VN Ren'Py Cosy Cafe [v0.13.1 EA] [Cosy Creator]

[Konrad Simon]

Whatever Akatsuki does
From me she gets a pass.
Vicky has the knockers,
But kitten has the personality.

 

[Karakes]

Whatever Akatsuki does
From me she gets a pass.
Vicky has the knockers,
But kitten has the personality.

See, I don't agree with this take. All we know of the cat, is that she likes making MC hard and she probably has feelings for him, but we don't really know why. Vicky we got to see the development, all we got from Akat was her curiosity from MC's perspective. Only thing I remember that the MC did was occasionally check out his sous chef. I know we're supposed to have harem brain in this type of story, but nobody has noticed all these years how hot the asian girl was in a school filled with WASPs? We'll probably get an idea of why she fell for MC, but at this point it's just as likely to be hormones as anything else.

 

[mordred93]

See, I don't agree with this take. All we know of the cat, is that she likes making MC hard and she probably has feelings for him, but we don't really know why. Vicky we got to see the development, all we got from Akat was her curiosity from MC's perspective. Only thing I remember that the MC did was occasionally check out his sous chef. I know we're supposed to have harem brain in this type of story, but nobody has noticed all these years how hot the asian girl was in a school filled with WASPs? We'll probably get an idea of why she fell for MC, but at this point it's just as likely to be hormones as anything else.

"We Korean, that problem? You racist?" Didn't you know Blue Student #4 was Asian? Also Blue Student #2 in Akatsuki's class? How can you not tell .......... J/K

 

[Elhemeer]

Whatever Akatsuki does
From me she gets a pass.
Vicky has the knockers,
But kitten has the personality.

EDIT: I forgot how poems are supposed to work ... I still stand by my rant, but it clearly doesn't apply to Konrad's clever comment.

See, I don't agree with this take. All we know of the cat, is that she likes making MC hard and she probably has feelings for him, but we don't really know why. Vicky we got to see the development, all we got from Akat was her curiosity from MC's perspective. ... We'll probably get an idea of why [Akatsuki] fell for MC, but at this point it's just as likely to be hormones as anything else.

100% ... Kitten has almost only had a personality for the time they were in her bedroom and she was broken for having betrayed him. Outside of that, 98% of the time she's just manic-pixie-dream-sex-fiend or super-competent chef -- except she doesn't say words. And I love her.

But not only has Vicky been the MC's ride-or-die the second-longest of all the girls, she's playful, charming, antagonistic, loyal, devious, mischievous, disarming, flirtatious, motivated (even when grumbling), sweet, vivacious, competitive, demanding, determined, etc. ... oh, and also the naughtiest and last one to say "no" to anything.

So while Akatsuki is fantastic, most of the time she's one-note. While that's a representation of "a" personality, it's a stretch to look at all the girls in the game and say she has "the" personality.

 

[shitass1001]

See, I don't agree with this take. All we know of the cat, is that she likes making MC hard and she probably has feelings for him, but we don't really know why. Vicky we got to see the development, all we got from Akat was her curiosity from MC's perspective. Only thing I remember that the MC did was occasionally check out his sous chef. I know we're supposed to have harem brain in this type of story, but nobody has noticed all these years how hot the asian girl was in a school filled with WASPs? We'll probably get an idea of why she fell for MC, but at this point it's just as likely to be hormones as anything else.

I dont think we really have to know a lot about her to understand her personality, the way she acts is enough. if MC were to ask her a bunch of questions like what her favourite movie is (it's "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" Obviously) or why she fell for him it wouldnt really add too much to her character. Not saying that exposition like that is the only way to learn about a person, but with how Akatsuki is characterized the chances of her deciding on her own to open up about why she likes someone are relatively low.

It is stated that she only joined up with the MC to steal his cooking related secrets, but after spending time with the group she started to like being with them, and she liked all the stuff she did with the MC. So I guess hormones sorta played a part in it?
As for why she hasnt fallen for anyone else? she just ignores people when they try to talk to her. Someone might have hit on her and just lost interest because she didnt react

I dont think its too far fetched to say that a person can like someone simply because they like spending time with them. Maybe I misinterpreted what you said though, idk

 

[Konrad Simon]

See, I don't agree with this take. All we know of the cat, is that she likes making MC hard and she probably has feelings for him, but we don't really know why. Vicky we got to see the development, all we got from Akat was her curiosity from MC's perspective. Only thing I remember that the MC did was occasionally check out his sous chef. I know we're supposed to have harem brain in this type of story, but nobody has noticed all these years how hot the asian girl was in a school filled with WASPs? We'll probably get an idea of why she fell for MC, but at this point it's just as likely to be hormones as anything else.

But I really like her personality. I'd like to lay her across my lap and smack that personality until it was bright red.

(In case you missed it, that was joke. Read it again. Personality doesn't rhyme with pass.)
(Or else, you know, it just wasn't funny.)

 

[Master Peter Raven]

Just passing on a thought or two. Admittedly I am early on in playing 'Cosy Cafe', only up to Sep 22nd, and while I am thoroughly enjoying it, I do sorta miss the ability to make some decisions. Here's where I get people telling me I'm crazy I am sure. At the point I am currently at in the game, if I had had choices, I would have turned down the headmistress's bj and I would have kicked Hannah to the curb as well. I know, but that is just me. Then again, I'm the guy who when playing D&D does his level best to break the DM and his game plan, so there's that. I am enjoying it very much, I just tend to take after the MC and like to be the one who makes the decisions.

 

[torpedogoat]

Just passing on a thought or two. Admittedly I am early on in playing 'Cosy Cafe', only up to Sep 22nd, and while I am thoroughly enjoying it, I do sorta miss the ability to make some decisions. Here's where I get people telling me I'm crazy I am sure. At the point I am currently at in the game, if I had had choices, I would have turned down the headmistress's bj and I would have kicked Hannah to the curb as well. I know, but that is just me. Then again, I'm the guy who when playing D&D does his level best to break the DM and his game plan, so there's that. I am enjoying it very much, I just tend to take after the MC and like to be the one who makes the decisions.

If you open the "Genre" spoiler in the game's profile, you will see it's tagged "kinetic novel". And this is what that means. Think of it as the equivalent of a conventional movie or printed novel.

Most people would agree that having lots of meaningful choices leading to completely different paths is a good thing. However, all these different paths cost development time, and if there are a lot it can get confusing. With some games this leads to slower and slower development as the story progresses and the interactions between the various choices more and more intricate. Or to nasty continuity errors for some combinations of decisions. In the worst case, at some point things get so complicated that the developer loses motivation and abandons the game altogether. There is no danger of any of this here. And so far we have indeed been enjoying regular substantial updates at a consistent quality.

 

[Elhemeer]

If you open the "Genre" spoiler in the game's profile, you will see it's tagged "kinetic novel". And this is what that means. Think of it as the equivalent of a conventional movie or printed novel.

Most people would agree that having lots of meaningful choices leading to completely different paths is a good thing. However, all these different paths cost development time, and if there are a lot it can get confusing. With some games this leads to slower and slower development as the story progresses and the interactions between the various choices more and more intricate. Or to nasty continuity errors for some combinations of decisions. In the worst case, at some point things get so complicated that the developer loses motivation and abandons the game altogether. There is no danger of any of this here. And so far we have indeed been enjoying regular substantial updates at a consistent quality.

I'm pretty sure there was a bit of tongue planted in his cheek in that post ...

Then again, I'm the guy who when playing D&D does his level best to break the DM and his game plan, so there's that.

It's not that he didn't know what he was in for, just that he has strong opinions about some of the girls.

For me, my favorite parts of the second half of the game (so far) has been the "interactions" between Hannah and Catherine, two girls I might have not given the time of day if this were choose-your-own-adventure storytelling.

Personally, knowing Rachel will eventually have a relationship with the harem makes me groan each time I think about it, but so far each time I think I'm not going to like what comes next I have enjoyed it, so until something happens that changes my mind, I'm looking forward to what comes next.

 

[MoreLinks]

For me, my favorite parts of the second half of the game (so far) has been the "interactions" between Hannah and Catherine, two girls I might have not given the time of day if this were choose-your-own-adventure storytelling.

Yeah one of my favorite aspects of this game are the frequent interactions between the girls. I think the Dev has said he wanted this to be like a sisterhood, and I quite like that vision.

I can only imagine that aspect would be a bit diminished if he had to do variations of scenes accounting for being on or off a specific girl's path.

But hell, maybe I'm a weirdo, because I really liked the scenes where

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[Karakes]

But I really like her personality. I'd like to lay her across my lap and smack that personality until it was bright red.

(In case you missed it, that was joke. Read it again. Personality doesn't rhyme with pass.)
(Or else, you know, it just wasn't funny.)

Being honest, didn't realize you were making a ditty. Just took what you said literally and decided to make a counter-argument.

 

[Elhemeer]

But I really like her personality. I'd like to lay her across my lap and smack that personality until it was bright red.

(In case you missed it, that was joke. Read it again. Personality doesn't rhyme with pass.)
(Or else, you know, it just wasn't funny.)

Yup ... didn't read that properly ... got a fun (for me) rant out of me though, so I'm not upset.

Edited the post for clarity ...

 

[Master Peter Raven]

If you open the "Genre" spoiler in the game's profile, you will see it's tagged "kinetic novel". And this is what that means. Think of it as the equivalent of a conventional movie or printed novel.

Most people would agree that having lots of meaningful choices leading to completely different paths is a good thing. However, all these different paths cost development time, and if there are a lot it can get confusing. With some games this leads to slower and slower development as the story progresses and the interactions between the various choices more and more intricate. Or to nasty continuity errors for some combinations of decisions. In the worst case, at some point things get so complicated that the developer loses motivation and abandons the game altogether. There is no danger of any of this here. And so far we have indeed been enjoying regular substantial updates at a consistent quality.

Oh, I knew it was a kinetic novel from jump. I'm fine with that, I assure you. I was simply expressing my personal preferences, nothing more. Just finished to the end of the last update and I am completely happy right now since my favorite, and as far as I am concerned the prettiest, has finally received her choker. So it's all good. Well, as much as it can be when with a "km". (Just kidding, it's fantastic.)

 

[MalLiz]

Oh, I knew it was a kinetic novel from jump. I'm fine with that, I assure you. I was simply expressing my personal preferences, nothing more. Just finished to the end of the last update and I am completely happy right now since my favorite, and as far as I am concerned the prettiest, has finally received her choker. So it's all good. Well, as much as it can be when with a "km". (Just kidding, it's fantastic.)

The thing about "choices" in games is that they either need to be so minimal that they just don't affect the story at all (turning down Alison's blowjob could maybe fit into that category) which begs the question "Well, what's the point then?"

...Or there will have to be several versions of the same story with numerous major alterations and alternative paths to account for whatever branching narratives the players may choose. (In this case, a story without Hannah would be drastically different on basically every single level!)

...And to the layman, a branching narrative may seem like a good thing, but tell me: How many games with a diversely branching story have ended up having anything even remotely narratively satisfying going for them, huh? Because off the top of my head, I can only really think of one single game ever, namely Deus Ex. And that game was the quintessential embodiment of the expression "Lightning never strikes the same spot twice."

So while I can understand why you'd think that branching stories are good, trust me, they never really are compared to a carefully crafted linear one. At least not with the same (or even double) amount of work put in as with a linear story. Cosy definitely did the right thing about making this game entirely linear, that's for sure.

-Mal

PS: I'm not saying you shouldn't have your own opinion or preference about this. I'm just trying to shed some light why this game (and so many others) absolutely benefit from cutting out the whole "player choice" thing altogether.

 

[Cosy Creator]

The thing about "choices" in games is that they either need to be so minimal that they just don't affect the story at all (turning down Alison's blowjob could maybe fit into that category) which begs the question "Well, what's the point then?"

...Or there will have to be several versions of the same story with numerous major alterations and alternative paths to account for whatever branching narratives the players may choose. (In this case, a story without Hannah would be drastically different on basically every single level!)

...And to the layman, a branching narrative may seem like a good thing, but tell me: How many games with a diversely branching story have ended up having anything even remotely narratively satisfying going for them, huh? Because off the top of my head, I can only really think of one single game ever, namely Deus Ex. And that game was the quintessential embodiment of the expression "Lightning never strikes the same spot twice."

So while I can understand why you'd think that branching stories are good, trust me, they never really are compared to a carefully crafted linear one. At least not with the same (or even double) amount of work put in as with a linear story. Cosy definitely did the right thing about making this game entirely linear, that's for sure.

-Mal

PS: I'm not saying you shouldn't have your own opinion or preference about this. I'm just trying to shed some light why this game (and so many others) absolutely benefit from cutting out the whole "player choice" thing altogether.

This is all true, and it also touches on an even bigger problem that I personally have with meaningful choices when it comes to harems and choosing girls, and that's the limitations it puts on your writing: the main one being that it means the girls themselves can't be used to drive each other's stories and character development forward.

To give an example, the entire subtext behind Vicky's sudden, seemingly out-of-nowhere attraction to the MC early in the story is her hidden inferiority complex comparing herself to Lucy, who the MC dotes on much more than he does Vicky. It's never explicitly articulated, but there are a tonne of obvious clues pointing towards it. None of that makes any sense, however, in a world where the player has the opportunity to reject Lucy. In fact, the player rejecting Lucy and pursuing Vicky alone would completely change the dynamic in their early relationship; suddenly, the MC is chasing her just like every other guy does (something she's more than used to) rather than rejecting her for the shy loner girl (something that's alien to her).

Now, obviously, you could write all the individual scenes a dozen different ways to account for this, but at that point you would be fundamentally changing all of the subtle story elements that drive the girls' character development, meaning that the characters themselves would have to be changed, too. To put it another way, different story input = different character output. That quickly becomes an impossible task to do well, you'd essentially have to write dozens of different stories all at once. So, instead, what I think tends to end up happening most of the time when devs do this is that in order to reduce the impact of player choices, the girls end up siloed off into individual stories of their own, where they are deliberately designed to have minimal impact on one another. This, in turn, leads to the standard template where the story has 90% of its run time devoted to the MC following simultaneous individual girl paths, perhaps with the occasional crossover and carefully worded group scenes that are so generic they can fit every path, but with the harem itself, the bit we're all here for, being relegated to an ending, not forming the core of the story.

Hmm, that turned into a bit of a ramble, but it's something I've thought about a fair bit over the years and I just kinda vomited my thoughts out!

 

[jadepaladin]

This is all true, and it also touches on an even bigger problem that I personally have with meaningful choices when it comes to harems and choosing girls, and that's the limitations it puts on your writing: the main one being that it means the girls themselves can't be used to drive each other's stories and character development forward.

To give an example, the entire subtext behind Vicky's sudden, seemingly out-of-nowhere attraction to the MC early in the story is her hidden inferiority complex comparing herself to Lucy, who the MC dotes on much more than he does Vicky. It's never explicitly articulated, but there are a tonne of obvious clues pointing towards it. None of that makes any sense, however, in a world where the player has the opportunity to reject Lucy. In fact, the player rejecting Lucy and pursuing Vicky alone would completely change the dynamic in their early relationship; suddenly, the MC is chasing her just like every other guy does (something she's more than used to) rather than rejecting her for the shy loner girl (something that's alien to her).

Now, obviously, you could write all the individual scenes a dozen different ways to account for this, but at that point you would be fundamentally changing all of the subtle story elements that drive the girls' character development, meaning that the characters themselves would have to be changed, too. To put it another way, different story input = different character output. That quickly becomes an impossible task to do well, you'd essentially have to write dozens of different stories all at once. So, instead, what I think tends to end up happening most of the time when devs do this is that in order to reduce the impact of player choices, the girls end up siloed off into individual stories of their own, where they are deliberately designed to have minimal impact on one another. This, in turn, leads to the standard template where the story has 90% of its run time devoted to the MC following simultaneous individual girl paths, perhaps with the occasional crossover and carefully worded group scenes that are so generic they can fit every path, but with the harem itself, the bit we're all here for, being relegated to an ending, not forming the core of the story.

Hmm, that turned into a bit of a ramble, but it's something I've thought about a fair bit over the years and I just kinda vomited my thoughts out!

This made me nostalgic for the early days of the story when it was just Lucy and Vicky was on the outside looking in.

 

[elricsecret]

dont tell me that annoying shit stain that enjoy getting raped by random strangers in train will became one of the girlfriends?

 

[johnmnf692]

dont tell me that annoying shit stain that enjoy getting raped by random strangers in train will became one of the girlfriends?

She explicitly doesn't enjoy being groped by strangers, she literally says that to the MC. She only liked the MC doing it because he saved her.

 

[shitass1001]

Hmm, that turned into a bit of a ramble, but it's something I've thought about a fair bit over the years and I just kinda vomited my thoughts out!

You should vomit more I like the behind the scenes rambling you do sometimes

 

[MoreLinks]

Don't think I could have said it better, Cosy. Especially this part:

So, instead, what I think tends to end up happening most of the time when devs do this is that in order to reduce the impact of player choices, the girls end up siloed off into individual stories of their own, where they are deliberately designed to have minimal impact on one another. This, in turn, leads to the standard template where the story has 90% of its run time devoted to the MC following simultaneous individual girl paths, perhaps with the occasional crossover and carefully worded group scenes that are so generic they can fit every path, but with the harem itself, the bit we're all here for, being relegated to an ending, not forming the core of the story.

I don't mean to diminish other harem games, as there's many I love. But having the harem be a core part of the story and unfractured is a good thing IMO.