Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.17] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Amnelis]

Wish fulfillment and power fantasies go hand in hand so porn games kind of fall into those two. CoC 2 problem is that Savin hates power fantasies, yet the game has power fantasy since everyone finds you attractive regardless of who you are. You are chosen by the main villain due to your soul, but you are not some chosen hero by the gods. There is too many clashing ideas here because in terms of power you are the weakest in your party, but still desired by everyone. Like I said, they don't really have the talent to do a DnD esque game because their own pride gets in the way to adapt.

Spot on. The game does have its share of power fantasy content so that is why it's puzzling why Savin is so vocally against them. His idea of fixing that inconsistency is then removing choices in certain scenes where they should absolutely be available to put the MC in their place and remind them they're not the center of the universe. Meanwhile you can not only have sex with pretty much anyone but they'll instantly fall in love with you, you amass titles & special weapons, you are literally on a quest to save the world from a interdimensional demon but when it comes to certain interactions & choices (in a game that should be all about them) you are made into the third wheel or helpless mumbling idiot.

I don't know if he genuinelly believes that's somehow a deep subversion of anything or he really just enjoys adding these dumb punishments through the game. I'm not huge on power fantasies but they should make up their minds & go all the way in either direction rather than the current frustrating push and pull we have.

 

[Wrynn13]

Companions are restricted to the staff, for a matter of compromise to the project and reliability.

You write a companion, you have to be constatly adding content for them, reacting to the missions and events of the world, helping the PC deal with truoubles and challenges on quests, creating sets for them, varying degrees of character development...

Writing a companion is a huge responsibility, one that you have to fulfill for years.

Eryka is not a companion because her writer, Franks, didn't make one. Whether the reason was because they didn't want to or lack of time with real life demands taking priority, it is what it is.

You're kidding right? More than half the companions are not and have not been constantly getting content added to them. So much for your compromise of reliability.

 

[hater45]

Fitting name you have, not to mention our numbers.

This is a porn game, so having most of the sexable NPCs being down to fuck with the PCs at some point is kind of a given.

You are not chosen by the gods, but they are interested in the PC's soul, too. You can become one, if you desire. But it doesn't make you OP.

Porn is a wish fulfillment/ power fantasy genre of entertainment so that is a total given for the amount of sexable NPC. It is why I don't understand if you hate that then why write for it? Some of the "gods" already have their champions so your soul is unneeded, but then we run into a issue. That undead goddesses gave her champion bullshit op powers but the other "gods" give you scraps???? As of now we don't know why our soul is special, or if we do I haven't seen it since I kind of speed read at points due to being bored reading some of the lore. At least have them act the the Daedra and give you powerful tools in exchange for you soul so you can be a huge dick and have them fight each other for it when you die.

 

[Dreamer44]

You're kidding right? More than half the companions are not and have not been constantly getting content added to them. So much for your compromise of reliability.

Because the writers are not JUST writing the companions. Several NPCs, zones, quests, having to edit or add things...

Gardeford is currently finishing the Lumian Keep in the Glacial Rift, which will introduce Valkyries, Lumia and add content for his companion, Atugia.

And Savin is finishing the confrontation with Demon Alissa, which will advance and unlock more of Etheryn's content. Including uncaging her.

Brint and Brienne are advancing too; more development for them and their family is on the works.

B is currently working on a project for TiTS, but be sure they'll be back with more Agnimitra.

 

[Dreamer44]

Porn is a wish fulfillment/ power fantasy genre of entertainment so that is a total given for the amount of sexable NPC. It is why I don't understand if you hate that then why write for it? Some of the "gods" already have their champions so your soul is unneeded, but then we run into a issue. That undead goddesses gave her champion bullshit op powers but the other "gods" give you scraps???? As of now we don't know why our soul is special, or if we do I haven't seen it since I kind of speed read at points due to being bored reading some of the lore. At least have them act the the Daedra and give you powerful tools in exchange for you soul so you can be a huge dick and have them fight each other for it when you die.

It IS said why the PC's soul is special. But if you don't read in a text game, you can't blame the writers.

Becoming a soulbound to a god gives powers and skills, and changes how certain NPCs react to you, but it doesn't give you story breaker powers. What would be the point of having battles, then?

And Keros the Trickster God tells you they'd seen that trick before, and won't fall for it. So if you soulbound to one, you can't barter your already taken soul to other.

 

[Daken9]

Talking of RPGs, imo at its core a power-fantasy is nothing more than a regular RPG that puts the PC at the centre of its narrative while providing a multitude of paths and one optimal one, that you usually can go down by going the extra mile. So while functionally a power-fantasy because of the porn aspect, i still wouldn't call this game one because it often just lacks the most basic of choices (beyond sex stuff). And i think it does so because the writers' perspective just intrudes too often on their writing.

Like, from the writer's perspective the foxes weren't meant to come across as a bunch of soul-sucking assholes, so you can't talk back to them. Mallachites weren't meant to come across as a weird grooming cult, so they're the best people ever and here's your temple. Everyone practices slavery, but because reasons only the orcs are bad for doing it and just accept it. Gweyr the kidsslayer and Kiyoko the terrible mother are actually upstanding citizens, so god forbid you ever question them. The Champions needs to like Cait because she's actually lovely, the Champions needs to be Agni's whipping boy because she's actually just spunky, and so forth and so on.

It's honestly odd. Those themes and characters wouldn't even feel bad, in absense of choice, if they were treated with a measure of awareness, but it's all just so biased. Don't question anything and like what we like, kinda thing. Which is why i think Wsan is as appreciated as he is around here. He doesn't provide much choice either, and he doesn't write the most complex of characters/situations, but at least he doesn't impose controversial takes on the player/character.

 

[Dreamer44]

Talking of RPGs, imo a power-fantasy is nothing more than a regular RPG that provides a multitude of paths and one optimal one, that you usually can go down by going the extra mile. So while functionally a power-fantasy because of the porn aspect, i still wouldn't call this game one because it often just lacks basic choice. And i think it does so because the writers' perspective just intrudes too often on their writing.

Like, from the writer's perspective the foxes weren't meant to come across as a bunch of soul-sucking assholes, so you can't talk back to them. Mallachites weren't meant to come across as a weird grooming cult, so they're the best people ever and here's your temple. Everyone practices slavery, but because reasons only the orcs are bad for doing it. Gweyr the kidsslayer and Kiyoko the terrible mother are actually upstanding citizens, so god forbid you ever question them. The Champions needs to like Cait because she's actually lovely, the Champions needs to be Agni's whipping boy because she's actually just spunky, and so forth and so on.

It's honestly odd. Those themes and characters wouldn't even feel bad, in absense of choice, if they were treated right, but it's all just so biased. Don't question anything and like what we like, kinda thing. Which is why i think Wsan is as appreciated as he is around here. He doesn't provide much choice either, and he doesn't write the most complex of characters/situations, but at least he doesn't impose controversial takes on the player.

The Mallachites don't groom people. They raise the children, yes, but they give them the option of joining or not. Where did you get that idea?

 

[Biostar]

But more content is coming soon.

 

[hater45]

It IS said why the PC's soul is special. But if you don't read in a text game, you can't blame the writers.

Becoming a soulbound to a god gives powers and skills, and changes how certain NPCs react to you, but it doesn't give you story breaker powers. What would be the point of having battles, then?

And Keros the Trickster God tells you they'd seen that trick before, and won't fall for it. So if you soulbound to one, you can't barter your already taken soul to other.

How do the Kitsune react to you being a kitsune from Keros? They don't really treat you that much different than before. Also, don't give others story breaking powers because you can just ask why they haven't solved any conflicts that are happening right now. We can use my WOTR example, when you choose a path you get unique powers that is on the realm of godly but they are only for story purposes or cool buffs, like Aeon being the giga chad and making people cease to exist, or Tricksters being able to manipulate their dice rolls to crit like fucking monsters.

You only get a transformation for giving up your soul, doesn't seem that worth it now does it? Lumia makes you a Valkyrie if I am not mistaken. These are some shit offers compared to any other games where you get something like Ebony blade, or Dawnbreaker. I feel that they seen the trick before is such a bullshit excuse because they would automatically know if you didn't have a soul because it is physically ripped from your body, unlike it going somewhere post death. For people who wants to do worldbuilding, it sure is easy to find major flaws in logic thinking about it more than a few seconds.

 

[Wrynn13]

The Mallachites don't groom people. They raise the children, yes, but they give them the option of joining or not. Where did you get that idea?

Raising children in a environment that sex for money is normalized then when they grow up are told become a sex worker or get out is grooming. The fact they aren't forced does not make it not grooming.

 

[Biostar]

The Mallachites don't groom people. They raise the children, yes, but they give them the option of joining or not. Where did you get that idea?

You don't know what grooming means. It doesn't require forcing someone to do the thing they're being groomed into doing, it's influencing them to the extent that they wouldn't make any other choice. The babies are raised in their temple, constantly surrounded by what they do in said temple, and all the people in their life, friends and family, are involved in said activities and would certainly support their religion by preaching it to them in a positive light. Yeah, they might not all decide to join when the time comes but more certainly will than not cause that's basically all they knew.

 

[Raf-Raf]

Raising children in a environment that sex for money is normalized then when they grow up are told become a sex worker or get out is grooming. The fact they aren't forced does not make it not grooming.

Ah yes, manipulation is a thing too.

Religion DOES NOT AND WILL NEVER transcend morality.

 

[Bloep]

She can transform into both a futa and a dude, if I remember right.

Just temporary tf's though, right?

 

[Daken9]

But Cait, herself a child who was raised in the sex cult and eventually joined it after being given the ultimatum, says it's not grooming, so it's not

(Obligatory, imagine if it was played as the gods being overall good for the world [due to their sheer intransigence and no more] but still allowing bad shit to happen in their name because arrogant assholes, while Kaz being more personable and approachable [which is she is] yet still worse for the world at large because of her very demonic nature/plans)

 

[Meatshield236]

Talking of RPGs, imo at its core a power-fantasy is nothing more than a regular RPG that puts the PC at the centre of its narrative while providing a multitude of paths and one optimal one, that you usually can go down by going the extra mile. So while functionally a power-fantasy because of the porn aspect, i still wouldn't call this game one because it often just lacks the most basic of choices (beyond sex stuff). And i think it does so because the writers' perspective just intrudes too often on their writing.

Like, from the writer's perspective the foxes weren't meant to come across as a bunch of soul-sucking assholes, so you can't talk back to them. Mallachites weren't meant to come across as a weird grooming cult, so they're the best people ever and here's your temple. Everyone practices slavery, but because reasons only the orcs are bad for doing it and just accept it. Gweyr the kidsslayer and Kiyoko the terrible mother are actually upstanding citizens, so god forbid you ever question them. The Champions needs to like Cait because she's actually lovely, the Champions needs to be Agni's whipping boy because she's actually just spunky, and so forth and so on.

It's honestly odd. Those themes and characters wouldn't even feel bad, in absense of choice, if they were treated with a measure of awareness, but it's all just so biased. Don't question anything and like what we like, kinda thing. Which is why i think Wsan is as appreciated as he is around here. He doesn't provide much choice either, and he doesn't write the most complex of characters/situations, but at least he doesn't impose controversial takes on the player/character.

Your point about the writer's perspective intruding upon everything is spot on. With better writers, we would be presented with information about the world and it's characters then be allowed to make decisions based off of that information. It can be biased based off who you learn it from, but the text and situations you are put in shouldn't be biased one way or another. I think this is why Cait is so hated around here, because the text presents her in such a glowing light that it feels like it's demanding that you like her. Given how they divvy up writing characters, I am not surprised in the slightest. Because every character is someone's Special OC that must be liked at all times, because doing otherwise would be a personal attack against the person writing them. It's the amateur fanfic problem turned into a game, with the added problem that they're also including kinks in there and that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

As a side note, can I just say that despite the game presenting itself as sex positive, it's weirdly judgemental. This ties into the whole "just about every character is someone's OC Sex Dream," you get weirdly pressured into having sexual encounters with everyone and everything. Every situation is someone's magical realm. Which usually isn't a problem in most games because they're clear about what the game is about. But with CoC 2, it presents itself as a choice-based RPG. A sexy choose your own adventure novel. Except the narration keeps pushing you towards fucking everything and everyone, rather than presenting a buffet and allowing you to pick and choose.

 

[hater45]

-snip-

You choose the option they don't like then the characters get super salty or you get punished for it. You choose to return the amulet to Keros and it almost sounds like Tobs is speaking through with the seethe. If I'm not this super special person, then it doesn't matter if I don't do your plan because you can find anyone else to do it. Letting Quinn die is bad because of what? He is running away from the cult due to defecting and I'm just suppose to believe him?

 

[Meatshield236]

You choose the option they don't like then the characters get super salty or you get punished for it. You choose to return the amulet to Keros and it almost sounds like Tobs is speaking through with the seethe. If I'm not this super special person, then it doesn't matter if I don't do your plan because you can find anyone else to do it. Letting Quinn die is bad because of what? He is running away from the cult due to defecting and I'm just suppose to believe him?

I just had a look at Quinn's wiki page (I never ran into him apparently) and holy shit, saving the guy then telling him to fuck off gives you corruption? Being cautious about an ex-cultist and not leading him towards the nearest town is an objectively a bad thing to the game apparently, even though subverting towns and areas from within is something that the cult does. You have no reason to trust him, and every reason to distrust a literal demon worshiping cult who's entire MO is corrupting and subverting things through subtle and not so subtle means.

Man, this is the most railroading shit I've seen.

 

[FurrBat]

I think 2 things hurt me the most in Coc2. The lack of player agency (all of the we are Cait's taxi memes here) and the lack of overall consistency in Mc characterization. How much respect do we even get from people around us when we did quests, real question tho?

Each writer has their own take on our Mc and his character ping-pongs from event to event being different each time.

Then we have some railroading with our beloved instant-loss scenes by means of Author-inserts *cough* Leofric *cough* or "choices" where the outcome is the same *cough* Gweyr *cough* so while we still have the illusion of choice it doesnt matter anyway, as the choice is made by the writer not us.

 

[muschi26]

I just had a look at Quinn's wiki page (I never ran into him apparently) and holy shit, saving the guy then telling him to fuck off gives you corruption? Being cautious about an ex-cultist and not leading him towards the nearest town is an objectively a bad thing to the game apparently, even though subverting towns and areas from within is something that the cult does. You have no reason to trust him, and every reason to distrust a literal demon worshiping cult who's entire MO is corrupting and subverting things through subtle and not so subtle means.

Man, this is the most railroading shit I've seen.

The difference between purity and corruption is actually just playing the game how the devs intend you to vs. going against that.

Kissing Cait's ass to remove corruption was a metaphor all along.

 

[FurrBat]

Kissing Cait's ass to remove was a metaphor all along.

Im still dying to this day that this is an actual coded in mechanic after I found it myself when browsing the code for ways of decreasing corruption.