Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.16] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Wrynn13]

Did Fenoxo have any similar Crew related drama/issues?

The only thing I remember was the epic fit Savin threw over the Helspawn debalce. Seems like Fen did a much better job at least keeping things quiet. Then again Fen also bailed on the game to start over with TITS so I'm sure there was stuff going on that wasn't public.

 

[Wrynn13]

Savin was also extremely toxic on the Fenoxo mod forum, but that was after Fen had started TITS and people like Kitteh were left to clean up what was left of CoC1.

 

[MoneyMan181]

The big thing you guys are missing is that even if BubbleLord, Gardeford, or whoever else you hate hardly ever writes anything, they're still there. Even if it's only to deliver canned "I'm working on it" responses, they're still within reach and they can still at least claim to be producing content. Hugs vanished entirely, he was not able to be reached at all during his cool-off periods, and couldn't even bring himself to fire out a "I'm still working on X" when it was asked of him. I struggle with mental illness too, but even I know that life doesn't wait for you when you shut down. If you make a commitment to either write something or at least maintain contact when you're not able to write and you fail to keep that commitment, there will obviously be consequences.

Why you think I hate somebody I have never even interacted with and don't know anything about is beyond me. I couldn't give less of a fuck about Gardeford, Bubs, or any other writer on the team except for Wsan.

This also makes no sense even from your point of view. There is literally 0 difference between saying you're working on something or not saying anything in this situation. Why would claiming to be creating content even matter when that content is not being released?

But OK, I'll admit Hugs could've handled the situation better. However, I have to ask: Why did Savin feel the need to drop the fucking nuclear bomb that is booting out the writer to a companion? Unless Hugs was a CONSTANT problem child that was fucking things up a lot, I see no reason to boot him over something as ultimately trivial as going radio silent for a few months at time. Because again, that doesn't mean shit when his companion still has more content than other ones currently in the game. There is absolutely 0 reason for something this drastic unless Berwyn was SEVERELY behind in terms of content and they had to catch him up to speed. Which we all know he wasn't, so I see absolutely zero reason to kick him.

Seriously this is the weakest justification for dev fuckery I've seen.

If you're baking a big ass cake, and I offer to give you the eggs, and then I hand you one egg and then sever all contact with you for a while, are you going to sit there and hope that I eventually come back with the rest of the eggs you need, or are you going to get the eggs elsewhere so that you can actually continue baking the cake?

This analogy is... how about I just make some bullet points and keep going?

• This cake doesn't have a time limit for its creation.
• Other people have given me less ingredients while promising them so why would I care about the egg guy this much?
• If the cake is not in a rush to be made(which this cake certainly isn't), then yeah I could stand to wait a bit.
• Instead of someone else getting regular eggs, this new person gave me half the eggs I needed and they were all lizard eggs.
• The cake can continue to be baked without the eggs.
• I would warn you to give me the eggs faster before deciding on another egg guy.
• I think I would have a sense of camaraderie with you after baking this cake together for so long. I would really try and keep you on as the egg guy if I could since it would suck to see you go.
• Even if you do randomly decide to stop giving me eggs, I could just go ask someone else to get the rest of the eggs I need then. Why go out of my way to get rid of my only egg guy?

 

[Meblue]

It's interesting to me to compare the behind the scenes on this game, to SPNATI

What the hell is SPNATI?

 

[BigSaltDeluxe]

Strip Poker Night at the Inventory. It's focused on the interactions between characters that anyone can write for. If a character hasn't been updated in a while, and someone is interested, they can ask and start working on the that character. 9I'm not sure of the specifics of working because I haven't tried my hand at it.)

Point being, everyone in the SPNATI community works together, instead of whatever the hell this is shaping up to be.

 

[Jötunn123]

That would work If it had started like that, but not when so many ego filled authors run the development.

 

[zwagon]

Did Fenoxo have any similar Crew related drama/issues?

Mostly off topic for this thread so not worth getting into it much, but fen has shown himself to be an asshole multiple times in the past. One incident that stands out is fen implementing the corrupt farm path after divorcing his ex-wife. Whitney was his ex-wife's fursona or something and until that divorce was never supposed to be sexable. Whether or not their divorce was bad, fen doing that to his ex-wife's fursona assumedly for revenge gives you an idea on what kind of person he is.

So, yeah, COC2 comes from a long line of people being toxic and shitty to others.

 

[CratorH8er]

Why you think I hate somebody I have never even interacted with and don't know anything about is beyond me. I couldn't give less of a fuck about Gardeford, Bubs, or any other writer on the team except for Wsan.

This also makes no sense even from your point of view. There is literally 0 difference between saying you're working on something or not saying anything in this situation. Why would claiming to be creating content even matter when that content is not being released?

But OK, I'll admit Hugs could've handled the situation better. However, I have to ask: Why did Savin feel the need to drop the fucking nuclear bomb that is booting out the writer to a companion? Unless Hugs was a CONSTANT problem child that was fucking things up a lot, I see no reason to boot him over something as ultimately trivial as going radio silent for a few months at time. Because again, that doesn't mean shit when his companion still has more content than other ones currently in the game. There is absolutely 0 reason for something this drastic unless Berwyn was SEVERELY behind in terms of content and they had to catch him up to speed. Which we all know he wasn't, so I see absolutely zero reason to kick him.

Seriously this is the weakest justification for dev fuckery I've seen.

The difference is communication. Maybe you've never worked on a group project or collaboration of any kind before, but when you're depending on someone to do something and they go radio silent without doing it, it becomes a pretty big issue, whereas if you're depending on someone to do something and they make it clear that it's still being worked on, you'll at least have the expectation that they'll still deliver on what is required of them eventually.

Gardeford went on to say that Hugs had some anger issues and was not the easiest person to work with, so it's likely that him going radio silent was one of several issues that contributed to being ousted. If you believe him or not is up to you, he's the only one on the team who's been up front about the situation publicly.

 

[Jötunn123]

Some time anger problems are issues but there also those that are more passive aggressive in their behaviour instead. When I worked on school group projects, I actually preferred those that showed anger rather than being passive aggressive, you can actually understand someone that is angry, hard to figure out passive aggression until the end, at which it's often too late.

 

[Evizzy89]

Mostly off topic for this thread so not worth getting into it much, but fen has shown himself to be an asshole multiple times in the past. One incident that stands out is fen implementing the corrupt farm path after divorcing his ex-wife. Whitney was his ex-wife's fursona or something and until that divorce was never supposed to be sexable. Whether or not their divorce was bad, fen doing that to his ex-wife's fursona assumedly for revenge gives you an idea on what kind of person he is.

So, yeah, COC2 comes from a long line of people being toxic and shitty to others.

but i thought savin was the cuck, or are they both cucks

 

[Jötunn123]

Spending years working on a hentai furry game that was mostly funded by donations. I'm not trying to be hypocritical or anything, but it doesn't seem like something that his wife might have enjoyed.

Just a silly guess though, it's possible that she was fine with it and something else happened between them.

 

[VeryMeta]

It's amazing how one of the key takeaways from the CoC2 development cycle seems to be about the importance of something as 'elementary' as communication, both in terms of inter-dev/writer communications and communications between devs/writers and the audience. I know WSan has contended that if the devs hadn't just dropped the "Berry is fucking dead" as a done deal the drama would have been even worse, but I simply don't believe that. For example, even writing an apologetic blogpost talking about how the B Berry project wasn't working (shortly after it became internally apparent that that was the case) would have softened the blow and given Berry enjoyers some time to adjust to the unfortunate new reality.

Similarly, I've written in the past about my issues with the TOBS writing tone, specifically how it clashes so so much with the VAST majority of the other content available for CoC2. This discrepancy would be either resolved or if not resolved, mitigated, by actually having the writers talk to each other about what they wanted to write, what themes they wanted their characters, and the game as a whole, to have, and basically just trying to create an actually coherent product rather than a strange amalgamation of a bunch of very distinct and different ideas and styles.

 

[undyingrevenant]

I really hope eventually they start building on what they have instead of more one shot npcs. Especially weird with the random "no bars" comments tobs made when their current design is closer to "a bar every square". They're labeling too many characters "complete" too early and adding in stuff like "well we want a random futa with a harem" "who is she" "a futa with a harem duh". It'd be nice to have fewer characters with more content and personality, and if they're not interesting enough to continue writing for them they probably shouldn't have been made in the first place. If you want the "it's a smut game bro" shield then give characters more positions or additional kinks. I mean I'd assume theyll add more "eventuallyTM" for some but you've got stuff like kinus entire life story while kiyoko fades into the background and taldahs stares off into the void

 

[LandBeach]

The difference is communication. Maybe you've never worked on a group project or collaboration of any kind before, but when you're depending on someone to do something and they go radio silent without doing it, it becomes a pretty big issue, whereas if you're depending on someone to do something and they make it clear that it's still being worked on, you'll at least have the expectation that they'll still deliver on what is required of them eventually.

Gardeford went on to say that Hugs had some anger issues and was not the easiest person to work with, so it's likely that him going radio silent was one of several issues that contributed to being ousted. If you believe him or not is up to you, he's the only one on the team who's been up front about the situation publicly.

This game's communication in general is terrible though.

Also, does Savin have his dnd thing or whatever still going on?

 

[Wrynn13]

Mostly off topic for this thread so not worth getting into it much, but fen has shown himself to be an asshole multiple times in the past. One incident that stands out is fen implementing the corrupt farm path after divorcing his ex-wife. Whitney was his ex-wife's fursona or something and until that divorce was never supposed to be sexable. Whether or not their divorce was bad, fen doing that to his ex-wife's fursona assumedly for revenge gives you an idea on what kind of person he is.

So, yeah, COC2 comes from a long line of people being toxic and shitty to others.

I missed or forgot that one but sadly am not at all surprised by it.

 

[Shiro15]

dont forget about the budget!
theres been AAA games with smaller budgets than CoC2 has, and with less "developers" too
jus sayin ;O

edit: anyone whos been here a long time i am curious what coc2s starting budget was from gofundme, ive heard variances from 200k to 400k anyone who knows enlighten me?

Further insight, Undertales was made with 50K. Made by one person. Now I know there is not as much writing in Undertales, but Toby Fox did all of the music, writing and programing himself. I think only two characters were designed by Temmie. It was the Spider chick and Temmie village. Finished development in roughly 2-3 years (32months if you want to be exact). So, what is the excuse for this game, that is mostly dialogue focused, has multiple writers and artist. Plus the commission writers. Programmers. And even if you low-ball the amount of money( lets say they only got 100k) they are still making a game with about 2x the budget of undertales. (This is also ignoring the donations they get from streams and steam sales.) If they really got 200k from their gofund me that's 4x. There is no excuse for this game being in the state that it is. This goes beyond incompetence and laziness.

Skull Girls- was made for 200k. 8 hand drawn sprites, with hand drawn animation, music and fully voiced. Miss information on my part.

 

[MoneyMan181]

The difference is communication. Maybe you've never worked on a group project or collaboration of any kind before, but when you're depending on someone to do something and they go radio silent without doing it, it becomes a pretty big issue, whereas if you're depending on someone to do something and they make it clear that it's still being worked on, you'll at least have the expectation that they'll still deliver on what is required of them eventually.

Gardeford went on to say that Hugs had some anger issues and was not the easiest person to work with, so it's likely that him going radio silent was one of several issues that contributed to being ousted. If you believe him or not is up to you, he's the only one on the team who's been up front about the situation publicly.

Regardless of how important you think communication is, Berwyn had just as much, if not more content than other companions, and was not in desperate need of updating. There is no reason to kick Hugs off writing his companion unless he was behind in terms of content. I doubt Savin even warned him to get his shit together or else someone else would take over Berwyn. And it's not even like these devs actually work together very much so I don't see how cohesion is a big deal either.

I also made a bunch of other points in my previous post you just ignored but whatever.

 

[A Burning Conscience]

Regardless of how important you think communication is, Berwyn had just as much, if not more content than other companions...

Looking at Agni and her all of three sex options and no interactions save generic "Oh and she's there too."
And she's the one that B is supposedly so busy with he couldn't take over Berwyn for.

 

[Skandranon]

You must be registered to see the links

Skullgirls was made for 1.7 million dollars, and that was with some of the staff operating on reduced budgets for their salary and a team that was built from previous companies who had worked on previous games.

Each individual character ran about 200k.

Also, this game as far as I know never ran any kind of GoFundMe at all. TiTs did on Offbeatr.

 

[undyingrevenant]

It's one thing to have ocs or characters you like a lot you want to push but it's odd they care so little about fans reactions. Like "ok why don't people like this character so commonly, is there something I could do to explain why they are how they are, or an event/s I could set up to show their better qualities". Nakano they've missed multiple chances now to show he cares for kinu or for him to have potential, caits a hard sell but you could show her caring for people or sex for comfort and being a "hooker with a heart of gold" instead of her current Mary sueness . Azyrran could be more open about loving the mc and liaden. Many of the characters are completely salvageable they just go "no that's stupid lol" if it doesn't match what they want.

They prioritize polls and say stuff like "yeah cuck, futa and females got the most votes so shut up" but then don't ever see a overwhelming reaction to something and decide it needs alterations. It becomes counterproductive. Obv the echo chamber helps nothing but they see kinus blazing fire and acid reaction, they go all in. At least 75% of people hate cait and her mandatory nature, add in "ty for birthing the ultimate female life form". Azyrrans lost most of her fanbase, double down on liaden. People want etheryn to be able to get pregnant or to simply not have a kid, double down on you *will* get pregnant or she *will* impregnate elthara. People despise nakano, kinus almost killed multiple times while he writes poetry edgily in his chair. It's still early enough in development, there's time to fix a great deal, but don't know whether they see it and refuse or are just that ignorant. "I dunno why people don't like cait, is it because she can't get pregnant?" " Bro if Berwyn didn't have fan art he'd be just as popular as quin." "Well obviously you don't understand the master's degree level subtext of my kitsune den or my masterful interpretation of the ultimate video game series; princess maker". My brothers and sisters in christ have you considered more people don't like your characters because they're unlikeable