VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.8.6 Public] [Caribdis]

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e6mill

e6mill

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Wasn't it Regina (not Charlotte) who was the complete, yearbook stealing biotch?
Why all the hate for Charlotte? Seems like Gertrude would be a worse choice... :giggle:
 
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Jormund

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Takkatakka said:
I get your point, but that is just not how the game is structured. The game is designed around one "true" path (happy harem, at least as far as we know) and you can either deliberately or accidentally stray from that path and lose one or more of the girls so to speak.

Now that has the disadvantage, that the game will likely - as you already said - have little replay value outside of "I deliberately want to see the bad ending". It doesn't have separate Luna, Nova, Annie etc. paths, like you see with the LI paths in BiDIK.

But on the flip side this also allows Caribdis to tell a more coherent and detailed story, because he only has to focus on one main branch. It also keeps developing times shorter and you generally have tons of content in every update for every player instead of players having to either skip a bunch from every update or you have to design every patch in such a way, that there are hardly differences between the paths, beating the point of even having them to begin with.
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As I said just sharing some thoughts, I couldn't say if this is in fact the dev's thinking, and in fact it should be much faster and uncomplicates a lot of things, in addition to having a main story with only one consistent ending I believe, Just in fact sharing this thought because of the weightlessness of the choices, which are more just because of the "risk of losing something" than actually feeling that it brings impact, and I like the choices because it brings a sense that you have some control, and weight.

Just thinking about it...since in theory it couldn't make a difference since there's only one way, leaving only replay by bad ends. Still, I wouldn't take it out since it would take a lot out of my experience. but the lack of agency in decisions is a little annoying, since it does not have any impact and it is only a matter of choosing the right one.

idk enjoyed the game so far anyway, waiting to see more of Dalia.:love:
 
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Jormund

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VaderExMachina said:
That's what i like about Caribdis's games, most who start a new AVN automatically go for the "all girls at once" route before deciding on a main LI, and most other AVNs punish the player for doing so, locking paths or having the girl dumping the MC, in the end resulting on the player getting a "alone path".
With OIAL and Eternum, one can go for all LIs at once and get a happy ending where all girls like the MC, which leaves individual paths as optional.
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ell I like to contribute for everyone to have their happy end without a doubt and it's good anyway everyone can have a unique individual experience with Caribdis's games. I don't know if this possibility of a bad end because you feel like you're losing something impacts so much since it only contributes to that Playthrough, and allows you to explore for more or even get the harem ending avoiding frustrations.
 
Dorfnutter

Dorfnutter

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blue_vaito said:
As I said just sharing some thoughts, I couldn't say if this is in fact the dev's thinking, and in fact it should be much faster and uncomplicates a lot of things, in addition to having a main story with only one consistent ending I believe, Just in fact sharing this thought because of the weightlessness of the choices, which are more just because of the "risk of losing something" than actually feeling that it brings impact, and I like the choices because it brings a sense that you have some control, and weight.

Just thinking about it...since in theory it couldn't make a difference since there's only one way, leaving only replay by bad ends. Still, I wouldn't take it out since it would take a lot out of my experience. but the lack of agency in decisions is a little annoying, since it does not have any impact and it is only a matter of choosing the right one.

idk enjoyed the game so far anyway, waiting to see more of Dalia.:love:
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blue_vaito said:
ell I like to contribute for everyone to have their happy end without a doubt and it's good anyway everyone can have a unique individual experience with Caribdis's games. I don't know if this possibility of a bad end because you feel like you're losing something impacts so much since it only contributes to that Playthrough, and allows you to explore for more or even get the harem ending avoiding frustrations.
Click to expand...
The "one route is the true route" hearkens back to the old-school way of writing VNs and was present in most eroges that aren't your average "school setting with more than a dozen love interests or so and no actual plot except getting laid." Branching paths are pretty rare, with some only "branching" after you've done one route, with the rest being treated as unlocks that pad the VN's overall runtime (e.g. Fate/Stay Night's and Full metal Daemon Muramasa's route structure).

The trouble with branching paths IMO is that for a story that basically spans multiple hours of reading and watching cutscenes play out, having branching paths only adds a lot to the dev time required to make said paths feel "meaningful." It's why AVNs like BaDIK basically take a year per update with only an hour or so of gameplay per route (mayhaps even shorter) because the dev has to take into account the multiple routes that exist in that game as well as the "other stuff" that he likes to add because of personal preference...

/eyetwitches at he remembers DPC's unrestrained fetish for adding minigames to his work

...anyhow, the thing with Cari is that he obviously has a story to tell and he wants to tell that with the idea that all members of the harem have something to contribute to the plot and not just act as love interests that the protagonist can choose to screw. With OIAL he had only succeeded in pulling this off with Lauren and Judie, with certain members of the harem having some contribution to the plot but ultimately fell off when they basically served their purpose...and with some not even contributing anything at all and their inclusion is just because they happen to exist (i.e. Jasmine, Iris).

So with Eternum Cari is basically rectifying this issue by making all of the harem members contribute to the plot for the long haul and that itself is a double-edged sword as you have seen, because if you DON'T play it as intended by the dev you're basically locking yourself out on huge chunks of the narrative by going with a one-girl route as each of the girl's route has some contribution to the overall plot. This isn't like in most modern AVNs where branching paths or choices actually matter. On the other hand, doing it this way allows Cari to basically write meatier updates while balancing everyone's desire for lewds by making at least half of the girls have some scenes per update (and this will increase as time goes on, especially once we start hitting the multiple girls per scene segment of the story).

So at the end of the day, this is basically just Cari knowing what story he wants to write, understanding the shortcomings of going with writing said narrative, but ultimately sticking to his guns as the overall goal is to make the story he wants to make with only him doing most of the legwork and doing so in a timely manner and without having to spend more time than necessary having to write multiple paths and taking into account what choices the player made and the potential consequences for said choices. Granted, there ARE choices that the player obviously has to make that obviously would lead to different outcomes (i.e. who lives and who dies in the Collector whodunit, whose side you chose in the latter half of the Andromeda event), but they likely won't completely affect the overall narrative that Cari wants to make. And that is fine given the type of narrative that Eternum has (which is a long-format narrative and not a choice-and-consequences style of story).
 
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Jormund

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Takkatakka said:
Why would a path where you can have Annie and all her friends (except Chang) be worse that a path where you can only have Annie? :WaitWhat:
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As for Annie, I just wanted to comment on how I thought the first time that if I confessed to her, I would end up with another path because I would already be in a relationship with her or something like that, when in reality, I realize later that I would only lose content since I can "stay with her" and continue the rest of the game without affecting anything and just win with it.
 
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Jormund

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Dorfnutter said:
The "one route is the true route" hearkens back to the old-school way of writing VNs and was present in most eroges that aren't your average "school setting with more than a dozen love interests or so and no actual plot except getting laid." Branching paths are pretty rare, with some only "branching" after you've done one route, with the rest being treated as unlocks that pad the VN's overall runtime (e.g. Fate/Stay Night's and Full metal Daemon Muramasa's route structure).

The trouble with branching paths IMO is that for a story that basically spans multiple hours of reading and watching cutscenes play out, having branching paths only adds a lot to the dev time required to make said paths feel "meaningful." It's why AVNs like BaDIK basically take a year per update with only an hour or so of gameplay per route (mayhaps even shorter) because the dev has to take into account the multiple routes that exist in that game as well as the "other stuff" that he likes to add because of personal preference...

/eyetwitches at he remembers DPC's unrestrained fetish of adding minigames to his work

...anyhow, the thing with Cari is that he obviously has a story to tell and he wants to tell that with the idea that all members of the harem have something to contribute to the plot and not just act as love interests that the protagonist can choose to screw. With OIAL he had only succeeded in pulling this off with Lauren and Judie, with certain members of the harem having some contribution to the plot but ultimately fell off when they basically served their purpose...and with some not even contributing anything at all and their inclusion is just because they happen to exist (i.e. Jasmine, Iris).

So with Eternum Cari is basically rectifying this issue by making all of the harem members contribute to the plot for the long haul and that itself is a double-edged sword as you have seen, because if you DON'T play it as intended by the dev you're basically locking yourself out on huge chunks of the narrative by going with a one-girl route as each of the girl's route has some contribution to the overall plot. This isn't like in most modern AVNs where branching paths or choices actually matter. On the other hand, doing it this way allows Cari to basically write meatier updates while balancing everyone's desire for lewds by making at least half of the girls have some scenes per update (and this will increase as time goes on, especially once we start hitting the multiple girls per scene segment of the story).

So at the end of the day, this is basically just Cari knowing what story he wants to write, understanding the shortcomings of going with writing said narrative, but ultimately sticking to his guns as the overall goal is to make the story he wants to make with only him doing most of the legwork and doing so in a timely manner and without having to spend more time than necessary having to write multiple paths and taking into account what choices the player made and the potential consequences for said choices. Granted, there ARE choices that the player obviously has to make that obviously would lead to different outcomes (i.e. who lives and who dies in the Collector whodunit, whose side you chose in the latter half of the Andromeda event), but they likely won't completely affect the overall narrative that Cari wants to make. And that is fine given the type of narrative that Eternum has (which is a long-format narrative and not a choice-and-consequences style of story).
Click to expand...
I don't have much to add, you have a point and I already had an idea, I certainly said a system of achievements would increase Cari's work even more, and then it depends on him, in the end we see the story he wants to tell and appreciate it, it's just strange to feel that only I'm not losing anything so I can start taking all the "certainty" choices and moving forward even though I prefer to play "blind" if I do that it would be so penalized losing content, and that's why I can only leave it here, but certainly everything you said is valid and I just want to be able to help directly or indirectly as possible, wanting to support his patreon in the future. But as you said, it's a double-edged sword, where I just feel that I should follow the straight line drawn as it was initially thought by the dev, and going out of it will be penalized even though I would skip a charlote route with pleasure XD.

And with that I'm not saying that any of them are bad so far they are all wonderful and well developed although everyone has their favorites. And in the end, you won't be losing anything, just trying to get everything possible, without being afraid and that takes away a certain weight and I just feel like I'm actually reading a story in a straight line, even if at least like in the game of detective, you can have a certain agency, it's a way around this, and I wouldn't agree with having to end route X to release others.

As I said at the beginning, everything you pointed out is in fact valid, and all that remains is to wait and support and help as possible to deliver the best product as Cari wishes it to be.
 
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Jormund

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Dorfnutter said:
The "one route is the true route" hearkens back to the old-school way of writing VNs and was present in most eroges that aren't your average "school setting with more than a dozen love interests or so and no actual plot except getting laid." Branching paths are pretty rare, with some only "branching" after you've done one route, with the rest being treated as unlocks that pad the VN's overall runtime (e.g. Fate/Stay Night's and Full metal Daemon Muramasa's route structure).

The trouble with branching paths IMO is that for a story that basically spans multiple hours of reading and watching cutscenes play out, having branching paths only adds a lot to the dev time required to make said paths feel "meaningful." It's why AVNs like BaDIK basically take a year per update with only an hour or so of gameplay per route (mayhaps even shorter) because the dev has to take into account the multiple routes that exist in that game as well as the "other stuff" that he likes to add because of personal preference...

/eyetwitches at he remembers DPC's unrestrained fetish of adding minigames to his work

...anyhow, the thing with Cari is that he obviously has a story to tell and he wants to tell that with the idea that all members of the harem have something to contribute to the plot and not just act as love interests that the protagonist can choose to screw. With OIAL he had only succeeded in pulling this off with Lauren and Judie, with certain members of the harem having some contribution to the plot but ultimately fell off when they basically served their purpose...and with some not even contributing anything at all and their inclusion is just because they happen to exist (i.e. Jasmine, Iris).

So with Eternum Cari is basically rectifying this issue by making all of the harem members contribute to the plot for the long haul and that itself is a double-edged sword as you have seen, because if you DON'T play it as intended by the dev you're basically locking yourself out on huge chunks of the narrative by going with a one-girl route as each of the girl's route has some contribution to the overall plot. This isn't like in most modern AVNs where branching paths or choices actually matter. On the other hand, doing it this way allows Cari to basically write meatier updates while balancing everyone's desire for lewds by making at least half of the girls have some scenes per update (and this will increase as time goes on, especially once we start hitting the multiple girls per scene segment of the story).

So at the end of the day, this is basically just Cari knowing what story he wants to write, understanding the shortcomings of going with writing said narrative, but ultimately sticking to his guns as the overall goal is to make the story he wants to make with only him doing most of the legwork and doing so in a timely manner and without having to spend more time than necessary having to write multiple paths and taking into account what choices the player made and the potential consequences for said choices. Granted, there ARE choices that the player obviously has to make that obviously would lead to different outcomes (i.e. who lives and who dies in the Collector whodunit, whose side you chose in the latter half of the Andromeda event), but they likely won't completely affect the overall narrative that Cari wants to make. And that is fine given the type of narrative that Eternum has (which is a long-format narrative and not a choice-and-consequences style of story).
Click to expand...
and in fact, I disagree with this talk of only 1 true end of many, since for me the ending that I got and wanted in my run will be what counts for me.

The only point I currently have is that there is only 1 right answer here to take it in just one way so as not to lose anything at the end and I would only leave it if the girl in question I don't like. and as much as this should be a good thing, because I'm not missing anything I can like and see the hapy end of all including the ones I liked the most or not, I also feel that well there is only 1 correct answer at the end and if I leave them I will be just losing.
 
Dorfnutter

Dorfnutter

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blue_vaito said:
and in fact, I disagree with this talk of only 1 true end of many, since for me the ending that I got and wanted in my run will be what counts for me.
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Just mentioned that because that's how Cari did it with his past game, where
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and how "meatier" it felt compared to the solo endings...not to mention the fact that Eternum references a few things from said end, with one event that happened there being referenced in Orion's introductory monologue.

And given that Cari has already mentioned that the harem end is once again being planned for Eternum as the "meatier" ending...

prf02.jpg

(Pic sauce:
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)

...yeah, the chances of him pulling the "harem end will be acknowledged as the true end in the next game" card all over again is pretty high.

Again, you can discount that if you want, but don't be surprised if Cari chooses to go that route in the eventual next game. /shrugs
 
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Elhemeer

Elhemeer

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Dorfnutter said:
The "one route is the true route" hearkens back to the old-school way of writing VNs and was present in most eroges that aren't your average "school setting with more than a dozen love interests or so and no actual plot except getting laid." Branching paths are pretty rare, with some only "branching" after you've done one route, with the rest being treated as unlocks that pad the VN's overall runtime (e.g. Fate/Stay Night's and Full metal Daemon Muramasa's route structure).

The trouble with branching paths IMO is that for a story that basically spans multiple hours of reading and watching cutscenes play out, having branching paths only adds a lot to the dev time required to make said paths feel "meaningful." It's why AVNs like BaDIK basically take a year per update with only an hour or so of gameplay per route (mayhaps even shorter) because the dev has to take into account the multiple routes that exist in that game as well as the "other stuff" that he likes to add because of personal preference...

/eyetwitches at he remembers DPC's unrestrained fetish of adding minigames to his work

...anyhow, the thing with Cari is that he obviously has a story to tell and he wants to tell that with the idea that all members of the harem have something to contribute to the plot and not just act as love interests that the protagonist can choose to screw. With OIAL he had only succeeded in pulling this off with Lauren and Judie, with certain members of the harem having some contribution to the plot but ultimately fell off when they basically served their purpose...and with some not even contributing anything at all and their inclusion is just because they happen to exist (i.e. Jasmine, Iris).

So with Eternum Cari is basically rectifying this issue by making all of the harem members contribute to the plot for the long haul and that itself is a double-edged sword as you have seen, because if you DON'T play it as intended by the dev you're basically locking yourself out on huge chunks of the narrative by going with a one-girl route as each of the girl's route has some contribution to the overall plot. This isn't like in most modern AVNs where branching paths or choices actually matter. On the other hand, doing it this way allows Cari to basically write meatier updates while balancing everyone's desire for lewds by making at least half of the girls have some scenes per update (and this will increase as time goes on, especially once we start hitting the multiple girls per scene segment of the story).

So at the end of the day, this is basically just Cari knowing what story he wants to write, understanding the shortcomings of going with writing said narrative, but ultimately sticking to his guns as the overall goal is to make the story he wants to make with only him doing most of the legwork and doing so in a timely manner and without having to spend more time than necessary having to write multiple paths and taking into account what choices the player made and the potential consequences for said choices. Granted, there ARE choices that the player obviously has to make that obviously would lead to different outcomes (i.e. who lives and who dies in the Collector whodunit, whose side you chose in the latter half of the Andromeda event), but they likely won't completely affect the overall narrative that Cari wants to make. And that is fine given the type of narrative that Eternum has (which is a long-format narrative and not a choice-and-consequences style of story).
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For this and about 75% of the posts from
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(and Dylan741's super-hug)
*This message has been brought to you by "FARL" (Fappers Against Reaction Limits)*

Second, I could only get through about half of your thesis blue_vaito, mostly because the vibe I was getting from it was:

"This is a fun game. I'm enjoying it. But it's not how I would make the game. Can you, dev, change the game so it's how I would like the game to be? Thanks, 'kay, bye!"​

Maybe that's not what you intended, and maybe if I hadn't just woke up (which says something about me that I'm visiting F95Zone first thing in the morning, I suppose) I'd have got more out of it, but that's one of the things that gets my BP up so I had to stop reading.

On the other hand, you looked like you were being mostly polite about it, so even though it's usually an auto-list offense (in my head) I feel like you're not intending to be a Troll™, so I'll just wish you well and hope you enjoy the rest of your experience here.
 
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