VN Ren'Py Croft Adventures [v0.6.7c] [PixDES]

[Blurpee69]

That is, in my opinion, information a developers HAS to share with their patrons. And certainly not 6 months into a development cycle. Makes me wonder if the others are still working with him. There was a writer as I recall, who was also active in this thread here. Haven't seen any of them for quite some time.

That devblog is quite the disappointment, not gonna lie. Why is it so hard for developers to be responsible and considerate towards their patrons? Leaving the people who support you financially in the dark is just so...scummy. Really hoping I'm overreacting here and the update is everything people had hoped for.

This game has such massive potential, but doing this kinda stuff with patrons is just...dogshit.

I don't disagree with your sentiment here, but to play devil's advocate for just a second.

• Patrons were informed that there were going to be some rewrites and that they would need more time than normal to accomplish them.
• There was a post just at the beggining of the month saying it was almost complete and they were putting the finishing touches on it.
• Immediately the patrons started demanding to know when the release was despite having pretty consistent updates and teases in the interim between it's going to take a little longer and it's almost done.

That is to say I don't really read this recent post as a statement of abandoment, but one of "hey guys life has been happening, perhaps maybe chill with the demands."

 

[desdraw]

Hello, the fact that I don't write here doesn't mean that my patrons don't know what's happening with the project. As Blurpee69 says, information has been provided about the progress of the work being done. Both I and the writer are working and we don't plan to give up, it's just that the development time is affected by my new work situation and because I also have a personal life. Greetings

 

[palmtrees89]

Hello, the fact that I don't write here doesn't mean that my patrons don't know what's happening with the project.

I don't think anyone is arguing against that. Providing people on F95 with information regarding the development cycle isn't what I was talking about. Tell me if I'm wrong, but your patrons are being provided information via your development blogs on Patreon, right?

the development time is affected by my new work situation and because I also have a personal life. Greetings

Now, if you've been working less on the game due to real life obligations (totally understandable) such as a job, family and everything we all go through on a daily basis, I feel like your patrons should have been informed about things changing behind closed curtains in a timely manner rather than 6 months deep into a development cycle, that is unless you've only started working your new job like a week or two ago.

So basically what I'm saying is that if you've been working a job for months and thus didn't have as much time for the project, patrons should have been informed a long time ago about it simply because it's the right thing to do. You know, instead of leaving them in the dark, charging them month after month. It just gives your supporters a clear picture of what's going on so that they can decide for themselves if they want to keep giving their money to a project that's not been worked on fulltime anymore. That's pretty much all that has changed if I understand it correctly. Moving from fulltime to parttime(?) development.

Again, if this change has occured very recently, you can't be blamed for anything. It just didn't sound like it from reading your latest devblog is all. I guess the amount of reworked and new content in the next update will speak more than a 1000 words, so if I'm wrong on that and I overreacted, I apologize.

 

[Waahnubis]

That is, in my opinion, information a developers HAS to share with their patrons. And certainly not 6 months into a development cycle. Makes me wonder if the others are still working with him. There was a writer as I recall, who was also active in this thread here. Haven't seen any of them for quite some time.

I'm still here and I am still very much working on the script for the game - and, not that I want to answer for Des, but the new situation is not something we have been "hiding for six months". Des very much worked without much break on the images/animations for the game until recently. But as things had to slow down on his end he was forthcoming with the information of a priority change as it happened.

I know we said we wanted to do a 3 month release cycle and I hear the feedback when you say don't bite off more than we can chew. Now, for that I would say:

a) I agree that it would probably be better to adopt a "when it's ready" stance, simply out of the fact that sometimes good ideas pop up that we want to implement or it better into the story and require some rework. Also we wanted to slowly update some of the past content to bring it up to the same level and pacing (also a feedback we got) to the current level. I know this sounds like an excuse (which it partially is), but we kept our Patreons and Discord users up2date through the entire process.

b) I disagree that we bit off more that we can chew - I would just say, to stick with the analogy, the cake is far bigger than anticipated and requires longer chewing/digestion.

Jokes aside, the initial team is still very much invested in the project and wants to see it through - but also we don't want to make any shortcuts or diminish the story that we are trying to tell. Will it take time? Yes.... Would we all like to deliver much more content in a shorter amount of time - also yes but please keep at least in mind that we are not a full-time development studio.

Anyway - my main message is we are still here, invested in our project and don't plan on giving up.

 

[ChipLecsap]

I'm still here and I am still very much working on the script for the game - and, not that I want to answer for Des, but the new situation is not something we have been "hiding for six months". Des very much worked without much break on the images/animations for the game until recently. But as things had to slow down on his end he was forthcoming with the information of a priority change as it happened.

I know we said we wanted to do a 3 month release cycle and I hear the feedback when you say don't bite off more than we can chew. Now, for that I would say:

a) I agree that it would probably be better to adopt a "when it's ready" stance, simply out of the fact that sometimes good ideas pop up that we want to implement or it better into the story and require some rework. Also we wanted to slowly update some of the past content to bring it up to the same level and pacing (also a feedback we got) to the current level. I know this sounds like an excuse (which it partially is), but we kept our Patreons and Discord users up2date through the entire process.

b) I disagree that we bit off more that we can chew - I would just say, to stick with the analogy, the cake is far bigger than anticipated and requires longer chewing/digestion.

Jokes aside, the initial team is still very much invested in the project and wants to see it through - but also we don't want to make any shortcuts or diminish the story that we are trying to tell. Will it take time? Yes.... Would we all like to deliver much more content in a shorter amount of time - also yes but please keep at least in mind that we are not a full-time development studio.

Anyway - my main message is we are still here, invested in our project and don't plan on giving up.

Somehow I always like your response a bit better no offense to Desdraw , feels a bit sincere and humble.

But I would also say this, I still think and forever will think you guys over complicated the plot and that not helping you at all.

Just a big example, I don't know if I ever said it before so maybe I repeat myself.

let's look at the alley scene with the thugs , you create 3 different branching just for that.

A, Lara beat the shit out of them, as she should let's be Real the most Canon Lara Version

B, Lara make a deal with the Dark entity and whore herself out, still out of character at this point and way to early even in narrative standpoint, - but this lead to a different, path already.

C, Lara dies, and either Game over, or she is basically Made a deal with the Devil, come back and now she has to find the thugs and fuck them in order to stay alive, and also it makes her next Dream scene diferent too.

Because of these just 3 different version, the plot the story can't move forward, Instead of going and investigating starting the adventure, make the deal with the investor, for the photoshoot and etc, now she had 3 diferent path ahed of her, that slow the story , and nothing moves forward , but basically the plot just running in a circle

and then we not even mentioned the repeating dreams that kind of boring at this point now, or that oh yeah, Having sex with the black dude or not, also set up different variables.

to complex for the sake of complexity, instead of a coherent storytelling.

if the goal, is just show different sex scenes, with various fetishes then a story might not even needed, and could just be stand alone scenes, like the Halloween update.

don't you think ?

 

[palmtrees89]

I'm still here and I am still very much working on the script for the game - and, not that I want to answer for Des, but the new situation is not something we have been "hiding for six months". Des very much worked without much break on the images/animations for the game until recently. But as things had to slow down on his end he was forthcoming with the information of a priority change as it happened.

I know we said we wanted to do a 3 month release cycle and I hear the feedback when you say don't bite off more than we can chew. Now, for that I would say:

a) I agree that it would probably be better to adopt a "when it's ready" stance, simply out of the fact that sometimes good ideas pop up that we want to implement or it better into the story and require some rework. Also we wanted to slowly update some of the past content to bring it up to the same level and pacing (also a feedback we got) to the current level. I know this sounds like an excuse (which it partially is), but we kept our Patreons and Discord users up2date through the entire process.

b) I disagree that we bit off more that we can chew - I would just say, to stick with the analogy, the cake is far bigger than anticipated and requires longer chewing/digestion.

Jokes aside, the initial team is still very much invested in the project and wants to see it through - but also we don't want to make any shortcuts or diminish the story that we are trying to tell. Will it take time? Yes.... Would we all like to deliver much more content in a shorter amount of time - also yes but please keep at least in mind that we are not a full-time development studio.

Anyway - my main message is we are still here, invested in our project and don't plan on giving up.

Glad to hear from y'all. Safe to say I did overreact then. Gotta say after years of following and supporting several games of which roughly 90% went down the drain one way or another, I tend to expect the worst from developers and their projects. My apologies for assuming the worst. Really happy to hear it's not what I thought it would be.

On a more positive note; The reason these latest news caught me so offguard was simply because I found a real gem in this game and so thinking it would become another one of those '90%' had me really upset. Not like I'm supporting you guys financially (not at this moment anyway) and you owe me nothing, but still. Anyway, just hoping for this project to have a bright future.

 

[Blurpee69]

Somehow I always like your response a bit better no offense to Desdraw , feels a bit sincere and humble.

But I would also say this, I still think and forever will think you guys over complicated the plot and that not helping you at all.

Just a big example, I don't know if I ever said it before so maybe I repeat myself.

let's look at the alley scene with the thugs , you create 3 different branching just for that.

I don't want to speak for either developer, but I believe this was one of the things they wanted to readdress in their rewrites. I know that they felt certain scenes escalated too quickly past where Lara's corruption was realistically at. The glory hole scene was definitely one they mentioned. I don't know if the alley scene really needs it, because it's the spirit that takes control of Lara to whore herself out, it can be handwaved away that she only has fuzzy memories of the encounter because she wasn't in control.

 

[Waahnubis]

Somehow I always like your response a bit better no offense to Desdraw , feels a bit sincere and humble.

But I would also say this, I still think and forever will think you guys over complicated the plot and that not helping you at all.

Just a big example, I don't know if I ever said it before so maybe I repeat myself.

let's look at the alley scene with the thugs , you create 3 different branching just for that.

A, Lara beat the shit out of them, as she should let's be Real the most Canon Lara Version

B, Lara make a deal with the Dark entity and whore herself out, still out of character at this point and way to early even in narrative standpoint, - but this lead to a different, path already.

C, Lara dies, and either Game over, or she is basically Made a deal with the Devil, come back and now she has to find the thugs and fuck them in order to stay alive, and also it makes her next Dream scene diferent too.

Because of these just 3 different version, the plot the story can't move forward, Instead of going and investigating starting the adventure, make the deal with the investor, for the photoshoot and etc, now she had 3 diferent path ahed of her, that slow the story , and nothing moves forward , but basically the plot just running in a circle

and then we not even mentioned the repeating dreams that kind of boring at this point now, or that oh yeah, Having sex with the black dude or not, also set up different variables.

to complex for the sake of complexity, instead of a coherent storytelling.

if the goal, is just show different sex scenes, with various fetishes then a story might not even needed, and could just be stand alone scenes, like the Halloween update.

don't you think ?

Hmmm... probably yes and no.

First things first - the goal is not to just show different sex scenes and fill the gaps in between with an excuse of a story. We try the opposite approach telling an interesting and complex (therefore complicated) story where the sex scenes are actually embedded in the story itself.

And for the example with the alley thugs, to give you a bit of insight - I think this scene got five or more rewrites in the end. First one was mainly caused because it would have been "too risky" for Patreon (where fortunately or unfortunately we get the funding for the game) so we tried some different angles with that. During that a few additional ideas came up that we implemented. Yes it looks overly complicated on the outside, however this scene is not a "one-off" depending on what the actual outcome ends up to be so it will have a few things to find or additional options for Lara later. We actually try to avoid a "snowball" effect of a gazillion paths and I am joining threads at certain points again. Thankfully most variations can be taken care of with different text but the same artwork - if not then usually we decided its too good an opportunity to pass up.
(and yes, Lara beating the shit out of them is the most canon Lara).

The photoshoot (or not, depending on the path you take) will be another good example of multiple ways to get what you want - it was a nightmare to write, but genuinely fun to walk through the branches (which I hope translates into fun to play). Independent on how this ends - it will merge back into the point where Lara finally has a location to go exploring and the adventuring part will start.

Different fetishes are always a double-edeged sword - depending who "asks" loudest at the time of discussion or based on some of the more colorful requests Lara would be a pregnant-bimbo-BBC-slut with tentacles coming out of her ass already. Not down-talking any fetishes here, to each his own, but one of the design choices was, that we try to cater for a few tastes. Which also gives the players more paths to explore.

Whether some find the dreams boring or pointless up to now - I only say that the dreams are a part of the story but will also show you something different starting with the next update.

In general story pacing is tricky and some things will always either be perceived "too early" or "too late" - in the end we try to strike a balance, I leave that up to the players whether we succeed. The mentioned gloryhole definitely was too quick but basically a "leftover" when we started with the assumption of this being a "short little game". Personally I am always trying to find a "reason" why Lara would do the things she does.
- Sex with Niles? -> Lara is a grown woman who can have one-night stands as much as she likes
- doing crazy shit? -> maybe gave in to the corrupting influence too often? Get unconsciously influenced by the artifact?
- being "forced" to solve a problem with sex/naughty stuff? -> there will always be a "no" option with alternative consequences

So far we spent much content/effort of building the world/background and introduce characters that Lara can interact with - takes time yes, but for me it makes a story a bit more compelling and hopefully interesting (well knowing that some will just click through to see the naughty stuff.

Closing this I would say "canon Lara" would probably resist the entity and find alternative approaches to get what she wants (beat the crap out of the thugs, tell Pagonis to go f### himself, etc.) and that option will be there - on the other hand it's fun to play with the idea of Lara giving in to her desires and see where it leads her. Or try the middle ground...

 

[Waahnubis]

Glad to hear from y'all. Safe to say I did overreact then. Gotta say after years of following and supporting several games of which roughly 90% went down the drain one way or another, I tend to expect the worst from developers and their projects. My apologies for assuming the worst. Really happy to hear it's not what I thought it would be.

On a more positive note; The reason these latest news caught me so offguard was simply because I found a real gem in this game and so thinking it would become another one of those '90%' had me really upset. Not like I'm supporting you guys financially (not at this moment anyway) and you owe me nothing, but still. Anyway, just hoping for this project to have a bright future.

All good on my end - I supported my share of Patreon and/or Kickstarter projects that turned out to be a dud in the end. Independent whether someone supports us financially or not I'm always good for a constructive discussion.

 

[Halofromdowntown]

Hello, I wanted to ask, will there be an update in the future or is the game abandoned?

 

[ChipLecsap]

Hello, I wanted to ask, will there be an update in the future or is the game abandoned?

dude, the developers literally posted above your comment,

 

[Reinherz99]

top tier corruption female protag games, its really hard to find a game like this.

 

[pasttrue]

dude, the developers literally posted above your comment,

i don't know it feels like it's abandoned ......... it isn't but feels like it is

 

[Waahnubis]

i don't know it feels like it's abandoned ......... it isn't but feels like it is

It isn't...

 

[DrGrigor]

one of the design choices was, that we try to cater for a few tastes

I would say the problem with this delay is due to too many option available. Sure it might be few taste, but once it branch out it become one huge ass spider web.

I feels like the taste should be limit to 5 at most, but what I seen so far seems to have potential to spiral into hundreds. Nothing personal, but it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Brother Penetrātus]

I would say the problem with this delay is due to too many option available. Sure it might be few taste, but once it branch out it become one huge ass spider web.

I feels like the taste should be limit to 5 at most, but what I seen so far seems to have potential to spiral into hundreds. Nothing personal, but it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

Exactly. Even with just 3 types of behavior (lets say good/bad/neutral) and only 2 possible routes for each behavior,
you will end up with 64 possibilities and 9 possible endings after just 10 cycles.
And a game with just 10 story steps, at least in this genre, would be extremely short...

It would look something like this:



(I know, it's not a correct visualization, but it serves its purpose of an simplified demonstration.)

 

[SonsOfLiberty]

I would say the problem with this delay is due to too many option available. Sure it might be few taste, but once it branch out it become one huge ass spider web.

Not really, they've said why the delay.

it's just that the development time is affected by my new work situation and because I also have a personal life. Greetings

 

[Waahnubis]

I would say the problem with this delay is due to too many option available. Sure it might be few taste, but once it branch out it become one huge ass spider web.

I feels like the taste should be limit to 5 at most, but what I seen so far seems to have potential to spiral into hundreds. Nothing personal, but it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

If you say taste - what would you classify as a "taste"?
Because right now I would say we have: Vanilla, Black, Lesbian and "Weird" - the Lesbian potentially split in Sub/Dom
So that's about five...

Anyway I get what you mean and Brother Penetrātus picture is something I am very well aware off (and actively try to keep in check). Self-reflecting I would say we are guilty of adding stuff here and there that could be seen as "superfluous" at first glance but also adds more depth to the world (and will be also of use later).

Basically you're back at the old problem of "it's just sex" vs. "story depth" - it is something which you can't really please everyone with and where we decided to continue to follow our own vision for the game.

 

[desdraw]

Hello guys, don't look for more possible problems why there is a delay, the problem is that before I dedicated 100% of my time to working on the game and now that's not the case because I had to look for another job for various personal reasons. and this reduced the development time, in this type of game most of the work is 3D work and that is the part that I do. I continue working on the game and will do so until I finish it but unfortunately work is slower now.

 

[palmtrees89]

Hello guys, don't look for more possible problems why there is a delay, the problem is that before I dedicated 100% of my time to working on the game and now that's not the case because I had to look for another job for various personal reasons. and this reduced the development time, in this type of game most of the work is 3D work and that is the part that I do. I continue working on the game and will do so until I finish it but unfortunately work is slower now.

Hello there! I'm curious, does that mean you decided to add more content? I'm asking because roughly 6 weeks ago, one of your devblogs started off with this:

"now we will work on assembling everything in the game, adding details and sounds..."

That sounded like you're pretty much ready to wrap it up (scenes were finished?). :O

(I can't read the entire devblog, so I really can't tell what exactly is going on. I'm currently just a pirate for this project )