VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.8.5 Public] [Caribdis]

[khumak]

DAZ might get you on Steam, but it costs more money to build an asset library, and with that comes financial risks.

Also, DAZ has even more UI problems than Studio Neo (The HS studio engine), is a bastard to work in, and with all of this you end up with girls that look like Barbies, and guys who look like Kens. I am of the same opinion as Caribdis, I don't like DAZ in any way. HS2 sucks, but DAZ is worse, more expensive, and produces a look I find ugly.

Edit: Oh, and to make matters worse, DAZ is so inefficient at rendering (because IRay is awful) that it requires additional beefy PCs for producing images and animations. With studio Neo, 4k renders (even with character skins modded into infinity), take no more than ten seconds, and 4k animations are only a few minutes per second (second edit: On an RTX 3070, it'll obviously be worse on lower end hardware, not that the 3070 is holding up very well right now).

As such, you can see why someone would prefer to "busk" in Studio Neo, than "sell" in DAZ with all the risks and expenses.

Ideally we would all work in blender, but the character and environment creation issue (i.e the time it takes - weeks instead of hours, per character - along with the expense) make this impossible until AI prompt modelling gets a little better. Which I am hoping happens in the two and a half years my Honey Select 2 project will take to complete.

For me it all comes down to visual quality. Most HS games I have seen are noticeably worse looking than a comparable game made with Iray in Daz. This includes Carabdis's previous game. But he dramatically upgraded the visuals for Eternum to the point where it's more a matter of style choice than quality.

So if he likes HS better and can produce visuals of the quality we see in Eternum I see no reason to change. I haven't used HS myself so I can't comment on how easy it is to use. I have used Daz and I find it reasonably easy to use except for animations which are a huge pain in the ass. My current system is really not up to par for rending complex scenes in Iray though. If HS is significantly less demanding from a hardware standpoint I could definitely see why people would prefer that.

The main draw for me to Daz is the availability of art assets made by someone else. I'm not an artist. Daz allows me to make good looking scenes without needing to be an artist. I can buy stuff that other people have made and use that in my scenes. I just need to practice posing and lighting and I'm good to go. I don't think Blender really has many options for that. You have to make everything yourself. If you're an artist that might be fine, although it's going to take you a lot longer than just buying some art assets and setting up a scene with already finished assets. I have no idea what the situation is like for art assets for HS.

 

[Dorfnutter]

For me it all comes down to visual quality. Most HS games I have seen are noticeably worse looking than a comparable game made with Iray in Daz. This includes Carabdis's previous game. But he dramatically upgraded the visuals for Eternum to the point where it's more a matter of style choice than quality.

So if he likes HS better and can produce visuals of the quality we see in Eternum I see no reason to change. I haven't used HS myself so I can't comment on how easy it is to use. I have used Daz and I find it reasonably easy to use except for animations which are a huge pain in the ass. My current system is really not up to par for rending complex scenes in Iray though. If HS is significantly less demanding from a hardware standpoint I could definitely see why people would prefer that.

The main draw for me to Daz is the availability of art assets made by someone else. I'm not an artist. Daz allows me to make good looking scenes without needing to be an artist. I can buy stuff that other people have made and use that in my scenes. I just need to practice posing and lighting and I'm good to go. I don't think Blender really has many options for that. You have to make everything yourself. If you're an artist that might be fine, although it's going to take you a lot longer than just buying some art assets and setting up a scene with already finished assets. I have no idea what the situation is like for art assets for HS.

There are HS2 modders who specialize in porting Daz3D assets to HS Studio upon request (and provided the person requesting the port has purchased the asset in question themselves). Some of the stuff Cari uses in Eternum (such as Idriel's dress and some maps like the University Penny goes to) come from there.

Other than that...well, it's basically the Wild West tho most of the assets that modders churn out come from existing anime and videogames (some of which are ripped directly from the actual game files and ported to the Studio). Of course it's essentially IP infringement, but since the mods are supposed to be "for personal use" only and that no one is supposed to profit from the use of said assets, then everything is basically fair game.

That's not to say everyone who makes assets are just doing port jobs tho, as iirc some modders who make studio maps and weapon assets use Blender to create their own stuff.

 

[khumak]

There are HS2 modders who specialize in porting Daz3D assets to HS Studio upon request (and provided the person requesting the port has purchased the asset in question themselves). Some of the stuff Cari uses in Eternum (such as Idriel's dress and some maps like the University Penny goes to) come from there.

Other than that...well, it's basically the Wild West tho most of the assets that modders churn out come from existing anime and videogames (some of which are ripped directly from the actual game files and ported to the Studio). Of course it's essentially IP infringement, but since the mods are supposed to be "for personal use" only and that no one is supposed to profit from the use of said assets, then everything is basically fair game.

That's not to say everyone who makes assets are just doing port jobs tho, as iirc some modders who make studio maps and weapon assets use Blender to create their own stuff.

Well modding vs creating a game for sale are 2 different things. I have no issues with pirating assets to play around or make a free mod, but if I'm going to actually make something for sale I want to be able to provide proof that I own all the assets I used. Probably not that likely that a little solo dev game is going to get sued but I still wouldn't want to risk it.

I view pirating Daz assets as basically "try before you buy". If I don't like it I won't buy it and won't use it. If I build up a collection of stuff I like and I make a game with it that I plan to actually sell I will retroactively go back and buy all of that stuff, partly for legal reasons but also just to show appreciation to the artist who made that stuff. If I'm profiting off their work, they should be as well.

 

[Lolicon Kami]

DAZ might get you on Steam, but it costs more money to build an asset library, and with that comes financial risks.

Also, DAZ and the current style are two completely different styles. Which means it appeals to two different fanbases. Which means that while some customers may overlap, I'm willing to bet that many current subscribers will leave, and that will need to be offsetted by the new fanbase.

Which, of course, is a risk.

And thank god Caribdis won't go to daz; I'd honestly stop playing the game, no matter how good the story, if it's daz. Just doesn't jive right with me

 

[e6mill]

And thank god Caribdis won't go to daz; I'd honestly stop playing the game, no matter how good the story, if it's daz. Just doesn't jive right with me

Exactly how I feel about 99% of HS stuff.

 

[e6mill]

Then this game isn't your cup of tea Maybe go play a different game and stop harassing me?

This game is in the 1%. And IMO 1 (2 now) comments are a long ways short of harassment. Have a good Thanksgiving.

 

[Lolicon Kami]

This game is in the 1%. And IMO 1 (2 now) comments are a long ways short of harassment. Have a good Thanksgiving.

Sorry about that; I was being a bitch

Have a good thanksgiving!

 

[jvbatman]

The girls in DAZ just always look like awful bimbo barbies treading the uncanny valley. I much prefer the more anime style of HS2 or Koikatsu. Also why do people care so much if a dev posts a game on steam?

 

[Aizen Myo]

The girls in DAZ just always look like awful bimbo barbies treading the uncanny valley. I much prefer the more anime style of HS2 or Koikatsu. Also why do people care so much if a dev posts a game on steam?

DAZ is more of a realistic design with more defined features but also seems fake idk, it looks weird to me for some reason. While you can make something similiar in HS2, it always retain a certain grade of cartoonish/anime style to its models, but not too much, which I prefer. Koikatsu is too anime like for me tho...

 

[Mr.Cailiflower]

DAZ is more of a realistic design with more defined features but also seems fake idk, it looks weird to me for some reason. While you can make something similiar in HS2, it always retain a certain grade of cartoonish/anime style to its models, but not too much, which I prefer. Koikatsu is too anime like for me tho...

DAZ games can look very good too, but it is essentially way harder than HS2. Also doesn't help the fact that your only heat source will be your PC in Siberia if you want high quality renders from DAZ, and that's with the latest tech.

 

[AffreuxProlapse]

DAZ is more of a realistic design with more defined features but also seems fake idk, it looks weird to me for some reason. While you can make something similiar in HS2, it always retain a certain grade of cartoonish/anime style to its models, but not too much, which I prefer. Koikatsu is too anime like for me tho...

I feel exactly the same.
To me, Daz is a fake, plastic bimbo generator.
Koikatsu is way too anime, the characters are looking way too childish too.

I prefer HS or straight 2D art in general. There is also games like Mist which are a breath of fresh air and i have no clue what is being used in this case.

To be honest, i didn't play games like Being a DIK, summer's gone, Projekt passion because I don't like the visuals.

Also most of the animations feels also off, kinda stiff (on Daz).
I mean Eternum animations past 0.4 are legit out of this world.
I still didn't see better animations but again I actually didn't play most of top rated games on this site.

 

[Aizen Myo]

I feel exactly the same.
To me, Daz is a fake, plastic bimbo generator.
Koikatsu is way too anime, the characters are looking way too childish too.

I prefer HS or straight 2D art in general. There is also games like Mist which are a breath of fresh air and i have no clue what is being used in this case.

To be honest, i didn't play games like Being a DIK, summer's gone, Projekt passion because I don't like the visuals.

Also most of the animations feels also off, kinda stiff (on Daz).
I mean Eternum animations past 0.4 are legit out of this world.
I still didn't see better animations but again I actually didn't play most of top rated games on this site.

True, Eternum animations are something else, animations on other games that use HS2 or even HS1 are also great, like Stray Incubus or Ripples, I like it better than games like Being a DIK etc
I also have no idea what was used to make Mist, it's different than any other game I've played
It's not HS, that's for sure

 

[Dorfnutter]

There is also games like Mist which are a breath of fresh air and i have no clue what is being used in this case.

I also have no idea what was used to make Mist, it's different than any other game I've played

Blender.

Also why do people care so much if a dev posts a game on steam?

Prolly just want Cari to get more recognition for his work, tho I'm not sure if this game could even be published there as people here seem to forget that it's a walking pile of copyright infringement that companies (and corpo ass lickers) will no doubt ferally pounce on the moment it hits the storefront.

 

[sexypeanut]

I feel exactly the same.
To me, Daz is a fake, plastic bimbo generator.
Koikatsu is way too anime, the characters are looking way too childish too.

I prefer HS or straight 2D art in general. There is also games like Mist which are a breath of fresh air and i have no clue what is being used in this case.

To be honest, i didn't play games like Being a DIK, summer's gone, Projekt passion because I don't like the visuals.

Also most of the animations feels also off, kinda stiff (on Daz).
I mean Eternum animations past 0.4 are legit out of this world.
I still didn't see better animations but again I actually didn't play most of top rated games on this site.

Projekt: Passion uses HS2

 

[jvbatman]

Projekt: Passion uses HS2

He started using Blender and the animations in that game are really next level now.

 

[maria.wachtel]

The girls in DAZ just always look like awful bimbo barbies treading the uncanny valley. I much prefer the more anime style of HS2 or Koikatsu. Also why do people care so much if a dev posts a game on steam?

DAZ Renders really do have a very distinct look, and imho what Cardi is doing with HS2 looks better than 99.9% of any DAZ Artwork I have seen here on F95. I really hope he doesn't switch to DAZ.

 

[Finuee]

Someone posted a really great lore recap on reddit, I think it's worth sharing it here as well :

The Syndicate - We first are introduced to the Syndicate in the Red Herring, when a member tells Orion, Luna, and Annie where to go and lift the curse that leads to them acquiring a Gem of Doom. The Syndicate also gives Orion a letter before the heist mission, which he is told not to open, but that he needed to receive it now because they had tried before. If you do open the letter, it reads "askion kataskion lix tetrax damnameneus aision," which are Greek magical words that proteect those who speak them, (look at the wikipedia page for the Ephesia Grammata for more info). We know from Mr. Mos that Ulysses is aware of the Syndicate, but we don't get much more than that. We are also told that the Syndicate's goal is to help players get the Gems of Doom, but based on the dialogue from the girl who hands Orion the letter, I believe that their goal seems to be to help specifically Orion get all of the Gems and Doom, a task that they have tried and failed already. This leaves the question of whether the Syndicate's members are players or NPCs, as there is some evidence that Idriel is tied to the Syndicate in some way, as the way she speaks is very similar to its members that we do meet.

The Immortals - We know from Bardot that the Immortals were a group who were able to access Eternum at will. Calypso claims that the Immortals imprisoned her long ago, and suppressed her magical abilities. Perhaps the most important question is what happened to them, or if they still exist. We know that the Founder is most likely an Immortal, and I think that Orion is an Immortal, which I theorize is what 100% compatibility marks.

Eternum - It is not a game, but rather completely alternate worlds. Somehow, the Founder was able to use the neural implant to create the inventory system, exit portals, levels, and more through what William Bardot assumes is coding.

The Founder - We have very little to go off of on him. We know that most of the higher-ups at Ulysses haven't even met him, and that he is trying to accelerate the process of players gathering the Gems. Upon meeting him, voices ring through Orion's head telling him not to trust him. The Founder claims to have offered the Amulet of Blair - a one time resurrection item - to everyone who has gotten a Gem of Doom, which will somehow have consequences for accepting (according to the walkthrough). We are told by William Bardot that the Founder is an Immortal, and that he discovered Eternum, and gamified it through his advanced coding skills.

Calypso - It's difficult to untangle what is going on with her, as we have a lot of backstory, but we do not know how it ties in with the rest of what we know. Her ancestry goes back tens of thousands of years to Anima the Radiant, who we are told also had the power to travel between worlds or "servers," and had powers akin to a God. Calypso also tells us that the Immortals had imprisoned her. Unfortunately, we do not know exactly how long ago this was, and we have no idea why she was imprisoned? Was it the Founder who imprisoned her? I have no theories for this one, so it'd be interesting to hear what you all have to say.

NPCs - NPCs are people who have died but remained living through Eternum. Bardot tells us that while most NPCs are simply puppets of the Founder, some, like Thanatos, live their lives outside the control of the Founder without knowing that they have died. We also know that there is a device that can allow players to take control of the NPCs, as shown in Blackridge. The device looks exactly like the box that contained Calypso, which leads me to believe that it is made from the technology the Founder uses to control the NPCs

Compatibility - Orion describes his experiences in Eternum as him being able to learn new things extremely quickly. It seems that the more compatible you are, the more quickly you adapt to the world of Eternum. It also seems however that high compatibility leads to more "bleeding cases," based on how often Orion has accidently entered Eternum when he's been playing for such a short time.

Idriel's Heads or Tails - It seems to me that we don't have enough information to fully understand what she is getting at with this. The way I read it is that she is trying to signal to Orion that he has the power to control what happens in Eternum and alter fate, (I'd have to imagine that the coin flip in Hollowbrook is tied to this in some way).

Link to the original Reddit comment :

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This is gold. Thanks mate!

 

[Finuee]

DAZ is more of a realistic design with more defined features but also seems fake idk, it looks weird to me for some reason. While you can make something similiar in HS2, it always retain a certain grade of cartoonish/anime style to its models, but not too much, which I prefer. Koikatsu is too anime like for me tho...

I think it's basically the

You must be registered to see the links

effect. Daz being more photorealistic treads closer to reality, so you judge it more by real-life standards, and a lot of what's done with it is not close enough to pass those standards. HS on the other hand, as you said, looks more cartoonish, so your mind doesn't judge it by those same standards, and it looks fine.

 

[Dorfnutter]

Someone posted a really great lore recap on reddit, I think it's worth sharing it here as well :

The Syndicate - We first are introduced to the Syndicate in the Red Herring, when a member tells Orion, Luna, and Annie where to go and lift the curse that leads to them acquiring a Gem of Doom. The Syndicate also gives Orion a letter before the heist mission, which he is told not to open, but that he needed to receive it now because they had tried before. If you do open the letter, it reads "askion kataskion lix tetrax damnameneus aision," which are Greek magical words that proteect those who speak them, (look at the wikipedia page for the Ephesia Grammata for more info). We know from Mr. Mos that Ulysses is aware of the Syndicate, but we don't get much more than that. We are also told that the Syndicate's goal is to help players get the Gems of Doom, but based on the dialogue from the girl who hands Orion the letter, I believe that their goal seems to be to help specifically Orion get all of the Gems and Doom, a task that they have tried and failed already. This leaves the question of whether the Syndicate's members are players or NPCs, as there is some evidence that Idriel is tied to the Syndicate in some way, as the way she speaks is very similar to its members that we do meet.

The Immortals - We know from Bardot that the Immortals were a group who were able to access Eternum at will. Calypso claims that the Immortals imprisoned her long ago, and suppressed her magical abilities. Perhaps the most important question is what happened to them, or if they still exist. We know that the Founder is most likely an Immortal, and I think that Orion is an Immortal, which I theorize is what 100% compatibility marks.

Eternum - It is not a game, but rather completely alternate worlds. Somehow, the Founder was able to use the neural implant to create the inventory system, exit portals, levels, and more through what William Bardot assumes is coding.

The Founder - We have very little to go off of on him. We know that most of the higher-ups at Ulysses haven't even met him, and that he is trying to accelerate the process of players gathering the Gems. Upon meeting him, voices ring through Orion's head telling him not to trust him. The Founder claims to have offered the Amulet of Blair - a one time resurrection item - to everyone who has gotten a Gem of Doom, which will somehow have consequences for accepting (according to the walkthrough). We are told by William Bardot that the Founder is an Immortal, and that he discovered Eternum, and gamified it through his advanced coding skills.

Calypso - It's difficult to untangle what is going on with her, as we have a lot of backstory, but we do not know how it ties in with the rest of what we know. Her ancestry goes back tens of thousands of years to Anima the Radiant, who we are told also had the power to travel between worlds or "servers," and had powers akin to a God. Calypso also tells us that the Immortals had imprisoned her. Unfortunately, we do not know exactly how long ago this was, and we have no idea why she was imprisoned? Was it the Founder who imprisoned her? I have no theories for this one, so it'd be interesting to hear what you all have to say.

NPCs - NPCs are people who have died but remained living through Eternum. Bardot tells us that while most NPCs are simply puppets of the Founder, some, like Thanatos, live their lives outside the control of the Founder without knowing that they have died. We also know that there is a device that can allow players to take control of the NPCs, as shown in Blackridge. The device looks exactly like the box that contained Calypso, which leads me to believe that it is made from the technology the Founder uses to control the NPCs

Compatibility - Orion describes his experiences in Eternum as him being able to learn new things extremely quickly. It seems that the more compatible you are, the more quickly you adapt to the world of Eternum. It also seems however that high compatibility leads to more "bleeding cases," based on how often Orion has accidently entered Eternum when he's been playing for such a short time.

Idriel's Heads or Tails - It seems to me that we don't have enough information to fully understand what she is getting at with this. The way I read it is that she is trying to signal to Orion that he has the power to control what happens in Eternum and alter fate, (I'd have to imagine that the coin flip in Hollowbrook is tied to this in some way).

Link to the original Reddit comment :

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Reposting some stuff I've said in that thread:

Re: Eternum - Everything about it basically screams Astral Plane or the Cariverse version of it, from how you actually access it ((projection/out-of-body experience induced via the old-fashioned way (dreams, hallucinogenic substances, near-death experiences) or the Ulysses way (nerve implant, which likely just induces the body to go to a deep sleep and thus triggering OOB is always 100%)) to the fact that the dead themselves exist within it and to William's infodump stating that some people mistake it for the afterlife (which it isn't, as it's simply a plane of existence that the dead pass through on their way to the afterlife...or at least, that's SUPPOSED to be how it goes, but obviously something has gone horribly wrong with the order of things for them to be trapped there for a very long while).

Re: The Founder and the NPCs - Just a theory, but if we believe William's claims about the dead then it's possible that the state of Eternum - that being a plane where the dead are trapped rather than the pathway that the dead pass through as intended - has already been that way long before the Founder even entered the picture. Otherwise the idea of the dead being "drawn from the pages of history" wouldn't hold if the closing of the Gates of Acheron (which is likely the incident that led to the dead being trapped in Eternum) was fairly recent. Unless of course you argue that the Founder is older than we assume him to be...which would be weird considering that William claims him to be "just a man" whose overall goal is godhood and yet he already does godlike things, which would be contradictory.

"But he chained Idriel, so it's likely that he's powerful enough to disrupt the natural order and enslave the dead." Well, do we know that he did that? Because it could also be the case that Idriel was already chained before the Founder came into the picture, and is simply being exploited thanks to her current state. In fact, that's probably why Ulysses managed to set up fast enough, as the harder stuff (the dead in stasis and can be exploited as NPCs, Idriel imprisoned and can be exploited for her mass teleportation abilities via the Nexus) have already been handed to them on a silver platter. It's also basically a double-edged sword as they have limited understanding of what the worlds (and denizens) of Eternum are actually capable of, which is obvious considering their difficulty in containing the Xeno outbreak and stomping out the Syndicate...and (likely) not being aware that the person in charge of ferrying players across the various worlds is actively working against them.

 

[Finuee]

Reposting some stuff I've said in that thread:

Re: Eternum - Everything about it basically screams Astral Plane or the Cariverse version of it, from how you actually access it ((projection/out-of-body experience induced via the old-fashioned way (dreams, hallucinogenic substances, near-death experiences) or the Ulysses way (nerve implant, which likely just induces the body to go to a deep sleep and thus triggering OOB is always 100%)) to the fact that the dead themselves exist within it and to William's infodump stating that some people mistake it for the afterlife (which it isn't, as it's simply a plane of existence that the dead pass through on their way to the afterlife...or at least, that's SUPPOSED to be how it goes, but obviously something has gone horribly wrong with the order of things for them to be trapped there for a very long while).

Re: The Founder and the NPCs - Just a theory, but if we believe William's claims about the dead then it's possible that the state of Eternum - that being a plane where the dead are trapped rather than the pathway that the dead pass through as intended - has already been that way long before the Founder even entered the picture. Otherwise the idea of the dead being "drawn from the pages of history" wouldn't hold if the closing of the Gates of Acheron (which is likely the incident that led to the dead being trapped in Eternum) was fairly recent. Unless of course you argue that the Founder is older than we assume him to be...which would be weird considering that William claims him to be "just a man" whose overall goal is godhood and yet he already does godlike things, which would be contradictory.

"But he chained Idriel, so it's likely that he's powerful enough to disrupt the natural order and enslave the dead." Well, do we know that he did that? Because it could also be the case that Idriel was already chained before the Founder came into the picture, and is simply being exploited thanks to her current state. In fact, that's probably why Ulysses managed to set up fast enough, as the harder stuff (the dead in stasis and can be exploited as NPCs, Idriel imprisoned and can be exploited for her mass teleportation abilities via the Nexus) have already been handed to them on a silver platter. It's also basically a double-edged sword as they have limited understanding of what the worlds (and denizens) of Eternum are actually capable of, which is obvious considering their difficulty in containing the Xeno outbreak and stomping out the Syndicate...and (likely) not being aware that the person in charge of ferrying players across the various worlds is actively working against them.

Also golden.