Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.17] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[M0nte]

Not every character have to be for everybody. What's wrong if one wolf guy is straight? The pronoun thing is out of pocket though

Oh, on that I agree mostly. Though what sucks about Garret thag he was like one few guys one could grab in early years, and for him to be a straight guy fucking sucks. And mind you, people that want Garret are/were bottoms. He just needed to write a couple of parsers that acknowledge that player has a cock while topping them, and that they are he.

True, but the good thing, is that there is room and opportunity for more men of that type. Just because someone writes a believable, good-looking man (partly blame Moira or DCL if the image gets you hot), but their NPC does not like anal (for whatever reason, maybe anal killed his parents). It makes more sense to ask for more characters and not to have an author or artist change their work or vision.

It shouldn't come down to an writer not being able to write their vision because "Someone else didn't write a different character." This isn't like, "There's already seven NPCs like this." It's like, "You can't make a guy that likes blowjobs... because you didn't write a handjob, mating press, lesbian cuddle, and anal scene all at once... and because no one else has either." It makes no sense. It's like saying, "Oh, why not just have Zo and Ivaze talk. I bet they'd have great voices and could say sexy things and comment on how awesome the Champ is at sexing them. I like to hear woman praising me, you're not being inclusive!" The answer is, "Because it's Zo and Ivaze, and that's how they are."

Variety works fine enough with woman since CoC2 has them in abundance. But men lovers do not have that luxury. And one never writes in vacuum.

And even then, a lot of the gals still are not as narrow-minded as men. They at least give some content for female player/player base, as barren as it is sometimes.

The men?

Like, I love beating this drum -- there are a lot more men that are exclusive tops than bottoms. One of our three male companions (now two) was/is exclusive top. Which, for a game that mostly panders to tops, seems like shooting yourself in the foot.

Was there any wonder why both Brint and Berwyn were/are more popular than him?

Look, I do not mind your guy being a dom, but could he be a dominant Uke from time to time?

 

[Bluebird42]

True, but the good thing, is that there is room and opportunity for more men of that type. Just because someone writes a believable, good-looking man (partly blame Moira or DCL if the image gets you hot), but their NPC does not like anal (for whatever reason, maybe anal killed his parents). It makes more sense to ask for more characters and not to have an author or artist change their work or vision.

It shouldn't come down to an writer not being able to write their vision because "Someone else didn't write a different character." This isn't like, "There's already seven NPCs like this." It's like, "You can't make a guy that likes blowjobs... because you didn't write a handjob, mating press, lesbian cuddle, and anal scene all at once... and because no one else has either." It makes no sense. It's like saying, "Oh, why not just have Zo and Ivaze talk. I bet they'd have great voices and could say sexy things and comment on how awesome the Champ is at sexing them. I like to hear woman praising me, you're not being inclusive!" The answer is, "Because it's Zo and Ivaze, and that's how they are."

I wouldn't mind, writers have visions! Except the writers don't write men often and community writing takes a very, very long time to get in. And writing a character willing to fuck someone in the butt doesn't really sacrifice anything. There's a reason why there aren't a lot of characters that have gender restrictions and it's because it's wildly unpopular.

 

[Neighborsknowmyname]

So i miiight be making something similar to CoC2, just need code similar to the game layout to get started.

 

[Jbuster]

He does it on purpose.

In case y'all haven't read his ethos, this was what he said about Kinu and Kiyoko respecting the champ's pronouns and about his writing in general.

Lol, and also, lmao

Bro confuses people being mad at him for being inflexible and annoying with people being mad at him for being offensive, and honestly?, I really don't find him offensive at all (don't know anything about the pronouns thing but if it is what't I'm imagining right now now?, then he's just stupid)

I think his main issue is that he forgets that he's writing for another person that has no reason to care at all about the social complexities of his fictional people, he doesn't wants me to care, he forces me to care and that doesn't work. Thinking that because the coomers spergs playing your furry rpg are mad, you're doing something right, is something I could almost agree, even his autistic stubbornness is kind of impressive, but man, let's not pretend making people on the internet mad validates anything. Having a clear vision of what you wanna do is nice and all, every writer should learn from that but in his particular case?, he does have an audience, and they pay

I see it like this, you want me to care?, wonderful. honest in your writing, give me your spin of things, your style and I'm sure it will be lovely. We are in this together, I want to like your work, help me like your work

Look, I do not mind your guy being a dom, but could he be a dominant Uke from time to time?

I remember reading this doujin about this cute guy tempting some bigger dude till he breaks down, they hate fuck and at the end the cute guy is like, "yeah this was my plan all along, I've been toying with you since the beginning and now, you're basically mine"

It was pretty nice

 

[CrimsonSongbird1982]

(don't know anything about the pronouns thing but if it is what't I'm imagining right now now?, then he's just stupid)

Kiyoko and Kinu were originally written to only refer to the champion as father and such regardless of selected gender or body or anything else. Also tobs refused to let dickless characters impregnate kiyoko even though the weird amulet rules and his own lore allowed for it. He just didn't and that was that until the magicock feature was added. It was mainly disliked because of how out of place it was in the setting and tobs's usual behavior whenever it got brought up.

I remember reading this doujin about this cute guy tempting some bigger dude till he breaks down, they hate fuck and at the end the cute guy is like, "yeah this was my plan all along, I've been toying with you since the beginning and now, you're basically mine"

More people should watch Berserk to better understand the threats twinks pose to society at every age.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

ahhhhh
with them using Gweyr as an example

Also amazon press just looks uncomfortable as fuck, 1 leg up while the lady rides better position and more comfortable.

Someone with exp always wondered why it took off in memes. Tho I will say I'm biased because position makes me uncomfortable im a lot of ways.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

He does it on purpose.

In case y'all haven't read his ethos, this was what he said about Kinu and Kiyoko respecting the champ's pronouns and about his writing in general.

Some of this, I genuinely agree with. I don't like that milquetoast "let's make a utopia" type shit. But bro then betrays that sensibility time and time again.

 

[K1ng_C00mer]

He does it on purpose.

In case y'all haven't read his ethos, this was what he said about Kinu and Kiyoko respecting the champ's pronouns and about his writing in general.

Now you see, it's shit like this that really get my noggin joggin with regards to Tob's writing philosophy. I actually sort of understand the point he's trying to make here. Though of course the way he writes it, like everything else he makes, is the most smug, obnoxious phrasing almost deliberately trying to bait people. Yeah, Tobs, you really are a rebel, writing spite about drama that happened almost two decades ago that didn't involve you at all.

Look, I myself fall more on the right-wing side of the political spectrum. So again, I get what Tobs is saying. My issue is the fact he's framing it like he's challenging the woke mob with his edgy imperial Japan fantasy fic. It just looks sad, how Tobs is busy winning arguments in his head, instead of simply saying, "I'm not writing gay scenes for Garret, his character is straight".

It also irks me how he spends his entire essay here yapping about how he's tackling big brained topics like race-based caste systems, slavery, divine right of monarchs, and I'm just thinking... Where Tobs!? Where's the deep conversations about any of that!? I'd know if they were there- I'm a complete autismo when it comes to that stuff, so I'd know if they were there. But they're not actually there, are they? This gripping comentary is mentioned offhandedly or implied in a paragraph of nonesense or hidden away and cockteased like everything else.

You know, almost as if Tobs himself is too scared to actually address these topics?

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

Go for it!

Now I know this wasn't for me but lemme help you out with this:

You must be registered to see the links

To spice up verb game a bit

I'm not surprised tobs is like this to be honest. But what really gets me is that he thinks he's writing high art or a challenging narrative and people are just to sensitive to understand him. But his work says nothing. There is no commentary. It's just him writing his predetermined story and trying to cram it into a porn game and then getting mad the fanbase doesn't play a character he envisioned for the story. His themes are "LOL U MAD BRO?" and "Look how awesome Imperial Japan and colonialism are!". The game would genuinely be better without Tobs. He's a troll with an inflated opinion of his writing and no one will tell him no because he meets deadlines and churns shit out quick and Savin likes him still it seems.

It kind of reminds me of how Disco Elysium was developed. Except it worked. The writers got to show their unfiltered bias towards the stuff that they liked. But other writers within the group were allowed to write options or different outlooks for those scenes so the player could select what theu jived with. So you could have an option that totally agreed with that writer's extreme take. And you could have an option that destroys that take with a critique or an alternate understanding.
Tobs doesn't even want to entertain that, its his way and that's it, player agency and roleplay be damned.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

I remember reading this doujin about this cute guy tempting some bigger dude till he breaks down, they hate fuck and at the end the cute guy is like, "yeah this was my plan all along, I've been toying with you since the beginning and now, you're basically mine"

It was pretty nice

Oh, so we just guh use references and not drop the sauce? Is this how we live now

 

[Pizza Lord]

Go for it!

You could post it on the forums or Discord Excerpts if you haven't. I am sure someone there will leave a comment and opinions as well. At least one person.

 

[Bluebird42]

I need to reiterate that I have no problems with conflict, without it there's no way to move story or develop character.

I have issues that there's no way to resolve it, positively or negatively, like with the kitsune's racism, or whatever shit is going on up in the Rift. It just remains in an unsatisfying limbo.

 

[Bluebird42]

You could post it on the forums or Discord Excerpts if you haven't. I am sure someone there will leave a comment and opinions as well. At least one person.

I plan to once it's at a point I'm more satisfied with! Combing through the anal scene rn because I'm not good with "PC doing the penetrating" scenes

 

[JohnnyCashMoney]

He does it on purpose.

In case y'all haven't read his ethos, this was what he said about Kinu and Kiyoko respecting the champ's pronouns and about his writing in general.

I figured as much, but it's nice to have confirmation as to how petty he is. He acts like his writing has some greater depth and complexity to it, but in reality he is just writing pretty standard lore for a game. None of it is terribly complex either, as seen in his writing that you quoted. Ragnild hates slavery, not because of any moral or ethical reasons, but because she believes it weakens the Kervus. He forgot to expound on that in any meaningful way, such as how it would actually weaken the Kervus, or anything that would at least give her real characterization by informing as to why she believes the things she does. The main example is that the Kitsune are all xenophobic, militaristic, monarchical, etc. Just like Japan during the Feudal and Imperial eras, which doesn't add any depth to it. It all just comes off as someone taking an Eastern Civ class and never being able to shut up about it.

Him being a petty prick really isn't even my greatest issue with him because multiple core members of SavCo are petty, and they can be total pricks. My biggest problem with him is that he's just so underwhelming and boring as a writer. He apparently forgot that you have to make the porn at least somewhat exciting in a porn game. I would rather install Gentoo Linux and compile literally everything that I use from source than read his scenes because then something would be getting done. I tried to get something out of his scenes once, but it was like trying to masturbate to the Vietnam War Memorial.

 

[Peasantry]

Tobs is like the Adi Shankar of the COC2 team. He'd absolutely be the sort to depict the American army invading Hell and slaying demons, play American Idiot in the background, and then think he accurately depicted 'yeah humanity bad'

He's basically what happen would happen if a walking mass of misanthropy hatefucked a messiah complex and ended up with an unwanted child as a result

 

[TheBigFrog]

Dominating dominate people is my thing maaan.

 

[YouShallNotLol]

He does it on purpose.

In case y'all haven't read his ethos, this was what he said about Kinu and Kiyoko respecting the champ's pronouns and about his writing in general.

I actually agree with half of TOBS' arguments. Yes, characters don't have to cater to everyone and everything. Yes, sacrificing artistic integrity for political correctness is retarded. Yes, characters should be flawed and have issues to create satisfying conflicts.

But that doesn't mean that the other half of his arguments isn't absolutely delusional and wrong. No, treating players like your sworn enemies is not a thing any writer should ever do. No, being stubbornly sexist is not a hill worth dying on. And, final nail - one-time pregnancies is not a statement, it's a show of lazyness, a show that you don't give enough fucks about your own work to incorporate a glorified number counter.

 

[YouShallNotLol]

What do you mean? Look, I am all for supporting writers individual voices, and Savin already gives a lot of leeway when it comes to how one goes about expressing their view on the champ and their NPC interaction. Yet, still, this is a game that tries to be LGBTQ+ friendly so for a character, a companion no less, to ignore their lovers pronouns while no one else does... You see why that can be perceived as problematic at least?

You instead should be asking Savin on why did he allow TOBS to do all of that.

 

[M0nte]

You instead should be asking Savin on why did he allow TOBS to do all of that.

It is also on Savin, yes.

 

[Edaltar]

New art from Moira, with a pregnant version as well. Described as a princess, so I'm guessing she's the salamander princess of Tychris. Either they're preparing art ahead of time or she might make an appearance on the next Khor'minos update.

Also her mother, probably the salamander queen.



The art is great as always, but the writer is what matters. I'm still annoyed by the amazing art of the tattooed Kitsune courtesan in Khor'minos, who just ended up being a fairly vanilla encounter written by Gardeford with barely anything to her.