Java Cultivation Spiral [Release 2d - Justice] [CSdev]

[c4145317]

Congrats! It looks like I should try to write a proper scene to go with preventing the abduction as soon as I can.

Thanks, it was hard. Spent something like 14 hours perfecting d1-d32. It was surprisingly underwhelming due to the loss of MoL from the two achievements related to finding Tanaka and the lack of triumphant stance.

There is also a noticable lag when selecting a save file in the menu. Is it calculating the data that is being shown on the right when it's being selected? It so, that data should be saved in a convenient manner when the save is created so it doesn't need to do that.

I noticed that the saves were getting larger each loop, mine are nearing 10MB that was release e's saves. They're 16 MB and my saves folder is 480 MB. , and the "buffering" period in opening the save/load menu was getting longer with filesize. So, I opened one up in notepad++, because I'm cool, and found that most of the save files' lines are logs of every single event you've seen in plain text. I suppose this is how the game knows if you've seen a particular line or not. I also figure the menu is unresponsive because the game is busy loading all this text from whatever save you have selected. I did try do delete a hefty section of these lines and load that to save space/time, but the game didn't like it.

Rather than doing Debate/Endurance Training/Game Dev on a loop, I find it's better to do Debate/Endurance/Tower-Sleep or Sleep-Tower to grind academics at the same time. As charisma, endurance and academics multiply each other, it's more effective. Focus just increases the rate you're finishing the event, so it's not as good to prioritize, and it's better to focus after you finish Trained Body.

I think I was doing single or double academics training a day at that point. I either didn't mention it due to rambling or me being a dumb. Focus is important because each level does increase Yumeno relationship gains, enables more MoL from dame dev, and allows you to finish the endurance training and lab goals in a reasonable time, they were 150k and 200k respectively in that version iirc.
My goal back then was to get a level up in an attribute within 1-2 time slots, so alternating them while academics was slowly rising was desirable. These days I do just rush endurance training because it's EZPZ and I want all the added gains I can get as fast as I can.

 

[lifestrider]

Thanks, it was hard. Spent something like 14 hours perfecting d1-d32. It was surprisingly underwhelming due to the loss of MoL from the two achievements related to finding Tanaka and the lack of triumphant stance.


I noticed that the saves were getting larger each loop, mine are nearing 10MB that was release e's saves. They're 16 MB and my saves folder is 480 MB. , and the "buffering" period in opening the save/load menu was getting longer with filesize. So, I opened one up in notepad++, because I'm cool, and found that most of the save files' lines are logs of every single event you've seen in plain text. I suppose this is how the game knows if you've seen a particular line or not. I also figure the menu is unresponsive because the game is busy loading all this text from whatever save you have selected. I did try do delete a hefty section of these lines and load that to save space/time, but the game didn't like it.


I think I was doing single or double academics training a day at that point. I either didn't mention it due to rambling or me being a dumb. Focus is important because each level does increase Yumeno relationship gains, enables more MoL from dame dev, and allows you to finish the endurance training and lab goals in a reasonable time, they were 150k and 200k respectively in that version iirc.
My goal back then was to get a level up in an attribute within 1-2 time slots, so alternating them while academics was slowly rising was desirable. These days I do just rush endurance training because it's EZPZ and I want all the added gains I can get as fast as I can.

Does Focus increase Yumeno's relationship gains?? I thought Yumeno relationship impacted focus, but focus didn't impact relationship, only Charisma does that. Rushing Trained Body makes sense though.

 

[c4145317]

Does Focus increase Yumeno's relationship gains?? I thought Yumeno relationship impacted focus, but focus didn't impact relationship, only Charisma does that. Rushing Trained Body makes sense though.

No, I was totally wrong there. Sorry, must've been mindfucked after everything that went into preventing the abduction and taking a break from the game for a while afterwards. There's a calculator of sorts you can use in statistics under simulation to doublecheck all your gains and plan accordingly.

 

[selectivepaperclip]

The responsiveness is MUCH better in the later versions! I just jointed the $5 patreon, and R1h is so much better. I skipped g, so maybe it doesn't have the improvement yet.

Agreed that the latest Patreon version is significantly improved. I imagine there's still a lot of room for optimization, though it's weird to even have to worry about "optimizing" a text-only game.

 

[kkai]

I see this in the 1g changelog:

-Interface: The background theme may now be toggled regardless of the current game phase.

and I believe this is the feature we discussed here:

Currently, the color scheme changes according to which part of the story you're at. But because those color schemes are already implemented in the first place, it shouldn't be too hard to add an option to just use one of them all the time. It's on my to-do list.

But I cannot find a way to set it in the Options. What am I overlooking? Thanks.

 

[CSdev]

Yeah my bad it was the latter. Protagonist gender seems to have switched to male when I loaded a save file to check the h-scene. Rechecked again, seems to be working perfectly! My main confusion arose due to the fact that there were some images in the default pack that had no female mc counterpart so they didn't end up getting overwritten and stayed there.

Glad to hear that it's working for you!

I know that the dev wants to 'save space' but ffs can there be more reward (eg the PORN) for some of the levels/goals that we reach? Also, the increasing cost of the loop rewards should be toned down slightly.

There'll definitely be more "fanservice" type moments sprinkled along the main route, but I wanted to put most the sexual content in the optional romance paths just so that people have the option of focusing on whichever love interest they prefer.

Started this game last night and it ate up hours and hours like nothing.

Not sure I want to continue though, the responsiveness of the UI is godawful, and the added progress on subsequent loops was less than I'd hoped for.

I know this probably seems like a tall order, but ever consider rewriting in HTML/JS? If the performance issues are really with drawing the UI, that issue would vanish. The game would also be a lot more accessible.

Then again, I looked at the source code and found that most of the logic is a wild pile of if/else statements in functions that are

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. holy guacamole

I made it in Java because Java is what I was familiar with. I'm definitely far from a professional coder.

I feel like this should have been said awhile ago, but the save and load button should be two separate buttons and not one mixed button.
Something like this:
View attachment 4850376

There is also a noticable lag when selecting a save file in the menu. Is it calculating the data that is being shown on the right when it's being selected? It so, that data should be saved in a convenient manner when the save is created so it doesn't need to do that.
View attachment 4850380

Because of how the autosave works, it felt strange to have a separate save button. You're only ever in danger of losing progress if you switch to another save file and start playing that one.

Regarding the save menu, it is indeed loading the entire save when you select it. The way that the required time goes up as the number of loops does is definitely a problem that needs to be solved in a later version. It seems like the main factor in the loading time is the way that the game saves your entire sequence of actions starting from Loop 1, but it's only necessary to do that if you want to share your path with other players, and most players probably aren't interested in doing that. Without that info being stored, the delay wouldn't be noticeable.

Thanks, it was hard. Spent something like 14 hours perfecting d1-d32. It was surprisingly underwhelming due to the loss of MoL from the two achievements related to finding Tanaka and the lack of triumphant stance.

Yes, keeping Tanaka in the College Town will be a lot more useful once it becomes possible to interact with the College Town characters after Day 100.

I see this in the 1g changelog:

and I believe this is the feature we discussed here:

But I cannot find a way to set it in the Options. What am I overlooking? Thanks.

That's a mistake on my part - I copied the R1h changelog into the first post instead of the R1g changelog. It's fixed now.

 

[kkai]

That's a mistake on my part - I copied the R1h changelog into the first post instead of the R1g changelog. It's fixed now.

Gotcha. Okay, I'm looking forward to R1h then. It's just a little too bright for me to play right now. Hopefully that feature will help me out! Thanks again.

 

[Cryomaniac]

I'm at about this point. A good tip is to use the day you use Trained Body's +25 health to be the day you finish the "Help Jackal" find Tanaka event with Self Destructive. (For other people reading this, you get Trained Body from finishing the Endurance Training event) Because you're turning it on that day, you get the health pool to use Help Jackal, while also benefiting from the massive bonus of Self Destructive to probably finish the event in one go.

Rather than doing Debate/Endurance Training/Game Dev on a loop, I find it's better to do Debate/Endurance/Tower-Sleep or Sleep-Tower to grind academics at the same time. As charisma, endurance and academics multiply each other, it's more effective. Focus just increases the rate you're finishing the event, so it's not as good to prioritize, and it's better to focus after you finish Trained Body.

Another big strategy thing I've developed for days 60-90 to separate Larceny/Generous and ECC/Self-Destructive for focusing on events with <40 stamina, like loitering/dancing for charisma mastery, country club events, and Stand Guard. ECC/Self-Destructive is for focusing >40 stamina events, like Attend Dumont, Debate, Endurance Training, develop video game, and academic tower events. The academic tower events usually finish last, so I'll swap to Larceny/Self-Destructive to grind them out at the end.

Thanks for this comment, it helped me refine my strategies a lot!

Might I suggest focusing on academic tower events earlier? It feels like leveling Academics and Charisma earlier should be the top priority because it basically multiplies your number gain exponentially the higher it is, and so the earlier it gets levelled up the more your entire run benefits from it.

 

[ApexGryphon]

So, just want to say I am absolutely loving this game so far. I've played Corrupted Saviors on and off for a few years now, and didn't even realize this game was from CSDev at first.

Possible spoiler warning?
I've finally managed to get to the metropolis on loop 18 (nothing amazing I know), but I feel like I must be missing some massive function or something. I've never once managed to level charisma to even rank 1. Like... it's such a massive time sink to level at all that I can't do anything else. Especially without any friendship to Tanaka, there's no boosts to be had.

Am I missing something here, or is it intentionally useless 'early game' as I am.

 

[c4145317]

Am I missing something here, or is it intentionally useless 'early game' as I am.

I want to say that I first leveled it at loop 25ish. I dunno, it's been a while. Early game Tanaka & Master Your Popularity related activities certainly make it rough. You'll have an easier time at it once you buy a good amount of stamina and focus upgrades which will allow you to unlock debating with Hashi and courting with Tanaka. You'll probably be able to level it now if you make use of the weekend activity(s) in the city (the (s) is due to one of the two requiring heavy Dumont investment, the other shares the meet with Tanaka timeslot).

 

[lifestrider]

Might I suggest focusing on academic tower events earlier? It feels like leveling Academics and Charisma earlier should be the top priority because it basically multiplies your number gain exponentially the higher it is, and so the earlier it gets levelled up the more your entire run benefits from it.

I agree, to a degree! I mix Debate(CHA), Endurance Training (VIT) and tower/sleep or sleep/tower for Academic for my first Self Destructive/Eye Catching Clothes focus. The idea is that CHA increases the rate of Heilig relationship gain, which increases the rate of Endurance Training and academic gains, Endurance Training rapidly also increases vitality, maximizing how much stamina can be burned in a day, which is a major limiting factor, and doing a single Tower is about as much as can be afforded, and quickly multiplies itself, charisma, and vit gains. Doing all three at once expands capacity much quicker than just tower by itself.

Eye catching clothes are VERY valuable, as rewards scale with stamina spent, but it's EXTREMELY stamina hungry. Endurance training alone is 120 stamina a pop, maximum! But, on the other side, the amount of vitality and Heilig relation provided is unparalleled. But yeah, it makes it so you really need that early Vitality to get as much out of it as possible. Before I realized the bit about rewards scaling with stamina spent, I thought the video game console equipment was great, but I actually don't even bother to unlock it anymore. Generally speaking, the more stamina you can burn and recover every day, the better off you are. This is somewhat balanced by relationship gain sleep events, like leave the door unlock, snooze with Hashimoto, and sleep over with Yumeno.

 

[Cryomaniac]

I agree, to a degree! I mix Debate(CHA), Endurance Training (VIT) and tower/sleep or sleep/tower for Academic for my first Self Destructive/Eye Catching Clothes focus. The idea is that CHA increases the rate of Heilig relationship gain, which increases the rate of Endurance Training and academic gains, Endurance Training rapidly also increases vitality, maximizing how much stamina can be burned in a day, which is a major limiting factor, and doing a single Tower is about as much as can be afforded, and quickly multiplies itself, charisma, and vit gains. Doing all three at once expands capacity much quicker than just tower by itself.

Eye catching clothes are VERY valuable, as rewards scale with stamina spent, but it's EXTREMELY stamina hungry. Endurance training alone is 120 stamina a pop, maximum! But, on the other side, the amount of vitality and Heilig relation provided is unparalleled. But yeah, it makes it so you really need that early Vitality to get as much out of it as possible. Before I realized the bit about rewards scaling with stamina spent, I thought the video game console equipment was great, but I actually don't even bother to unlock it anymore. Generally speaking, the more stamina you can burn and recover every day, the better off you are. This is somewhat balanced by relationship gain sleep events, like leave the door unlock, snooze with Hashimoto, and sleep over with Yumeno.

There's an even better version of eye catching clothes you'll be able to get eventually. Make sure to keep an eye out for it! I used to sleep on it before but it boosted my levels so much xD

 

[lifestrider]

There's an even better version of eye catching clothes you'll be able to get eventually. Make sure to keep an eye out for it! I used to sleep on it before but it boosted my levels so much xD

I've got the ostentatious clothes at some point, I keep intending to compare the benefits but have been forgetting. It's honestly probably much better in the long run!

 

[TofuCircle]

I noticed that the saves were getting larger each loop, mine are nearing 10MB that was release e's saves. They're 16 MB and my saves folder is 480 MB. , and the "buffering" period in opening the save/load menu was getting longer with filesize. So, I opened one up in notepad++, because I'm cool, and found that most of the save files' lines are logs of every single event you've seen in plain text. I suppose this is how the game knows if you've seen a particular line or not. I also figure the menu is unresponsive because the game is busy loading all this text from whatever save you have selected. I did try do delete a hefty section of these lines and load that to save space/time, but the game didn't like it.

So every single line of every event is saved in the save file? Since it's capable of scanning the text, could it be shortened? Like:

Tanaka scene 1 page 3
or
Ts1p3
or even T1p3
to save even more space. Though the dev will probably have to keep a separate file recording what the letters translate to.

Stick something like that in invisible text at the very top of the page. Instead of having the game scan the entire page, have it scan that one line and compare it to the save file. For new variants of scenes due to the looping,

Tanaka scene 1 page 3 variant 2 characters 45-80
T1p3 v2 45-80

Then it highlights characters 45 to 80. If this is possible, it should make the text skipping and saves smoother?

 

[lifestrider]

New record for R1h, 673 a pop for 77k invested MOL. After some reworking, I got a big boost out of switching to Ostentatious Clothes as soon as was feasible. I'm not sure if the 100 for truthseeker was in R1g, it was only 10 in R1f.

 

[Lillibilli]

Can the changelog for R1h be shared?
Or at least is the savegame bloat issue been resolved?
Kinda pointless to try playing much on this as I'm already feeling the effects on loop 20 make the game unplayable and wanted to know if next month I will have better luck or I need to wait more.

Bugs:
Skipping a day with One Day auto function has wierd interactions with actions that are going to complete a goal, the skip kinda rolls back.

Feedback/suggestions:
If the savegame bloat is not fixed for R1h, instructions on how to trim the fat would be nice, if it is possible without breaking the saves.

The early game is harsh, and I feel it discourages deviation from a singular strategy that works (regardless if that is in fact the best strategy).
Charisma stands out as incredibly hard to level up, which makes the bonus for getting Tanaka the first time hollow at best.
Academics are unlocked far too late into a loop to feel it is worth the investment with the limited time there is, and I never have been able to level it up, let alone turn it useful.
In addition the loop upgrades hit a diminishing return way too fast for the current implementation to feel useful, after level 10 they don't feel worth the return on investment anymore. (note that I used the word feel intentionally, more mathematically minded people might not feel this is an issue)
My suggestion would be to make the loop upgrades be useful at level 0, so each loop starts you in a better place and make Charisma and Academics useful without overfarming MoL for other upgrades first, may require significant rebalancing but I feel it would be worth it to make the game feel more rewarding.

The only upgrade I felt was significant enough to change my early game was the early unlock of DuMont, I would like to see more early unlock upgrades to shake up the initial strategy (be it early meetings or outright Routines unlocks).

A way to close the loop early (besides loading and losing progress) would be appriciated when I'm at day 50 and realize I got no chance to do anything useful in that run.

The Next button for skipping a day with One Day settings requires Begin to be pressed before, would be nice if this click was not required, this also affects the Routine/Achivement/Calendar/Stats buttons.

Save/Load menu is unintuitive at best, a dedicated and separate Save and Load button would be nice, especially when making custom saves.

A way to outright skip instead of just auto-forward the scenes would make MoL farming loops feel less like a chore and inprove repleiability (or I assume it would, it is far too slugish for me now on loop 20 to play).

A way to independently activate auto-forward stoppers would be nice in case I want both condition to stop it.

 

[lifestrider]

Can the changelog for R1h be shared?
Or at least is the savegame bloat issue been resolved?
Kinda pointless to try playing much on this as I'm already feeling the effects on loop 20 make the game unplayable and wanted to know if next month I will have better luck or I need to wait more.

Bugs:
Skipping a day with One Day auto function has wierd interactions with actions that are going to complete a goal, the skip kinda rolls back.

Feedback/suggestions:
If the savegame bloat is not fixed for R1h, instructions on how to trim the fat would be nice, if it is possible without breaking the saves.

The early game is harsh, and I feel it discourages deviation from a singular strategy that works (regardless if that is in fact the best strategy).
Charisma stands out as incredibly hard to level up, which makes the bonus for getting Tanaka the first time hollow at best.
Academics are unlocked far too late into a loop to feel it is worth the investment with the limited time there is, and I never have been able to level it up, let alone turn it useful.
In addition the loop upgrades hit a diminishing return way too fast for the current implementation to feel useful, after level 10 they don't feel worth the return on investment anymore. (note that I used the word feel intentionally, more mathematically minded people might not feel this is an issue)
My suggestion would be to make the loop upgrades be useful at level 0, so each loop starts you in a better place and make Charisma and Academics useful without overfarming MoL for other upgrades first, may require significant rebalancing but I feel it would be worth it to make the game feel more rewarding.

The only upgrade I felt was significant enough to change my early game was the early unlock of DuMont, I would like to see more early unlock upgrades to shake up the initial strategy (be it early meetings or outright Routines unlocks).

A way to close the loop early (besides loading and losing progress) would be appriciated when I'm at day 50 and realize I got no chance to do anything useful in that run.

The Next button for skipping a day with One Day settings requires Begin to be pressed before, would be nice if this click was not required, this also affects the Routine/Achivement/Calendar/Stats buttons.

Save/Load menu is unintuitive at best, a dedicated and separate Save and Load button would be nice, especially when making custom saves.

A way to outright skip instead of just auto-forward the scenes would make MoL farming loops feel less like a chore and inprove repleiability (or I assume it would, it is far too slugish for me now on loop 20 to play).

A way to independently activate auto-forward stoppers would be nice in case I want both condition to stop it.

It's substantially better. The saves are smaller and the lag is much better. I kinda like farming MoL, but yours is a perfectly reasonable perspective.

Relevant portion of the R1h changelog:
"In addition to the little bit of new content, there are also some minor additions and improvements to the game's interface. Some code optimizations written by TheUnwiseSage have been added to the game, and now the menus (especially the Next Loop menu) no longer have as much noticeable lag as they did before. It's also now possible to directly choose which background theme color you want to use, regardless of which phase of the game you're in."

 

[Lillibilli]

Having slept on it some more feedback/suggestions came to mind:
The loop end screen could use a overhaul, at the very least an explicit scrolling bar would be useful, but it being more organized (tabs maybe?) would be nice as more upgrades are added.
Additionally I feel the screen would be better served by vertical scrolling instead of horizontal scrolling, and the boxes could use less spacing between them to save a bit of space.
Personally I would make the explanation screen smaller too, other than the Wake Up description only a third is used.
Health and Stamina bar have no real reason to be on screen at this point.
A total for the current loop MoL gained would be nice to have already calculated near the amount you have carried over.

Jackal first meeting lacks a counter for actually impressing her and skipping a one or more phases of training, with overprogress seemingly going into the clue finding instead.
In addition while on the Yumeno side there are variations if you began training with Jackal, there are no variations if you began or completed Yumeno's mall ninja training. I imagine trying to use Monkey Steals Peaches, successfully or otherwise, on Jackal would have funny results.

Some end of loop upgrades to the Routines themselves would be another nice way to shake up the strategy.

 

[TofuCircle]

Is there any point to the Cause trouble action in metropolis? Is that the end of the current story and I should just use triumphant and daydream?

 

[c4145317]

Is there any point to the Cause trouble action in metropolis? Is that the end of the current story and I should just use triumphant and daydream?

More finance levels, it also helps nuke your HP to continue abusing self destructive. Daydream has, surprise surprise, diminishing returns. Daydreaming grants MoL on the current MoL it grants plus the next one, so to get 21 MoL from daydreaming you need 241 daydreams, 263 for 22. With Triumphant and 4 slots to daydream we're looking at 20 daydreams a day.
I usually devote the last 30-35 days for daydreaming. That nets me 34-37 MoL. It's a question of sitting back and doing the math to see if it's faster to gain fitness, finance, or charisma levels compared to x days worth of daydreaming.
Here's a cheatsheet you can reference:


I tried to paste that in, but I completely lack the necessary skills to do so and have it not look like ass