VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.8.6 Public] [Caribdis]

[talion777]

'All of the sudden?'

Have you forgotten the time skips that happen throughout the game and the likelihood that we don't see all of Orion's (MC's) interactions with the girls, particularly the ones that are likely happening during said skips?

View attachment 2346711

Like in 0.3 where a skip happens between the Ogygia sequence and Orion hanging out in the park, to which it's revealed in a convo with Alex and Dalia that he's been training his powers with the latter during the skip?

Or are you saying that we should see ALL of his interactions with the girls without cuts, regardless of how mundane it is? Just so we could see a "proper" relationship build between Orion and the girls? All while having the plot grind to a crawl in order to service that, like what other games accused of milking their fans are doing?

Well newsflash: dev already did that with OIAL, his past game. And you know what happened in that game? 4 LI's...only 4 LI's out of the 7 had a proper relationship build up because he spent way too much time with mundane shit with them, stuff that could've been cut and used to have much needed moments with the other LI's. And while he's doing that, the plot pacing also suffered. Hell, the story proper didn't even get some steam until 0.5 when a major character had to join the cast just to get the ball rolling. THAT'S how slow the game's first four updates were from a plot and LI development perspective.

And you want the dev to go back to that? Now that he's basically giving each LI a proper shine in the spotlight, both in development and plot? Just because you think that their development isn't "organic" enough?

Screw. That.

Yes, I believe that anything that happens offscreen in this type of environment is irrelevant and/or didn't happen. I also couldn't possibly care less what happened in a previous game because each and every game should be self contained and players/readers (whatever you'd like to call them) shouldn't be required to have specialized knowledge or experience in other games in order to enjoy this one. The NLT games are a good example of this.

So yes, newsflash, he is not giving each LI a proper chance to shine in the spotlight as it were. I feel that the relationships in some cases were underdeveloped prior to leading into lewd scenes. For me that takes the shine off the apple. If it doesn't matter to you then that's fine. To each their own. Do I want the dev to go back to the pacing of the chapters up to 0.4? Absofucking-lutely. The first four chapters were great. I don't equate more lewds=better game. I like sex as an element of the experience but for fucks sakes sex is everywhere. If you're in a hurry to watch any random girl boning any random guy then pornhub is just a click away and go to it. Real people too. This is supposed to be a story. If the story's not compelling then what's the point? I'm not going to get mindlessly excited about a cartoon girl no matter who they are. I want something compelling, not just something titillating.

And if that's what the story is going to turn into, basically mindless fucking of the LIs, which happens in so many games, then it would be a loss for everyone. Screw. That. (to quote a famous internet personality)

Now, to be perfectly clear again for the peanut gallery and the religious fanboys who will take any criticism as sacrilege, I'm enjoying this game thus far, intend to continue playing, and still believe that overall the quality of this game is superior to that of most of the AVNs out there, with mountains of potential to be even better going forward, but I'm not bowing down to the altar, as it were, and if everyone including the dev is too thin-skinned to accept or at least consider what I consider to be fairly minor criticism then screw that too.

 

[Son of Durin]

Mixed feelings about the update. On the one hand, as someone who really likes the story in this game, I was a little disappointed that we didn’t see any kind of plot development, on the other hand, the focus in this update was precisely on the development of relations between the characters and I liked Luna's path. So, overall it was good. I hope in the next update the focus will shift back to the main story.

No plot development?

You mustn't have been paying attention. MC is known to The Founder and is, in a way, being encouraged by him; MC is connected to the game in ways others aren't - those flashes with Calypso and Idriel have meaning; original owners of the gems have been revealed; a tool for potentially obtaining the gems and other items has been created; Nova now has a kick-ass new bit of tech that will propel her already great skills into new realms; and we have a clue as to who and WHAT Thanatos may be, as well as insight into what may truly be going on with NPCs - the flashback near the end starting to connect little bits of data into a bigger picture. Was anything resolved or was there a gem heist? No. But we learned quite a bit about plot elements and how actions will advance.

Plot development isn't just action and achieving a goal; plot development is also revelation, new developments, finding threads to follow, establishing new quests. There was quite a bit of plot development in this release. Plus, there will soon be t-shirts!

 

[Dorfnutter]

Yes, I believe that anything that happens offscreen in this type of environment is irrelevant and/or didn't happen. I also couldn't possibly care less what happened in a previous game because each and every game should be self contained and players/readers (whatever you'd like to call them) shouldn't be required to have specialized knowledge or experience in other games in order to enjoy this one. The NLT games are a good example of this.

Read. What. I. Said.

I didn't say you need specialized knowledge from the previous game in order to enjoy the new one. I said that the dev's past game had writing shortcomings (that being not giving the girls equal time in the spotlight and LI events slowing main plot progress and feeling too mundane even though they're intimate enough) that he is actively rectifying in this game, but is something you want to go back to. Stop making him regress back to his OIAL style of writing, he's already moved past that.

So yes, newsflash, he is not giving each LI a proper chance to shine in the spotlight as it were. I feel that the relationships in some cases were underdeveloped prior to leading into lewd scenes. For me that takes the shine off the apple. If it doesn't matter to you then that's fine. To each their own. Do I want the dev to go back to the pacing of the chapters up to 0.4? Absofucking-lutely. The first four chapters were great. I don't equate more lewds=better game. I like sex as an element of the experience but for fucks sakes sex is everywhere. If you're in a hurry to watch any random girl boning any random guy then pornhub is just a click away and go to it. Real people too. This is supposed to be a story. If the story's not compelling then what's the point? I'm not going to get mindlessly excited about a cartoon girl no matter who they are. I want something compelling, not just something titillating.

What you see as a weakness, a majority in this thread sees as a strength or are fine with it. This is not BaDIK or the first Grisaia VN (have not played the others don't @ me). This is a plot-first VN where the main story's pacing dictates the pacing of relationship development, not the other way around. And the plot is fast-paced in case you didn't notice (so fast paced that not even this supposedly "filler" episode is given time to breath because dev goes straight to everyone's jugular by dropping that bombshell of an ending that sets the tone for the next chapter to follow). This is not the dev's past game where progress of the main plot is artificially ground to a snail's pace just to focus on MC's relationship building with 4 of the 7 main LI's through mundane events that could've been streamlined so that the other 3 LI's could've been introduced early or have their development not be gimped as they were (hence this game's use of time skips and skipping through the little things that likely contributed to the relationship development between MC and the girls - stuff that you claim as 'irrelevant' - because again, the plot has the bigger spotlight).

So yes, the game is going to focus on the damn highlights of the relationship instead of taking its sweet time (though some folk in this thread think otherwise) whether you like it or not because the plot is the focus (hence why lore drops and stuff that move the story forward happen even during LI events) and the plot has no damn brakes. Oh, you thought the plot slammed on the brakes during this update? Well the meeting with the Founder, the bleeding effect event, the revelation that Axel has been MIA in the real world since the Ulysses party, the vision with Idriel at the party, the Nancy infiltration event, and that bombshell about Thanatos and the NPCs in the end says otherwise.

 

[Lilybelle]

In response to all plot comments: what really even constitutes plot?

Personally, I thought Carolyn's plot development was riveting:

Spoiler: What we thought

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Spoiler: The plot twist

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[talion777]

Read. What. I. Said.

I didn't say you need specialized knowledge from the previous game in order to enjoy the new one. I said that the dev's past game had writing shortcomings (that being not giving the girls equal time in the spotlight and LI events slowing main plot progress and feeling too mundane even though they're intimate enough) that he is actively rectifying in this game, but is something you want to go back to. Stop making him regress back to his OIAL style of writing, he's already moved past that.



What you see as a weakness, a majority in this thread sees as a strength or are fine with it. This is not BaDIK or the first Grisaia VN (have not played the others don't @ me). This is a plot-first VN where the main story's pacing dictates the pacing of relationship development, not the other way around. And the plot is fast-paced in case you didn't notice (so fast paced that not even this supposedly "filler" episode is given time to breath because dev goes straight to everyone's jugular by dropping that bombshell of an ending that sets the tone for the next chapter to follow). This is not the dev's past game where progress of the main plot is artificially ground to a snail's pace just to focus on MC's relationship building with 4 of the 7 main LI's through mundane events that could've been streamlined so that the other 3 LI's could've been introduced early or have their development not be gimped as they were (hence this game's use of time skips and skipping through the little things that likely contributed to the relationship development between MC and the girls - stuff that you claim as 'irrelevant' - because again, the plot has the bigger spotlight).

So yes, the game is going to focus on the damn highlights of the relationship instead of taking its sweet time (though some folk in this thread think otherwise) whether you like it or not because the plot is the focus (hence why lore drops and stuff that move the story forward happen even during LI events) and the plot has no damn brakes. Oh, you thought the plot slammed on the brakes during this update? Well the meeting with the Founder, the bleeding effect event, the revelation that Axel has been MIA in the real world since the Ulysses party, the vision with Idriel at the party, the Nancy infiltration event, and that bombshell about Thanatos and the NPCs in the end says otherwise.

Yep. I see it as a weakness. I don't really care what anybody else sees it as. Chapter 5 was not a "plot first" episode and that's pretty much that as far as I'm concerned. There was a very unbalanced approach to lewd scenes that was the primary focus of the chapter, full stop, end of story. It absolutely was not as story driven as the first 4 chapters and anyone who thinks otherwise is going to have to prove it to me with diagrams and a bunch of red circles and arrows explaining why in order to convince me. You can agree or not, I don't care. I'm interested in my experience with this game and not yours. I also know that many people are either onboard or wildly enthusiastic about this approach, and some would be happy with just a continuous scene of animated bangings. That's fine, and to each their own. Does it have to take forever to build relationships, no, but would some credibility be nice? yes. Stopping not once but twice in the middle of a robbery and/or assault to have sex is stupid. It strains my credibility more than WWE wrestling. The massage dialogue was cringe. The BJ in the bushes scene made sense to you? In what world and in what context? Was the chapter devoid of story? Of course not. Now, again (for the second or third time now?) I keep stating that the core story is interesting even if the plot isn't an original idea, because thus far it has been well executed and that has made the whole thing enjoyable . It's the tangents that introduce the lewd scenes that were moronic in this particular chapter. I make a very clear distinction between the two and that's what I've been talking about this whole time. Don't even get me started on the whole Alien thing. The point I'm making is that the gratuitous silliness of the linkages necessary to make the lewd scenes possible is detracting from the core aspects of the story and affecting the overall storytelling. They should be both flowing flowing together and more or less in parallel, not at odd angles to each other. That's it. Nothing else.

 

[Dorfnutter]

To be honest, I did not really notice it that badly with Once in a Lifetime, IMO this is a masterpiece as well. Granted, I only started with OIAL with 0.8, so close to the end.

It was particularly bad during the chapters before Asmodeus showed up.

-0.1 was fine if you look at it as only an introductory chapter, but had you not read the synopsis and reached the latter part of the chapter I wouldn't blame you if you thought the overall game was another "guy-with-failing-grades-mans-up-and-bangs-his-family-and-the-entire-school" style VN with nothing else going for it

-With the exception of the first part of the update where MC and Judie rummage through the basement to look for the plot, 0.2 was mostly just a relationship-building event with a pointless finale (the dream? the creature MC encountered there? never showed up in the story ever again unless you count the drug-induced dream later on in the story as a follow-up to that)

-0.3 was the only update where the plot felt like it moved forward

-0.4 was again mostly relationship building. But hey, we get our first vaginal scene! I was like "Yaaaaay...

...when is the plot coming back? And no, the revelation that Jasmine's dad is one of the Sons isn't enough."

So by the time 0.5 rolled in I was like "FINALLY. PLOT. ANSWERS."

In response to all plot comments: what really even constitutes plot?

Personally, I thought Carolyn's plot development was riveting:

Spoiler: What we thought

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Spoiler: The plot twist

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You joke about this,

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And with the implication made by seniorboop regarding Orion's fingernails growing darker and deader and the fact that Carolyn used to hiss at him at the beginning of the game...

...really makes you think.

 

[Dorfnutter]

...

...Were you supposed to make a rebuttal? Because you quoted my post and nothing else is showing save for that.

 

[Lebeaubrun]

Cant find regina in the locker room after she propose to fuck? will he at least patch it in later?

 

[talion777]

...Were you supposed to make a rebuttal? Because you quoted my post and nothing else is showing save for that.

Yes, there was a response. For whatever reason I got thrown into editing mode and didn't notice it right away so it put the quoted response as my response without actually incorporating the stuff I wrote. I dunno. it's there now. Gremlins.

 

[RandyPhoenix]

While it was hot I'm kind of disappointed with

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So this is how things are now? Losing virginity biologically means nothing? Did virginity lose meaning while I'm not looking at it? I feel like I'm the only weird one here while nobody saying anything about that scene being contradictory and making no sense...

 

[Son of Durin]

While it was hot I'm kind of disappointed with

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So this is how things are now? Losing virginity biologically means nothing? Did virginity lose meaning while I'm not looking at it? I feel like I'm the only weird one here while nobody saying anything about that scene being contradictory and making no sense...

Virgins can't use toys?

What you're saying seems to be contradictory.

 

[RandyPhoenix]

Virgins can't use toys?

What you're saying seems to be contradictory.

I don't remember saying anything about virgins can't use toys? Virgins can use toys but after using it you are no more virgin I told biologicaly using toy or finger and tearing your hymen means you lost your virginity. Virginity is nothing more than your hymen getting teared off, toys or your fingers can do that and that means you lost your virginity, end of story. I'm not saying anything about being virgin or not or not trying to shame anyone or praise virginity etc. Just saying biologicaly that's what is and that scene feels contradictory AF because of that, she is not a virgin, according to her she used toys and her fingers and considering there was no blood while using that big dildo in scene she wasn't virgin in that point.

 

[Dogorti]

Virgins can't use toys?

What you're saying seems to be contradictory.

Nah, it is clear that women cannot masturbate and feel pleasure from a plastic toy (?

I guess for this guy putting your dick in a pie counts as losing your virginity

 

[RandyPhoenix]

Nah, it is clear that women cannot masturbate and feel pleasure from a plastic toy (?

I guess for this guy putting your dick in a pie counts as losing your virginity

Topic was about female virginity (AKA about Nova), so I don't get it why you are talking about male virginity, something I'm not even sure exist, some people might say it exist tho but I'm not sure about it being exist or why you guys trying to change subject with saying things I don't even told Either way I laugh your comment, it was funny

 

[Phase_01]

I don't remember saying anything about virgins can't use toys? Virgins can use toys but after using it you are no more virgin I told biologicaly using toy or finger and tearing your hymen means you lost your virginity. Virginity is nothing more than your hymen getting teared off, toys or your fingers can do that and that means you lost your virginity, end of story. I'm not saying anything about being virgin or not or not trying to shame anyone or praise virginity etc. Just saying biologicaly that's what is and that scene feels contradictory AF because of that, she is not a virgin, according to her she used toys and her fingers and considering there was no blood while using that big dildo in scene she wasn't virgin in that point.

Honestly the whole concept of virginity is stupid but I won't get into that.

What I will say is though, is there's two types of virginity, biological and societal. Societal is only related to if you've had sex.
Girls can lose their hymen from just doing athletic activities, like sports, horse-riding, etc. They are still societal virgins, but biologically not, but this doesn't really matter tbh (neither does societal IMO but that's a matter of opinion and other personal belief factors) This of course includes toys.


From a societal standpoint, they didn't lose their virginity to a horse (I'd hope not but if that's their kink then good for them )

 

[Dorfnutter]

The massage dialogue was cringe.

And so was the dialogue with Annie while trying to convince her to get naked which led to the thighjob. And the dialogue with Dalia in the private server. And his dialogue with Penny prior to her scene. And trying to convince Nova that they masturbate while facing one another.

Orion is characterized as a horndog right from the start (see: the train scene in the very beginning where Orion stated to Chang that his goal during his stay is to "have fun" during his stay in Kredon). Of course his Rance-tier dialogue is going to reflect that (though to be fair on Orion at least canonically he doesn't try and brute force himself on his LI's). If you don't like it then to each their own.

The BJ in the bushes scene made sense to you? In what world and in what context?

Considering that Alex has been built up from the start as a girl who does shit to piss off her living family while living her own life and that giving a handjob and a blowjob to a guy she fancies while her dad is on the other side of the bushes is essentially giving a giant middle finger to the latter?

...Yeah, I say it makes sense in that context.

Don't even get me started on the whole Alien thing.

The Alien thing? You mean the sequence that heavily implied that people can access Eternum via dreams long before the MMO and the neural implants were a thing? The event that foreshadowed Orion's 'bleeding effect/case' scenes in this update? The sequence that also implies that the Aliens are natives of Eternum (specifically the Andromeda "server") and that the creators of the movie franchise encountered them during what was likely a 'bleeding case' even before the term was even a thing? What about it?

The point I'm making is that the gratuitous silliness of the linkages necessary to make the lewd scenes possible is detracting from the core aspects of the story and affecting the overall storytelling. They should be both flowing flowing together and more or less in parallel, not at odd angles to each other.

And I'm saying that to do that the dev will have to overhaul his current storytelling process and go back to writing in the style of OIAL where development focused more on 4 of the 7 LI's which resulted in their relationship with the MC being the most developed. To do that kind of style and then work evenly on 7 main LI's and one possible main LI that's not getting any LI development because it's a potential plot twist waiting to happen would just slow down a main story that's currently being paced fine as your posts are implying (until - in your own opinion - 0.5 slammed the breaks).

Had the dev chose to detach the LI development (to give them time to breathe) from the main story and made their romantic development optional then maybe - MAYBE - you could get what you want. But since the dev opted to have their development move in tandem to the main plot's speed, then unless the dev slows story progress significantly (more so than what you are criticizing 0.5's story progress speed to be, the kind of speed where we don't see significant story progress for 2-3 updates) to focus more time in LI development then that's that.

 

[Son of Durin]

I don't remember saying anything about virgins can't use toys? Virgins can use toys but after using it you are no more virgin I told biologicaly using toy or finger and tearing your hymen means you lost your virginity. Virginity is nothing more than your hymen getting teared off, toys or your fingers can do that and that means you lost your virginity, end of story. I'm not saying anything about being virgin or not or not trying to shame anyone or praise virginity etc. Just saying biologicaly that's what is and that scene feels contradictory AF because of that, she is not a virgin, according to her she used toys and her fingers and considering there was no blood while using that big dildo in scene she wasn't virgin in that point.

Bless your heart! You don't understand the definition of "virginity".

No physical intercourse with another human, no loss of virginity. It isn't about the hymen - those can break from all manner of non-sexual activity. Or do you believe a woman loses her virginity the first time she uses a tampon? Or realizes that riding her bicycle can feel really good and keeps rubbing until she orgasms for the first time?

I'm not sure what educational system you grew up in, but it failed you miserably. Either that, or you lacked the IQ to understand it.

 

[Son of Durin]

Topic was about female virginity (AKA about Nova), so I don't get it why you are talking about male virginity, something I'm not even sure exist, some people might say it exist tho but I'm not sure about it being exist or why you guys trying to change subject with saying things I don't even told Either way I laugh your comment, it was funny

Male virginity doesn't exist?

Is this the excuse you use when folks tell you you're a virgin because no woman has allowed you to even touch her, much less have sex with her?

 

[RandyPhoenix]

Male virginity doesn't exist?

Is this the excuse you use when folks tell you you're a virgin because no woman has allowed you to even touch her, much less have sex with her?

Like other person explained I actualy think two virginity, one of them is oldest and ''real'' one based on female virginity and hymen and blood etc. You might say it's nonsense and stuff but it's a fact, like it or not it's something existed since (I don't know since lol and I don't care but I know it's existed for thousands of years). This was the one I meant because in that scene the guy (Was it Akira-san? Anyways.) talked about ''deflowering'' and it means guy tearing girls hymen and blood etc, classic stuff you know. Whole scene was leading that kind of thing, so learning she is actualy and biologicaly not virgin was nonsense.

And there is second meaning, societal one and male virginity I gues comes here because... Males don't have hymen or anything in their penis... So it's most likely something societal and biologicaly not existed.

And again you guys are saying things I didn't told, this is literaly talk about virginity not about excuses males use etc. I feel like you are being passive agressive about something not even about you or any real person, it's just talk about subject, not sure why you guys keep trying to change subject to way you can accuse me for something dumb... I gues it's hard answering like Phase_01 ? She/he (not sure about gender) understanded what I was talking about and she/he was quite logical with her/his answer, but yeah being mature is quite hard in these days, sadly...

 

[Son of Durin]

Like other person explained I actualy think two virginity, one of them is oldest and ''real'' one based on female virginity and hymen and blood etc. You might say it's nonsense and stuff but it's a fact, like it or not it's something existed since (I don't know since lol and I don't care but I know it's existed for thousands of years). This was the one I meant because in that scene the guy (Was it Akira-san? Anyways.) talked about ''deflowering'' and it means guy tearing girls hymen and blood etc, classic stuff you know. Whole scene was leading that kind of thing, so learning she is actualy and biologicaly not virgin was nonsense.

And there is second meaning, societal one and male virginity I gues comes here because... Males don't have hymen or anything in their penis... So it's most likely something societal and biologicaly not existed.

And again you guys are saying things I didn't told, this is literaly talk about virginity not about excuses males use etc. I feel like you are being passive agressive about something not even about you or any real person, it's just talk about subject, not sure why you guys keep trying to change subject to way you can accuse me for something dumb... I gues it's hard answering like Phase_01 ? She/he (not sure about gender) understanded what I was talking about and she/he was quite logical with her/his answer, but yeah being mature is quite hard in these days, sadly...

I guess you simply lack the intellectual capacity to understand the concept. I pity those that have to deal with you IRL. Adios.

Edit: A facepalm from someone that doesn't understand virginity is a badge of honor.