Like all things the team makes, they mishandled it. They come up with interesting concepts or things that could go in interesting directions but they take the most milk-toast, boring approach to it.
I will say this game has motivated me to not only write out my own world, but also start reading fantasy books. The cringe was so visceral that I started to look up books to like learn an author's voice, so I can make my own, I've even discovered and now stuck in the Malazan Fantasy books.
Ultimately while I do dislike Kaly and her content, her having a fuck off forever button means I don't really care. As far as commissions go, she's not as offensive to me as Agni, who takes up a goddamn companion slot that's just... abandoned.
I agree with some of the other posters that most of the sheer vitriol is due to the fact she came out when it seemed there was a new futadom in every new update and the fact that Wsan was once again dropping everything to write what felt like a rehash of Orlaith probably also rubbed people the wrong way.
I just sort of rolled my eyes and moved on with Kaly. Even if she didn't have the remove from game button, you get a good idea what she's about in her intro and still need to actively give her your shinies to do her content. And if I recall correctly she doesn't really give you anything unique other than sex, right?
Contrasted to Kelt who you needed to put up with in order to learn archery. And if you turned the tables on him and make him into Kelly, Whitney bans you from the farm and acts like you're the bad guy here for dealing with her rape horse that she doesn't put on a leash and seemed perfectly fine with him forcing himself onto others.
You're getting baited my dude. Just stop responding to that guy. All you're doing is encouraging them to keep poking at you by giving them the time of day. Even if you say it doesn't offend you, saying that while you keep replying to them is the internet equivalent of saying "I-I'm not mad!" while you got tears in your eyes. Even if it doesn't legitimately offend you, with the nature of the internet and the fact we're speaking anonymously through text means it comes off that way regardless of your intentions.
I don't got a bone to pick with you, and I don't care what you spent your money on. But I'm just trying to save you getting into a pointless slapfight where nobody wins.
You're getting baited my dude. Just stop responding to that guy. All you're doing is encouraging them to keep poking at you by giving them the time of day. Even if you say it doesn't offend you, saying that while you keep replying to them is the internet equivalent of saying "I-I'm not mad!" while you got tears in your eyes. Even if it doesn't legitimately offend you, with the nature of the internet and the fact we're speaking anonymously through text means it comes off that way regardless of your intentions.
I don't got a bone to pick with you, and I don't care what you spent your money on. But I'm just trying to save you getting into a pointless slapfight where nobody wins.
You're right, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt but in this case I think that's run it's course. Nothing productive is coming from it.
I want to believe it's just a misunderstanding or people having bad days but I guess some people are just unpleasant like that, as much as I struggle to understand why someone would act that way and actively -choose- to be a negative impact on their surroundings. I just don't get I suppose.
Thanks for the advice though, I'll ignore those kinda things on here going forwards.
You know, I've never understood the angle off "Don't look at the content," when you're playing entire game. Why do I have to censor myself? It's a game, it should be interactive. I shouldn't have to actively seek out a "fuck off" button. There should've been an alternative way to interact with her, why do I have to kick her out of the game in such an immersion breaking way? And she's not the main culprit of this. She's just one of many, and that sucks!
Bringing it back to Kelt, I can kill him, I can convert him into my bitch, I can indulge in being a sub. There are ways to interact and deal with him. And that's full, that's a full experience.
I am not mad exclusively at Nidabutt, because Nidabutt is just a consumer just as much as me.
You know, I've never understood the angle off "Don't look at the content," when you're playing entire game. Why do I have to censor myself? It's a game, it should be interactive. I shouldn't have to actively seek out a "fuck off" button. There should've been an alternative way to interact with her, why do I have to kick her out of the game in such an immersion breaking way? And she's not the main culprit of this. She's just one of many, and that sucks!
Bringing it back to Kelt, I can kill him, I can convert him into my bitch, I can indulge in being a sub. There are ways to interact and deal with him. And that's full, that's a full experience.
I am not mad exclusively at Nidabutt, because Nidabutt is just a consumer just as much as me.
Well the meta explanation is that content is written by people who want to write it. If Wsan isn't interested in writing a proper "Fuck up Kaly" scene, then it's not happening. This is the downside of using this kind of game development process because unless a writer is interested in something, it's not going to get done unless they're ordered to by the boss.
As we saw here with Nida telling us Wsan scrapped a large amount of planned expansion for Kaly, these guys treat side content as flavor of the month, they get really invested in it, hype up a bunch of stuff, and then proceed to forget/scrap/half ass it once their interest wanes.
Your main point, while certainly valid and something I myself agree with, is unrealistic for CoC II because we both know none of the writers are interested in writing anything to the level of CoC when it came with the player defeating or corrupting an NPC. Insert yet another power fantasy meme here, but that's exactly what this boils down to at the end of the day.
I get that Nida themselves said they weren't interested in commissioning a scene where Kaly gets broken/beaten, but honestly, I don't think they needed to. It's on Wsan as a writer to cover his bases and at least add something, even the teensy bit of player action. It doesn't even have to be you killing her or raping her or anything, just a small fight and a victory text that goes, "You beat the evil druid woman and she runs away with her tail between her legs, here's some XP and some items."
...Why are you mad at them at all? How is it their fault in any way, shape, or form that the devs didn't write a scene to deal with Kaly in a more permanent sense?
Actually as a matter of fact, I'm actually going to defend the fact that there isn't an option to kill her to some degree. It would literally make zero sense to fight her as she seems like a relatively normal person up until the point you start giving her items. Even then, it's not really justifiable to fight her until she actually collars you. What are you going to do, blame her for the PC acting like a slut?
Now if the devs gave an option to back out of it once you're already in deep, like Lane hypnotizing you in TiTS, that'd be cool and I would appreciate that. But you're not even the type of person to sub to her even once so legitimately what are you complaining for? This isn't like Kelt because Kelt is an asshole right out the gate and is very upfront about his intentions, so it actually makes sense to be able to shut him down instantly. With Kaly, she obscures her intentions until the very last moment. Sure she's a centaur futadom, but there's others in the game that don't surprise collar you to their cock just for submitting to them.
The only excuse the PC would have to fight her before getting collared would just be generic murderhobo shit. It's not immersion breaking to just decide to not talk to someone again. You do it in real life on the regular, so why is it such a heinous concept in a game? Just because YOU don't like the content, doesn't inherently mean there should be an option to expunge it from the game completely.
Really late reply but I found it interesting that it isn't just me struggling with descriptives during sex scenes.
Sex scenes are probably the trickiest part for me mostly because you're mentioning the PC's partner so many times and you want to get away from spammimg "Name" or "his/hers". So you tend to default to a handfull of descriptives you enjoy using. Comimg up with new ones are scary because you're afraid they will sound stupid.
If you read my Nash sex scenes there are alot of combos like "handsome/athletic wolf/merchant/lupine".
I don't think that's a controversial statement. Still, that's partially why I say anything you put to pen is equal parts conversation and persuasion. The scene I was talking about when I made this post was the body worshipping one IIRC. The character through introspection or otherwise uses "tomboy" as a descriptor. Constantly. Naturally the mind can't help but attach itself to this for any number of reasons.
Hmm..
Or maybe (probably) that's just me.
Anyway, one of the authors whose series I used to read when I was younger described one of the female characters as "more handsome than she was pretty," and he used this descriptor in every single book in that series when introducing her back to the audience including an alternative universe version of herself that was horribly scarred.
Used to drive me mad. What does that mean? You didn't describe anything!
these guys treat side content as flavor of the month, they get really invested in it, hype up a bunch of stuff, and then proceed to forget/scrap/half ass it once their interest wanes.
This isn't like Kelt because Kelt is an asshole right out the gate and is very upfront about his intentions, so it actually makes sense to be able to shut him down instantly.
Kelt is an asshole but he's not upfront about his intentions at all
He's not meant to be.
Just like Kaly he was literally designed to be a slowburn character
Kelt's original "defense" was also exactly the same. "Just don't do the content." But even then the player had options in how they wanted to... "disable" the content.
Technically Kelt also showed more restraint than Kaly. Because until the fourth visit he actually does teach you how to use the bow.
And if we're going to compare the two, while Kelt did indeed have Coldsteel energy...
"Don't be stupid. You'd never even get close to me. If I wanted to kill you, you would have been dead a long time ago. My name is Kelt."
He only starts getting hands on the PC at the fifth visit. Even during that fourth trip where you strip he just oogles you. And to my everlasting shame, I have to admit some of those lines (like if you have a big cock) are kind of funny.
"Now if only they could find a way to get you to stop stepping on your own cock every other step, maybe you'd be a real man! Can you even get it up, at this point? Or would that tip you over? Ha!"
Meanwhile Kaly is on you as soon as your second real encounter. And given the Wsan written PC can't keep his eyes off of her cock I'd say she's far more upfront about her intentions, especially if you actually agree to visit her, than Kelt ever was.
Furthermore even in it's first iteration you could yeet Kelt out of the game the second you decided you weren't on what he was about. You could enter the game blind, do Kelt's training, see what he was leading into, and then beat him up.
Kalysea has no such option and never will.
And to top it all off Kelt actually WAS a slow burn even with his psychedelic mind manipulation via his aura. Even the PC's reluctance/willingness to fall had variations. This character written by far more green writers had substantially more choice.
Which, admittedly, is usually the case when comparing CoC to CoC2.
Ultimately while I do dislike Kaly and her content, her having a fuck off forever button means I don't really care. As far as commissions go, she's not as offensive to me as Agni, who takes up a goddamn companion slot that's just... abandoned.
I agree with some of the other posters that most of the sheer vitriol is due to the fact she came out when it seemed there was a new futadom in every new update and the fact that Wsan was once again dropping everything to write what felt like a rehash of Orlaith probably also rubbed people the wrong way.
I just sort of rolled my eyes and moved on with Kaly. Even if she didn't have the remove from game button, you get a good idea what she's about in her intro and still need to actively give her your shinies to do her content. And if I recall correctly she doesn't really give you anything unique other than sex, right?
Contrasted to Kelt who you needed to put up with in order to learn archery. And if you turned the tables on him and make him into Kelly, Whitney bans you from the farm and acts like you're the bad guy here for dealing with her rape horse that she doesn't put on a leash and seemed perfectly fine with him forcing himself onto others.
Yeah you really hit the nail on the head. As things stand now I would never interact with her content aside from telling her to fuck off for good. But if she did have similar options to Kelt I believe I would, and probably even enjoy it, because fuck me last I checked games were supposed to be an escape where you're allowed to live out your power fantasies.
Instead you're just given the option to worship her cock or fuck off yourself, missing out on seemingly yet another wonderful Orlaith clone.
That being said, the hypothetical alternate routes are just unrealistic with the way this project is managed.
I'm not one to toot the "CoC1 is superior" horn, but that game at the very least made your interests and options feel valued, instead of one and done take it or leave it characters with the appeal of a wet biscuit.
In an ideal world the dev would -- in a game that's supposed to be all about changing yourself and the world around you --make an effort to make said characters appealing to all demographics, but that once again boils down to the usual beaten dead horses of moody writing, mismanaged resources, and the fickle whims of lord Savin.
Well the meta explanation is that content is written by people who want to write it. If Wsan isn't interested in writing a proper "Fuck up Kaly" scene, then it's not happening. This is the downside of using this kind of game development process because unless a writer is interested in something, it's not going to get done unless they're ordered to by the boss.
As we saw here with Nida telling us Wsan scrapped a large amount of planned expansion for Kaly, these guys treat side content as flavor of the month, they get really invested in it, hype up a bunch of stuff, and then proceed to forget/scrap/half ass it once their interest wanes.
Your main point, while certainly valid and something I myself agree with, is unrealistic for CoC II because we both know none of the writers are interested in writing anything to the level of CoC when it came with the player defeating or corrupting an NPC. Insert yet another power fantasy meme here, but that's exactly what this boils down to at the end of the day.
I get that Nida themselves said they weren't interested in commissioning a scene where Kaly gets broken/beaten, but honestly, I don't think they needed to. It's on Wsan as a writer to cover his bases and at least add something, even the teensy bit of player action. It doesn't even have to be you killing her or raping her or anything, just a small fight and a victory text that goes, "You beat the evil druid woman and she runs away with her tail between her legs, here's some XP and some items."
Solid point really. But as a creator I think even if its not personal what you're into, it's about what you're making right? So you can't just say "oh I don't want to write this because it's not my taste," alienating your player base in a specific way and makes the product lesser. Then you should push aside your ego to make sure the thing that you're making is at the very least at its highest point.
Alright. Mind you I want nothing to do with the greater point of this conversation. But since I'm here~
Kelt is an asshole but he's not upfront about his intentions at all
He's not meant to be.
Just like Kaly he was literally designed to be a slowburn character
Kelt's original "defense" was also exactly the same. "Just don't do the content." But even then the player had options in how they wanted to... "disable" the content.
Technically Kelt also showed more restraint than Kaly. Because until the fourth visit he actually does teach you how to use the bow.
And if we're going to compare the two, while Kelt did indeed have Coldsteel energy...
I mean it's kind of funny
He only starts getting hands on the PC at the fifth visit. Even during that fourth trip where you strip he just oogles you. And to my everlasting shame, I have to admit some of those lines (like if you have a big cock) are kind of funny.
Meanwhile Kaly is on you as soon as your second real encounter. And given the Wsan written PC can't keep his eyes off of her cock I'd say she's far more upfront about her intentions, especially if you actually agree to visit her, than Kelt ever was.
Furthermore even in it's first iteration you could yeet Kelt out of the game the second you decided you weren't on what he was about. You could enter the game blind, do Kelt's training, see what he was leading into, and then beat him up.
Kalysea has no such option and never will.
And to top it all off Kelt actually WAS a slow burn even with his psychedelic mind manipulation via his aura. Even the PC's reluctance/willingness to fall had variations. This character written by far more green writers had substantially more choice.
Which, admittedly, is usually the case when comparing CoC to CoC2.
I get that Nida themselves said they weren't interested in commissioning a scene where Kaly gets broken/beaten, but honestly, I don't think they needed to. It's on Wsan as a writer to cover his bases and at least add something, even the teensy bit of player action. It doesn't even have to be you killing her or raping her or anything, just a small fight and a victory text that goes, "You beat the evil druid woman and she runs away with her tail between her legs, here's some XP and some items."
Think the annoying (well, more of a nuisance) bit is how it's really just another OC on that regard. Nida paid for a character that, by default, appeals to them and maybe other folks but that's sort of accidental.
Which means there were actual work hours blown on this. In a game that's already taking ages to get done with.
Like I appreciate the lack of disruptiveness, you can turn it off and it'll be like she was never there but I can comprehend a bit of a slight.
Yeah you really hit the nail on the head. As things stand now I would never interact with her content aside from telling her to fuck off for good. But if she did have similar options to Kelt I believe I would, and probably even enjoy it, because fuck me last I checked games were supposed to be an escape where you're allowed to live out your power fantasies.
Instead you're just given the option to worship her cock or fuck off yourself, missing out on seemingly yet another wonderful Orlaith clone.
That being said, the hypothetical alternate routes are just unrealistic with the way this project is managed.
I'm not one to toot the "CoC1 is superior" horn, but that game at the very least made your interests and options feel valued, instead of one and done take it or leave it characters with the appeal of a wet biscuit.
In an ideal world the dev would -- in a game that's supposed to be all about changing yourself and the world around you --make an effort to make said characters appealing to all demographics, but that once again boils down to the usual beaten dead horses of moody writing, mismanaged resources, and the fickle whims of lord Savin.
Ultimately while I do dislike Kaly and her content, her having a fuck off forever button means I don't really care. As far as commissions go, she's not as offensive to me as Agni, who takes up a goddamn companion slot that's just... abandoned.
I already made my opinion on B and how he handled her, fact that this milk-toast shite got space while AN ALREADY MADE COMPANION WAS SHAFTED OVER A PETTY SQUABBLE with an employees no less is telling.
Kelt is an asshole but he's not upfront about his intentions at all
He's not meant to be.
Just like Kaly he was literally designed to be a slowburn character
Technically Kelt also showed more restraint than Kaly. Because until the fourth visit he actually does teach you how to use the bow.
I mean personally it's a lot easier to predict a person like Kelt trying to take advantage of the PC than it is Kaly if we're just comparing initial meetings. That's what I mean by upfront. It's very easy to tell what kind of person Kelt is from the get go while it's not as obvious with Kaly.
Meanwhile Kaly is on you as soon as your second real encounter. And given the Wsan written PC can't keep his eyes off of her cock I'd say she's far more upfront about her intentions, especially if you actually agree to visit her, than Kelt ever was.
This is a meta reason, not an in character one. I was solely referring to in character justifications as to why the PC would somehow justifiably do something to Kaly in order to remove her from the game. From a role-playing sense, the PC showing interest in Kaly's nuts does not indicate her demeanor or potential to enslave the PC, it's just Wsan shoving thoughts into the PC's head prematurely.
Furthermore even in it's first iteration you could yeet Kelt out of the game the second you decided you weren't on what he was about. You could enter the game blind, do Kelt's training, see what he was leading into, and then beat him up.
Kalysea has no such option and never will.
Again, the entire point I'm making is IN CHARACTER reasoning. Kaly is not an asshole and never forces herself upon the player until she collars them, thus there isn't really a good reason to beat Kaly up or getting her out of the game. Otherwise why wouldn't we just be able to beat up and kill every character we don't like from the get go? Like I really do not understand this fascination with removing a character just because of meta knowledge. With Kelt there is a reason because he is a complete prick from the get-go, so it makes sense if the PC would just not stand for his shit.
Legitimately what is your suggestion for the PC having a real in character reason to actually want to beat up and get rid of Kaly without altering the premise or doing heavy rewrites? Because as it stands, I find the idea incredibly ridiculous considering how you have to even agree to it when it's already HEAVILY implied both in character and out.
Think the annoying (well, more of a nuisance) bit is how it's really just another OC on that regard. Nida paid for a character that, by default, appeals to them and maybe other folks but that's sort of accidental.
Which means there were actual work hours blown on this. In a game that's already taking ages to get done with.
Like I appreciate the lack of disruptiveness, you can turn it off and it'll be like she was never there but I can comprehend a bit of a slight.
Rugged good looks, so happens to have a female face and breasts.
I will say it's not the worst case of it (never forget Hired Gun), but it really doesn't help their case.
To be fair man even if they had the time we all know they would still waste it in something else, those the rules, the client is always wrong and anything that doesn't win the horny roulette with the staff is out. It happens that Kaly got a fat cock and fucks just like the official CoC2 mascot, but unlike said mascot there's little beyond being that manipulator you might pick along the way as the writer was busy fulfilling the horny
That's one of the reasons the Hirrud miracle can't never happen again, even if anyone here were to commission the inclusion of the official f95 chuddie oc, we know it would never reproduce that magic born from sniveling spite, that can't be replicated and money ain't a guarantee, in fact money is what's keeping this from going forward
