there anyone here who's been around for a while in this thread? And if so, I'd like to know why exactly there is contention around the game's writers. I've given the conversation a cursive glance and don't fully understand it, so I'd greatly appreciate if someone experienced could outline why there's hate/animosity/annoyance with some of the writers.

Mainly in regards to Savin? Either way, I've "played" CoC2 for a decent amount of time but haven't touched it in a while, but I don't remember there being anything particularly egregious with the writing. Although I'm not a writer. I enjoyed Zo though.
i gotchu. i'll try to be as neutral as possible and format it so it's not a wall. i might not put everything but ill put what i can easily recall.
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other than that, most others don't have any notable traits or negatives i can think of at the moment. not saying they're not good or haven't done bad things but just mostly keep their heads down with work of varying levels of player satisfaction

edit: additionally to tobs, some of the kitsune content has come across as overly harsh towards japanese culture, ranging from critique to near or active discrimination instead of a celebration of it with various monster girls and boys which it appeared to be to most at first. much of the diplomacy, alienation and superiority complexes seem to stem from that instead of being solely character traits
 
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muschi26

Engaged Member
Jun 22, 2019
3,155
4,926
Popped up with tons of commissions of her character being impregnated by etheryn, seems to possibly be the reason there's been a push for etheryn's endgame to focus heavily on her impregnation of the mc or elthara, however it's conspiracy territory and all considered seems to be the most personable "pr manager" of the writers.
The problem with the Etheryn pregnancy is that Elthara is a character who is presented as monogamous first and foremost, with optional sharing. Then, the story comes around and forces you into sharing her with Etheryn if you either 1. aren’t into Etheryn yourself, and so likely don’t want to get pregnant by her; or 2. can’t get pregnant—so literally every single male character—, which encompasses a huge amount of the playerbase, many of whom aren’t into sharing. Moreover, Etheryn identifies as female, and even has interactions focused on transforming her body to be more feminine (increased hips and breasts), but for some reason she will not agree to getting a vagina instead of, or in addition to, her cock, which would allow her to get pregnant instead of forcing the PC into sharing content—again, out of nowhere.
 

jfmherokiller

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2020
1,181
1,669
Ironicly this game is technically easier to mod then TiTS because of how the code is laid out.

Also did Cait have some kind of TF thing where you could make her part Leothean or am I confusing TiTS and CoC2
 
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MoneyMan181

Active Member
Sep 6, 2019
822
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Wsan is part of the leadership of the game.
Savin, Tobs, and Wsan were basically the first three on the project, and from everything I've seen they're all basically in lock-step and consult together when it comes to the big policy decisions.

I know everyone here loves Wsans writing, but any decision or policy by the team that's been made that seems stupid or backwards - Wsan probably was one of the ones that helped make it.
I get that, but isn't Savin ultimately the leader of the whole thing? Regardless, I feel like he's still negatively influenced by them.
has shown up here multiple times and communicated, is respectable
Forgot the silly Cait "NTR" scene he wrote that seems biased towards his characters when compared to the "NTR" scenes where you're the one doing it. Not that I really care much about it, but I feel like it's worth mentioning since people obviously didn't like it when he posted he was doing that here. Funnily enough we haven't seen him since.
The problem with the Etheryn pregnancy is that Elthara is a character who is presented as monogamous first and foremost, with optional sharing. Then, the story comes around and forces you into sharing her with Etheryn if you either 1. aren’t into Etheryn yourself, and so likely don’t want to get pregnant by her; or 2. can’t get pregnant—so literally every single male character—, which encompasses a huge amount of the playerbase, many of whom aren’t into sharing. Moreover, Etheryn identifies as female, and even has interactions focused on transforming her body to be more feminine (increased hips and breasts), but for some reason she will not agree to getting a vagina instead of, or in addition to, her cock, which would allow her to get pregnant instead of forcing the PC into sharing content—again, out of nowhere.
Honestly the optional sharing stuff is really weird, too. Feel like it heavily sacrifices work that could've just gone into making her better and more fleshed-out rather than catering to fetish that is niche even within the playerbase.
 

ha.

New Member
Jul 12, 2021
3
9
This has been explained about 50 times throughout the thread, this is not the first this has been asked, nor will it be the last. I don't blame you though, F95's search option fucking sucks, and even then, how would one even search that as a topic? I've been here from close to the beginning and this is my personal opinion on the whole thing, though others will see it differently.

The answer is most people here like the game one way or the other. Most of the rants here are in good fun, exaggerated because it's fun to rant.
The main reason why it might look so vitriolic from the outside is simply that it's cause and effect. Fen forums, and savin's own discord are complete echo-chambers. So this thread is kind of the opposite by nature. The hate for the writers comes from the way they act if you ever see them in the forums or their DC, they're incredibly, incredibly toxic and insecure people. Many of them write shit just to spite their critics. Literally.

You can't criticize the writers in any way in their own turf, so we kinda take it a bit far here. Savin generally gets shit on for being a terrible, terrible manager and leader (and also cuck accusations, and for writing his favored character into literally every scene ever), Tobs gets shit on for being a complete narcissist and writing entire shitty novels in a porn game because he just can't get his shit read otherwise, Bubbles is a spaz, and so on and so forth. All the writers are mostly dicks in their day to day demeanour, so when someone wants to rant, there's an endless source. Also a lotta the people here prefer CoC 1, though I'm of the belief that most of us are addled by nostalgia in regards to that.

Used to be that this place was less hateful and more rant-y in a fun kind of way, but over time people who truly hate SavCo with a burning passion have actually made this place more like the stereotype that it's known for, that we just mindlessly hate.

Either way, everyone here is passionate in some way about the game, and even those who do nothing but shit on it only do so because they care. I myself love the game, it's unique, but the writers are complete assholes and dregs of society, and there's a lot to be improved. Frankly, even with all its vitriol, this is still the best place to discuss CoC2, because people aren't so utterly afraid, and contrary to what it might seem, we do like (parts) of the game.
Thanks a lot for clarifying for me. Have a good one :D

Thanks to Moneyman and undyingrevenant too. Didn't notice it before I posted this.
 
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Wrynn13

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2018
1,013
3,680
Fanfic/pics of self insert character getting knocked up by Etheryn aside (Which seems pretty odd for a self identified lesbian, but I have a male character running around impregnating anything he can so who am I to judge?) I still think the anti dedicking is more a Savin salt mining decision than one Alypia made on her own as he made several comments about it before she joined the team. And he's an ass... Still I wish she had gotten to do her own companion instead of picking up Savin's trash.
 
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ha.

New Member
Jul 12, 2021
3
9
However, after reading all these testimonials it strikes me as exceptionally odd that someone can become so narcissistic and egocentric over their writing, at least from a personal perspective. I've dabbled in writing over the years and am hopelessly unaware of how one can come to obsess over their own work in this manner.

Man, the shit I've written isn't good by any means, but if someone offers me genuine criticism I'm not going to turn it down and scream hysterics because of it.
 

EmPockets998

New Member
Jul 7, 2017
6
3
i gotchu. i'll try to be as neutral as possible and format it so it's not a wall. i might not put everything but ill put what i can easily recall.
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other than that, most others don't have any notable traits or negatives i can think of at the moment. not saying they're not good or haven't done bad things but just mostly keep their heads down with work of varying levels of player satisfaction

edit: additionally to tobs, some of the kitsune content has come across as overly harsh towards japanese culture, ranging from critique to near or active discrimination instead of a celebration of it with various monster girls and boys which it appeared to be to most at first. much of the diplomacy, alienation and superiority complexes seem to stem from that instead of being solely character traits
Accurate but you forgot to include Jstar, author of devoted Waifu Drifta
 
Jan 18, 2018
92
971
Wsan is part of the leadership of the game.
Savin, Tobs, and Wsan were basically the first three on the project, and from everything I've seen they're all basically in lock-step and consult together when it comes to the big policy decisions.

I know everyone here loves Wsans writing, but any decision or policy by the team that's been made that seems stupid or backwards - Wsan probably was one of the ones that helped make it.
I agree to an extent. Wsan's my favourite writer by a large margin, not that there's much competition, but it does feel like people excuse him a lot because of his writing. He's happy to say the same dismissive stuff about fans/criticism as the rest of the team, just tactfully. Putting Wsan or even Tobs on the level with Savin isn't fair though, and I'm not sure how they're "lock-step" when the Brienne-Hobgoblin drama exists, unless that was Wsan being deceitful. Savin has the final word and is supposed to review submissions, so he's the one responsible for the game's cohesion and rules/policies being enforced.

Most of their policies aren't enforced evenly, e.g. Savin has 3 companions for some reason. Community submissions will be rejected for things that are unbearably common in staff pieces, like dictating how the PC feels about something or sitting through a novel of exposition with no interaction and no erotic content, which are SKoW and Tobs cornerstones respectively. The fact that Drifa was forced to 50,000~ words and multiple sex scenes, while Gweyrquest ran many more words with barely one scene, which was NPCxNPC, is ridiculously inconsistent.
Imma just yeet this in here as it does have the latest version. (BTW I have nothing to do with this folder, I just have it saved to check for the latest versions and it's been shared here many times.)
CoC2 Mega Folder
Yea, that's my folder. I post the updates here, which you can easily find by searching 0.5.17 Patch Notes for example. I may be late next update though, depending on when it is.
 
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Biostar

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2017
1,194
5,745
So would you say that Quin (ignoring his personality) would be the your upper limit when it comes to big botty twinks?
Yes, with the addendum that I'm talking about his old design. His new one takes him right out of my strike zone.
 

Skandranon

Well-Known Member
Nov 28, 2016
1,548
3,689
Putting Wsan or even Tobs on the level with Savin isn't fair though, and I'm not sure how they're "lock-step" when the Brienne-Hobgoblin drama exists, unless that was Wsan being deceitful. Savin has the final word and is supposed to review submissions, so he's the one responsible for the game's cohesion and rules/policies being enforced.
I dont think there was any actual drama. I think it's just a case of people hopping on tiny things and blowing them out of proportion.

Pretty sure the while thing was Wsan just not actually reading the scene until someone told him about it (because they often don't read each other's work) amd Tobs...being Tobs and writing something out of tone with the rest of the game, as he does.

The whole conspiracy theory where Savin and Tobs snuck something into the game to spite Wsan is...pretty much just that.
 
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Jan 18, 2018
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I dont think there was any actual drama. I think it's just a case of people hopping on tiny things and blowing them out of proportion.
Pretty sure the while thing was Wsan just not actually reading the scene until someone told him about it (because they often don't read each other's work) amd Tobs...being Tobs and writing something out of tone with the rest of the game, as he does.
The whole conspiracy theory where Savin and Tobs snuck something into the game to spite Wsan is...pretty much just that.
There was definitely drama, since it resulted in Wsan saying he'd tighten control over his content. Now whether there was anything sneaky, I've no clue. Tobs does love his bizarre tone content though.

I meant it as an example that the leadership clearly isn't in sync when they don't even read each other's submissions, even for their companion characters, and aren't pleased if they do read the submissions.
 

Skandranon

Well-Known Member
Nov 28, 2016
1,548
3,689
There was definitely drama, since it resulted in Wsan saying he'd tighten control over his content. Now whether there was anything sneaky, I've no clue. Tobs does love his bizarre tone content though.
Eh, might be just a difference of opinion on what constitutes "drama".

I meant it as an example that the leadership clearly isn't in sync when they don't even read each other's submissions, even for their companion characters, and aren't pleased if they do read the submissions.
Well, I said "on the big policy decisions" specifically. They pretty much always back each other on that stuff.
 
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jfmherokiller

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2020
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Eh, might be just a difference of opinion on what constitutes "drama".



Well, I said "on the big policy decisions" specifically. They pretty much always back each other on that stuff.
so i looked at your unoffical list in your sig and saw:

  • Oma
    • Female genie character by B
    • Grants wishes
    • Can transform into anything

  • Male Kitsune (Tetsuya)
    • Jstar
    • Husbando; basically male Kiyoko
this interests me as well as the additional lyric content but as far as my own datamining can come up with I dont see anything about it.
 
Jan 18, 2018
92
971
Well, I said "on the big policy decisions" specifically. They pretty much always back each other on that stuff.
That's fair, your 2nd paragraph made me think you also meant in general, but Wsan did back cutting Berwyn as a companion which was a big choice.

The original point was how the leadership affects the writers, and in general, I'd argue Savin has by far the most effect as the project lead, whereas Wsan&SKoW have very little, and Tobs has a bit as he's set a few rules, reviews some submissions, and brawls on the forum occasionally.
 
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Quintilus

Engaged Member
Aug 8, 2020
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This is a smut game with an extremely light tone and then it suddenly goes in-depth about killing children.
I mean, yes.....and its a problem IMO. Im about "extremely light tone" part. There are already so much 'lightly toned' porn games that I doubt there are exist penis/vagina that are able to withstand masturbation marathon with all of them in the line.
There are no something that allows this game to stand out, even as a "extremely light tone" game...well except probably "ITS A COC1 SUCESSOR!!!11111 HYPE!!!!!!111111111"

It's the same thing as a kid's show start having its characters curse and beat the shit out of each other.
Happy tree friends is a relatively good cartoon.

Wish this game had some competition so I could write for them rather than this shitshow
Like subscribe comment to my patreon and well make it. But there are will be obligatory GRIMDARK
 
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Orphanus

Well-Known Member
Oct 25, 2019
1,297
2,094
However, after reading all these testimonials it strikes me as exceptionally odd that someone can become so narcissistic and egocentric over their writing, at least from a personal perspective. I've dabbled in writing over the years and am hopelessly unaware of how one can come to obsess over their own work in this manner.

Man, the shit I've written isn't good by any means, but if someone offers me genuine criticism I'm not going to turn it down and scream hysterics because of it.
To try and answer that question - as well as give a bit of perspective on why I am so negative about not the game as much as the lead writers - the problem stems from the Fenoxo Forums, I believe. As you maybe know Fenoxo (or Fen) is the guy who started it all back in the day with CoC 1 and then TiTS, basically a bit of a pioneer since CoC 1 arguably is the foundation of many games that try to create the lewd equivalent of a text based RPG of old. For obvious reasons he acquired quite the following, and since Savin has been on board since the early days as well he benefited a lot from the loyalty and admiration of Fen's fanbase.
I think for good reasons, Savin is a really good writer & a great writer of smut as well, so it is by no means that the man doesn't have talent or experience or just in general is clueless, quite the opposite. The Observer, too, has been with them for quite a long time & started out as definitely promising, with a genuine, appealing writing style and a certain knack for visualizing things through his choice of words.

The problems, in my eyes, began when Fen decided that he wouldn't be the lead of yet another project (even though it would have been the sequel to his original gem) because a. he had a lot to do with TiTS and b. had grown increasingly tired of writing smut over the years, therefore decided to be more of a hindrance for the sequel & also just not up to write things matching the standards of quality he had set for his games.
Making Savin the lead seemed pretty logical at that point in time & at first things worked out pretty well. The issues began to rose when TOBS was given free reign over whatever he wrote (as was Wsan, but Wsan at least writes stuff fitting for a CoC sequel, with choices to make and player control over their own character) and, when he began to loose his mind and create his completely own story inside the story (that then also did not at all connect with the rest of the game, only by forced interactions with basically random NPCs to simply try and justify that nonsense). Unsurprisingly TOBS was met with quite a bit of criticism by the players, and that's where things went down the drain.

See, since the Forums had existed for quite a while, and people really liked the games as well as the minds behind them, it turned out that the constant praise had inflated The Observer's ego to a point where he took any form of dislike of his - purposely derisive - content as a personal attack. To the point where he resorted to consciously write stuff he knew a vast majority would dislike, and he left no room for doubts that he did it just to piss people off. By that he then ruined his own content, causing basically 90% of the players to turn on him and his content.

That's where Savin made the fatal mistake of thinking that it was his job to protect his writers from negative feedback instead of diving into the issues and look for the root of the problems. I don't know if he actually thought it came out of basically nowhere & that TOBS was getting heat for no reason, or if he, deep down, knew who was at fault and just couldn't tell his old friend to get his act together. From there on it became basically impossible to voice criticism on the forums, either a bunch of zombie fans jumped anyone trying to voice his thoughts (even if it was in a polite manner and without going after any individual writer) and just claimed that the game was without any flaws or room for improvement, further cementing the by then pretty delusional impression of the lead writers that they are (as I wrote before) something like the Tolkiens and Martins of smut, or Savin himself (or guys like TOBS) deleted the criticism.

Nowadays there are, as others explained here before, clear double standards for what the lead writers do & what the other people can do, arbitrary rejection of content, a very clear maliciousness towards the players in general, with some of the writers writing stuff just because a majority of people hate it, the attempt to make the player character as irrelevant and weak as possible etc. pp.

It's actually just kinda pathetic and extremely childish, the typical product of people closing themselves in a bubble just to never hear anything negative about their work.
 
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