The immense difference in the romantic scene between Fiona and Ashe differing hugely because of choosing one particular route is the definitive proof of how your point is super valid and making fixed routes is a mistake. Hell kicking rapist cop and running away is also a sort of defiance and sort of Siren path yet it is locked on to Kitten path only.
- Nov 13, 2023
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Yeah after reading that, and checking in the game myself. Especially on the other paths. I've found myself concurring with him. Rachel isn't even a good person, let alone a good sister or "soulmate".
I'm really struggling to believe the dev is fully aware of the monsters they have and are creating. Like almost no one seems like a decent individual in this game so far.
I didn’t mean your life personally, I meant it as a general statement.
- Nov 13, 2023
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It’s also muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch more satisfying than bloody texting her to piss off and then blocking her number.
- Jun 4, 2018
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It's nice to have some affirmation that I'm not entirely batshit insane, I've been getting alarm bells ringing for essentially the entire cast for most of the game but it's always easy to start second guessing oneself a bit when faced with a lot of opposition.
But yeah, I stand firm in that the vast majority of the characters seem to be geared towards taking what they want from Ashe instead of actually engaging in a meaningful relationship - whether friendship or romantically, outside of Fiona pretty much.
I do think that this is entirely intended by the dev, I can't imagine that they wouldn't realize what they've done, even though I've had the dev rebuke me before for "judging Rachel and her actions a bit too harsh" (not a direct quote but basically what was said).
I guess we'll have to wait and see how things turn out, but I am fully expecting Ashe to keep getting taken advantage of and taking L's continuously, which does make it feel like the Kitten path is the only canonical path for her.
- Jul 25, 2017
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I tend to separate characters into Version A , B and so on depending on the branching. So for me id say the Cuckqueen version of Rachael yeah is more selfish and not as good of person. On the other paths for me I consider her just about as good a person as Ashe more or less both made mistakes. ( Rachael more than Ashe). Though Ashe does come out slightly ahead for me. At least until she does something else that is fucked up on the other paths haha. But for now my opinion of her hasn't change any for 2 out 3 of the paths.
I feel like this has to be very close to some real concerns of the dev. But like, seriously, who complained? Every single "cuck" thing had been extremely light and fully under the player's control before the route split, then it gets dialed to 11 on some plotlines, specially with Rachel and Evelyn, but also some really light stuff like Fiona accidentally seeing Evelyn naked gets removed from other routes so you don't see those fun scenes unless you commited to the cuckqueen route.
The game already has the option to have content tags superimposed on the choices, so it is not like you could accidentally get NTR scenes.
The only thing I can imagine people complaining is that technically Cleo gropes Rachel a bit during the pool event and you can only call her out and make her back off after it? But would take some seriously thin skin to want the game to have a specific cuck route to "quarantine" all of the vaguely "cuck" stuff because of light stuff like that, specially when you could already deal with it through in-story means.
In the early content Lexi was already mutually exclusive with Natasha. I'm fine with there being some exclusive "siren" only scenes and partners and others exclusive to "kitten".
To be fair on Lexi's characterization, she mentions she is a lightweight with alcohol and the "cuckqueen" route involves Ashe keeping her around the bar for much longer while also ignoring her to check on her phone from any updates from Rachel. Lexi ends up having way more drinks and spends most of the time talking/flirting with the bartender instead of Ashe.
If "siren" Ashe decided to just leave early I don't see why it would be impossible for Lexi to stay around a bit longer and end up flirting with the bartender like she does in the CQ route.
Also idk I feel there is a bit of double-standard here, "CQ Lexi is such a slut she went off to suck that bartender just because they have a big dick" while "Siren Lexi so cute, she asked to get fucked in the ass because Ashe just has that much rizz
". I mean, who's to say Layla wasn't putting on some serious moves offscreen while Ashe was off checking her phone? Either way Lexi is just kinda slutty in both scenarios imo.Exactly, it would be easy to make most things optional or impacted by other more sensible criteria with barely any change to the written dialogue, at most just some very minor transition work. And despite it being unique post route-split, I haven't seen anyone complaining about being given the choice during Kate's scene instead of having it arbitrarly forced one way or another.
I appreciate the offer, but I have no interest in writing any actual new content. This is MorriganRae's story and I really don't think I could do it any justice with original content.
The point would be mostly to just replace every time the route switches are used with menu choices, related story switches the game has already set, or restoring functionality to the "dommescore" and "cuckscore" variables. At most I'd have to write brief transitions into the menu choices or to connect some content that will stop being mutually exclusive.
Idea would be mostly to use dommescore to decide for most of the fluff dialogue and then go with the old system of some things getting decided automatically if your dommescore is too low or too high and being given the choice if its floating around the middle. Most CQ content would still be made fully optional, but also gated behind a cuckscore check which would be based on how hard the NTR is (so like, seriously if you complain about how you somehow got a cuck scene, there is something seriously wrong with you), but stuff like Fiona walking in on Evelyn naked would be made part of the mandatory story because frankly it is too funny to be missable, specially with how harmless it is (at most put a "cuckscore > 0" check to enable it).
Choices in how to deal with Natasha would still be free choices to not limit anything the base game already isn't, but would have a big weight on the variables, dommescore increase if you go "siren", decrease if you go "kitten" (but possibility to reverse it if you break out of Natasha's hold), and high increase to cuckscore if you go CQ.
The problem with Fiona's scene specifically is that the "Siren" scene needs either a massive uplift or to not exist as an alternative to the "Kitten" scene because the difference of quality is just too big.
Despite the fact I would say the core of the scene is still for it to be very romantic and passionate, I have no problem with saying the "Kitten" variation is still submissive-leaning because the heart of the scene is still Ashe's vulnerability and how Fiona pushes it to give her a blissful sexual experience.
Which is completely fine, Fiona didn't go into it with the intent of sexually dominating Ashe and neither did Ashe go into it with the expectative of getting owned by Fiona, it is just something that happened in the moment because Ashe ended up getting so aroused that she made herself vulnerable and, seeing that, Fiona got fixated on giving Ashe as much pleasure as she could.
And honestly, this is Ashe giving her vaginal virginity to her best friend with who she has a lot of sexual tension while also carrying all the baggage and conflicting feelings about being a "duplo", if it is not okay to write Ashe as vulnerable here then when the fuck would it be okay? It is simply unrealistic to try to write this scene with passion without showcasing Ashe's vulnerability.
And that's the fundamental issue with the "Siren" version of this scene, it tries to force a version of the scene without showcasing Ashe's vulnerability, because gotta make a point of trying to force this idea of a "Siren" Ashe onto the story. So we end up with way less sensual things happening and the writing being mostly dry descriptions that don't even fully match the action on the renders.
If instead of "Siren" trying to be a mutually exclusive alternative to the "Kitten" version (which is the better version of this scene) it tried being something that added to it, it would be a much more interesting dynamic.
(For example, if the Siren part of this scene was that, after the passionate first few orgasms, something builds up inside Ashe because she sees how hard Fiona was working to make her feel good, and how cool she was about the entire duplo thing, and Ashe decides that she also really wants to make Fiona feel good too and make her cum, so she takes the lead and starts riding cowgirl and doing her best to hold out her last orgasm until she also makes Fiona cum)
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- Apr 29, 2023
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Yeah, no need to convince me, I thought it was blatantly obvious, but with a facade of deniability that's probably the spice for those that enjoy that sort of NTR.
- Jun 4, 2018
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I thought it was blatantly obvious aswell, the whole "hidden affair" type deal is a staple in NTR and has been from the very beginning, honestly I'd be absolutely stunned if nothing happened, especially given how Rachel reacted when Ashe started questioning her.
Yeah Eruption Imminent maybe a story about how Ashe finally erupts after everything and everyone around her uses her and betrays her adding to the trauma so much that ultimately the Demonic Doppelganger voice in her head finally wins.
- Apr 29, 2023
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I'd agree with you except the CQ route seems like a fantasy alternate reality, where fundamentals of characters change. I don't think you can take examples from the CQ route and infer them back to the character's attributes in general.
But CQ Rachel is a shitty person, that I'll agree on.
- Jun 4, 2018
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Honestly, that might not be too far off from what the dev is intending, but that being said, it would be weird to include the NTR route if that was the case.
There are just too many questions about what the game is trying to do and what it's actually achieving with the design philosophy it currently has.
- Apr 29, 2023
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There's a latina dom cop in a game (A Shot in the Dark) that's very big on consent, but that's the closest I can think of.
- Jun 4, 2018
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As a fan of that game, that's one of my favourite characters. It's very rare to find actually well-written dom characters in games nowadays and that's a really good example of one.
- Apr 29, 2023
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I'm not normally a fan of femdom, but that was it done right. Plus the safeword mechanic was so well done. Burned into my brain as an example of good practices for dom in VNs. And a cop character I didn't immediately hate, which is also rare!
And perhaps this is why I hate NTR in games where it was not meant to have a sole concept because it relies on this suspension of disbelief that the character in that NTR route just gave up all their morals and became a cheating wench just for the excitement.
There is another game, called Bound By Lust, which has some of the highest rated Honey Select custom animations you can ever find and the Dev improves with each update. In that if you choose NTR as an option, one major character who is like a aunt figure and a milf seems decent and morally upright person. When the MC romances them, they have to undergo a huge arc before he can have romantic hardcore scenes with her.
Yet if you choose NTR as option, there is such a tonal shift because in only one event the Cucking character literally treats and uses that MILF figure as a literal toilet and has more hardcore scenes than anything in the game because Dev is using their highest skill to craft these animations. I was surprised with this like was she always like this? I asked Dev and they said they don't have time to develop a NTR relationship. A fan asked them so they made it as quickly as possible and focused an entire update on upending her own character.
But she was a female character albeit a cop. I was asking about male black characters those that are consistently stereotyped.
I think CQ route is still believable for now if you go with the theory that Evelyn is getting spiked with elysium.
-CQ Lexi: Already made my argument above that she is pretty slutty either way, but she gets way more hammered in the CQ route so could explain her behavior
-CQ Zoey: She flashed you during the pizza delivery, if you don't give Fiona a handy yourself she will suck her off in front of you during the sleepover, then she has sex with Ashe and lets her know she isn't looking for a serious relationship. Those are all canon events from before the route split. Really not out of character she would have a fling with a literal pornstar if she ran into one during her vacations (Jordan is one of the porn actresses in that gangbang porn video Ashe can watch early in the game)
-CQ Evelyn: This is the one who behaves the most out of character in the story...until you consider the possibility that she is being spiked with elysium. Outside of the CQ route, the game makes a point to mention that Stella took her out for dinner to eat oysters (game explicitely points out they are an aphrodisiac), but that ultimately she didn't really feel things click enough and she decided to stop things at the dinner itself.
Now consider the idea that in the CQ route, instead of using something basic like oysters to get Evelyn in the mood that Stella would instead use Elysium, a strong aphrodisiac drug the game soon reveals that it easily dissolves in water and is tasteless. Then take that thought and consider how much emphasis Stella's introduction places on the glass of water she was holding in the kitchen when Ashe runs into her, and how the water in the glass was faintly bubbly when she sets it down on the counter.
I fully believe that might have been a hint that Stella was taking elysium to make the sex even better for herself too, which also helps explain her extremely degenerate behavior in letting Ashe watch and masturbate herself while watching them. If she had elysium for herself, not hard to assume she could have spiked Evelyn.
-CQ Rachel: I don't know, Rachel is mysterious. Some people are convinced she is already up to no good regardless of the CQ route so hard to gauge her character. Even if she is a good person with no dark secrets being kept from Ashe, I could see the CQ route for her playing out like she gets super pissed about Ashe being so overprotective despite the fact they agreed that Rachel would never romantically belong to Ashe so she plays into Natasha's mindgames just to spite Ashe.
- Apr 29, 2023
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Agreed, that's why I said the 'closest I could think of' because it ticked 2 out of 3 boxes. I think there's some black best friend characters sprinkled around that avoid the fetishization, but no black men that are LIs, just bulls to cuck and steal. It's pretty sad.
- Jun 4, 2018
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I generally agree with all of this, just with a few caveats for Evelyn and Rachel.
We don't know Evelyn that well, Ashe doesn't exactly come off as someone who has deep conversations with her mom, and Evelyn doesn't come off as someone who talks about her sexlife openly, so she could very well be more on the promiscuous side but that Ashe hasn't ever noticed it before.
It's information that we aren't privy to, so while getting drugged is honestly the more logical explanation since NTR routes thoroughly loves corruption and having a mother-figure get drugged/manipulated over time to become a wanton slut is entirely within that alley, there could also be the explanation that it's simply the way she's been yet she hasn't really had the desire or time to act on it due to the loss of her partner.
And Rachel, honestly, it's hard for me to see her as someone who doesn't act after a selfish agenda, so I can definitely see her going way too far just to spite Ashe because 'it's her life and she gets to choose, not Ashe' type of deal, I can equally see that girl doing this because she enjoys using her sister as a twisted sexual outlet as she knows Ashe can never have her, so she enjoys tormenting her that way.
Other than that however, I fully agree with the assessment of the other characters, especially that Lexi seems to naturally be more slutty than what most seem to assume.
EDIT- honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that Rachel talked Evelyn into dating again, given Rachel's.. peculiar sexual interest which seems to be centered around Ashe, she might have thought that she could have a double whammy there. Though it's unlikely as she clearly has no idea whether or not Ashe has any interest in Evelyn to begin with, but it popped up into my head once I started thinking about how Rachel is currently acting and what she's like.
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- Apr 29, 2023
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You make good points, but I still think they point to an alternate reality. Why did Zoey run into that pornstar (good catch, I missed where she was from, though she looked familiar) on 1 of 3 routes, and not the others? Or at least take her back to fuck? Because as you point out, she's a bit of a good time girl with no commitment to Ashe, so why wouldn't she take the opportunity on the Siren and Kitten paths?
And why did Stella not spike Evelyn on those other two paths? My point is that the Siren and Kitten paths are different because of Ashe's actions, the CQ path is different because the world around Ashe is different (though Lexi is pretty much Ashe's fault in how it plays out differently). With Rachel it's hard to tell if it's because Ashe chose to let her be exposed to Natasha, so it is her fault, or if Rachel/Natasha act differently (or Elysium strikes again) in that different timeline.