Ren'Py Desert Stalker [v0.19.4] [Zetan]

[GetOutOfMyLab]

I mean, one way to view it is that Zaton feels so secure in his ownership of the various women that he can offer their services to other men without there being any doubt that the women will remain his, and not grow attached to the other men. He's such a desirable man that Zahra could never be “won over” by another. By contrast, a man who locks away all his women does it because he knows he's not worth much, and that his women would be glad to leave him at any time. This man knows that if one of his women were to spend even a little time with another man, she would find that other man better and be “won over”.

That's the viewpoint of people who say “sharing is empowering”.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is that the women are so devoted to MC that he could tell them to do the most depraved acts and they will do so without question because he commanded it. And that's not just limited to sharing, but any other depravity out there.

 

[AnimeHentaiGamer]

why people sharing old scenes? igor one or you let igor share wife/daughter? i was hoping for new sharing scene in next update not talk about old.

also that 1 picture looks like daughter and the blonde slave. dont tell me you dont want girls share the slave too now.

 

[muschi26]

That's one way to look at it. Another way is that the women are so devoted to MC that he could tell them to do the most depraved acts and they will do so without question because he commanded it. And that's not just limited to sharing, but any other depravity out there.

Yeah, my explanation was more along the lines of “positive” empowerment, whereas what you're describing here I'd label “negative” empowerment instead.

In my example, I feel like the state of empowerment would be “purer” in a sense, because the man in question derives power from his own desirability, his own charisma, and the actions he has others do are in line with the values that make him desirable: in this case, sharing sexual favours in a gesture of traditional Zetan hospitality. Either the women do according as he says because they like it, or because they understand the “positive” values behind the gesture.

In your example, I feel like there's an underlying contradiction. A desirable man who derives this his desirability from “positive” traits likely wouldn't order his women to commit “depravities” just for the sake of it, and so it must be some other thing external to the man which forms the root of his “desirability”, and thus of the women's devotion to him: for instance, authority unrelated to the situation (e.g. the man in question is a king, or a billionaire), mind control, and so on. In this case, since the security and desirability of the man aren't naturally derived from his own virtue, but from an outside source, my impression is that this form of empowerment, while it is still empowerment, is less “pure” in a way.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Yeah, my explanation was more along the lines of “positive” empowerment, whereas what you're describing here I'd label “negative” empowerment instead.

In my example, I feel like the state of empowerment would be “purer” in a sense, because the man in question derives power from his own desirability, his own charisma, and the actions he has others do are in line with the values that make him desirable: in this case, sharing sexual favours in a gesture of traditional Zetan hospitality. Either the women do according as he says because they like it, or because they understand the “positive” values behind the gesture.

In your example, I feel like there's an underlying contradiction. A desirable man who derives this his desirability from “positive” traits likely wouldn't order his women to commit “depravities” just for the sake of it, and so it must be some other thing external to the man which forms the root of his “desirability”, and thus of the women's devotion to him: for instance, authority unrelated to the situation (e.g. the man in question is a king, or a billionaire), mind control, and so on. In this case, since the security and desirability of the man aren't naturally derived from his own virtue, but from an outside source, my impression is that this form of empowerment, while it is still empowerment, is less “pure” in a way.

Perhaps less pure, but I'd venture it's certainly more aligned with the theme in the game - it's a matter of ownership, not the positive self-confidence you mentioned (though I enjoyed your putting words to that - I could never vocalize why I felt such a "stfu betaboy" reaction in my head when i read comments complaining about sharing).

If you read through the whole "laws of society" thing in the handbook, which i'm ashamed to say I did, it explicity talks about this in the context of their society, and the ownership part.

Keep in mind positive traits have nothing to do with desirability. That doesn't mean negative traits are inherently desirable, it's just a different dimension, they're orthogonal (mostly). Think about a hot girl you know in the real world. Would it matter if she was a bitch? Would it matter if she was a saint? It might make her more likeable to hang out with, but it wouldn't really change how desireable (in a sexual context) you found her.

I see the in game MC as a mix of good and bad traits, he seems desired by women because he's powerful, good-looking and has a strong standing in their local society. He also doesnt shy away from being a controlling figure around women, which could be seen as a negative trait, yet not neccesarily undesirable.

 

[GetOutOfMyLab]

Yeah, my explanation was more along the lines of “positive” empowerment, whereas what you're describing here I'd label “negative” empowerment instead.

In my example, I feel like the state of empowerment would be “purer” in a sense, because the man in question derives power from his own desirability, his own charisma, and the actions he has others do are in line with the values that make him desirable: in this case, sharing sexual favours in a gesture of traditional Zetan hospitality. Either the women do according as he says because they like it, or because they understand the “positive” values behind the gesture.

In your example, I feel like there's an underlying contradiction. A desirable man who derives this his desirability from “positive” traits likely wouldn't order his women to commit “depravities” just for the sake of it, and so it must be some other thing external to the man which forms the root of his “desirability”, and thus of the women's devotion to him: for instance, authority unrelated to the situation (e.g. the man in question is a king, or a billionaire), mind control, and so on. In this case, since the security and desirability of the man aren't naturally derived from his own virtue, but from an outside source, my impression is that this form of empowerment, while it is still empowerment, is less “pure” in a way.

eh, not how I see it. It's like, MC could tell Zahra to get on her knees, open her mouth, and then use her like a toilet if he wanted. That can be seen as "positive" empowerment, I guess? Because she's doing it for the very reasons you say, such as his desirability, etc.

Anyway, my point was more about how everyone can view these things differently. The feeling of empowerment can come from different mindsets. A certain fetish can do different things for them depending on their mindset/viewpoint of it.

Regardless, I'm in favor of the story's lore on why the sharing can occur in this society. I feel it adds more depth and shows MC isn't offering his women's services simply because he gets off on them being with other men.

 

[muschi26]

Perhaps less pure, but I'd venture it's certainly more aligned with the theme in the game - it's a matter of ownership, not the positive self-confidence you mentioned (though I enjoye your putting words to that - I could never vocalize why I felt such a "stfu betaboy" reaction to those that whine hard about sharing).

If you read through the whole "laws of society" thing in the handbook, which i'm ashamed to say I did, it explicity talks about this in the context of their society, and the ownership part.

Perhaps, but I felt that, for a simple defence of “sharing as empowering” as an concept, an example of a “pure” case might make for a more convincing argument. Maybe that's just me.

Keep in mind positive traits have nothing to do with desirability. That doesn't mean negative traits are inherently desirable, it's just a different dimension, they're orthogonal (mostly). Think about a hot girl you know in the real world. Would it matter if she was a bitch? Would it matter if she was a saint? It might make her more likeable to hang out with, but it wouldn't really change how desireable (in a sexual context) you found her.

It does matter, because most negative traits take away from one's “desirability”, in whole or in part. Take for instance the game “fuck, marry, kill”: you might have a one-night stand with the hot girl who's a bitch, but it's the (maybe slightly less) sexually desirable girl who's also fun to be around who you're going to want to go back home to day after day. (Unless you're really old-fashioned and you believe in a purely functional marriage, i.e. don't care about sexual desirability in a wife.)

In this case, the wife could feel secure despite letting her husband go sleep with the “bitch”, because she knows that she's fundamentally more desirable on the whole.

I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself as clearly as I ought to LOL.

I see the in game MC as a mix of good and bad traits, he seems desired by women because he's powerful, good-looking and has a strong standing in their local society.

It's true that, in the real world (and complex fictional ones by extension), it's never so clear-cut as in theory.

 

[Fiufia]

I don't think it has anything to do with power over the women. you have the option so both MCs the one that share and the one that dont share have the same power over women.
But the MC power in the eyes of Igor (in this case) that is the power that changes/or can change. in my opinion the MC that share have more respect from Igor and the MC that dont share exerts more power over Igor

 

[Zolse]

eh, not how I see it. It's like, MC could tell Zahra to get on her knees, open her mouth, and then use her like a toilet if he wanted. That can be seen as "positive" empowerment, I guess? Because she's doing it for the very reasons you say, such as his desirability, etc.

Anyway, my point was more about how everyone can view these things differently. The feeling of empowerment can come from different mindsets. A certain fetish can do different things for them depending on their mindset/viewpoint of it.

Regardless, I'm in favor of the story's lore on why the sharing can occur in this society. I feel it adds more depth and shows MC isn't offering his women's services simply because he gets off on them being with other men.

Has there been any examples of sharing that's not the MC sharing his girls? There is a lot of talk about the in-universe lore of cuckold behavior, but I can't seem to see any evidence of this happening from the perspective of someone not MC.

I wouldn't count Igors niece personally, but perhaps some would disagree. There certainly isn't any examples of the "Hello, welcome. Have some tea, crumpets and my daughters mouth" that you see with MC.

There is even clearly noted how very bad it would be if your in-law discovers you fucked his daughter or how he reacts to you fondling his wife's shoulders. By some of the logic I've read here, your in-law should make a power move by offering you his wife or daughter.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Perhaps, but I felt that, for a simple defence of “sharing as empowering” as an concept, an example of a “pure” case might make for a more convincing argument. Maybe that's just me.



It does matter, because most negative traits take away from one's “desirability”, in whole or in part. Take for instance the game “fuck, marry, kill”: you might have a one-night stand with the hot girl who's a bitch, but it's the (maybe slightly less) sexually desirable girl who's also fun to be around who you're going to want to go back home to day after day. (Unless you're really old-fashioned and you believe in a purely functional marriage, i.e. don't care about sexual desirability in a wife.)

In this case, the wife could feel secure despite letting her husband go sleep with the “bitch”, because she knows that she's fundamentally more desirable on the whole.

I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself as clearly as I ought to LOL.



It's true that, in the real world (and complex fictional ones by extension), it's never so clear-cut as in theory.

My mistake, I assumed we were defining desirability purely as sexual attractiveness. You're right in that if we're talking about the whole package, many others things come into play. Though I'd still say it's a debatable issue whether on the whole a desirable partner emcompasses more negative or positive traits, I think it depends a lot on the woman -but that's a debate better suited for a relationships reddit or something instead of here, I don't wanna take away too much from dev's game.

Has there been any examples of sharing that's not the MC sharing his girls? There is a lot of talk about the in-universe lore of cuckold behavior, but I can't seem to see any evidence of this happening from the perspective of someone not MC.

I wouldn't count Igors niece personally, but perhaps some would disagree. There certainly isn't any examples of the "Hello, welcome. Have some tea, crumpets and my daughters mouth" that you see with MC.

There is even clearly noted how very bad it would be if your in-law discovers you fucked his daughter or how he reacts to you fondling his wife's shoulders. By some of the logic I've read here, your in-law should make a power move by offering you his wife or daughter.

It's not really accurate to even call that "cuckold" behavior, that makes it sound like he's sitting in a corner furious wanking instead of commanding his wife to entertain the guests - i mean lets get real, by that logic a pimp is a cuckold. Though I'd agree that the story would benefit overall and the world setting would benefit from other NPCs offering you their family members as a show of respect or whatever....

"your in-law should make a power move by offering you his wife or daughter" - I dont really understand what you mean with this sentence. Your in-laws, so your wife's family, should make a power move by offering you their daughter? But their daughter is already your wife.... Maybe there's a translation issue and you don't mean in-laws.

 

[GetOutOfMyLab]

Has there been any examples of sharing that's not the MC sharing his girls? There is a lot of talk about the in-universe lore of cuckold behavior, but I can't seem to see any evidence of this happening from the perspective of someone not MC.

I wouldn't count Igors niece personally, but perhaps some would disagree. There certainly isn't any examples of the "Hello, welcome. Have some tea, crumpets and my daughters mouth" that you see with MC.

There is even clearly noted how very bad it would be if your in-law discovers you fucked his daughter or how he reacts to you fondling his wife's shoulders. By some of the logic I've read here, your in-law should make a power move by offering you his wife or daughter.

I also wouldn't count Igor's niece. I don't recall there being any mention whether or not he's ever done anything with her, though, that doesn't mean he hasn't. Either way, that transaction was more of, "please take care of my niece because I trust you".

But you're right, I don't think there is yet anywhere in the game where someone else has offered to Z, with exception to the Queen offering one of her slaves.

And I think the Omar bit will happen eventually...or Z will just take Rabiah. But the thing with Omar, he's from somewhere that the mentality of offering your wife's services is not part of their culture. So he's very weirded out by Zetan culture right now. I think it will lead to Z showing him how the culture is and eventually he will get on board.

 

[muschi26]

eh, not how I see it. It's like, MC could tell Zahra to get on her knees, open her mouth, and then use her like a toilet if he wanted. That can be seen as "positive" empowerment, I guess? Because she's doing it for the very reasons you say, such as his desirability, etc.

Anyway, my point was more about how everyone can view these things differently. The feeling of empowerment can come from different mindsets. A certain fetish can do different things for them depending on their mindset/viewpoint of it.

Regardless, I'm in favor of the story's lore on why the sharing can occur in this society. I feel it adds more depth and shows MC isn't offering his women's services simply because he gets off on them being with other men.

My point is that, if Zaton tells Zahra to be his toilet, which I would label a negative case, the authority goes from the top down in a sense. That is, Zaton orders something, he has authority over Zahra, and so she disregards her own desires and complies with Zaton's.

Just to give a vastly different example, if Zaton were to tell Zahra to give food to a beggar, which would be a positive case, instead of doing as he says uniquely because of his authority, Zahra might instead recognize the intent behind the order (since it is more in line with positive traits, here charity) and agree with it, and thus be driven to comply not only out of a sense of loyalty, but also because she herself comes to desire it, in a way.

So fundamentally, my distinction between positive and negative empowerment might be described as a distinction between inspiration and abnegation.

In this case, we might interpret Zahra's obeying Zaton in servicing Igor to be not her saying, “My husband has ordered me, and so I must do this humiliating thing,” but instead, “My husband wishes to show hospitality (in the Zetan fashion) to his close friend, and so I will do this for him gladly.” Those would be the two ends of the spectrum; in reality, it's likely a more complex middling situation.

It's true that there are many ways to frame the same act, in accordance with diverse fetishes, etc.

 

[hysepReC]

Has there been any examples of sharing that's not the MC sharing his girls? There is a lot of talk about the in-universe lore of cuckold behavior, but I can't seem to see any evidence of this happening from the perspective of someone not MC.

There aren't any because that part of the lore only exists to justify the MC being a cuck lol

 

[Zolse]

And I think the Omar bit will happen eventually...or Z will just take Rabiah. But the thing with Omar, he's from somewhere that the mentality of offering your wife's services is not part of their culture. So he's very weirded out by Zetan culture right now. I think it will lead to Z showing him how the culture is and eventually he will get on board.

Yeah, I'm not done with everything, but Omar seems like handy victim waiting to happen. Poor dude.

It's not really accurate to even call that "cuckold" behavior, that makes it sound like he's sitting in a corner furious wanking instead of commanding his wife to entertain the guests - i mean lets get real, by that logic a pimp is a cuckold. Though I'd agree that the story would benefit overall and the world setting would benefit from other NPCs offering you their family members as a show of respect or whatever....

"your in-law should make a power move by offering you his wife or daughter" - I dont really understand what you mean with this sentence. Your in-laws, so your wife's family, should make a power move by offering you their daughter? But their daughter is already your wife.... Maybe there's a translation issue and you don't mean in-laws.

It's unequivocally cuckold behavior. If any man offered me his woman I'd instantly consider him that. No matter his power. But there is no point "arguing" over something we'll never agree on.

By in-law I just meant Omar. Pretty sure he is considered an in-law. I just couldn't recall his name.

There aren't any because that part of the lore only exists to justify the MC being a cuck lol

Pretty much exactly my thoughts. Why write dissertations excusing something when the reality is right there?

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

It's unequivocally cuckold behavior. If any man offered me his woman I'd instantly consider him that. No matter his power. But there is no point "arguing" over something we'll never agree on.

Probably not. Are pimps cucks then in your world?

 

[Zolse]

Probably not. Are pimps cucks then in your world?

I don't think you're arguing honestly. What kind of pimp lives with, marries and loves his whores? Unless you're arguing MC considers his wife and daughter prostitutes I'm not really seeing it. I don't think "his woman" needed clarification that I didn't mean a pimp and a whore

 

[GetOutOfMyLab]

Yeah, I'm not done with everything, but Omar seems like handy victim waiting to happen. Poor dude.

Indeed he is.

It's unequivocally cuckold behavior. If any man offered me his woman I'd instantly consider him that. No matter his power.

eh...there's various definitions online. From a biological standpoint, it's about the cuckoo bird (where cuckold derives from) laying its eggs in other birds nests for them to take care of. In human sexuality, it's more about the wife being adulterous (not having permission)..but then seems to have evolved to when the husband being excited about it and encouraging it. There's the humiliation aspect, also, that some men get from it. And then back to the cuckoo bird laying its eggs in other bird's nests...there are some cuckolds who go even further by letting another man impregnate their wife and then taking care of the resulting child.

Anyway...none of those things seem to be the MC here. It's part of their culture, much like in Roman society where everyone was more sexually free.

 

[JaxMan]

Has there been any examples of sharing that's not the MC sharing his girls? There is a lot of talk about the in-universe lore of cuckold behavior, but I can't seem to see any evidence of this happening from the perspective of someone not MC.

I wouldn't count Igors niece personally, but perhaps some would disagree. There certainly isn't any examples of the "Hello, welcome. Have some tea, crumpets and my daughters mouth" that you see with MC.

There is even clearly noted how very bad it would be if your in-law discovers you fucked his daughter or how he reacts to you fondling his wife's shoulders. By some of the logic I've read here, your in-law should make a power move by offering you his wife or daughter.

Well, there was an moment at the oasis that looked like it could have happened with everyone if the MC and Shani were interested, but the choice was not present. The Queen shares her slaves. There has been very few, if any, other males that you have encountered who would be in a position to share. Igor's niece wasn't his to share, so doesn't count. Maybe the general counts as he could have offered his sister, but that wasn't something he would do, personal choice as it were. His BIL doesn't count since he doesn't have the power in his household to do something like that. So, the lack of many examples doesn't really mean anything. We would need to meet more people like the MC

 

[jimmyjambles]

It's unequivocally cuckold behavior. If any man offered me his woman I'd instantly consider him that. No matter his power. But there is no point "arguing" over something we'll never agree on.

Cuckholding is inherently non-consensual. There is literally no way to define cuckoldry without the component of consent. If Igor had pressured Zetan into sharing, then sure, cuckoldry would enter the picture. Instead, Zetan volunteered his women without any pre-existing expectation from the other party, and Zetan had total control over the nature and extent of the arrangement.

This isn't a matter of people deciding to disagree. Sometimes one person is simply incorrect in their understanding of a word or concept.

 

[JaxMan]

Indeed he is.


eh...there's various definitions online. From a biological standpoint, it's about the cuckoo bird (where cuckold derives from) laying its eggs in other birds nests for them to take care of. In human sexuality, it's more about the wife being adulterous (not having permission)..but then seems to have evolved to when the husband being excited about it and encouraging it. There's the humiliation aspect, also, that some men get from it. And then back to the cuckoo bird laying its eggs in other bird's nests...there are some cuckolds who go even further by letting another man impregnate their wife and then taking care of the resulting child.

Anyway...none of those things seem to be the MC here. It's part of their culture, much like in Roman society where everyone was more sexually free.

Yes, sharing, at least in the real world, is a mutual decision by the woman and man, usually both particiapating and isn't meant to humilate or degrade the other person. Here it seems it means to show hospitality and part of that is to provide sexual pleasure if your guest so chooses to participate.

 

[Zolse]

eh...there's various definitions online. From a biological standpoint, it's about the cuckoo bird (where cuckold derives from) laying its eggs in other birds nests for them to take care of. In human sexuality, it's more about the wife being adulterous (not having permission)..but then seems to have evolved to when the husband being excited about it and encouraging it. There's the humiliation aspect, also, that some men get from it. And then back to the cuckoo bird laying its eggs in other bird's nests...there are some cuckolds who go even further by letting another man impregnate their wife and then taking care of the resulting child.

Anyway...none of those things seem to be the MC here. It's part of their culture, much like in Roman society where everyone was more sexually free.

Yeah, cuck has had it's meaning changed quite a bit with the internet. You can easily find books where men would accuse their spouse of "making a cuckold out of them". I read that as it being more of descriptive and not concretely derogatory like many consider it now.

I don't agree with the whole culture part until we some actual proof. A lore text just seems like an excuse to me. But I agree it doesn't specifically write the MC into being a cuck, but it does make the player into one.

Cuckholding is inherently non-consensual. There is literally no way to define cuckoldry without the component of consent. If Igor had pressured Zetan into sharing, then sure, cuckoldry would enter the picture. Instead, Zetan volunteered his women without any pre-existing expectation from the other party, and Zetan had total control over the nature and extent of the arrangement.

This isn't a matter of people deciding to disagree. Sometimes one person is simply incorrect in their understanding of a word or concept.

Cuckoldry is already established in written text as a fetish and it does involve mutual agreement. Referencing a Cambridge dictionary and disregarding a decade of cultural actualities is nonsensical.
I think a site update killed my post

Anyway I'm bed. Goodnight.