Ren'Py Desert Stalker [v0.19.4] [Zetan]

[varage]

Yeah, but none of those are failures, none of those events happen without the input of the main character, none of those events happen because the character is weak and gets beaten. Like I asked, if it was the Male MC, not the secondary female MC would you consider it a positive outcome for him to be raped for the story? I doubt it, it is a failure in the story for that to happen.

If you really can't see the difference between the MC defeating an enemy in battle, Asha, and sharing someone with a good friend, Igor, and a main character being beaten and raped then idk what to say.

Yes thats my point i never once said this should happen me know better then writer of game. me hit rock with head. I have been advertiseing choice sense my first comment speaking of the queen's make out session. Though I have to say If the designer of this game kills off Shani in the zone. I would not consider this game a failure and I would continue playing.

I'd be upset yes but the game could stand without her.
But i'll concede yes if they anal raped the male protagonist and killed him off then yes the game would be over because i prolly wouldn't stick around to play the female the rest of the game but female protagonist aren't my cup of tea. Doesn't mean there no one's cup of tea.

 

[Canto Forte]

That whole process of being involved with the queen, getting to be a queen right hand babe,
that alone is getting her training updated form 20% to life in no time!

I kind of hope they add more training content with Shani at some point. Right now, I get the vibe of Rey from Star Wars where it feels like she goes 0 - 100 in 60 seconds in terms of being a bad ass Jedi.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

I can't think of a scenario where the MC would be raped but i suppose it could lead to a game over as the MC would kill that guy or be killed by that guy.

This is my point; Shani would be just like him from everything we've seen. You're the one who sees her as someone who wouldn't be willing to live up to the same standard you just recognized her father has. It would be one thing for her to choose to have sex with someone else willingly that she loved, but she loves her father and maybe is developing feelings for the queen. Anything else wouldn't make sense. Choice at the cost of story isn't choice, it just pandering and a waste of time and effort that could be spent making scenes that advance the story.

 

[varage]

This is my point; Shani would be just like him from everything we've seen. You're the one who sees her as someone who wouldn't be willing to live up to the same standard you just recognized her father has. It would be one thing for her to choose to have sex with someone else willingly that she loved, but she loves her father and maybe is developing feelings for the queen. Anything else wouldn't make sense. Choice at the cost of story isn't choice, it just pandering and a waste of time and effort that could be spent making scenes that advance the story.

Yes, that's because she's not of the same standard. BECAUSE she's a woman. Fighting men. They aren't the same and that is why her teacher who you can't remember the name of pointed that out to her right before she left for the zone. When a man loses in combat they are killed not fucked when a woman loses combat they are fucked and or killed. Or hell judging from the content of the game perhaps killed and then fucked. That was what that entire conversation was alluding to.
You're thinking to much like Shani I'm gunna be just like daddy. Sad truth is She can never be like daddy because of what's between her legs. This is a blessing and a curse because if daddy loses a fight he's dead if shani does she has options. BUT AGAIN i never implied I wanted this to be out of the players hands. I just want them to be options. And sure if he can think of an option that gets MC butt raped and survives then more power to him let him add it in someone might enjoy it. I'll personally be avoiding it though.

 

[Canto Forte]

What teacher? She gets advanced fighting and weapons and tactics expertise while
on mission with MC and with the queen.
Are we gonna start scouring her dairy and revive old sticks fighting sessions she got
at the time she could not lift a machete?
Every time MC wins it is up to the players what they do.
MC lets the women he fkks live, so no, your account is not accurate in the slightest.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

Yes, thats because she's not of the same standard. BECAUSE she's a woman. Fighting men. They aren't the same and that is why her teacher who you can't remember the name of pointed that out to her right before she left the zone. When a man loses in combat they are killed not fucked when a woman loses combat they are fucked and or killed. Or hell judging from the content of the game purhaps killed and then fucked. That was what that entire conversation was alluding to.

You just made my point for me again and you don't even see it. Her losing a fight isn't the player making a choice. It's a failure state for the game. A few posts up you argued that Shani being beaten and taken wasn't a failure but a choice, now you are agreeing with me in order to make an entirely different point. I honestly am not sure what you're trying to say you want? Do you want the choice to lose? I mean, yea we could have that, but it'd be a waste of time to render a bunch of scenes just for the player to roll back and pick the right choice, it's a false choice.

 

[varage]

You just made my point for me again and you don't even see it. Her losing a fight isn't the player making a choice. It's a failure state for the game. A few posts up you argued that Shani being beaten and taken wasn't a failure but a choice, now you are agreeing with me in order to make an entirely different point. I honestly am not sure what you're trying to say you want? Do you want the choice to lose? I mean, yea we could have that, but it'd be a waste of time to render a bunch of scenes just for the player to roll back and pick the right choice, it's a false choice.

Yes it is a choice. Just say go all out say dodge left when you are supposed to dodge right. If you dodge left you lose fight if you dodge right you win fight.... HOW THE FUCK HAVE YOU PLAYED MORE THEN ONE VN and not had the option to lose a fight?

 

[JoeTheMC84]

I kind of hope they add more training content with Shani at some point. Right now, I get the vibe of Rey from Star Wars where it feels like she goes 0 - 100 in 60 seconds in terms of being a bad ass Jedi.

I just kind of assume that she was trained off screen for all those years the Mc wasn't banging her so he could train her. But it would be cool to get more content of her and the MC doing training and stuff.

 

[Canto Forte]

They do missions together and have heart to hearts after the missions.
What more training do y”all need?
Ray had first hand combat to survive directly with snook.
Our heroine was the right hand of queen when she enacted her brand of justice.
Those kind of experiences in a do or die scenario will advance your training 1000 fold.

 

[GetOutOfMyLab]

I just kind of assume that she was trained off screen for all those years the Mc wasn't banging her so he could train her. But it would be cool to get more content of her and the MC doing training and stuff.

yeah, I just think it would be cool to see some progression. Not too much, but just enough to show how much she's grown.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

Yes it is a choice. Just say go all out say dodge left when you are supposed to dodge right. If you dodge left you lose fight if you dodge right you win fight.... HOW THE FUCK HAVE YOU PLAYED MORE THEN ONE VN and not had the option to lose a fight?

Yeah, those are false choices that usually only last a single render or two and are acknowledged as a failure state, not choices but failures. I'm not trying to argue anything anymore, because I'm actually confused about what you are saying want? Just a score of little two render scenes that say, "Oh you picked wrong and lost, roll back and try again?" Cause those are a waste of time and effort and I have seen them in a bunch of VNs and it's stupid content.

 

[varage]

You just made my point for me again and you don't even see it. Her losing a fight isn't the player making a choice. It's a failure state for the game. A few posts up you argued that Shani being beaten and taken wasn't a failure but a choice, now you are agreeing with me in order to make an entirely different point. I honestly am not sure what you're trying to say you want? Do you want the choice to lose? I mean, yea we could have that, but it'd be a waste of time to render a bunch of scenes just for the player to roll back and pick the right choice, it's a false choice.

OKAY LAMENSE TERMS there is nothing in the world that can make this game a failure you could stick a pipe bomb up mc's ass have his rock hard erection fly through shani's and ains eye killing them. And if the CREATOR of the game wanted it to be so. End credit scene. It's his work im not qualified to say it's a failure or not.

Second point without alluding to anything you say this is my stance so you can't confuse yourself or take what I say the wrong way. Shani losing a fight is not a failure state of the game because such a thing doesn't exist in the first place it's a failure on Shani's side alone you can accomplish this but dodging right or left or hesitating to finish off someone you should finish off. If you fail to win fight you could say, get a rape scene. You could also be saved by a Knight in shining armor be it male or female and choose for Shani to sleep with them through text-based prompt. Or you could choose her I'm really tired better call it a night.

So, if both those points are me agreeing with you then im glad i changed your mind and im happy we are on the same page. and no i want the story to continue after you make the FAILURE state as it's a Shani failure not a game over. She gets raped she gets upset she moves on she asks her daddy if she's worthless you decide if she's worthless. Spoiler she's not but my point is you can continue the game when she fails. BECAUSE she's a woman.

you can't continue the game when Male MC fails because he's a man. He gets no magic do overs because he has a penis when he fails he dies. When she fails much like asha she can be raped and spared.

 

[Canto Forte]

She is fighting undead who would eat her dead or alive right now.
MC is still doing survival tactics right off the bat in a 1 vs 3.
Did any a y”all see the training years of any zombie apokolips heroes?
Umbrella corp has clones fighting deadly zombies righ out of their tubes.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

OKAY LAMENSE TERMS there is nothing in the world that can make this game a failure you could stick a pipe bomb up mc's ass have his rock hard erection fly through shani's and ains eye killing them. And if the CREATOR of the game wanted it to be so. End credit scene. It's his work im not qualified to say it's a failure or not.

Second point without alluding to anything you say this is my stance so you can't confuse yourself or take what I say the wrong way. Shani losing a fight is not a failure state of the game because such a thing doesn't exist in the first place it's a failure on Shani's side alone you can accomplish this but dodging right or left or hesitating to finish off someone you should finish off. If you fail to win fight you could say, get a rape scene. You could also be saved by a Knight in shining armor be it male or female and choose for Shani to sleep with them through text-based prompt. Or you could choose her I'm really tired better call it a night.

So, if both those points are me agreeing with you then im glad i changed your mind and im happy we are on the same page.

I get it now; you don't know what a failure state in a game is. See in a game there are two states, success and failure (Not good and bad). You are equating failure with bad, that isn't the case. This is what sets a game apart from, say, a novel. Good or bad are subjective, its why a game that is pro-NTR for example would have a failure state where the MC didn't get cucked, you missed the core content roll back and see the success state where the MC gets cucked. Desert Stalker is a game, in that game the MC and now Shani as a desert stalker herself have two basic ends in front of them, survive (the Zone specifically for Shani) unharmed (success state) or don't (failure state).

This is basic game theory and I'm sorry I assumed you knew what I meant when I was using the term failure state. A failure state in a game is when the less desirable outcome is achieved for that game at that moment, for example, when Shepard dies in the middle of a mission in Mass Effect 1. You failed at the goal and now have to roll back. It's a failure state. But when Commander Shepard dies at the beginning of Mass Effect 2 it is a success state in that moment. In this GAME, the failure state (good or bad outcome is irrelevant) is for the protagonist to lose a fight. So, the maker of the game has a choice before them. Present a false choice for the Mc to lose a fight and give a short little scene that most people won't see. Or do what they have done since the prolog. Have the character win the fight and give us a real choice of what to do with the outcome such as killing an NPC or keeping them alive.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

She is fighting undead who would eat her dead or alive right now.
MC is still doing survival tactics right off the bat in a 1 vs 3.
Did any a y”all see the training years of any zombie apokolips heroes?
Umbrella corp has clones fighting deadly zombies righ out of their tubes.

I can only speak for myself but what I'm saying would be cool are more missions with both of them and heart to hearts like you brought up before. I don't think anyone is asking for like, Karate Kid style montages, lol

 

[varage]

I get it now; you don't know what a failure state in a game is. See in a game there are two states, success and failure (Not good and bad). You are equating failure with bad, that isn't the case. This is what sets a game apart from, say, a novel. Good or bad are subjective, its why a game that is pro-NTR for example would have a failure state where the MC didn't get cucked, you missed the core content roll back and see the success state where the MC gets cucked. Desert Stalker is a game, in that game the MC and now Shani as a desert stalker herself have two basic ends in front of them, survive (the Zone specifically for Shani) unharmed (success state) or don't (failure state).

This is basic game theory and I'm sorry I assumed you knew what I meant when I was using the term failure state. A failure state in a game is when the less desirable outcome is achieved for that game at that moment, for example, when Shepard dies in the middle of a mission in Mass Effect 1. You failed at the goal and now have to roll back. It's a failure state. But when Commander Shepard dies at the beginning of Mass Effect 2 it is a success state in that moment. In this GAME, the failure state (good or bad outcome is irrelevant) is for the protagonist to lose a fight. So, the maker of the game has a choice before them. Present a false choice for the Mc to lose a fight and give a short little scene that most people won't see. Or do what they have done since the prolog. Have the character win the fight and give us a real choice of what to do with the outcome such as killing an NPC or keeping them alive.

Yea i got that but i just want the choice there is my intent i also hate cope out games theres another game i can't think of the name of but it's ntr without any of the ntr because every Failure state as you say define it is when you get cucked so it's not really ntr it just goes to black screen and you have to choose the non cuck option. It makes the "game" a Kinetic novel and not a visual novel and makes the ntr seem laughable rather then upsetting.
All in all im not a fan of FAILURE STATES as you could progress story beyond you know MC died states. If you wanna add oh shit you died restarts once in a while go ahead but when your entire games based on those it urks me.

 

[JoeTheMC84]

Yea i got that but i just want the choice there is my intent i also hate cope out games theres another game i can't think of the name of but it's ntr without any of the ntr because every Failure state as you say define it is when you get cucked so it's not really ntr it just goes to black screen and you have to choose the non cuck option. It makes the "game" a Kinetic novel and not a visual novel and makes the ntr seem laughable rather then upsetting.
All in all im not a fan of FAILURE STATES as you could progress story beyond you know MC died states. If you wanna add oh shit you died restarts once in a while go ahead but when your entire games based on those it urks me.

So, we both agree that false choices are pointless and a waste of time it seems.

So, the choice you want, as I understand it, is that the Player have Shani at some point lose a fight on purpose basically (choosing to dodge right instead of left as your example put forward) and have her get raped and left behind (because she's a woman and it okay for that to happen to her while not her father). Then, because of that a whole new, multi-scene subplot is generated of her coming to grips with that moment AND her father being presented with how he deals with it which again, to avoid no false choices, has significant impact on the story. As a write myself, that sounds like a nightmare web to get into for content that doesn't fit the character of Shani (who has been set up as the kind of person who would kill herself before letting herself get raped in my opinion) and doesn't fit the narrative being laid out so far. Not to mention that most people wouldn't see it anyway.

Edit: If that is the choice you'd like to see, cool, this post was not meant to be a judgment or attack. I'm just trying to wrap up this interesting discussion cleanly with both of us knowing were the other stands and what the other is trying to say.

 

[varage]

So, we both agree that false choices are pointless and a waste of time it seems.

So, the choice you want, as I understand it, is that the Player have Shani at some point lose a fight on purpose basically (choosing to dodge right instead of left as your example put forward) and have her get raped and left behind (because she's a woman and it okay for that to happen to her while not her father). Then, because of that a whole new, multi-scene subplot is generated of her coming to grips with that moment AND her father being presented with how he deals with it which again, to avoid no false choices, has significant impact on the story. As a write myself, that sounds like a nightmare web to get into for content that doesn't fit the character of Shani (who has been set up as the kind of person who would kill herself before letting herself get raped in my opinion) and doesn't fit the narrative being laid out so far. Not to mention that most people wouldn't see it anyway.

Edit: If that is the choice you'd like to see, cool, this post was not meant to be a judgment or attack. I'm just trying to wrap up this interesting discussion cleanly with both of us knowing were the other stands and what the other is trying to say.

Well yes but the kill herself before getting raped doesn't sit well with me because. To actually want to kill yourself you have to have nothing to live for she does have something to live for her family and rape is just that you dont have a choice in the matter.
I also don't see Shani as someone who would stab herself in the throat to avoid getting raped because she strikes me as the never give up type. Also i don't really care to much about the rape option the one im more into would be the knight in shining armor. M/F version. You know one night stand in the Zone the zone that is ment as a comming of age and finding yourself.
What we know of Shani pales in comparison with what we should find out about Shani in the next few coming updates.
Suprisingly enough im not into rape the only reason i can stomache the Asha scene the way I do is because she likes it. If she didn't i'd avoid it like the pleague.
Her of course either being rescued by someone or rescuing someone depending on if you have Shani help or Shani self up.
Surprisingly i'd do opposite though Shani help being her rescuing someone and Shani self her being rescued.

 

[berny]

This is all too complicated for my taste.

Should Shani have the possibility to have sex during her mission (whatever type), I'm certainly gonna take it. I trust the devs to only include scenarios that make sense though, they haven't disappointed so far.

That said, I really don't think an actual rape will happen. This game is trying to tell a believable story while still being sexy. The consequences of something so horrible happening would totally ruin the rest of the game, because you can't just return to normal, at least when you aspire to maintain some credibility. And this game definitely does that compared to many other games.

I wouldn't mind some more dubious content (is that the right word?) with Shani though. After all, a big appeal of the game is that it's a lot more "hardcore" than your usual fake incest story. Optional of course.

 

[Kellermann]

Yea i got that but i just want the choice there is my intent i also hate cope out games theres another game i can't think of the name of but it's ntr without any of the ntr because every Failure state as you say define it is when you get cucked so it's not really ntr it just goes to black screen and you have to choose the non cuck option. It makes the "game" a Kinetic novel and not a visual novel and makes the ntr seem laughable rather then upsetting.
All in all im not a fan of FAILURE STATES as you could progress story beyond you know MC died states. If you wanna add oh shit you died restarts once in a while go ahead but when your entire games based on those it urks me.

Power Vacuum?
Yes, (aside from PV which is an excellent game) I'm also not a great fan of game overs/load save when the player chooses the "incorrect" path. I mean, that is fine with first person shooters (reviving after killed) and things like that, but it is annoying in visual novels where choices are primarily based upon relationships. I'm happy with the current format of Desert Stalker. The smart game design alleviates any concerns I might normally have with some aspects of the game (ex. making questionable content optional, avoidable protag switch, sand box elements without grind, etc.).