Ren'Py Dark Magic [v0.20.1] [F. Lord]

[Rosen King]

Again, games here get the abandoned tag not always because the dev has explicitly abandoned them, but because there has been either no update released for 18 months, or no communication regarding the game for three months. And in those cases, the mods are not necessarily watching for that to happen, but relying on someone reporting that the game has reached that status, which is why at least one person here can almost certainly say, "But Dev xyzpdq hasn't mentioned the game or been actively talking on their Patreon for six months"; dont tell us, tell a mod or just be patient....

And the dev just made a post on their Patreon talking about continued progress of the game, so yeah, there's no real reason to think it's abandoned.

 

[LochRaven]

Shame the dev has hit such a slow pace but at least it's not completely abandoned. Fingers crossed they get their groove back eventually. Won't be supporting on Patreon anytime soon, but no reason to lose interest entirely just yet.

A few pages back a post was shared where the dev teased a new Yamiyo scene so rest assured I'll be here whenever the next update finally drops.

 

[Crevanille]

After reading the dev's latest post... I, honestly have no clue what to think or feel.
Okay, indie dev, hard times, the struggle is real... I get all that, and I 'do' sympathize... but... at the same time, is it worth even expecting anything from them at this point? Cynical, I know... but can you blame me?

Well, here's to hoping things turn out better for them in their personal life, if nothing else.

 

[my5tyfixx]

how....why....NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! makes me so sooooo sad to see one of the best honesselect games being abandoned...

wack days inc. bois

 

[Joey's Conscience]

After reading the dev's latest post... I, honestly have no clue what to think or feel.
Okay, indie dev, hard times, the struggle is real... I get all that, and I 'do' sympathize... but... at the same time, is it worth even expecting anything from them at this point? Cynical, I know... but can you blame me?

Well, here's to hoping things turn out better for them in their personal life, if nothing else.

I've learned to sympathize at this point. Sure, there are scummy devs out there, but I think most of them do have good intentions but face problems along the way.

If you develop as a side-job, having the willpower to work on something on your free time when you're supposed to be resting is hard enough. If you do this full-time, you probably can't talk about your job with friends and family, and have to deal with hundreds of faceless clients giving some constructive, but mostly destructive criticism.

You go in hoping to make figures like DarkCookie, and end up making a few hundred bucks a month, realising the market is super crowded, and your game doesnt stand out like you hoped it would.

Not saying being a dev is a horrible job or anything, but I can see why so many games get abandoned. I think a lot of people (aspiring devs included) picture this as being way easier than it actually is.

 

[Akabakka]

I've learned to sympathize at this point. Sure, there are scummy devs out there, but I think most of them do have good intentions but face problems along the way.

If you develop as a side-job, having the willpower to work on something on your free time when you're supposed to be resting is hard enough. If you do this full-time, you probably can't talk about your job with friends and family, and have to deal with hundreds of faceless clients giving some constructive, but mostly destructive criticism.

I dunno ... the minute you turn you side development project or hobby into a paid product .. be it early access , patronage or whatever ... you owe it to customers (so not even most of us F95 dwellers) to at least communicate in some form , regularly , no matter what . Exceptions being stuff like health issues obviously , especially if you got no one to communicate on your behalf .

For other non Force Majeure issues , no excuses works . Sure you might not want to give private details , especially about your daily job , family and friends ... it's fair . But simple fairly regular check-ins like "hey the project is still alive" "there will be a delay for XX time" should happen . Of course yeah there would still be criticism and some toxicity even , but still keeping people in the loop is respectful enough (Unless of course you're just stringing people along with regular false updates and commitments , like some smartasses do) .

Whatever dark times you're in , whatever the struggles , or potential burnout , or even whatever fear and anxiety over dealing with customers , there is no way someone can tell me that a dev can't take the time of a commercial ad break to message something in months .

 

[Joey's Conscience]

I dunno ... the minute you turn you side development project or hobby into a paid product .. be it early access , patronage or whatever ... you owe it to customers (so not even most of us F95 dwellers) to at least communicate in some form , regularly , no matter what . Exceptions being stuff like health issues obviously , especially if you got no one to communicate on your behalf .

For other non Force Majeure issues , no excuses works . Sure you might not want to give private details , especially about your daily job , family and friends ... it's fair . But simple fairly regular check-ins like "hey the project is still alive" "there will be a delay for XX time" should happen . Of course yeah there would still be criticism and some toxicity even , but still keeping people in the loop is respectful enough (Unless of course you're just stringing people along with regular false updates and commitments , like some smartasses do) .

Whatever dark times you're in , whatever the struggles , or potential burnout , or even whatever fear and anxiety over dealing with customers , there is no way someone can tell me that a dev can't take the time of a commercial ad break to message something in months .

Being understanding of a behaviour is not the same as endorsing said behaviour. If a poor woman steals from a store to feed her child, stealing is still bad, but I can understand why she did it. (yes, an exageratted analogy, but just to drive the point home)

Of course devs should communicate, of course they should be transparent. But I can still understand how they'd get burned out from the whole thing, and end up choosing to not deal with it. At the end of the day, anyone thats unhappy can pull their support. Sure, it sucks for Patrons that your investment didn't pan out, but that's a risk you should be aware of. You chose to put your faith in someone you don't know, but sometimes they just aren't cut out to see the project through.

 

[Akabakka]

It's fine if a project does not pan out and someone drifts away from it . But at the end of the day , being burnt out and defeated , and keeping people in the loop are separate matters . One involves having a shred of respect for others , however the project ends up . Even if its to deliver only bad news

I have zero goodwill toward someone that would go AWHOL for many months and randomly comes back to say "Hey guys please understand my life sucked !" .
That said the meter is at zero , does not mean it could never go up again . But it would take some massive effort and shift in behavior

 

[RDFozz]

I dunno ... the minute you turn you side development project or hobby into a paid product .. be it early access , patronage or whatever ... you owe it to customers (so not even most of us F95 dwellers) to at least communicate in some form , regularly , no matter what . Exceptions being stuff like health issues obviously , especially if you got no one to communicate on your behalf .

For other non Force Majeure issues , no excuses works . Sure you might not want to give private details , especially about your daily job , family and friends ... it's fair . But simple fairly regular check-ins like "hey the project is still alive" "there will be a delay for XX time" should happen . Of course yeah there would still be criticism and some toxicity even , but still keeping people in the loop is respectful enough (Unless of course you're just stringing people along with regular false updates and commitments , like some smartasses do) .

Whatever dark times you're in , whatever the struggles , or potential burnout , or even whatever fear and anxiety over dealing with customers , there is no way someone can tell me that a dev can't take the time of a commercial ad break to message something in months .

Lots of people can relate to the following: there's someone you intend to be in contact with. You get busy, and suddenly realize that you haven't been in touch for a long time. The weight of making contact again becomes that much bigger, and gets scary. You find it easier to put off than to do. Every time it pops back into your head, it becomes that much more important, and that much harder to do.

Also - if you've ever been really depressed, you know that the hardest thing to do is to talk yourself into doing things that could resolve your depression.

Neither may exactly correlate to why devs fall out of touch with their audience, but I do suspect they should inform the discussion.

 

[Motoko Kusanagi]

No one is ever too depressed to pick up a Patreon check though.

 

[Akabakka]

Lots of people can relate to the following: there's someone you intend to be in contact with. You get busy, and suddenly realize that you haven't been in touch for a long time. The weight of making contact again becomes that much bigger, and gets scary. You find it easier to put off than to do. Every time it pops back into your head, it becomes that much more important, and that much harder to do.

Also - if you've ever been really depressed, you know that the hardest thing to do is to talk yourself into doing things that could resolve your depression.

Neither may exactly correlate to why devs fall out of touch with their audience, but I do suspect they should inform the discussion.

I get that , but there is a major difference here , those case of drifting apart don't involve money and any responsibility . At least usually .
I understand fear , anxiety and shame from having let things fester , and not keeping touch , and it snowballing . However this involves money . I can empathize to someone's struggle over this ... but there is a limit . Like the good Major said , somehow , there is no such hangs up about still taking the money , while being gone , for many devs in that situation . Again ultimately it is also and foremost a matter of respect for the people that did support them .

 

[RDFozz]

I get that , but there is a major difference here , those case of drifting apart don't involve money and any responsibility . At least usually .
I understand fear , anxiety and shame from having let things fester , and not keeping touch , and it snowballing . However this involves money . I can empathize to someone's struggle over this ... but there is a limit . Like the good Major said , somehow , there is no such hangs up about still taking the money , while being gone , for many devs in that situation . Again ultimately it is also and foremost a matter of respect for the people that did support them .

To clarify - given that this became a business relationship once they set up a Patreon account, none of that excuses their behavior.

However, I'm not sure how Patreon payments are handled. I can't say for sure that all devs in this sort of situation take in the money actively. If it auto transfers to an account, that requires no action to receive the money, but requires action to stop receiving it (and what I've laid out implies a paralysis that could prevent action). I believe that on itch.io, you have to log in and withdraw the money your project has earned; a dev truly paralyzed into inaction presumably wouldn't withdraw that money (although itch payments are a one-time thing, not an on-going financial relationship).

Turning off Patreon payments for a while would be appropriate in many if not all cases - but requires taking action, presuming including some sort of message to indicate that they aren't actively working on things now.

Note that subbing on Patreon is agreeing to send money to a person, not for a project. Many devs set up rewards for various support levelsb however, i dont necessarily believe Patreon requires them to make good on the rewards promised. I didn't see language like I saw when I participated on Kickstarter recently; they explicitly say that the various rewards promised for support are not Kickstarter's responsibility and aren't enforced by Kickstarter in any way. My assumption has always been that Patreon is operating on the same principles; you decide to give Joe Shmoe money, and he has no actual obligation to do squat about it.

Again - once the dev makes it a business relationship by setting up on Patreon, it is rude and unethical (in my opinion) to keep taking money if whatever you promised isn't being delivered. There's only one thing supporters can do about, and that's choosing to stop their support.

 

[Crevanille]

To clarify - given that this became a business relationship once they set up a Patreon account, none of that excuses their behavior.

However, I'm not sure how Patreon payments are handled. I can't say for sure that all devs in this sort of situation take in the money actively. If it auto transfers to an account, that requires no action to receive the money, but requires action to stop receiving it (and what I've laid out implies a paralysis that could prevent action). I believe that on itch.io, you have to log in and withdraw the money your project has earned; a dev truly paralyzed into inaction presumably wouldn't withdraw that money (although itch payments are a one-time thing, not an on-going financial relationship).

Turning off Patreon payments for a while would be appropriate in many if not all cases - but requires taking action, presuming including some sort of message to indicate that they aren't actively working on things now.

Note that subbing on Patreon is agreeing to send money to a person, not for a project. Many devs set up rewards for various support levelsb however, i dont necessarily believe Patreon requires them to make good on the rewards promised. I didn't see language like I saw when I participated on Kickstarter recently; they explicitly say that the various rewards promised for support are not Kickstarter's responsibility and aren't enforced by Kickstarter in any way. My assumption has always been that Patreon is operating on the same principles; you decide to give Joe Shmoe money, and he has no actual obligation to do squat about it.

Again - once the dev makes it a business relationship by setting up on Patreon, it is rude and unethical (in my opinion) to keep taking money if whatever you promised isn't being delivered. There's only one thing supporters can do about, and that's choosing to stop their support.

Exactly. Once you ask for money, even on a voluntary basis... you, as the dev, go from mere hobbyist to amateur/budding entrepreneur with their supporters being effectively their investors.

Now, even if they aren't legally beholden to fulfill their end of the bargain a la a contract to finish a project.. it still looks really bad from just a reputational standpoint that will, to anyone supporting the project, just come off as spitting in their face and to anyone supporting them monetarily? A scam or a total waste of time. No matter what you do short of a sincere apology and and effort to make it up to anyone you let down within the means at your disposal... excuses are just that, excuses... And I'm not defending that.

 

[Akabakka]

To clarify - given that this became a business relationship once they set up a Patreon account, none of that excuses their behavior.

However, I'm not sure how Patreon payments are handled. I can't say for sure that all devs in this sort of situation take in the money actively. If it auto transfers to an account, that requires no action to receive the money, but requires action to stop receiving it (and what I've laid out implies a paralysis that could prevent action). I believe that on itch.io, you have to log in and withdraw the money your project has earned; a dev truly paralyzed into inaction presumably wouldn't withdraw that money (although itch payments are a one-time thing, not an on-going financial relationship).

Turning off Patreon payments for a while would be appropriate in many if not all cases - but requires taking action, presuming including some sort of message to indicate that they aren't actively working on things now.

Note that subbing on Patreon is agreeing to send money to a person, not for a project. Many devs set up rewards for various support levelsb however, i dont necessarily believe Patreon requires them to make good on the rewards promised. I didn't see language like I saw when I participated on Kickstarter recently; they explicitly say that the various rewards promised for support are not Kickstarter's responsibility and aren't enforced by Kickstarter in any way. My assumption has always been that Patreon is operating on the same principles; you decide to give Joe Shmoe money, and he has no actual obligation to do squat about it.

Again - once the dev makes it a business relationship by setting up on Patreon, it is rude and unethical (in my opinion) to keep taking money if whatever you promised isn't being delivered. There's only one thing supporters can do about, and that's choosing to stop their support.

I'm not disagreeing with a lot of your points , nor disputing how patronage works . My points were entirely on a moral viewpoint . While legal , it is scummy in my opinion to be gone for months without a word , then to be back and just say "oops i was depressed" (and i know i'm being reductive here) . It's not even specific to this game , but it's a behavior that is wayyyy too common, for already too many AVN crowdfunded titles , and just never ok . Sadly it's up to people to not let it run rampant and be commonplace

 

[Meloned]

please comeback

 

[gpsywolf]

Sad, this is one of my favorite games since forever. Was wondering what happened to it so i came in here to check on it and now IM depressed. I guess its whatever, I mean nothing i can do about it. Hope the dev gets "better" soon and picks up the project again, but time will tell.

 

[Azero]

from discord.

 

[RDFozz]

from discord.

So, January 13, 2019 is "almost a year ago" on April 12, 2024?

I begin to understand why the updates take so long to produce.

 

[Badjourasmix]

View attachment 3543550

from discord.

Don't know what drugs he is on, but it must be some good shit.

 

[Aninass]

Has this really, been abandoned? The dev seems active. I really love this, one of my earliest AVNs. I hope he decides not to abandon it.