Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.16] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[A Burning Conscience]

I found the recent edition of so-called "roadmap" from Savin.
View attachment 4496423

Three quarters done, when they have a whole Fracking, other country they'd need to make in this plan!

Tychris!? When it has taken them years to not even come close to finishing Khor'minos.

Unless what he means by "Optional" is that it is optional that they make it. But then, when you're the dev team, making the game in itself is entirely optional.

Why are only 7 out of 18 sections of this game not listed as optional content? I understand this is from 2023, but this was the roadmap of the lead designer, and he wanted to have less than half of the game be tied in to the actual story. And before someone comes in with "The Witcher has side-quests" we're not talking side content, we're talking game regions! Maps! 11 entire sections of the game world that are entirely disconnected from the core story, branded as optional, meaning that 61.2% of the game does not help reach the ending.

Madness.

 

[daboss456]

Why are only 7 out of 18 sections of this game not listed as optional content? I understand this is from 2023, but this was the roadmap of the lead designer, and he wanted to have less than half of the game be tied in to the actual story. And before someone comes in with "The Witcher has side-quests" we're not talking side content, we're talking game regions! Maps! 11 entire sections of the game world that are entirely disconnected from the core story, branded as optional, meaning that 61.2% of the game does not help reach the ending.

Madness.

I actually don't see the problem with that. In fact I would say that's how an open world sandbox should be. Just look at CoC1 in which only 5 locations are actually necessary to complete the main quest. You couldn't really even round out a complete story if you didn't do any side content. It's the same case with nearly all open world RPGs like The Witcher, The Elder Scrolls etc. That content just needs to be good enough to stand on it's own and make you want to explore the world to look for it.

The thing that makes the side content in CoC2 shitty is that your pretty much on rails throughout the whole of it. They don't give you any room to actually role play, if you choose to do any of the side content the writer of said content takes that as permission to take control of the character in that moment and decide exactly how they're going to engage with it and any npcs involved. Which is what necessitates the constant head-canoning of events.

 

[A Burning Conscience]

Snip

I might agree with the percentages, if what we were talking about were the "Roads" you would travel down, to reach the important aspects of the game.

But we're not. Right now, out of three exits from the starting location, 1 of those is road to no-where, 1 you only need to go half way, and only the third is relevant to this map of the plot.

We're not talking road-side attractions (IE, your side quests, thank you, by the way, for sighting the Witcher when it was the example I used as the "Don't get on my back about this"), we're talking the devs making roads, with no end points.

Why aren't story beats at the end of each of the three branches? Hell, why aren't even side-beats, like companion quests, at the end of these paths? Why does Cait's quest (bare with, I know she's repugnant), only require you to dip your toe into Harvest valley, instead of send you on a journey to go and see the horse-folk, and on the way you could deviate to encounter Zo, Pupperidge, and the centaurs? Because at the moment, you won't encounter any of those if you go South to complete the only quest which is tangentially story relevant, because it's just a sharp west turn, and you're done.

Precious dev time has gone on making roads to no-where, instead of having a steady goal of getting to the end, and making the journey fun along with way. Think about an open world game, like Witcher 1/3, they make you go into the open environments as part of the main quest, and then fill them with distractions for you to indulge in if you like. This design, is just making distractions from the main story, that do not tie in at all.

 

[PixelLewd]

Prologue released on april the first of 2018. So 7 years total if we count 2025.
The sheer amount of irony in this particular line:

Prologue released on april the first of 2018.

april the first

Well shit, slap my ass and call me Sally, this has all been one elaborate fucking April Fools joke being run, and all of us are the goddamned victim dressed in clown makeup

 

[daboss456]

I might agree with the percentages, if what we were talking about were the "Roads" you would travel down, to reach the important aspects of the game.

But we're not. Right now, out of three exits from the starting location, 1 of those is road to no-where, 1 you only need to go half way, and only the third is relevant to this map of the plot.

We're not talking road-side attractions (IE, your side quests, thank you, by the way, for sighting the Witcher when it was the example I used as the "Don't get on my back about this"), we're talking the devs making roads, with no end points.

(You're welcome) I don't see how that's much of a distinction though. Again the content there just needs to be good enough to stand on it's own. Let's try some different examples since we're talking about "maps". Elden Ring is a game has 13 different regions to explore in the base game and you only need to go to 4 of them to beat it, Breath of the wild is one where you can go straight to the final boss without exploring any of the map. I know that these are very different(and much better) games but the principles of exploration and side content is still the same. Not every area or side content needs to be critcal to the main quest as long as they are interesting and can give some reward.

 

[Tsubuhaza]

Don't become bitter and twisted like the rest of us old ghosts of a game long past.

Wouldn't say bitterness, just vague amusement.

Well shit, slap my ass and call me Sally, this has all been one elaborate fucking April Fools joke being run, and all of us are the goddamned victim dressed in clown makeup

That'd take too much talent from certain folks.

 

[Jooj Cena]

Well shit, slap my ass and call me Sally, this has all been one elaborate fucking April Fools joke being run, and all of us are the goddamned victim dressed in clown makeup

Any day now they'll do the big reveal "Guys guys the game was finished like 3 years ago lmao, we done with the prank, here you go, go play it" we just have to wait bout a week or so for the drop

 

[A Burning Conscience]

Snip

Breath of the Wild is because of physics exploits and AI jank, and you know it. The intended path takes you to all regions of the map, with side content you will discover on the way, or will be encouraged to seek out while you are in the area.
As for Elden Ring, it's a Fromsoft game, they're... weird. Yes the majority of content is optional; because you're encouraged to beat the game as weak as you can. I have seen very few games that have Fromsoft levels of contempt for a player's wish to get stronger and explore content.
To stick with Zelda, Windwaker, this would be more like if you only had to go to one other island, which had all the dungeons on it, and everywhere else was Tingle.

 

[daboss456]

Breath of the Wild is because of physics exploits and AI jank, and you know it. The intended path takes you to all regions of the map, with side content you will discover on the way, or will be encouraged to seek out while you are in the area.

What? No it's not, it was touted at the games launch that you could go staight to the final boss right from the beginning by design.

As for Elden Ring, it's a Fromsoft game, they're... weird. Yes the majority of content is optional; because you're encouraged to beat the game as weak as you can. I have seen very few games that have Fromsoft levels of contempt for a player's wish to get stronger and explore content.

That is straight up not true and I honestly can't even begin to guess how you came to this conclusion.

To stick with Zelda, Windwaker, this would be more like if you only had to go to one other island, which had all the dungeons on it, and everywhere else was Tingle.

Wind Waker just like every other 3d zelda had lots optional content and areas that had nothing to do with the story or main quest.

 

[Tsubuhaza]

I'm fine with more optional content than the actual story itself though you do need to have at least some intent to make sure you're not devoting too much for the side and ignoring the actual thing itself. Granted CoC2 isn't in the level of the major games out there and whatnot but very few of those are strictly tied to the story in a solid manner, the only one that comes to mind is Sifu and even then I haven't played that.

Plus, for a porn game, the side content is tied well enough to what the game exists for... quality on that regard notwithstanding.

I also do agree that it takes its sweet ass time actively pursuing the finish though. Should really be wrapping up before it hits 10 years.

 

[John Jonner]

The main story is literally the most important part of any game it's supposed to keep your interest and drive the player to keep going to see the conclusion while the optional stuff is mainly used to encourage exploration and provide rewards like more lore, items, companions, quests that since this game likes to present itself like your actions have consequences could affect the outcome of how the story ends but considering none of the developers like corruption that ain't gonna happen anytime soon. But what I'm try to get at is that I'm not expecting like a triple A game here but with a main story this bare bones after what like 8 or 9 years of development is just a little ridiculous

I don't necessarily agree with the notion that the main story is the most important part of any game. In a lot of sandbox RPGs the main story sits on the backburner to doing main stuff pretty often. This is a pretty main tenant of bethesda games, for instance. Not to say that they don't get criticized for having bad main stories, they do. Just that a game can be successful with a fairly barebones main story meant to push you around the world to do optional stuff. I personally don't care at all about CoC2's main story. I'm here to plap waifus and the main story is simply a vehicle to unlock more waifus to plap

 

[dolosolo]

main story sits on the backburner to doing main stuff pretty often.

only stories that are good enough to stick in your mind get away w doing that.

I personally don't care at all about CoC2's main story. I'm here to plap waifus and the main story is simply a vehicle to unlock more waifus to plap

would be cool if side stuff affected msq,

 

[Daddums]

would be cool if side stuff affected msq,

Maybe with a competent management, yeah. As it stands, though, the side quests stuff are - as was mentioned - where champions go to lose their freaking mind. It is an abyss, a personal playground for whatever writer gets to write their blatant fetish, character consistency be damned. These guys can barely handle parsers, you think they can keep track of that schizophrenic writing?

 

[Alterism]

Wind Waker just like every other 3d zelda had lots optional content and areas that had nothing to do with the story or main quest.

To this day I still don't know how I feel about them squishing the tri-force hunt. Which is a strange state to be in, being unable to look inside and analyze if you liked something or not and for what reason.

The thing that makes the side content in CoC2 shitty is that your pretty much on rails throughout the whole of it.

There's a lot of things that make the side content a drag to experience and it's combined with the general gameplay flow to get to the content you want to see.

It's hard to find the motivation to critique such an old problem when it's an obvious one that has had the same things said by multiple different people in CoC2's own gripes topic on the official forum. This critiscism, as we all can see, was thoroughly ignored. Things like their being too many combat encounters and there being too many random events that all contain things you've already seen before long after it's worn out it's welcome requiring multiple clicks just to get back to getting to the things you want to experience are all still here and in good health.

It's like an attempt at gameplay-story integration or maybe an attempt at adding character to characters. But, it just adds tediums. When you compare random events to things like party dialogue in other games where each interaction is unique, or things like skits in the Tales of series where you get the ability to opt-into it, it's clear that these other products took player engagement and enjoyment into consideration. Praise that can't be levied to CoC2.

Which conveniently is also why even the thought of a second run through is anathema to me. CoC2 is like playing a game again where the skip button triggers a loading scene and only skips one piece of dialogue at a time.

 

[Tsubuhaza]

Things like their being too many combat encounters

You know the funny thing about that particular problem?

If they removed the level cap, the high encounter rate would be acceptable enough - because you're raising your guy's level continuously and not just taking part on them to actively fuck who you beat if you feel like it. Like it gives another point to why it's fine to face enemies so often.

 

[Alterism]

You know the funny thing about that particular problem?

If they removed the level cap, the high encounter rate would be acceptable enough - because you're raising your guy's level continuously and not just taking part on them to actively fuck who you beat if you feel like it. Like it gives another point to why it's fine to face enemies so often.

I've thought about it from a content perspective. Like if the intent is that you see everything then you'd need an encounter rate that's that high.
But, the issues with that line of reasoning is that there wouldn't be so many one-time only scenes with no replay.

And for the gameplay to be engaging the combat encounters would have to be novel or unique and they aren't.
Netwise you're still cycling randomly to get to the NPC's you want. But, in the CoC1 there were far less obstructions and exploration had you to at most a a quarter of a dozen fights before you were completely done with the zone.... Phylla withstanding.

 

[axelrot]

with save edit what do i have to change to have Ahmri corrupted ?

 

[FurrBat]

you're still cycling randomly to get to the NPC's you want

This hurts me so much because in their genius idea they decided to make defeat scenes get chosen at random if you qualify for multiple, so even when you finally 'fight' your enemy you now have to roll dice to try and get the scene you want, if you dont the loop starts back again.

Honestly I fucking miss some coc1 qol things like your char recognizing the tentacle beast tracks and just avoiding this encounter. They could easily make similar thing in here like fight an enemy 20 times and you now know the signs of their encounter and can choose not to engage, but that would mean more work and be actually useful so no bueno i guess.

 

[TalRash4]

Can somebody tell, at what point is the hatching of a Drider Princess determined? When eggs are implanted or when hatching begins?

 

[Azriel Satan]

Can somebody tell, at what point is the hatching of a Drider Princess determined? When eggs are implanted or when hatching begins?

I was not aware this was even a feature (it doesn't seem to show up anywhere other than the birth scenes); anyway, for your question, it's on implantation, 10% chance. It tracks on Cait, too, but she lacks any variant for it in her scenes.