VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.8.5 Public] [Caribdis]

[Pax Draconis]

When suggesting other characters to cut for more Eva (jokingly or otherwise), no one is putting forward the obvious: Gertrude.
She does nothing but take up space and be annoying. What has she contributed so far?

• A means for Nancy to get a cheap implant. Substitute a short paragraph in another scene where Nancy says Ulysses gave all higher level employees at her company a free implant as part of the agreement for using her company's resources. Doesn't even need an additional render.
• She played a minor part in the scheme to access to the laptop. Since she was never supposed to be there, her presence was not necessary.

Is there anyone here who would pick Gertrude over Eva if given the choice?

Ultimately, I trust that Caribdis will do what he thinks is right for the story. Some of that will please me (most of it, based on events up to now) and some won't.

Gertrude serves the comedy relief aspect of the story. She's there to make the Orion is trans joke and to serve as a foil/deus ex machina for Nancy. She probably won't be cut since Caribdis likes recurring joke characters. (Mike, Tom in OIAL, Jerry, etc.) While Eva might serve another type of relief I doubt she'll be back although I agree with your idea. More diversity in characters you interact with add more intrigue.
Overall though I have to agree with the consensus, we have a bunch more LIs who need to have their cards punched and given children.

 

[Deleted member 6628651]

Uhm...we already know there there will be more than 10 episodes and that we likely see something like 0.15 before we will see a 1.0 version.

We'll see what Cari does, but fucking Eva outside of the harem girls really feels kinda like cheating at this point, I don't think I would be okay with that.

Did you mean [1.5]? Current version is [0.6] not [0.06].

I certainly think everyone wants more episodes for this masterpiece. If there will be more than 10 episodes, then Eva should be in LIs too. She was Orion's first, and is a pretty hot babe. Who wouldn't want that girl in his harem?

 

[Takkatakka]

Did you mean [1.5]? Current version is [0.6] not [0.06].

I certainly think everyone wants more episodes for this masterpiece. If there will be more than 10 episodes, then Eva should be in LIs too. She was Orion's first, and is a pretty hot babe. Who wouldn't want that girl in his harem?

I mean, in the end Cari can name the versions pretty much as he wants, but the normal way would be something like 0.6...0.9, 0.10...0.16 and then, when it is done the jump to 1.0

Cari has already confirmed that there will be more than 10 episodes and that the 10th episode won't be 1.0

 

[quorkboy]

Gertrude serves the comedy relief aspect of the story. She's there to make the Orion is trans joke and to serve as a foil/deus ex machina for Nancy. She probably won't be cut since Caribdis likes recurring joke characters. (Mike, Tom in OIAL, Jerry, etc.) While Eva might serve another type of relief I doubt she'll be back although I agree with your idea. More diversity in characters you interact with add more intrigue.
Overall though I have to agree with the consensus, we have a bunch more LIs who need to have their cards punched and given children.

Comedies (which Eternum is, along with being sci-fi, mystery, and fantasy) don't need comic relief.

(to be clear, I'm not seriously suggesting her scenes be cut; or any scenes be cut; Caribdis should write the story he wants to write)

 

[Takkatakka]

Comedies (which Eternum is, along with being sci-fi, mystery, and fantasy) don't need comic relief.

Call her what you want, but she is funny, so she helps the story.

 

[quorkboy]

I think it's too late to add Eva to the harem. There has been discussion about whether or not Orion is being deceitful by not telling each of them about the others he has been with, but up to now I don't think that's a problem. He's not dating any of them (not even Annie, yet), and more than one has asked/demanded that he keep it to himself. But a big part of why is because they're becoming a close group of friends, which is an essential part of a harem (at least any that I'd want to be part of). Hence Annie's comments about possibly hooking up with Dalia (when she asks for more kissing practice and says she needs it because "What if Dalia suddenly kisses me one day?"), or having Nancy join in a threesome with her and Orion (when he says Nancy would probably want to if she caught them and Annie says "Do you think she'd really ask that?") don't seem out of place.

Adding Eva now as an LI requires a relationship dynamic that is not present, and would be more difficult to add at this stage.

 

[Takkatakka]

I think it's too late to add Eva to the harem. There has been discussion about whether or not Orion is being deceitful by not telling each of them about the others he has been with, but up to now I don't think that's a problem. He's not dating any of them (not even Annie, yet), and more than one has asked/demanded that he keep it to himself. But a big part of why is because they're becoming a close group of friends, which is an essential part of a harem (at least any that I'd want to be part of). Hence Annie's comments about possibly hooking up with Dalia (when she asks for more kissing practice and says she needs it because "What if Dalia suddenly kisses me one day?"), or having Nancy join in a threesome with her and Orion (when he says Nancy would probably want to if she caught them and Annie says "Do you think she'd really ask that?") don't seem out of place.

Adding Eva now as an LI requires a relationship dynamic that is not present, and would be more difficult to add at this stage.

Yes and the obvious point would simply be: If Eva was supposed to be part of the harem...why isn't she already? She was introduced very early, so if she was supposed to become a part of the harem, it would've been possible to integrate her all the way back in like 0.1 or 0.2.

I might actually object to the bit about Annie though. It very much seems like she thinks that Orion and her are in somewhat of an early stage of a committed relationship at this point and I would suggest that she has pretty good reasons to do so (considering for example the dialogue between her and Orion in the kitchen). The kiss with Luna also sends considerable signals towards her in my opinion (obviously one kiss doesn't make a relationship, but still).

That actually brings up a new aspect: At what point does Orion need to tell the girls what is going on between him and...well...all of them? I don't think that point can be pushed much farther than 0.7 or 0.8 without Orion starting to look like an asshole for leading all the girls on.

 

[MagnusTempestus6]

Just like the Clone device will be used for a Lewd scene, and not for the plot.

How I imagine this goes down:
- only naughty plans in Orion's mind
- Nova "threesome"
- someone comes in when the clone is still there and asks what's going on
- after the explanation of the clone the question comes up: "Couldn't we have used that for that really difficult and dangerous thing?"

Spoiler: comprehension in 3..2..1

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I think it's too late to add Eva to the harem.

That was not the point (edit: at least not mine), only a few more scenes she appears in (not even necessarily of a lewd nature). Some people, I may perhaps be one of them, really liked her character and in contrast to other side encounters she already got other integrations like in the recent update and I thought it to be quite funny and well done. Can you blame a man for being wanting?

 

[quorkboy]

That was not the point (edit: at least not mine), only a few more scenes she appears in (not even necessarily of a lewd nature). Some people, I may perhaps be one of them, really liked her character and in contrast to other side encounters she already got other integrations like in the recent update and I thought it to be quite funny and well done. Can you blame a man for being wanting?

It's possible context got lost along the way, but my original posts were exactly along these lines. I think Eva is one of the most interesting side characters (to me much more interesting than any of the other side characters) and I want to know more about her. I'd even prefer additional scenes not be lewd. Because it's her as a person I'm most interested in (and also all I said about how it would not work well with the current group status).

edit: it occurs to me now I started writing the "why she shouldn't be an LI" post in response to someone who suggested she could be, and forgot to quote them, then other posts arrived in between.

 

[quorkboy]

Yes and the obvious point would simply be: If Eva was supposed to be part of the harem...why isn't she already? She was introduced very early, so if she was supposed to become a part of the harem, it would've been possible to integrate her all the way back in like 0.1 or 0.2.

I might actually object to the bit about Annie though. It very much seems like she thinks that Orion and her are in somewhat of an early stage of a committed relationship at this point and I would suggest that she has pretty good reasons to do so (considering for example the dialogue between her and Orion in the kitchen). The kiss with Luna also sends considerable signals towards her in my opinion (obviously one kiss doesn't make a relationship, but still).

That actually brings up a new aspect: At what point does Orion need to tell the girls what is going on between him and...well...all of them? I don't think that point can be pushed much farther than 0.7 or 0.8 without Orion starting to look like an asshole for leading all the girls on.

Yes, it's getting complicated now. But Annie still frames what they are doing as "practice" – I know, she's shy, but she also knows how much Orion cares for her as more than a friend, and for how long he has cared, and if she wants him to treat what they're doing as a committed relationship, she'd be up for the challenge of saying so. She's being more direct about what she wants, sexually if not emotionally. Her assertiveness when she was trying to show the others what she can do with her magic also shows she's not as timid as she used to be. And those two things she said, to me, are her saying that she'd be okay with sharing him – perhaps more than okay, given that her comment about Dalia did not even include him. I think she has a crush on Dalia.

Luna is trickier. She's more vulnerable than Annie, because until now the possibility of a physical relationship, and therefore probably any romantic relationship, has not been available for her due to her psychic ability. Of all of them, she's the one most likely to be hurt by finding out he's involved with anyone else. I think she'll accept it relatively easily (she's too sweet and loves them all too much not to) but he needs to tell her before things go much further.

As you say, beyond the next couple of updates I don't think I'll be able to defend him anymore. And he's close to being found out by Dalia or Penny, both of whom are aware the other is interested. Nova knows Penny is interested. I can't imagine it being too long before one of them figures out what he's doing. Better for him that he admits it first.

 

[Dorfnutter]

Besides [1.0] may not be the last episode of Eternum. Who knows?

About that...

That said, it probably won't reach 20 unless he introduces a bunch of new stuff in later updates that would necessitate having to stretch the plot for even longer.

 

[MagnusTempestus6]

That said, it probably won't reach 20 unless he introduces a bunch of new stuff in later updates that would necessitate having to stretch the plot for even longer.

That has me thinking, maybe we will get a larger and actually playable epilogue. The ones in OIALT were, well... ok, but quite short or mostly photo streaks iirc. At least the main ending could get some extra juice. Eternum would deserve it.

 

[Dylan741]

That has me thinking, maybe we will get a larger and actually playable epilogue. The ones in OIALT were, well... ok, but quite short or mostly photo streaks iirc. At least the main ending could get some extra juice. Eternum would deserve it.

Well of the many things we've seen so far in Eternum is that it improved every skills of Caribdis as an author, so I'm fairly certain that Eternum will have a proper ending ( and much more).
We can say he learned from his experience during the development of OIAL and polished what was weak or rough at the time, and then was used to increase the quality of his work.
I don't know if extras will be included, I'm seeing that they are already present in the main game ( the alternate endings if you make a wrong choice are an example, they are better structured than in OIAL imho).
A game like this will probably be just the beginning, because it seems to me like the foundation for a whole universe that will give him the possibility of creating lots of other games that have this as the pivot, the Caribdiverse if you like it.
This is only the beginning, there's still lots to show.

 

[Takkatakka]

Well of the many things we've seen so far in Eternum is that it improved every skills of Caribdis as an author, so I'm fairly certain that Eternum will have a proper ending ( and much more).

Probably the only thing that could prevent that would be Cari getting impatient and wanting to start the new game already forming in his head, so he starts rushing the ending. Somewhat similar as it seems to have happened with OiaL.

 

[Dylan741]

Probably the only thing that could prevent that would be Cari getting impatient and wanting to start the new game already forming in his head, so he starts rushing the ending. Somewhat similar as it seems to have happened with OiaL.

Let's hope not!!
I want a proper ending for all the girls, and for the story too or there will be pitchforks!!!

 

[bolenart]

I think one solution to the issue of how they all will accept being in a harem is to make the girls fall for each other to some degree; for instance if there's sexual tension between Nova and Penny, and they are both into Orion, then those three would plausibly agree to form a love triangle. Then you can pair up Dalia and Alex, they form another triangle with Orion and eventually all five agree to be part of a polyamourous quintuple. Then you just work in the rest in a similar fashion. The key being strong bonds between pairs of girls; bonds that are independent of Orion.

This set-up which is more of a big polyamorous group than a harem is a bit more realistic I think, but I guess some fans might want Orion to be the clear center of it all, and have the girls all vying for his attention as is more typical for these harem games.

 

[Deleted member 6628651]

I mean, in the end Cari can name the versions pretty much as he wants, but the normal way would be something like 0.6...0.9, 0.10...0.16 and then, when it is done the jump to 1.0

Cari has already confirmed that there will be more than 10 episodes and that the 10th episode won't be 1.0

Oh, ok. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

 

[agrdtcwa]

Probably the only thing that could prevent that would be Cari getting impatient and wanting to start the new game already forming in his head, so he starts rushing the ending. Somewhat similar as it seems to have happened with OiaL.

I thought the harem ending was fine. Solo endings may be rushed but this game just like once in a lifetime is designed to be a harem game.

 

[SerHawkes]

I thought the harem ending was fine.

It was lack luster. Sure, fine that we get all the waifus, but lacked substance, lewds, cross pairings, etc.

 

[Dorfnutter]

Probably the only thing that could prevent that would be Cari getting impatient and wanting to start the new game already forming in his head, so he starts rushing the ending. Somewhat similar as it seems to have happened with OiaL.

From my understanding Cari made OIAL with just a general idea of the story, with everything else he made up as he went. With Eternum there seems to be a more deliberate foundation given that he's mentioned on his official Discord that he already has all of the story beats outlined from beginning to end, with the only things he hadn't being the LI events as he likely wants to be flexible with that.

Point being, IMO there's little danger of a repeat of OIAL's epilogue given that he has a clearer idea as to where things are headed and all he has to do is to work his way up to that point. And as Dylan741 had said (which I am in perfect agreement with), this game seems to be Cari's "Fate/Stay Night," where he basically solidifies and lays out the actual lore and rules of his universe instead of just making it up as he went for the most part like he did in OIAL.