RPGM Demon Deals [v0.07c] [Breadman Games]
- Thread starter BreadManGames
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Seems there is a bug of some kind at the start of the game. Lost my save and decided to start over everything worked fine up until the point where I am to start doing the chores, workout and tv watching as part of the main quest. Once I try to leave the house or enter it and end up on the porch the MC get's stuck and all the buttons are disabled though I am able to right click to change the direction the MC is facing. It's a clean install + save updated to 5.1. Gonna give a try and just restart from scratch since I've tried to restart the game and progress the story by staying in house. It first appeared before making the angel deal and then was still around after making the angel deal. Included save when it first appeared and then a save after the angel deal, file 1 first appear file 2 after angel deal.
Edit: Advanced the day even more and then the mom glitched into the wall when the MC woke up and then it somehow just worked again when I went outside and going back in again made the mom appear in house again so everything seems fine for the moment. Included when it worked again save as well, file 3 when it worked again.
Edit+: Nwm the bug is back once I have breakfast with the mom again... gonna see if I can circumvent it somehow if not I'll just restart again and see if that works.
Edit: Advanced the day even more and then the mom glitched into the wall when the MC woke up and then it somehow just worked again when I went outside and going back in again made the mom appear in house again so everything seems fine for the moment. Included when it worked again save as well, file 3 when it worked again.
Edit+: Nwm the bug is back once I have breakfast with the mom again... gonna see if I can circumvent it somehow if not I'll just restart again and see if that works.
there's a known bug where you need to nap till noon, (day 3 or 4), step outside and you'll get the scene with your neighbors significant other. The the game seems to move forward without any issues (in my playthrough anyway).
There was one day with mom in the wall, but leaving the house and re-entering fixed that.
Hmm game has very few content. Dead ends everywhere, not even the main progression with the mom gets far (ends with titjob). Animations are really great and I can tell the game itself is made with passion, however, the in game world clearly shows the dev(s) are a bit unorganized and have not planned out the development well.
It would've been better to build one part of the city first but finish it so that the player has a cohesive experience and then just add new party of the town along with new storypaths in updates.
The way it is now you've got way too many places to visit that don't offer much and many Character-Questlines that end right after 1% because only the first quest is done (cassie).
It would've been better to build one part of the city first but finish it so that the player has a cohesive experience and then just add new party of the town along with new storypaths in updates.
The way it is now you've got way too many places to visit that don't offer much and many Character-Questlines that end right after 1% because only the first quest is done (cassie).
Gonna be great to see how mc kids gonna be look like with each girl and how many he gonna have)
I beg to differ. It's clear the dev has planned out everything since the whole map is already in place. If the dev had focussed on one part first, it would mean we'd be stuck there and not be able to progress with anything. Sabrina's quest, for instance, send us all over town, not to mention the main quest.
Well, yes... Because that's how in-game worlds work (not just here). Unlike the real world, progress is gated. If you need to buy a bottle of wine for a quest, you won't find a bottle of wine anywhere prior to that quest. Because that's how RPG's work.
Yes, because that's the introduction of that character. Obviously several "minor" characters will be tied in with other story lines, so you need to progress with other storylines to advance with those characters. It makes the world feel more alive because it's all intertwined.
- Jan 21, 2022
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I wrote "not planned out well", not "not planned out", speaking about differentiation. And no, it would not mean you're stuck. You'd just start with 2-3 parts of the town instead of 10 and you could put all neccessary shops and places into that. It doesn't really matter if the tech shop and the gym and the hospital are all in the east or spread across all sky directions. Or you just go with the current city, but still do finish introduced storylines first (or progress them far) instead of adding 6 new characters that you only do one quest for.
And plenty of other ways to assure the development is thight and focussed. It's important to keep the player in mind when developing an early access game that people should fund and play in its given state.
Again, if I need to walk across the whole town to the gym just to do one intro quest with Cassie only to figure out there isn't more yet, and then repeat that for several characters all over place, it gets pretty tidious. Players would enjoy more to start questlines they know that offer at least something. Even if they're not finished. Having too many loose ends during development isn't a good sign of structuring / well thought out plans.
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But then you'd have the same situation, just that the districts are bigger. Right now, every district is about four screens. With your suggestion, yes, we'd have less districts, but districts that would be about twelve screens. With the quick travel, it's easier to get to a location since the district is smaller, but with a bigger district, it would take longer and thus be counter productive.
That's the result of introducing new characters. No doubt it'll set up a "loose end" that will be continued in a later update. The bane of too many games is that two or three characters are introduced, the dev puts up a poll to ask who to focus on, and then introduces another character to follow up with another poll. Obviously the newly introduced character won't be picked and the "old" characters will end up with more content than the new ones. Breadman, however, introduces a few characters, so it doesn't put "old" characters against "new" characters in polls, and he has already said he'll rotate the characer pool in polls, so there won't be any "favouritism" and everyone will have the same content.
You would just re-organize the placing of buildings and swap some important ones for the filler ones, so the map size would stay the same. Or you simply just plan (right from the beginning) how you could progressively start with the story over 3-4 map parts and then just focus on that before you move on to add 100 more houses and dead-end-characters that have no value for the players at their given state.
That's another story. My comment was about introducing 2-3 characters and give them decent progression instead of introducing 10+ new characters that you barely can interact with.
If you have, let's say, 50 hours of pure development until the next update, which will spit out 25 quests (just as example) then it's smarter to have 3 new characters with ~8 quests each rather than 10 new characters with 2,5 quests each.
So it would be smarter to approach new characters linear instead of in parallel.
PixelKatto
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- Oct 25, 2022
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I think Babs is a girl we underestimated a bit, it will be a lot of fun at some point to see what this nerdy girl will bring. Tuesday Sam!
Given how big some buildings are by necesity (the hospital, the school and the mall for instance), mapsize would increase if you put more locations there. Also, it wouldn't make sense since it's modelled after a US city pattern. While in Europe, "districts" aren't really a thing, they are in the US. Residential houses next to shops aren't common (even though it's, well, more convenient). Adding new locations in new area's would make no sense and just complicate things in the long run. Need a shop? Don't bother looking at the shop area, because there's no shop area, but go and find it in one of the other locations.
The thing is, the whole point is that it's supposed to be parallel instead of linear. Yes, some characters will be locked away by other storylines, but in the completed game, you're supposed to be able to choose which "main" girl you're going after, rather than finish them in a linear fashion. Also, this brings up the "problem" with polls again. Previous introduced characters will always win in the polls, rather than new characters. By introducing all the characters as soon as possible, you take away that bias.
You're thinking way too complicated. Maps like the Hospital are standalone maps, so you don't need to merge them anywhere and they don't affect the size of any other maps.
You do imagine this like the town would already exist and the devs have to deal with it (Like: Oh shit, we need a tech shop, but we don't have a shopping district so we need to put it between houses which is unrealistic for the USA). They're the creators, they can plan it right away.
So let's imagine the first 1/4 of the game requires the school, the hospital, the grocery store, comic book store, tech shop, the gym and some casual houses where people live.
So school and hospital are unique maps just like now. All the stores can be in one shopping mall or district, or you can split half of them in one and half of them in another map (district / mall). Then we have the neighbourhood with the gym (or you can put it into one of the other two maps with the shops).
So you see, no problem getting all these elements into 3-4 map parts. And then you just progress the story first in these 4 map parts, and focus on the characters given there. No need to have another 5 districts with another 10 characters out there that you can't interact with yet, that have nothing more than 1 quest to offer.
As the first 1/4 of the game progresses, the 4 parts of maps are being filled with life and the characters all have something to offer in terms of quests, then the game can naturally expand and unfold into new areas, introduce new characters and make previous progressions more complex.
This would be a way more ideal approach that is more streamlined and structured and offers the people more easy-to-figure and further progressed content rather than running around in a huge empty world looking for little snippes of dialouges or intro-quests that lead to nowhere yet.
There's no problem, you make a poll, give people 5 characters to favour and then, when creating let's say the first additional map with new buildings, start with the first 2 characters the community wants to see the most. Then you slowly add the picks 3-5, and this way the new map and its characters come to life. But all the time with content that really matters and offers more than just a simple intro quest.
Of course, you'd only offer 5 characters that are part of the next additional map that they come with so it all makes sense in the context of the game and the current progression. This is a modular approach and would fit best for early access games that are supposed to be enjoyed and funded by a community during development. Polls are also something that devs have control over, it's not that they just need to deal with whatever the community picks and then flip their whole game over for it.
Like I said this just needs to be well thought through from the beginning, but it's easily possible.
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I'm not talking about the interior maps, but the buildings in the world. You can't sell a hospital having a large map if the exterior building is just a small building. It's not the Tardis. You can't have a one story building have several floors with additional wings.
They did plan it right away, that's what you're complaining about.
But again, it's not supposed to progress linear. For instance, right now we have the Sabrina questline, but in the completed game, we could decide to do one of the teachers first before we even touch Sabrina (pun intended). That would mean we'd go to the "newer" area's before we go to the "old" ones. But as it is right now, there's no old or new area's, so it all flows logically once the time's there for more characters.
And that would limit the progress to the available area's. By unlocking the world right at the start, you can place anything anywhere. If you lock things away, you're restricted to what's available. With your method, it's more showcasing what the new area has to offer, rather than focussing on the character's storyline.
I mean, I get what you're saying, there's nothing more annoying than have a character that just has one line, but given that we're merely at the start, I think we can be a bit lenient here. It's clear Breadman has things planned out, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt.
The animation art of 0.5 was of worse quality than 0.4. The scenes were hotter but the quality of the art itself downgraded.
Nobody said the exterior should be a small building. And of course you can, you'll just unlock the new floors and additional wings gradually when there's content for it avaiable. This is especially easy since the game anyways works with the classical approach of requiring the player to have absolved certain parts of the game to access specific areas.
Again, I never said they didn't plan anything. I said they did not plan it well. They planned the whole game and didn't think about their target audience and what would've been the best approach, which is why they ended up with a huge empty world with snippets of content spread across everywhere which is very tidious to find and little rewarding in the same time, while it's disappointing that main progressions can't be unlocked further. Stuck with the main mom-content at home because they rather created 12 other quests that offer nothing because they don't progress yet neither.
That's something you can implement later once it's all done. So for now, we'd have the full questline from Sabrina, then they add another teacher, then another teacher, then another teacher. And then when the game is out and done, they can make it avaiable that you pick by yourself in what order you want to progress them simply by spending more time with their quests.
This would require to have a good roadmap right from the start with all their characters and relationships, so that you can plan well out to also create complex and interwoven content, just in your first 3-4 areas of the game already.
Quite the opposite - for instance, the gym could have a fully fledged questline with Cassie now. But it hasn't, it has been sacrificed to add other 12 NPCs to the empty world that also don't have anything to offer because all of them only got intro quests. That's why it's better to focus more rather than have 100 places in the same time under construction without much of value.
You're saying yes to high quality content and no to a lot of under-construction little rewarding content. That's the desired approach when creating an early access game that is supposed to be enjoyed during development.
No, why would that? Like I said, for instance we could have the whole gym questline with Cassie now. But the time was spent adding more and more under-construction content instead.
IMO many developers don't understand that when they go for crowdfunding/patreon/early access, the would benefit so much from that modular approach instead of trying to be a jack of all trades and do everything at once. Breadman is no exception here, unfortunately.
It's important to set priorities, there are really better ways to plan such a huge open world out if you go for early access.
And if you follow one questline, you'll stil lend end up a huge empty world with snippets of content spread across everywhere. Because that's how questlines work.
And now we have a woven and interwoven content, in all the area's of the game. If we did it your way, we'd have entire sections of the town that are just untouched while we do our stuff. And what if several characters need something similar? Are you going to put in three locations that sell wine, or going to revisit an older location (which makes more sense)?
That's assuming Cassie's questline involves only the gym. Sabrina's questline had (going by memory) the school, several shops, the MC's old home, all in different area's. Cassie's questline, so far, also had several locations as well, each in a different area.
On the contrary, Summertime Saga (amonst others) started out with a world that got stuff added later on, causing the map to change. If you use Ren'py it's easy to change the world map, but in RPG maker it's a lot harder. You need to have everything set out at the start so you can fit it all together.