VN Ren'Py Crimson High [v0.39.0] [Vertigo]

[LunarMFox]

About Miri, she's been perceived from the beginning as exactly what I called her earlier, and therefore doesn't inspire much trust. And she still doesn't seem like someone who can be trusted with such secrets. If we talk about the fact that she simply will not be believed, then we can not forget that there are different organizations that, as we have seen, can easily come to the department and arrange an interrogation. And they might as well pay attention and check her out.

Speaking of the twins, I'm not really arguing about the motivation or feelings of the MC, it's what upsets me: 1)We have no choice 2)They look like third rate characters, well second rate at most.

Ori is a sectarian, she's been brainwashed with church crap her whole life, and the MC knows it very well. In fact, even as a child she tried to addict him to it. And on their first date, it's clear that she's in trouble with her head. So even if it was a desperate leap, the risk of losing EVERYONE who matters to you NOW, because of someone you were friends with as a child and haven't seen in years, is absolutely not justified. Moreover, it is a selfish, stupid and immature act.

Since June can't be skipped, it's disappointing. I can understand the idea of her character, but again, maybe it's my personal problem with char design, but I don't see anything charming or cute about her when the MC talks about it. I don't mind loli, even on the contrary I like them in games or anime.Take Hina, for example, the kitten we rescued. She's really adorable. But Jun keeps reminding me why I hate kids IRL.

Hopefully in future updates, there will be more choices and the MC will stop acting like a complete idiot every once in a while. I really like the story, the world and the way it works.

 

[RDFozz]

Speaking of the twins, I'm not really arguing about the motivation or feelings of the MC, it's what upsets me: 1)We have no choice 2)They look like third rate characters, well second rate at most.

Ori is a sectarian, she's been brainwashed with church crap her whole life, and the MC knows it very well. In fact, even as a child she tried to addict him to it. And on their first date, it's clear that she's in trouble with her head. So even if it was a desperate leap, the risk of losing EVERYONE who matters to you NOW, because of someone you were friends with as a child and haven't seen in years, is absolutely not justified. Moreover, it is a selfish, stupid and immature act.

This is much closer to a kinetic novel than a game. There are choices, they do have consequences - but as far as I can tell, they don't significantly alter the flow of the actual story, just minor side activity.

There's every sign that Kana, Kagome, and Jun will be major characters going forward; if your dislike for them is stronger than your like for other characters, this may not be the VN for you.

And it was a bit disturbing that the MC hatched his plan to get Ori exposure to the "demons" she was taught to fear. However, while very late in the process, he did explain his intentions to the twins and Miko, and got their permission to proceed before he went ahead. And he kept Suzu out of it, feeling she'd faced more than her share of risk in the recent past. And, of course, he did have a long history with Ori, and thus may have had an idea of how likely they were to proceed. Plus, this wasn't just a risk of her getting involved with the church more deeply, but of her potentially facing an assault, and winding up held against her will. (Note I am a bit behind, having just met with the MC's dads; after the beach party but before Ori's initiation).

 

[Vladimir_xyz]

where are my updates damn it

 

[LunarMFox]

I understand that. It just seems to me that if you're given a choice, it should affect the plot. Or at least give the illusion that your choices actually affect something. My wife and I once played a VN where we had the choice to spare the assassin sent after us or kill him. She spared, I didn't. Eventually after a couple hours of playing, this guy helped her escape from detention, and told her why the MC was being hunted. Whereas I had to get out on my own, and I didn't find out why I was being hunted until the end of the chapter. Even though it didn't affect the plot, it was interesting to share my impressions. Because our paths sometimes diverged, even though they led us to the same place.

I can still understand why Jun would be a key character. But what's the point of this boring twosome I can't even imagine.

Even getting approval from the girls doesn't make this act any less dumb. Yes he didn't reveal Suzu, but she was there, plus she's already being hunted, but she was lost sight of. Now, this act could potentially reveal where to look for her. So, no matter how you try to defend the MC, the fact is the fact. It was an idiotic act, for the sake of someone from the past. Just put yourself in his shoes. Would you risk the lives of those you care about for someone you last saw 8 years ago? Something tells me I wouldn't. Because it's stupid and common sense against it. (I've gone a little farther than you have, by that I don't know if these actions will bite him in the ass or not. I just hope that the DETECTIVE, in the future, will act rationally and not like an idiot).

 

[Pitrik]

where are my updates damn it

Next week Is public release

 

[Brannon]

I just hope that the DETECTIVE, in the future, will act rationally and not like an idiot).

In thinking that you are pretty alone out there.

From where I'm sitting the decisions he made thus far are quite reasonable and since some were made in urgency at the time even sound.
For instance when rescuing Ori he took up a discussion that not only allowed him to act as a double agent in the future but also erased almost all suspicion (potentially paranoid adversaries excluded) from him and Ori and allowed him to steal valuable loot.

There is a difference between someone being intelligent and someone being clever.
Often they overlap, sometimes they do not.

Or to translate it to simpler terms:
There is "book smart" and "street smart".

The detective may not be extremely intelligent in the scientific way, but he is clever enough to notice that he does not need to be.

 

[LunarMFox]

In thinking that you are pretty alone out there.

From where I'm sitting the decisions he made thus far are quite reasonable and since some were made in urgency at the time even sound.
For instance when rescuing Ori he took up a discussion that not only allowed him to act as a double agent in the future but also erased almost all suspicion (potentially paranoid adversaries excluded) from him and Ori and allowed him to steal valuable loot.

There is a difference between someone being intelligent and someone being clever.
Often they overlap, sometimes they do not.

Or to translate it to simpler terms:
There is "book smart" and "street smart".

The detective may not be extremely intelligent in the scientific way, but he is clever enough to notice that he does not need to be.

Bro, the problem here is that the MC acts like a normal mature person most of the time. And generally has only a positive opinion of him. But these silly actions seem to me to be out of sync with the character we're shown. I myself sometimes write stories to order, or help write scripts. And one of my priorities is that the actions of the character revealed to us (about whom a certain opinion has already been formed) do not diverge from that character, except for good and well thought out plot twists. When the MC asked leading and compromising questions in the cafe and on the beach, it was a good move. Did he want to keep her safe from the damaging influence of the church? Okay, no problem with that, our MC is a good guy after all. But what he did was a huge risk, not for him, but for his surroundings, and even the MC himself realizes a bit later that he fucked up big time (That's literally what he said).
I understand that the author can twist anything in the protagonist's favor, and judging by the spoiler it will happen, but couldn't he have come up with a better plan in a few days?

The difference between intelligence and wisdom, eh? That's a really good and valid point. Except that the act we're discussing was neither intelligent nor wise, but rather naive and ill-considered.

Okay, I've already basically realized that it's probably still not a good idea to view the MC only in terms of the detective archetype. My mistake. It's just a little frustrating when the image of a fairly well-drawn character suffers in order to get the plot moving in the right direction.

P.S.No disrespect to the author, I on the contrary like this work. I just wanted to point out the inconsistency between the character and the actions of the character. No negativity towards interlocutors either, we are all entitled to our own point of view. If I didn't convince you, well, it's not for me to tell you what's right and what's wrong. I was only sharing my thoughts.

 

[Brannon]

I understand that the author can twist anything in the protagonist's favor, and judging by the spoiler it will happen, but couldn't he have come up with a better plan in a few days?

In a few days?
Maybe.
But he literally only had the one chance to do anything about that situation.

If YOU are required to commit to a vital decision NOW do you take your time to think and guarantee the situation you needed to decide on is over?
Maybe at home with a nice cup of tea, your favorite slippers and a sherlock pipe?

In this specific case he went back to instinctual behavior. Like humans under stress tend to do. For instance if a human sees that a tiger is charging at him/her s/he is running in the opposite direction before s/he knows it.
That means that he subconsciously put his childhood friend over new friends that he knew for a week. He still was "smart enough" in this situation to ask for permission.
If he was a total idiot like you said earlier he would not have bothered about that tiny tidbit.

Only when he had time to actually think about it afterwards he noticed that this decision was a gamble.
He knew the decision was not extremely smart, but he had no choice in the matter since the alternative would have been that his childhood friend would be a) introduced into an enemy faction and b) shipped off to an unknown location immediately after.
And the Indoctrination btw. is a "rape gangbang" with a certain virgin girl ...
Plus he only muttered that he fucked up because at that point in time he thought and feared that this gamble did not pay off.

 

[Mommysbuttslut]

But what he did was a huge risk, not for him, but for his surroundings, and even the MC himself realizes a bit later that he fucked up big time (That's literally what he said).

He took a calculated risk that offered a much bigger payout. Even if he had barely seen her since childhood he trusted Ori and for a good reason. Just because we the readers haven't seen all the reasons why doesn't mean they didn't exist. If you think that a character taking a calculated risk is bad writing then your own writing must be hella fucking boring.

 

[Draugo]

I'm sure that most people like her but the whole Ori plot was needles waste of time in my opinion. There are already so many characters that introducing a "childhood friend" out of nowhere was completely unnecessary. Over all I don't like the trope of bringing a long time friend into the picture long after the story has begun. Player or reader does not have the same attachment to that character that the MC has unlike all the other characters that have been along for the journey.

It's one thing if the friend is there from the start and you get to see the interaction when things start to happen but introducing a childhood friend or a friend who just returned from a trip that conveniently started just before the plot started is just a cheat to bring a certain character to the forefront in the MC's eyes and make them do things that they would not do to the other characters. It very rarely works.

If Ori had been there from the start and MC had heard some of the things that the Church had been teaching her about Myths there would have been conflict and doubt for MC when he first entered the world plus a reason to try and get Ori out before it was too late. That would have been interesting. But this "hey, haven't seen you for years... oh you're part of the church that wants to kill all my new friends... oh you will be a full member in couple of days and you hate Myths" breeze through plot line honestly didn't make me care about her at all.

 

[LunarMFox]

If YOU are required to commit to a vital decision NOW do you take your time to think and guarantee the situation you needed to decide on is over?

This "Here and Now" situation was with Suzu in the bathroom. There was really no time to think then. But with Orie, there was time. It wasn't much, but it was there. And if we're talking about the fact that it's an instinctive decision in a stressful situation, then shit, he graduated from the police academy, they're trained to work and make decisions in stressful situations, and not infrequently in practice. We can talk about all this for a long time, and sooner or later wander into deep philosophical thickets.

Plus he only muttered that he fucked up because at that point in time he thought and feared that this gamble did not pay off.

At the time of all this action, the risk had not paid off at all. So when the MC sat on the beach and said he was fucked, he was. And he knew it. And even at the end of it, Orie still wants to be a holy maiden or whatever they'll call her after fucking a holy man. I don't know what happens after that, but whatever it is, there's no way it's going to make me believe it was a good plan.

He took a calculated risk that offered a much bigger payout. Even if he had barely seen her since childhood he trusted Ori and for a good reason. Just because we the readers haven't seen all the reasons why doesn't mean they didn't exist. If you think that a character taking a calculated risk is bad writing then your own writing must be hella fucking boring.

Come on man... You say he calculated everything? (I must have somehow missed the point where he weighed the pros and cons, because I don't remember that). But since the MC calculated the move, why does he later say himself that it wasn't the best idea?
Let me correct you. I was actually saying that I like the way the MC's character was written. And I'll say it again: I like the story as a whole. The only thing I didn't like is that this character's action doesn't mesh with the character himself. To exaggerate, here's an example: our MC shot an innocent man to keep one of the girls secret. Is it possible to build a logical chain so that he made the right choice? Yes, you can. Does this act fit the image of our MC? No.

I guess we'll all stand by our opinions. There is no point in continuing to argue further.

 

[Brannon]

To exaggerate, here's an example: our MC shot an innocent man to keep one of the girls secret. Is it possible to build a logical chain so that he made the right choice? Yes, you can. Does this act fit the image of our MC? No.

The correct answer is not Yes and No.
The correct answer is NO! and no.

I'm not a psychological expert but I'd wager that risking to expose the secret of somebody does not fall into the same category as murdering a person to protect the secret of that somebody.





Back to the point.
Yes MC calculated the move.
Just because he had not minutely explained the calculation to you does not mean it did not happen.

I did not and do not see that action as "foolish" or "idiotic".
As risky, yes.

Similarly I did not and do not see his behavior there as a break in character either.

I'm sure that most people like her but the whole Ori plot was needles waste of time in my opinion. There are already so many characters that introducing a "childhood friend" out of nowhere was completely unnecessary. Over all I don't like the trope of bringing a long time friend into the picture long after the story has begun. Player or reader does not have the same attachment to that character that the MC has unlike all the other characters that have been along for the journey.

It's one thing if the friend is there from the start and you get to see the interaction when things start to happen but introducing a childhood friend or a friend who just returned from a trip that conveniently started just before the plot started is just a cheat to bring a certain character to the forefront in the MC's eyes and make them do things that they would not do to the other characters. It very rarely works.

If Ori had been there from the start and MC had heard some of the things that the Church had been teaching her about Myths there would have been conflict and doubt for MC when he first entered the world plus a reason to try and get Ori out before it was too late. That would have been interesting. But this "hey, haven't seen you for years... oh you're part of the church that wants to kill all my new friends... oh you will be a full member in couple of days and you hate Myths" breeze through plot line honestly didn't make me care about her at all.

You are neglecting one thing.
The church was meant to be an adversary from the very beginning.
The inclusion of Ori was not primarily to give MC yet another girl he can fuck, albeit I bet it was part of the reasoning. It is an AVN after all ...
The main reason was to somehow tie MC to the church and give him a personal reason to fight them and not just because his job ordered him to.

Judging by his character he would have helped Ori to escape the churches clutches without that prior relation, but lacking the will and/or information to ask for that herself MC would have no reason to do so.
By making Ori a childhood friend i.e. a personal prior relation from earlier he does.
Keep in mind she did not ask for a rescue at all and only after all was said and done she expressed her shock about what should have happened to her.

That is called storytelling and despite what I personally think about Ori (she is a shallow girl with no redeeming qualities or special traits that I can see) her inclusion into the story that way was smart.

 

[Draugo]

Yes, it's called storytelling but it's shitty storytelling. There's million ways to get the MC act against the church and sudden surprise childhood friend is one of the worst and definitely far from smart.

How about have the church kidnaps one of the current characters for a ritual requiring MC to act fast because of that, not because he runs into a long lost friend mere days before a deadline.
Or have the church try to recruit in the police force giving the MC a perfect opportunity to act as a spy.
Or maybe run into the two church goons again on another shake up job but this time MC comes on top and gains critical intel that can be acted upon.

I could go on and on with ideas like this, all of which would be better than the current plot because they wouldn't require introducing a character that MC is forced by plot to save without the player having any attachment to them and who will apparently stick around for a long time because of prophecy.

So far most of this game has had a really interesting and well balanced plot. Ori is the complete opposite because she is so clearly just a plot device instead of a character.

 

[Brannon]

How about have the church kidnaps one of the current characters for a ritual requiring MC to act fast because of that, not because he runs into a long lost friend mere days before a deadline.
Or have the church try to recruit in the police force giving the MC a perfect opportunity to act as a spy.
Or maybe run into the two church goons again on another shake up job but this time MC comes on top and gains critical intel that can be acted upon.

Let's evaluate your examples.
The first would be ... odd considering he was barely aware of the church as a threat and the school including the myth classes for some reason are unknown to the church. More directly they are aware THAT the myth are hiding somewhere but don't know WHERE. Plus the superiors would have sent experienced agents to deal with that. Not a new Inquisitor whose training barely started. He "got the job" because it did not involve a myth directly and because he had a prior relationship.
The second example is not feasible as officially MC is not a police officer anymore. As a member that apparently is close to the church "ordered" that such an attempt at spying is doomed from the start.
The third example would be OK, though. IF the goons would lead to critical intel to begin with. Normally low level goons are not in possession of that nor can they get it. The two you are referring to are idiots and I'm relatively certain their superiors know that ...


I agree that Ori is a bit bland.
Very bland even.
But introducing her as a reason he goes after the church much earlier than planned is the best decision the dev could find.
Not the ultimately best there is for the story. But at the end of the day Ori is a young, blonde girl smitten with MC and apparently somewhat OK with a harem ...
I guess that furthered her introduction to the story to some degree.

Again keep two things in mind.
MC apparently is special, but nobody (including MC) knows how, why or to what extend.
MC's training as an Inquisitor barely started.

 

[Draugo]

MC is not a detective anymore but that is basically as new a thing as Ori is.

You did bring up MCs character earlier as well regarding that because of it he was sure to help Ori. Considering that in what world would MC not act even if not ordered to if one of his new friends was kidnapped by the church, he already did a similar thing with the cat girls. Doesn't even have to be that the church knows she's a Myth for certain, mere suspicion is enough and there are enough Myths outside the school that it doesn't matter that they don't know about the school specifically.

There are also enough plot threads going that forcing the church issue was not needed at all at the moment and it could have waited a while yet so even if you really really want to go with Ori there was time to let the situation grow more naturally and let the MC actually reconnect which would make the player want to help Ori instead of being forced to because of the plot. Maybe even without the stupid "these are my friends... btw they are all Myths, the things that you hate with every fiber of your being".

Running into a long lost childhood friend just before something bad is going to happen to them is a cheat or a deus ex machina, take your pick.

 

[Brannon]

MC is not a detective anymore but that is basically as new a thing as Ori is.

You did bring up MCs character earlier as well regarding that because of it he was sure to help Ori. Considering that in what world would MC not act even if not ordered to if one of his new friends was kidnapped by the church, he already did a similar thing with the cat girls. Doesn't even have to be that the church knows she's a Myth for certain, mere suspicion is enough and there are enough Myths outside the school that it doesn't matter that they don't know about the school specifically.

There are also enough plot threads going that forcing the church issue was not needed at all at the moment and it could have waited a while yet so even if you really really want to go with Ori there was time to let the situation grow more naturally and let the MC actually reconnect which would make the player want to help Ori instead of being forced to because of the plot. Maybe even without the stupid "these are my friends... btw they are all Myths, the things that you hate with every fiber of your being".

Running into a long lost childhood friend just before something bad is going to happen to them is a cheat or a deus ex machina, take your pick.

The reason why he was allowed to accompany an experienced agent to rescue manas sister is twofold.
Firstly it was an already known threat to the myth secret agency. They for some reason did not know their location and/or they "allowed" them to continue while gathering evidence.
Secondly he was tasked with lower tasks like surveillance and transporting a single hostage outside. Claws did 99% of the job on her own and MC was only needed for that.

The church however is a "big player" and not a comparatively small family of abusers. Meaning you can't accurately compare those two.


He started to ask for permission mentioning that he was helping a friend, not by mentioning he was attacking a church.
That is a small difference to the ears of a normal person, but psychologically speaking it is bringing the conversation onto the personal track however hard the recipient wants to stay on the professional track.

If he had started with the church he was planning to attack Ronin would have told him to wait at HQ and that Claws will do that.


The church is a major adversary in the story.
Introducing them later would not have worked, and the implementation of Ori permitted MC to go against them far earlier than originally planned.

 

[Draugo]

Every argument that relies on "MC is friends with Ori so that makes him act and lets him go on this mission" would be just as valid if the church had kidnapped one of the established characters that the MC is close to because of the current story and would have actually made the short time table work. Throwing in a new character that forces an action within days is not as organic as something happening right now that needs to be addressed. Each and every time you use MCs friendship with Ori as an excuse replace Ori with any other character and there's no difference.

To me Ori is a plot device that could have been dropped outright without any changes needed and that makes it a flimsy plot device at best.

 

[Brannon]

Every argument that relies on "MC is friends with Ori so that makes him act and lets him go on this mission" would be just as valid if the church had kidnapped one of the established characters that the MC is close to because of the current story and would have actually made the short time table work. Throwing in a new character that forces an action within days is not as organic as something happening right now that needs to be addressed. Each and every time you use MCs friendship with Ori as an excuse replace Ori with any other character and there's no difference.

To me Ori is a plot device that could have been dropped outright without any changes needed and that makes it a flimsy plot device at best.

As said above the church kidnapping a friend of MC would not involve MC in the rescue.
Ronin would have sent Claws and maybe other agents but certainly not the newb Inquisitor that had their very first training session and knows nothing about the enemy, their allies, their weapons/gadgets, ...
She would have ordered him to stay put, Naked Mermaid Myth Q in the R&D section has a potent sleeping gas if he resists that order ...

It is BECAUSE Ori "only" is a human and a childhood friend of MC this part of the story worked in the first place.


As said previously I don't like Ori as a character.
To me she is shallow and not really likeable.
Plus I as a player have no relation to her even if MC does.

BUT I can accept that she is kind of vital for the story.

 

[Creeperswarm]

I hate this visual style but I also cant close the game until current version ends. every time. I guess thats a mark of a good job by the dev

 

[EvolutionKills]

Fucking finally. The only worthwhile thing to drop all week.

EDIT: Also, here is a save at the end of last update for anyone who needed it. It's in slot 1 of page 15.