RPGM Defenestration [v0.5j bug fix] [Fresh Mulan]

[atahaa]

i believe that he realy killed the vibe of the game but i cant hate on him cuz seeing all of the hate comments doesnt give a motivation at all its starts to get kinda of bullying :/

I was starting to feel sorry for him too, but then I remembered he makes almost 2k/month. "bullying" is a harsh word, if you criticize someone for the quality or lack of a product how can that be considered bullying? Feedback is valuable, I'd hate to see this thread turn to a "wow you're doing so great" echo chamber.

Also his comments of the type "no one attempts to do anything this complex" don't really help and sound almost borderline delusional. I'm not sure if sprinkling the dialogue tree with conditional statements or layering clothes can be considered groundbreaking.

 

[jonL]

i believe that he realy killed the vibe of the game but i cant hate on him cuz seeing all of the hate comments doesnt give a motivation at all its starts to get kinda of bullying :/

What kind of utopian world do you live in to call criticising developer for absence of development bulling?

 

[VonDoom]

A world in which tone matters, I would presume.

 

[jonL]

My tone degraded over time. First two months I was waiting patiently.

 

[Alexia@69]

So, from this:
"How much time will it take? - I think just a couple of days, but I’m always wrong. "
to:
"a day, or a week or even two". And there are more than two weeks between those statements. Good thing they had enough time to chat with us here.

 

[jejesele]

So, from this:
"How much time will it take? - I think just a couple of days, but I’m always wrong. "
to:
"a day, or a week or even two". And there are more than two weeks between those statements. Good thing they had enough time to chat with us here.

When he dont talks to ppl, you get mad when he talks to ppl you also get mad. WTF xD

Just let him do his game and wait ffs

 

[Alexia@69]

When he dont talks to ppl, you get mad when he talks to ppl you also get mad. WTF xD

Just let him do his game and wait ffs

I personally couldn't care less if he talked to us. All I ever complained about is their work schedule that seems to be all over the place and their lack of updates after months of milking their supporters (of which I was one, apparently that seems to matter if you want your arguments to carry weight).

Do you really not see how absurd it is that they are unable to figure out if their remaining work will take them either two days or TWO WEEKS to finish? And that this has been going on for MONTHS?

 

[VonDoom]

Not particularly. Patreon and patronage as a concept works off of the idea of benevolence and support towards creators. I like the idea of the game and the builds I played, so I throw out two dollars a month because I'd like to see more of that sort of content. There is no obligation from either side and simply because a lot of people do the same does not mean any singular supporter suddenly gains a right to make demands -- sadly, Patreon itself muddles this somewhat with their tiers in order to make itself more attractive and does introduce some obligations there. So perhaps this trend of entitlement towards content and releases stems from that structure.

Still, if it's money you're going to miss, it shouldn't be spent on Patreon. Repeating the same claims and arguments makes them weaker instead of stronger and is far more likely to cause a negative reaction. Make one negative review if you feel the need to, then leave or wait until the situation has changed sufficiently to warrant a different response. Anything else is just harping.

 

[jonL]

Not particularly. Patreon and patronage as a concept works off of the idea of benevolence and support towards creators. I like the idea of the game and the builds I played, so I throw out two dollars a month because I'd like to see more of that sort of content. There is no obligation from either side and simply because a lot of people do the same does not mean any singular supporter suddenly gains a right to make demands -- sadly, Patreon itself muddles this somewhat with their tiers in order to make itself more attractive and does introduce some obligations there. So perhaps this trend of entitlement towards content and releases stems from that structure.

Still, if it's money you're going to miss, it shouldn't be spent on Patreon. Repeating the same claims and arguments makes them weaker instead of stronger and is far more likely to cause a negative reaction. Make one negative review if you feel the need to, then leave or wait until the situation has changed sufficiently to warrant a different response. Anything else is just harping.

We pirates are going to miss the game. Turning to longer and longer update time and making empty promises right before payment day is scam tactics. Right now f95 is the only advertisment platform for nsfw games so making game less desirable over here will lead to payment drop, influencing autor to do his work, not promising to do it.

 

[VonDoom]

How is that at all a response to what I wrote?

 

[lostraven]

As someone whose long had experience with scam developers, *cough* Gumdrops et al and having spoke to Mulan myself to help in some small capacity with the next update,

Honestly,

He's not a scammer.

What he is, is a dev that has bitten off way, way more than he could handle.

And yes, that is a criticism in itself, but it's one that stems from naivity in a project, and pretty much every dev at some point falls prey to it. (Unfortunately for Mulan, he has fell deeply into, and got burned).

It's certainly been a harsh lesson for him, and I think it's clearly taken a toll on his 'nerves' hence the reactions you're seeing.

But, moving forward he's promised not to commit to such work-loads and much smaller updates, it would pointless to release now prematurely with the update finally looming.

The most important thing is that a lesson was learned on being overly ambitious with limited means.

...

Speaking personally,
Development is not always smooth running, when I first came onto work on Taffy Tales, it was in an abysmal state, and the Patreon count reflected that.

It's very easy as a Dev to get creep scope, and I myself have fucked up with it.

I think personally, Mulan deserves a second chance after this update. If the same mistakes keep occurring, well, I won't say anything when you bring out the torches then, but till then...

 

[Torek]

I agree with lostraven, he might have disapointed us sometimes with the expetation on release on an exact date, but i was his patreon and he did show the progress made and had an active rol with the comunity (even though some times he did disapear it was with reason in my opinion).
A scammer wouldnt take the time to deffend himself or even pay attention to this critics on the delays (ive seen sex arcade been off the radar for months and still with patreons, i think its a good example).
He does need to work on his schedules/hire more people/lower expectations, because with all thats at hand and all its coming all of us that already played the game so far have a high expectation for a hard work for 2 people. Any of you who had programmed know how it is, you may think you have the problem, but once you get to open the cover you see all the engine is above a cable you need to remove and that implies to re do the engine... its never as it seems at first. And that is the problem here, not the creativity to continue the story or the drawings or whatever, its that the programming of the new system seems to be more complex than expected (as always), but if done right (i wish he is doing it right), its a one time job.

 

[noctred]

I genuinely only get positive comments and messages from my english-speaking patrons, the only negative feedback I receive comes from those who have no access to me, because they do not have any clue what is going on.

This is genuinely untrue.

When I was still a patron prior to the release of 4.6, I personally offered negative (yet constructive) feedback regarding the very alarming pattern of absenteeism and repeated delays leading up to the 4.6 release. This was back when 4.6 was announced for the end of September '19, then pushed back multiple times throughout October, and finally released in early November. If I recall correctly, the release was pushed back a total of 5 times - each time the Patreon post claimed that "this week" would be the week of release. Didn't happen. The final Patreon update (for 10/31) claimed that you would "not delay the game again". It got delayed again.

After that post, you straight up vanished from your own Discord for a week with no word of any kind to your supporters about what was going on. Questions posted to your Patreon went unanswered as well - I know because I posted one shortly after you disappeared, politely asking for an update. When you finally came back, you made a Patreon post stating that you were scared of checking both your Discord and your Patreon in fear of negative comments which people might have posted, and that is why you had gone off the grid. That was kinda nutty... willfully ignoring your supporters because you were afraid of reading their negative feedback? Yikes.

At the time, there was quite a lot of negative feedback and discontent in your supporter-only Discord channels about your absence and the nature of the delays, so how you can say that you don't get any negative feedback from your english-speaking patrons is beyond me... there was plenty of it towards the end of 2019. Past that, I don't know - I was no longer a patron.

--

Just to be clear - I never had a problem with delays or long release cycles. My problem was always with the poor communication between yourself and the people giving you money. Maybe you've gotten better about it since then but the negative feedback was 100% there back then.

 

[Mwanted]

I'm gonna say this: actions speak louder than words.
What we all should do to judge if he's honest or he's just playing the victim card is see the actual content of the next release whenever he's going to release it: count how many months of 2K dollars pledges costed and see if it was worth it.

 

[jonL]

4.5 months since last update. Before and during rework autor was promising that he will be able to double update speed. I seriously doubt that he trippled his content in 5 months.

 

[thenonemans]

He's not a scammer.

What he is, is a dev that has bitten off way, way more than he could handle.

how is 5 months for a gym update with a couple of scenes biting off more then he can handle?
Don't for he's been claiming to be a week away from release since end of 2019 as well

 

[lostraven]

how is 5 months for a gym update with a couple of scenes biting off more then he can handle?
Don't for he's been claiming to be a week away from release since end of 2019 as well

Because its more than just the 'gym' stuff as I understand it. Many of the assets designed are there to be reused for later updates plus the variations in MC appearance plus in game choices are going to alter scenes. There's a lot of variations (And yes, I think their inexperience has played a role in this debacle hugely),

Having peeked behind the curtain the scale is very ambitious, especially given they are still a 2 man crew.

If he fails to get back on his feet and sort shit after this update it's on him, but I think a second shot is something people should be open to.

It's hardly Darth Smut levels of fucked up.

 

[impossibleis7]

how is 5 months for a gym update with a couple of scenes biting off more then he can handle?
Don't for he's been claiming to be a week away from release since end of 2019 as well

I'll try my best to and try to explain why I think he has his work cut for him.

For example think we have a couple of poses:
pose1, pose2, pose3

and then a couple of clothes:
clothe1, clothe2, clothe3

Add a couple of body modifications (tattoos, etc) into that mix:
modification1, modification2, modification3

So for these 3 poses, 3 clothes, 3 body modifications he has to draw 27 images.

pose1 & clothe1 & modification1
pose1 & clothe1 & modification2
pose1 & clothe1 & modification3

pose1 & clothe2 & modification1
pose1 & clothe2 & modification2
pose1 & clothe2 & modification3

pose1 & clothe3 & modification1
pose1 & clothe3 & modification2
pose1 & clothe3 & modification3

pose2...
pose3...

Depending on the layering system he might not have to draw all of those, some modifications might not be needed or some changes might be even minor. However at the same time, some body modifications could impact other body modifications, like breast size on tatoos etc, and that adds another permutation level.

Each delay makes me dissapointed as well, especially because how he used to handle things. But we get a progress report each week, these days. And last week we got one on Saturday (didnt have to wait till the last second), I really hope he keeps this up. Its baby steps, but steps nonetheless.

 

[jonL]

Thats why idea of many breast and butt sizes are counterproductive. I think that 4 sizes is top. Normal, enlarged, as big as possible, grotesque. Leaving normal for first part of the game, enlarged for thouse who are not into bodymod, as big as possible only in endgame for thouse who are into bodymod and grotesque only for thouse who are into farm content. It will let autor have at least 2/3 of the game with one size.

 

[impossibleis7]

Thats why idea of many breast and butt sizes are counterproductive. I think that 4 sizes is top. Normal, enlarged, as big as possible, grotesque. Leaving normal for first part of the game, enlarged for thouse who are not into bodymod, as big as possible only in endgame for thouse who are into bodymod and grotesque only for thouse who are into farm content. It will let autor have at least 2/3 of the game with one size.

Its his game, he gets to decide all about it (we cant complain about that). jonL you have to realize, just like you, there are people on the other spectrum of things. I think Fresh is trying to keep everyone happy. Who knows, depending on the workload he might choose to cut down on the customization (I hope not). Then you have hip sizes and tattos too.

AFAIK these images are drawn not 3d modelled. So none of his decisions are making it any easier for him. Its not like he can change some values or rotate some limbs to make things happen. Probably the reason that we dont see that many developers going this approach.

Edit: It not an excuse. But its probably the main reason behind the delays.