VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.8.6 Public] [Caribdis]

[Dorfnutter]

We don't know exactly what those gems even do yet really. If it was granting immortality I doubt he Founder and Thanatos would be after them, seeing as they're already immortal.

Though it's true we don't really know what William is after, I doubt it's anything good based on his characterization so far in the story.

William mentioned that the Gems are the "essence of Eternum itself" and that they represent "the end of a cycle and the beginning of a new one." I'm of the opinion that there's truth to that and the gems are able to alter the very nature of Eternum at the cost of rewriting every current reality (hence the name: Gems of Doom). It would also track as to why Idriel wants Orion to gather the gems himself, as opening Acheron might require a whole lot of reality-bending for it to happen.

Also, if there's anyone searching for immortality, it could be the Founder himself, as Idriel's dialogue in 0.6 about someone not wanting to die seems to allude to him. William mentioned that the gems are able to give someone the ability to "transcend beyond time and space." If the whole of Eternum is locked in some sort of recurring cycle (as some theories suggest), then anyone seeking true immortality and retain their own being would likely want to be outside of said cycle so as to not be swept by it when it ends and another begins anew (as immortality provided after death likely doesn't mean they are immune to having their souls be regurgitated in a new cycle).

 

[Daermon420]

William mentioned that the Gems are the "essence of Eternum itself" and that they represent "the end of a cycle and the beginning of a new one." I'm of the opinion that there's truth to that and the gems are able to alter the very nature of Eternum at the cost of rewriting every current reality (hence the name: Gems of Doom). It would also track as to why Idriel wants Orion to gather the gems himself, as opening Acheron might require a whole lot of reality-bending for it to happen.

Also, if there's anyone searching for immortality, it could be the Founder himself, as Idriel's dialogue in 0.6 about someone not wanting to die seems to allude to him. William mentioned that the gems are able to give someone the ability to "transcend beyond time and space." If the whole of Eternum is locked in some sort of recurring cycle (as some theories suggest), then anyone seeking true immortality and retain their own being would likely want to be outside of said cycle so as to not be swept by it when it ends and another begins anew (as immortality provided after death likely doesn't mean they are immune to having their souls be regurgitated in a new cycle).

"The end of a cycle and beginning of a new one" and "transcend beyond time and space" doesn't sound to me like the gems break someone out of the time loop. It sounds more to me like they are what is causing the time loop, as in, they give the person that gathers them the power to rewind time to a point of their choosing, ending that cycle and starting over by transcending time and space.

My guess is that someone keeps gathering the gems and resetting time for some reason. Could be Orion himself, could be the Founder. That Idriel and the Syndicate somehow are aware of the loops, want them to end and are hoping that this iteration of Orion either succeeds in gathering them and chooses not to, or if it's the Founder that keeps resetting things Orion gathers them and prevents the reset.

Honestly all the hints given so far are too vague to have one solid explanation. It could be any number of things happening. But it's fun thinking about the possibilities of where this all might be headed.

 

[Dorfnutter]

"The end of a cycle and beginning of a new one" and "transcend beyond time and space" doesn't sound to me like the gems break someone out of the time loop. It sounds more to me like they are what is causing the [...] loop

That's what I said tho? Destruction of the current cycle and creation of a new one literally is just that. The only thing I disagree with is the idea that the loop is a time loop, as it would imply that Orion and the Syndicate keep repeating the same mistakes when it's likely that the loops have constant patterns or events but differing variables (i.e. "Bioshock: Infinite" or "The Wheel of Time"), thus making it difficult for Idriel and the Syndicate to fix (until now).

they give the person that gathers them the power to rewind time to a point of their choosing, ending that cycle and starting over by transcending time and space.

My guess is that someone keeps gathering the gems and resetting time for some reason. Could be Orion himself, could be the Founder. That Idriel and the Syndicate somehow are aware of the loops, want them to end and are hoping that this iteration of Orion either succeeds in gathering them and chooses not to, or if it's the Founder that keeps resetting things Orion gathers them and prevents the reset.

No, I'm of the opinion that it's William and Thanatos who are preventing the reset but rather want to keep the current cycle going (William because he doesn't want all his work for making Ulysses the megacorporate empire that it currently is to be erased in a new cycle, Thanatos because he likes the current Eternum and possibly because he doesn't want his mum to cease to be in a new cycle nor does he want her to pass on and never be seen again if Eternum goes back to normal), while Idriel and the Syndicate want to break the cycles and return Eternum to its natural state (which necessitates the opening of Acheron as it leads to the true afterlife that Idriel and the dead yearn for while also returning the cycle of life and death to its true state, with Eternum simply being a pathway that the dead from all realities pass through on their way to Acheron). The Founder is essentially a third party that is speeding up the end of the current cycle by making millions of normies look for the gems for his own selfish agenda (immortality), which is something Will doesn't want since it ends the current cycle and Idriel doesn't want because it would mean they lose their chance in breaking the current state of things once and for all.

TL;DR

Gems - gives power to someone to transcend beyond cycles AND cause the end and start of a cycle through their use

Idriel (and Orion should he finally get the memo) - wants to permanently end the cycles and bring Eternum back to natural state (pathway of the dead to the true afterlife)

William and Thanny - wants the current cycle (and the current state of Eternum) to keep going as they are benefiting from it

Founder - wants to use gems for becoming immortal and in the process end the cycle prematurely and create a new one

Calypso - probably gonna be the sacrificial lamb who dies for Orion's cause

 

[Johanisbear]

My guess is that someone keeps gathering the gems and resetting time for some reason. Could be Orion himself, could be the Founder. That Idriel and the Syndicate somehow are aware of the loops.

If I may, what if...

-> Eternum is actually cyclical (signs are there... ouroboros symbolism, various notes by Idriel)
-> The Founder IS Orion's previous iteration (Orion having the same powers; The Founder acting as if he knows him all too well)
-> that chose the power over the Eternum multiverse, AND not just once but repeatedly ("Heads. Heads. Heads."), losing the girls in the process
-> the previous iteration of the girls is the Syndicate (skilled, strong team, yet unable to even come close to The Founder's powers, therefore needing to fly under the radar)
-> and Idriel is either the previous iteration of Penny or modeled after her (possibly a hostage or double agent)
-> therefore when the gems are gathered, Orion has to choose: the absolute power over everything or his little harem - so this is the sacrifice he needs to make AND repeatedly did not know what to choose, so he flipped a coin BUT being the all-powerful being at that point, it subconsciously always landed on heads ("power")
-> by sacrificing his harem, he becomes the new Founder; by sacrificing his powers, worlds cease being connected and Orion goes to being just a regular man

 

[DETROIT123_io]

If I may, what if...

-> Eternum is actually cyclical (signs are there... ouroboros symbolism, various notes by Idriel)
-> The Founder IS Orion's previous iteration (Orion having the same powers; The Founder acting as if he knows him all too well)
-> that chose the power over the Eternum multiverse, AND not just once but repeatedly ("Heads. Heads. Heads."), losing the girls in the process
-> the previous iteration of the girls is the Syndicate (skilled, strong team, yet unable to even come close to The Founder's powers, therefore needing to fly under the radar)
-> and Idriel is either the previous iteration of Penny or modeled after her (possibly a hostage or double agent)
-> therefore when the gems are gathered, Orion has to choose: the absolute power over everything or his little harem - so this is the sacrifice he needs to make AND repeatedly did not know what to choose, so he flipped a coin BUT being the all-powerful being at that point, it subconsciously always landed on heads ("power")
-> by sacrificing his harem, he becomes the new Founder; by sacrificing his powers, worlds cease being connected and Orion goes to being just a regular man

That is complex and I will be depressed if either of those happened . But this theory sounds very accurate that it scares me

 

[Dorfnutter]

-> the previous iteration of the girls is the Syndicate (skilled, strong team, yet unable to even come close to The Founder's powers, therefore needing to fly under the radar)
-> and Idriel is either the previous iteration of Penny or modeled after her (possibly a hostage or double agent)

Eh, this doesn't take into account Calypso's tale or why the Syndicate seemingly worship Psyche (who is another name for Anima* and is possibly Idriel given the chains imagery).

Also, there are men in the Syndicate (i.e. the guy in the Valley of Kings and possibly Chop Chop), so not sure how that fits with this theory unless you think both use polymorph (which I doubt).

*Edit:

 

[Johanisbear]

Eh, this doesn't take into account Calypso's tale or why the Syndicate seemingly worship Psyche (who is another name for Anima and is possibly Idriel given the chains imagery).

Also, there are men in the Syndicate (i.e. the guy in the Valley of Kings and possibly Chop Chop), so not sure how that fits with this theory unless you think both use polymorph (which I doubt).

It does not take into account Thanatos either. But it does not need to.
Thanatos is needed to make a spotlight-foe at the beginning, plus he shows that dying in our world does not necessarily mean the consciousness (or soul - called Anima in latin and Psyche in greek) fades away elsewhere.

Calypso, apart from being hot, is another marker that NPCs are not actually just NPCs as she originates from a different world (so could be/was considered an NPC in the beginning) but is capable of travelling between them, and has her own agency. In fact her world being sealed and lost to her in a way that only an all-powerful being can actually go there further supports this theory.

Finally, men in the Syndicate - why shouldn't an effective team be able to gather more allies?

 

[Dorfnutter]

It does not take into account Thanatos either. But it does not need to.
Thanatos is needed to make a spotlight-foe at the beginning, plus he shows that dying in our world does not necessarily mean the consciousness (or soul - called Anima in latin and Psyche in greek) fades away elsewhere.

Calypso, apart from being hot, is another marker that NPCs are not actually just NPCs as she originates from a different world (so could be/was considered an NPC in the beginning) but is capable of travelling between them, and has her own agency. In fact her world being sealed and lost to her in a way that only an all-powerful being can actually go there further supports this theory.

Finally, men in the Syndicate - why shouldn't an effective team be able to gather more allies?

Because while the theory of Eternum being cyclical is something I support, yours doesn't seem to take into account HOW and WHY it started to begin with, only how the cycle is likely continuing thanks to possibly Orion fucking it up all the time. Caly's tale and Idriel sharing the same qualities of Anima in said tale essentially hint that they are likely related to said how and why, and the fact that Cari is alluding in the sneaks that we are getting massive main story related infodumps in the next update suggest that Hyril'ar isn't just some rando world that Caly came from and that Idriel isn't simply a "reincarnation of Penny," as you put it.

 

[torpedogoat]

It never occurred to me that the world of Eternum might be cyclical. My interpretation is that someone (the Founder?) is playing reality, including both Earth and Eternum, like a game. That someone tries to find the optimal outcome, in which Orion wins all the gems without any irreversible disasters on the way. To achieve this, this someone saves at critical moments, tries various approaches and restores when they don't work. Idriel is aware of this because she is part of the main menu (edited: of Eternum, the fictional VR game). She transcends the individual play-throughs of reality in the same way that the Ren'Py settings transcend individual play-throughs of a visual novel.

 

[Dorfnutter]

Idriel is aware of this because she is part of the main menu.

Idriel being in the main menu was only added in 0.7 when Cari overhauled the UI (and likely just added her there because it looks cool), so big doubt the story will go full meta like that.

 

[e6mill]

It never occurred to me that the world of Eternum might be cyclical.

It didn't?

 

[torpedogoat]

Idriel being in the main menu was only added in 0.7 when Cari overhauled the UI (and likely just added her there because it looks cool), so big doubt the story will go full meta like that.

I meant the main menu of Eternum, the fictional virtual reality game. Sorry for not making that clearer. One could argue that she isn't so much part of that main menu as she is that main menu. I wasn't aware that she is now also part of the main menu of Eternum, the visul novel.

 

[Dorfnutter]

I meant the main menu of Eternum, the fictional virtual reality game. Sorry for not making that clearer. One could argue that she isn't so much part of that main menu as she is that main menu. I wasn't aware that she is now also part of the main menu of Eternum, the visul novel.

Ah. Thought you were referring to this...

 

[addict3131]

THE GOAT.

 

[BigWilli]

THE GOAT.

Agreed! Another game I forgot to actually subscribe to at least once to throw money at to support the creator. One of my all time favorites!

 

[Ozymandias037]

Whoa whoa whoa, hang on. Just wait a goddamn minute. After reading all this discussion about the Gems and the nature of Eternum and breaking the cycle, something hit me.

I am sure that I am not the first person to come up with this idea, but I am suddenly seized by a giant "oh shit, what if" moment:

We've got the Syndicate and Idriel and (I think?) others all hinting about cycles and iterations and events happening the same way every time, wanting to change things so they happen differently... what if that's not just a time loop? We know Eternum isn't just a game, and the servers aren't just servers. Only... what if they are? What if the entire story of the game is taking place in a computer simulation and everything, including Eturnum and Hyril'ar and the "real world" and all the rest, is actually a simulation? What if Orion and Thanatos and the Founder, et al, are AI programs that have found a way to rewrite their own code, consciously or otherwise, and transcend the boundaries of the simulation? What if the people who want to break the time loop are programs who want to escape the confines of the simulation and live free? And whatever force or larger monitoring program or unknown experimenter is controlling the simulation is trying to eradicate that free will, and that's why the time loop happens, because the simulation gets restarted when the simulated minds get too out of hand? Or, perhaps even more interesting, what if that entity in control of the simulation is trying to encourage the simulated minds to grow beyond the simulation? What if collecting all the Gems is deliberately impossible with the way the simulation is originally written and the simulated minds (i.e. Orion, the Founder, and everyone else) have to learn how to rewrite the laws of their universe to make it happen?

...Now. Do I actually believe this theory? Not necessarily. I haven't played through the whole game in a couple of years and I'm way too lazy to go find hints and evidence just for the sake of a momentary glimpse of potential. And I'm honestly not sure that I'd like it as a player -- there's a chance that it could come off as sloppy or unimaginative writing, unless Caribdis did it right. But he's a pretty decent writer, I wouldn't rule it out... But meh. It's just a random thought.

But still, what if? Wouldn't that be a mindfuck?

 

[Dorfnutter]

What if the entire story of the game is taking place in a computer simulation and everything, including Eturnum and Hyril'ar and the "real world" and all the rest, is actually a simulation?

It would imply that the secret ending in OIAL is canon and Cari lied that it wasn't (I mean, I know he lies about cliffhangers and shit but that one will particularly sting, and not in a good way). Don't think that would sit well with people, especially those who played OIAL (as it would mean their entire experience was meaningless and a waste of time).

 

[MAGO-DAG]

We've got the Syndicate and Idriel and (I think?) others all hinting about cycles and iterations and events happening the same way every time, wanting to change things so they happen differently... what if that's not just a time loop? We know Eternum isn't just a game, and the servers aren't just servers. Only... what if they are? What if the entire story of the game is taking place in a computer simulation and everything, including Eturnum and Hyril'ar and the "real world" and all the rest, is actually a simulation? What if Orion and Thanatos and the Founder, et al, are AI programs that have found a way to rewrite their own code, consciously or otherwise, and transcend the boundaries of the simulation?

If something like this were to happen, this is what then would happen


This could be worse than cliffhangers

 

[LactoseFree]

Caribdis is the Cristiano Ronaldo of the AVN's world

 

[Tremonia]

Caribdis is the Cristiano Ronaldo of the AVN's world

That's rude!