Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.17] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[muschi26]

Eh, joke endings in video games aren't exactly new.

I personally don't know of any, although that's just anecdotal.

IDK, the fact that it's a reference to Skyrim makes it sound ten times worse to me, because that's the kind of thing I'd expect from a stupid indie project, not a game that rakes in 500k a year and takes itself seriously. I guess I shouldn't be so harsh, since I haven't read the bad end in question, but it still seems like a terrible, terrible idea to me.

 

[Skandranon]

I personally don't know of any, although that's just anecdotal.

Maybe less these days? I dunno. There's been some bangers over the years, tho.

Silent Hill 2 has one of the best written stories in video games...and had an ending where

Spoiler

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Drakengard 2 (or 3) had an ending where

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. Really the whole series has these, including Nier Automata, which has 26 endings.

FFX2, Disco Elysium, Blazblue...hmm, maybe it's more common in Japanese games now that I think about it.

 

[Plumpunikitty]

I wouldn't say that "The bad end are not canon" but rather just not part of the main continuity.
Although I feel like that a lot of people on the internet sort of misuses the word "canon".

 

[Kroenen12]

By that same reasoning...M/M content is by far the least popular kind, what's the point of writing it?

at least there are people who ask for more M/M content, but bad ends?


even they joke about it

 

[Skandranon]

at least there are people who ask for more M/M content, but bad ends?
View attachment 1884216
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even they joke about it

I've seen people request bad ends. In fact, some of them I know are commissioned.

Regardless, my point is that something not being the most popular thing doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. Variety is the spice of life, etc.

This is besides the fact that thats not actually what the polls say, cuz polls are tricky. Asking someone what's their favorite thing(s) does not mean the last option on the poll is most people's least favorite thing.

 

[NaturalEnclave]

Maybe less these days? I dunno. There's been some bangers over the years, tho.

Silent Hill 2 has one of the best written stories in video games...and had an ending where

Spoiler

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Drakengard 2 (or 3) had an ending where

Spoiler

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. Really the whole series has these, including Nier Automata, which has 26 endings.

FFX2, Disco Elysium, Blazblue...hmm, maybe it's more common in Japanese games now that I think about it.

This is especially funny because Nier Automata Spoilers? Maybe?

Spoiler: Nier Automata/Dragengard

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But yeah, I don't think writers understand what canon means. Yes, they don't impact the continuity. They don't impact the world beyond that bad end. But they are have to be within the realms of the game. I doubt you actually end in LITERALLY SKYRIM TM in the ending that references it. If that was the case - bad endings could do anything, including Cait being loyal, Ryn losing her dick, Arona being a slave-libirator and Kinu allowing you to fuck her and destroy her village. None of those are things because those bad ends are still written in realms of possibilities, unless they are specifically the joke endings.

Does Kassyra fully changes her character and personality in that ending? No! She reveals a different side to her we don't see in the canonical storyline. But just because canonically we don't see it doesn't mean this side of her isn't part of her character.

 

[Raf-Raf]

This is especially funny because Nier Automata Spoilers? Maybe?

Spoiler: Nier Automata/Dragengard

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But yeah, I don't think writers understand what canon means. Yes, they don't impact the continuity. They don't impact the world beyond that bad end. But they are have to be within the realms of the game. I doubt you actually end in LITERALLY SKYRIM TM in the ending that references it. If that was the case - bad endings could do anything, including Cait being loyal, Ryn losing her dick, Arona being a slave-libirator and Kinu allowing you to fuck her and destroy her village. None of those are things because those bad ends are still written in realms of possibilities, unless they are specifically the joke endings.

Does Kassyra fully changes her character and personality in that ending? No! She reveals a different side to her we don't see in the canonical storyline. But just because canonically we don't see it doesn't mean this side of her isn't part of her character.

If there's an ending where we die in this game as a canon ending THEN wake up in Skyrim intro then that's my TRUE ending.

 

[Skandranon]

But yeah, I don't think writers understand what canon means. Yes, they don't impact the continuity. They don't impact the world beyond that bad end. But they are have to be within the realms of the game.

...do they? I mean, the writers make up their own rules. They've said on multiple occasions that bad end behavior from characters does not reflect the character's in game behavior.

"I mean, it's not an unreasonable thing to assume, but the bad ends exist solely to fulfill a niche fetish, not for lore"

is a quote from one of the devs on Discord.

I doubt you actually end in LITERALLY SKYRIM TM in the ending that references it.

Oh, its definitely supposed to be literally Skyrim, Balak has joked about it a bunch.

Does Kassyra fully changes her character and personality in that ending?

If she does something that she's literally incapable of in the main game...then yes, I think so.

Alternately, maybe she's entirely wrong and doesn't actually love you, she just thinks she does...because she doesn't know the difference.

 

[Innocuous_Kobold]

The only thing I have to say on the "cannon" thing is that your average player probably isn't lurking or participating in your forums/discord.

So with only the game as their only reference the average player will not extrapolate that everything in a bad end isn't what a character would do naturally in that scenario, And find deviations as inconsistent and bad writing regardless of the Dev's intentions.

I can't say if it would or should bother them but I know if I was a writer it would bother me, The lowest effort solution I could think for this is to put up a disclaimer; At the end or beginning of a bad end, That all bad ends are not cannon and character's and and events may be misrepresented or exaggerated.

Then again maybe they do have a disclaimer, I wouldn't know since I never read the bad endings except the one where Cait laid her head on my lap and trapped me with my well learned politesse, I can't remember how I got that silly bad ending but I do remember finding it really weird the masturbate option takes an entire day around the same time.

 

[Futa_Buddy]

Anyone know how to get the new Evelyn scene? Or the pitch anal scene?

EDIT: Okay I got it to work by editing my save file and disabling then re-enabling cock virginity, very strange... I think it's bugged...

 

[NaturalEnclave]

They've said on multiple occasions that bad end behavior from characters does not reflect the character's in game behavior.

"I mean, it's not an unreasonable thing to assume, but the bad ends exist solely to fulfill a niche fetish, not for lore"

is a quote from one of the devs on Discord.

your average player probably isn't lurking or participating in your forums/discord.

So with only the game as their only reference the average player will not extrapolate that everything in a bad end isn't what a character would do naturally in that scenario, And find deviations as inconsistent and bad writing regardless of the Dev's intentions.

If that's really the case, then it really feels like bad writing. Like, this is a story focused RPG. Putting every bad ending as "non canon" feels like the worst way to tackle the idea. VNs use different routes and endings as a way to explore the characters in a deeper way. Now, CoC2 isn't really a VN, but the point still stands.
As Kobold said, an average player has no idea what the developers say on forums and discord. Imagine getting an ending where Kassyra is acting in a rather different way, being exited about this and making theories about the lore and then being told that this isn't real, she might as well be a completely different character and they used there because.... uhh... then why is she there then? Because it makes sense in lore? But the devs said it doesn't have to follow lore.

So we end up with an inconsistent narrative bits which sometimes fit in the game with no issues, sometimes not. Sometimes it fits wonderfully, but devs say they shouldn't even thought there is literally nothing that says they can't. All those scenes exist for a fetish that's literally at the bottom of the player pool, yet might as well be not connected to the game judging by how the developers explain it. And an average player has to understand that all of this content doesn't matter in any meaningful way.

It's fine to have joke bad endings and what not. It's fine for characters to show sides they never would in the main game as there is no reason to. But CoC2 is in this weird middle ground where many bad ends aren't obviously jokes and written just like the main game (Compared to something like Nier Automata, where bad endings give you short text about why you fucked up and fast-forward the freaking credits), but also aren't actually canon where you use them to get more knowledge about the world and characters. It feels like the most unproductive piece of content that actually makes the narrative worse.

 

[M0nte]

All I am hearing is that you all want to make Nakanos bad end possibly cannon. And I am all for it.

 

[IcemanR]

You guys are over here talking about whether Kas can actually love and I'm just here wondering why the Dullahan doesn't have a stealth sex scene where she blows you under an inn table by using just her head.

That would be an awesome scene....as long as Tobs isn't writing it. Some of these writers should only have co-written content. I'm still waiting on a GOOD Rindo sex scene.....love her character but sigh

 

[Wrynn13]

All I am hearing is that you all want to make Nakanos bad end possibly cannon. And I am all for it.

Far as I'm concerned nothing written by Tobs should be cannon...

 

[Harleking31]

Why are you all getting so heated over the canonicity (canonnity? whatever) of bad endings?

They are:
-Funny at their worst and 10/10 in the great horny scale at their best
-Basically Consequence free to watch thanks to the retry
-Completely optional

I say if you don't like them, ignore them
But I'm going to enjoy the shit out of them

 

[Plumpunikitty]

All I am hearing is that you all want to make Nakanos bad end possibly cannon. And I am all for it.

From my concern, it technically is, despite all its shortcomings.

Why are you all getting so heated over the canonicity (canonnity? whatever) of bad endings?

They are:
-Funny at their worst and 10/10 in the great horny scale at their best
-Basically Consequence free to watch thanks to the retry
-Completely optional

I say if you don't like them, ignore them
But I'm going to enjoy the shit out of them

I mean I think we're just having a regular discussion. ⁽ᴮᵉᵗᵗᵉʳ ᵗʰᵃⁿ ᵗʰᵉ ʳᵉᵍᵘˡᵃʳ ᵍˡᵒᵖ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵗʰᶦˢ ᵗʰʳᵉᵃᵈ ᵘˢᵘᵃˡˡʸ ᵖʳᵒᵈᵘᶜᵉˢ.⁾

 

[Kroenen12]

Interesting take do you think this could happen to future party members later?

 

[Skandranon]

Genderswapping is a bad idea anyway.
A lot of work for minimal payoff.

 

[MarcusDBlack]

Why are you all getting so heated over the canonicity (canonnity? whatever) of bad endings?

They are:
-Funny at their worst and 10/10 in the great horny scale at their best
-Basically Consequence free to watch thanks to the retry
-Completely optional

I say if you don't like them, ignore them
But I'm going to enjoy the shit out of them

Its the same 2/4 people who are, the rest is either trolling or don't really care tbh

 

[joeys88]

Does Kassyra fully changes her character and personality in that ending? No! She reveals a different side to her we don't see in the canonical storyline. But just because canonically we don't see it doesn't mean this side of her isn't part of her character.

But then you have to also measure it against the bad ends where she's just like "meh" towards your char. Like the alraune bad end. Where she doesn't think your soul is going to be useful and just tosses you to the alraune. Or the alissa one when you choose not to suck her cock.

If that's really the case, then it really feels like bad writing. Like, this is a story focused RPG. Putting every bad ending as "non canon" feels like the worst way to tackle the idea.

And that's exactly what it is, they can't be bothered to keep things consistent unless it's one of their pet characters(and even then they screw up, like with cait treating anal with the PC like something special, and not caring when it comes to other NPCs).