HTML Course of Temptation [v0.6.0f] [Anthaum]

[Ferghus]

So with this, quite puritan view, in mind - lets remember that the game is featuring:
- Professors doing to students exactly what Harvey Weinstein did to actors.
- Player is able to become drunk (as a woman) and have sex (with men).

This is the context for my reply, where I mocked the concept of "Wholesome":
> Getting done by the entire university... wholesome...?
> Getting done by the professors... wholesome...?
>
> I'd describe these rules as hypocritical and puritan, rather than "wholesome".
> Which is why I wount touch Patreon for anything.

My dude, no one was arguing whether Patreon's guidelines is bullshit or whether dubcon is in line with it.

In regards to your other points, they aren't equivalent. First off, professors don't just come onto you, you have to literally flirt with them every day for close to what, a month? Before they even proposition you. And you saying no has no impact whatsoever on your academic success. They aren't leveraging their positions as people of authority over you. Hell, if you came back another day, you could ask for a different, nonsexual favor, and they still wouldn't refuse you. You either haven't played the game or you have no concept for why Harvey Weinstein's crimes are so serious.

Secondly, your ability to get drunk doesn't actually impact your character's decision-making skills on a mechanical level. The game makes no attempt to suggest your character's ability to refuse advances or make rational decisions is impaired. Any perceived impaired judgement in reference to consent is something wholly external to the game. Just because the game doesn't prevent you, the player, from having your character engage in sexual activities while "drunk" doesn't mean it's unwholesome. It would be equivalent to you, the player, intentionally killing all the black NPCs in a Sims playthrough and accusing Sims of promoting racist behavior. It's completely backwards reasoning.

But again, just because those things exist in the game, doesn't negate the statement "we kind of feel like we're the more dubcon/consensual roleplay game" and "DoL is for dark noncon, CoT is for more wholesome consent." Do you not know what the word "more" means? More doesn't mean absolute.

Edit: Holdup, I just remembered too, the professors don't even offer to bump your grade for sex. If you're accepting their proposition for no clear benefit, aren't threatened, and have no drawbacks for refusing, what is it if it isn't consent? Are you sure you played this game?

 

[ClaudiaMinx_01]

Secondly, your ability to get drunk doesn't actually impact your character's decision-making skills on a mechanical level.

Wait, I though that drunkness lowers your dishinibition requirements when looking for hookups at the quad party or the River Rat, the same way as low release levels. Or at least thats what suggests the way its displayed when you're looking for a partner.

(This is a genuine question btw, I don't want to add anything to this whole argument).

 

[un-song]

Really, if I knew I had this kind of power, I'd use it more often.

I was not aware that the developer was in the topic. Please tell me, do you plan to develop the "no deal" route in parallel with the deal route? Or do you allow a lag or a temporary freeze of the route? In general, I would like to know if all potential "dark" routes will have an alternative, especially regarding the negative actions of my character.

 

[CadiaCreations]

I was not aware that the developer was in the topic. Please tell me, do you plan to develop the "no deal" route in parallel with the deal route? Or do you allow a lag or a temporary freeze of the route? In general, I would like to know if all potential "dark" routes will have an alternative, especially regarding the negative actions of my character.

Not "the developer", just a Contributor (that's my official title) and mod in the official Discord who is trying to keep an eye on this thread because CoT is popular here, apparently XD

I actually am only tangently aware of the route you're talking about, but I can try to look into it. There's several of us all working on different ideas, so sometimes people are talking about stuff that I'm not even aware of being in the code!

I am Developer-approved to be over here speaking "officially" but you better bet that when people start trying to say CoT is something it's not I'm gonna be a bit of an asshole.

 

[C1pherspace]

Not "the developer", just a Contributor (that's my official title) and mod in the official Discord who is trying to keep an eye on this thread because CoT is popular here, apparently XD

I actually am only tangently aware of the route you're talking about, but I can try to look into it. There's several of us all working on different ideas, so sometimes people are talking about stuff that I'm not even aware of being in the code!

I am Developer-approved to be over here speaking "officially" but you better bet that when people start trying to say CoT is something it's not I'm gonna be a bit of an asshole.

Is there any way people can contribute to the game?

 

[CadiaCreations]

Is there any way people can contribute to the game?

Check the Discord, we accept suggestions and contributions there!

 

[Sharkie94]

My dude, no one was arguing whether Patreon's guidelines is bullshit or whether dubcon is in line with it.

In regards to your other points, they aren't equivalent. First off, professors don't just come onto you, you have to literally flirt with them every day for close to what, a month? Before they even proposition you. And you saying no has no impact whatsoever on your academic success. They aren't leveraging their positions as people of authority over you. Hell, if you came back another day, you could ask for a different, nonsexual favor, and they still wouldn't refuse you. You either haven't played the game or you have no concept for why Harvey Weinstein's crimes are so serious.

Secondly, your ability to get drunk doesn't actually impact your character's decision-making skills on a mechanical level. The game makes no attempt to suggest your character's ability to refuse advances or make rational decisions is impaired. Any perceived impaired judgement in reference to consent is something wholly external to the game. Just because the game doesn't prevent you, the player, from having your character engage in sexual activities while "drunk" doesn't mean it's unwholesome. It would be equivalent to you, the player, intentionally killing all the black NPCs in a Sims playthrough and accusing Sims of promoting racist behavior. It's completely backwards reasoning.

But again, just because those things exist in the game, doesn't negate the statement "we kind of feel like we're the more dubcon/consensual roleplay game" and "DoL is for dark noncon, CoT is for more wholesome consent." Do you not know what the word "more" means? More doesn't mean absolute.

Edit: Holdup, I just remembered too, the professors don't even offer to bump your grade for sex. If you're accepting their proposition for no clear benefit, aren't threatened, and have no drawbacks for refusing, what is it if it isn't consent? Are you sure you played this game?

sigh

I brought you back to where my argument started.
Your own little crusade versus some windmills of your own are not of my interest.
Have a nice life.

 

[Sharkie94]

"Professors doing to students exactly what Harvey Weinstein did to actors."

I'm not sure what you're talking about, because uh, that's not in CoT, and we would never do that.

Thanks for playing, though!

A person in power(professor/casting director) - is having sexual relations with a person(student/actor), whose entire future
depends on them. The person is therefore at a severe disadvantage. If you don't see the issue here - then... well... err...
Not sure what I can say.
Because morally it is - without a shadow of a doubt - a gray consent/non-conscent area. No matter how much grind there
is to make the professors act outside their capacity as teachers.

Personally - I don't care either way. Its fiction; and as such, anything is permissible!
But when talking in terms of Patreon - there are no high horses to be had here.

Anyways - you do you - and I wish you the best with this title.

 

[dinuguan42]

I noticed there was a School Uniform set of clothes, so I put that in the Starting set, and then made all the student types wear it as well. Also, all the professors have to wear suits, cause FKU is a respectable institute now.

 

[TerumiNin]

But there's already straight up non-con if you're on the football team...



...also don't think you ever get to play if you don't willingly do something with them? Which is also probably against whatever patreon is fussing about.

 

[Ferghus]

sigh

I brought you back to where my argument started.
Your own little crusade versus some windmills of your own are not of my interest.
Have a nice life.

A person in power(professor/casting director) - is having sexual relations with a person(student/actor), whose entire future
depends on them. The person is therefore at a severe disadvantage. If you don't see the issue here - then... well... err...
Not sure what I can say.
Because morally it is - without a shadow of a doubt - a gray consent/non-conscent area. No matter how much grind there
is to make the professors act outside their capacity as teachers.

Personally - I don't care either way. Its fiction; and as such, anything is permissible!
But when talking in terms of Patreon - there are no high horses to be had here.

Anyways - you do you - and I wish you the best with this title.

Lol, okay. I already addressed your reply to the other guy, but here you are having a little, how did you put it? Oh right, "crusade versus some windmills of your own". Project harder.

 

[Ferghus]

Wait, I though that drunkness lowers your dishinibition requirements when looking for hookups at the quad party or the River Rat, the same way as low release levels. Or at least thats what suggests the way its displayed when you're looking for a partner.

(This is a genuine question btw, I don't want to add anything to this whole argument).

I haven't tested that, but I don't think it counts as noncon unless self-agency is actually reduced.

In real life, it's rape when we can't be sure whether consent can be given when you're under the influence of a mind-altering substance. For example, couples get drunk and have sex all the time, and we generally don't call that rape because their consent is generally affirmed prior to and after the fact, when they're sober. It falls into the question of "is it rape?" (in the context of alcohol consumption) when we're not sure if a person has or has not been been taken advantage of while they're mentally impaired by intoxication. I won't argue that real life is fair to men in rape allegations, regardless of whether they are aggressor or victim, but that's the basic premise of why it can be seen as rape.

However, your ability as a player to decide what your character does and the leve lof consent is something you, the player, imposes on the character. It's not in the game's design to force your character in a drunken state to engage in something they wouldn't normally do, so we can't assume that it's automatically rape just because your character has sex while drunk. If you assert that it's undoubtedly rape, you would be imposing on other players' agency. Like if you're going into the party sober with the goal of indiscriminantly having sex with as many guys or girls you want, regardless of how many beers your character is having, you, the player, know it's not rape. Oppositely, if you choose to be dead drunk and avoid sex altogether, obviously it's not rape.

tl;dr: The rules we have for real life don't apply because your character is perpetually in control of their own actions. They can't actually be impaired by acohol, so they can't actually be taken advantage of, which means it isn't rape just because they're allegedly drunk.

 

[Nerra]

A person in power(professor/casting director) - is having sexual relations with a person(student/actor), whose entire future
depends on them. The person is therefore at a severe disadvantage.

From my experience with the game, it's the MC that has to initiate all sexual encounters with his/her professors.
Which kind of puts a big hole in your assertions that the professors have power over the MC.

 

[BMVV]

Can you not get rid of the men?

 

[Nerra]

Can you not get rid of the men?

You can't completely get rid of any gender.

 

[BMVV]

That's kind of silly.

 

[Nerra]

That's kind of silly.

Why is it silly?
You can make the population of the college predominantly male or female, or trans if you want, but you can't completely eliminate all of any gender.
You're free to make a similar game at an all women's college if you want.

 

[ClaudiaMinx_01]

I haven't tested that, but I don't think it counts as noncon unless self-agency is actually reduced.

In real life, it's rape when we can't be sure whether consent can be given when you're under the influence of a mind-altering substance. For example, couples get drunk and have sex all the time, and we generally don't call that rape because their consent is generally affirmed prior to and after the fact, when they're sober. It falls into the question of "is it rape?" (in the context of alcohol consumption) when we're not sure if a person has or has not been been taken advantage of while they're mentally impaired by intoxication. I won't argue that real life is fair to men in rape allegations, regardless of whether they are aggressor or victim, but that's the basic premise of why it can be seen as rape.

However, your ability as a player to decide what your character does and the leve lof consent is something you, the player, imposes on the character. It's not in the game's design to force your character in a drunken state to engage in something they wouldn't normally do, so we can't assume that it's automatically rape just because your character has sex while drunk. If you assert that it's undoubtedly rape, you would be imposing on other players' agency. Like if you're going into the party sober with the goal of indiscriminantly having sex with as many guys or girls you want, regardless of how many beers your character is having, you, the player, know it's not rape. Oppositely, if you choose to be dead drunk and avoid sex altogether, obviously it's not rape.

tl;dr: The rules we have for real life don't apply because your character is perpetually in control of their own actions. They can't actually be impaired by acohol, so they can't actually be taken advantage of, which means it isn't rape just because they're allegedly drunk.

Oh yeah, totally, in the few non-con scenes in this game, either you're fully in control to just stop it, or the game warns you beforehand, even lets you turn off this kind events completely. So far I agree with you with your last few comments.

I didn't wanted to engage in this discussion because I literally don't understand the premise. The game has rape. It let's you choose to have it or not, but it's rape for our MC within the fictional story of this game. So what? I like it. I understand why some people feel unconfortable with it, that's ok, you can choose to turn it off. You're the one making decisions here, like choosing the content or the way you want to play. I cant fathom why someone should criticize devs for... adding things to their sandbox game?

If anything, non-con and dubious consent is better implemented here than in DoL, because is always depicted as rare and reprehensible behaviour. What's the taboo of rape if you get assaulted 6 times a day, every day; you're breaking my inmersion lol.

And please don't get me started with the "morality" of interactions between characters, or that this game "is or isn't wholesome". For the love of god, we're here actively contributing to a porn game forum. We should calm down, jeez.

 

[Sharkie94]

From my experience with the game, it's the MC that has to initiate all sexual encounters with his/her professors.
Which kind of puts a big hole in your assertions that the professors have power over the MC.

1: MC initiates all encounters
I don't believe professors in the real world be able to use as an argument "Well she asked for it"?
Perhaps you think that is a good defense - I don't.

2: Professors have power of the MC
Uhm... in the real world - the professors are the ones who grades the students.
Which means they don't just have power - they have SERIOUS power. Make or break levels of power.
In fact - the professors have the same, if not more, power than good ol' Harvey.
(and no - "they asked for it" didn't work for Mr Weinstein either.)

 

[Sharkie94]

But there's already straight up non-con if you're on the football team...

View attachment 3572057

...also don't think you ever get to play if you don't willingly do something with them? Which is also probably against whatever patreon is fussing about.

Very poignant excerpt indeed!
I guess things would have to be re-written from scratch in order to satisfy good ol' Patreon.
Because in a court of law - this would absolutely be an open-and-shut R* word.

*(censoring the bad words here, so I can keep this site "more wholesome")