VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.8.6 Public] [Caribdis]

[Idontplay]

I think you're reading way too much player knowledge into the scene and not taking it at face value.

As far as the MC knows they are just two guys who don't take school seriously and have had to repeat their last year a few times. Also, Nancy and everyone else he's met that knows them says they are good dude, at worst just lazy and a little bit of troublemakers. No one he has met has described them as gangster or criminals. True we assume based on the conversation we heard that they are possible criminals, but the MC didn't hear that conversation. Not to mention that knowing Caribdis there may be a twist with their characters, and they aren't actually criminals at all. They definitely went extra on dealing with Yoga-boy, but then again, you are using player knowledge and post event knowledge to unfairly judge the scene the actions of the MC if he goes to them for help. Kia is also taking advantage of his position with Nancy too; he isn't an innocent guy here. And he's rich, who knows he may even end up being a bad guy, partners with the Alex's dad and such. And Noah and Raul accepted payment, again, the MC's original offer of 5 dollars should tell you his thoughts about it, he never anticipated anything more than them distracting him by maybe taking him aside for a chat or something, so the idea that it will end up with him owing them a favor now is not consistent with the scene as presented.

These are just my thoughts, and you are free to disagree, but I think you're being a little harsh on the scene.

I think to have five minutes to explain (more or less) properly my point of view and I think the best way to do that is start with what Orion surely knows, what we can suppose he thinks (at least in my opinion) and what he doesn't know when the scene in the yoga class happened.
1) He knows he is sexually attracted by Nancy.
2) He doesn't know if she is sexually attracted by him; he can hope that, but at that point of the story he doesn't know.
3) He can suppose the repeaters aren't nice guys, because in the real world usually the students who cannot graduate from secondary school aren't exactly good guys and because the appearance Caribdis gave to them isn't exactly reassuring.
4) Orion can't know what the repeaters said to the professor, but this may be insignificant due to the point above.
5) We know there may be a twist with their characters, due to what Caribdis did with Stabby Mike; but this is what we know, not Orion.
6) Orion knows that there can't be a love story among him and Nancy, because she is 20/30 years old than him, so start to act like an extremely jealous boyfriend is really inappropriate; and potentially counterproductive due to the following points.
7) Orion can't know very much about Nancy's sentimental life, because he has started to live in her house a week ago.
8) Orion should know that start to mess up with the others' love affairs, is the best way to put himself in trouble; above all if he doesn't know extremely well the affair he is trying to sabotage.
This is why I think the scene isn't properly developed and consequentially not funny to me.

 

[HogRocket]

Yes, the .gif is just a few seconds, but it was ubiquitous for a very long time a year or so ago, and it sticks with you. Maybe it's pure coincidence, maybe it isn't. But the shape of the smile, teeth touching, eyes, etc., that create the overall expression are extremely similar, almost identical, so it still raises the question for me. When I saw Nova on the phone on that multi-way call, even though there was no animation, I could swear her head was nodding the same way, even though I know it was a still image.

It's used pretty often in the Eternum discord and has been for as long as I've been in it (since v0.6 of Once in a Lifetime). You can even find a cropped version of it in the emoji section for the discord. Still probably just a coincidence but it's possible they're all inspired from that gif

Or is could be that people use that meme on Discord because it looks like the girls in the game, and people see a resemblance. I don't know anything about HS2 but in Daz its actually a pretty time consuming effort to copy the look or expression from outside source material - more time than it's worth for an esoteric meme to me.

I'm not attacking anyone who sees the similarity or thinks the meme is the origin, I just think from a work-flow standpoint it doesn't make the best sense and have the view that " correlation does not imply causation". I have asked devs directly about similar things and had most of them respond "I never thought of it that way" or similar. To be fair a few have said "exactly! good catch!" so without input by Caribdis there is no telling.

Either way it's no big deal, I like the Eternum girls no matter how they smile.

 

[Dorfnutter]

3) He can suppose the repeaters aren't nice guys, because in the real world usually the students who cannot graduate from secondary school aren't exactly good guys and because the appearance Caribdis gave to them isn't exactly reassuring.

Man, this is such a bad take that I can't even.

In the real world, students who can't graduate from secondary school usually have more reasons other than "falling in with the wrong crowd," especially in some countries. Financial difficulties forcing them to drop out, having trouble keeping up with the requirements of an education system that rewards rote memorization over genuine learning, lack of proper educational budget that forces certain schools to close even before the student can graduate, being driven out of school because they are actively bullied, etc.

6) Orion knows that there can't be a love story among him and Nancy, because she is 20/30 years old than him, so start to act like an extremely jealous boyfriend is really inappropriate; and potentially counterproductive due to the following points.

Problem with this is that the decision to either act as an extremely jealous boyfriend or not falls upon the player, not Orion. Can't really fully fault Orion for doing something rash if you're the one making him do so.

And even if you argue that "well that's the recommended route so that's what I'm arguing against," take note that Orion also said that he doesn't like Kai as a person at all (even going so far as to call him a "hippie" like that's a bad thing), so that's an extra reason for him to mess with him...although like what the others said, I don't think he ever expected the Repeaters to do what they did.

 

[Idontplay]

Man, this is such a bad take that I can't even.

In the real world, students who can't graduate from secondary school usually have more reasons other than "falling in with the wrong crowd," especially in some countries. Financial difficulties forcing them to drop out, having trouble keeping up with the requirements of an education system that rewards rote memorization over genuine learning, lack of proper educational budget that forces certain schools to close even before the student can graduate, being driven out of school because they are actively bullied, etc.

Look, I have seen too many poor students graduate from secondary school and too many students be unable to do that, due to their decision to follow another path (which involved always the use of drugs, robberies and other similar activities) to believe that. Same thing is true for the students who have trouble keeping up with the requirements of the education system, for lack of proper educational budget, for being bullied etc. If a student actually want to graduate, he will find a way: he can work and study, he can go to another school, he can opt for the homeschooling, he can report the bully (and/or the entire School Board) to the Police etc.

Problem with this is that the decision to either act as an extremely jealous boyfriend or not falls upon the player, not Orion. Can't really fully fault Orion for doing something rash if you're the one making him do so.

Unfortunately the player can't chose freely. He can choose only among the options the developer gives to him and if the player can choose only between lost the Nancy path or make Orion act like an extremely jealous boyfriend, it isn't player's fault.

And even if you argue that "well that's the recommended route so that's what I'm arguing against," take note that Orion also said that he doesn't like Kai as a person at all (even going so far as to call him a "hippie" like that's a bad thing), so that's an extra reason for him to mess with him...although like what the others said, I don't think he ever expected the Repeaters to do what they did.

This is a very disappointing objection, because I have never argued that. On the contrary I think the scene has a very high potential, but due to the fact I think it wasn't developed properly, it wasn't funny for me; this is what I have stated.

 

[Dunner]

Do you know who you just pissed off, you moth#####ker? Do you know who I am? I am a fucking Bardot! I will make your life miserable. I'll turn your existence into a nightmare. For both you and your loved ones.

Spoiler: P.S.

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Let's be honest: All the girls are best girls.
For example: Alex is very good at that YouTube meme game "The lion sleeps tonight"

 

[Miraql24]

Lovin' the uniqueness of the plot.

 

[Son of Durin]

Do you know who you just pissed off, you moth#####ker? Do you know who I am? I am a fucking Bardot! I will make your life miserable. I'll turn your existence into a nightmare. For both you and your loved ones.

Spoiler: P.S.

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I finally started playing the game (had previously just seen saved scenes posted on PH) and literally played that scene less than 12 hours ago.

Well done.

Of course, your avatar kind of has that look. Or are you a Malfoy?

 

[Son of Durin]

Or is could be that people use that meme on Discord because it looks like the girls in the game, and people see a resemblance. I don't know anything about HS2 but in Daz its actually a pretty time consuming effort to copy the look or expression from outside source material - more time than it's worth for an esoteric meme to me.

I'm not attacking anyone who sees the similarity or thinks the meme is the origin, I just think from a work-flow standpoint it doesn't make the best sense and have the view that " correlation does not imply causation". I have asked devs directly about similar things and had most of them respond "I never thought of it that way" or similar. To be fair a few have said "exactly! good catch!" so without input by Caribdis there is no telling.

Either way it's no big deal, I like the Eternum girls no matter how they smile.

My speculation also was whether the HS2 guys may have been influenced, since I don't know how easy it is to alter the base set of expressions made by the asset developer. As an asset developer, how better to have characters that can do "adorable" than to develop your base character on one of the most adorable meme girls on the net? There's a reason you can sometimes see the faces of well known individuals in AVN characters: whether HS2 or Daz, the base asset developer had to get inspiration from somewhere - maybe multiple somewheres/someones. I'd suspect it is conscious at least as often as it is unconscious.

 

[Son of Durin]

Let's be honest: All the girls are best girls.
For example: Alex is very good at that YouTube meme game "The lion sleeps tonight"
View attachment 1843928

Even saggy tits Charlotte (I think that's her name...)?

 

[Dorfnutter]

Look, I have seen too many poor students graduate from secondary school and too many students be unable to do that, due to their decision to follow another path (which involved always the use of drugs, robberies and other similar activities) to believe that. Same thing is true for the students who have trouble keeping up with the requirements of the education system, for lack of proper educational budget, for being bullied etc. If a student actually want to graduate, he will find a way: he can work and study, he can go to another school, he can opt for the homeschooling, he can report the bully (and/or the entire School Board) to the Police etc.

Imagine using a personal anecdote to make a sweeping generalization when there's evidence that suggest that that's not always the case:

"...The analysis suggested that, from the perspectives of the fathers, family poverty, poor academic performance and issues relating to teachers’ engagement with teaching at school were main factors involved in a student dropping out of school."

Source: " Secondary school students who drop out of school in rural Pakistan: The perspectives of fathers."

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"... Results: Most participants (both genders: 32,6 %, males: 29.4%, and females: 35,4 %) said that they were responsible for dropping out of school. For both genders, several reasons for dropping out were reported: Peer influence (11.3%), Death of parent (10%), Academic failure (10%), Teacher's or other students' behaviours (10%), Economic reasons (9.3%), Health reasons (8.6%). For females, unwanted pregnancy, rape, or early marriage (8%), and males, being involved in sport and music (17.6%)."

Source: "Causes and Consequences of School Dropout in Kinshasa: Students’ Perspectives before and after Dropping out."

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Source: "School Based Factors and the Dropout Phenomenon: A Study of Zhomba Cluster Secondary Schools in Gokwe District of Zimbabwe."

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But sure, let's blame those students who were forced to drop out because of factors that they have no control of. They didn't deserve to graduate anyway because they didn't go above and beyond in order to finish their schooling. Nevermind the fact that some of them live in countries where not even hard work and determination can get them out of their socioeconomic situation and back into the classroom, or possibly have PTSD/depression because of whatever kind of shit they had to go through while at school, particularly those who dropped out after being raped. Nah, they're bad students.

Unfortunately the player can't chose freely. He can choose only among the options the developer gives to him and if the player can choose only between lost the Nancy path or make Orion act like an extremely jealous boyfriend, it isn't player's fault.

It's still a player choice though. Just because the options don't suit to your tastes or are basically "romance or nah" doesn't mean the latter choice of saying "fuck this, let her bang the hippie" is invalid. You can still technically proceed through the game. It's just that you no longer are pursuing Nancy (which, by your words earlier, should not be an issue with Orion because he "knows that there can't be a love story among him and Nancy, because she is 20/30 years old than him, so start to act like an extremely jealous boyfriend is really inappropriate").

This is a very disappointing objection, because I have never argued that. On the contrary I think the scene has a very high potential, but due to the fact I think it wasn't developed properly, it wasn't funny for me; this is what I have stated.

How exactly do you propose to develop it, then?

 

[DaweFan69]

Run Boy Run Run Boy Run Run Boy Run Away


































Run aweeeh

 

[JoeTheMC84]

Even saggy tits Charlotte (I think that's her name...)?

I’ve always had a soft spot for the bitchy popular girl who secretly has a heart of gold but because she’s a teenager she is too caught up in the mess of school life and doing what others want her to to be popular. Not saying she is that, but I wouldn’t mind if she was and we get to steal her away from Axel… and learn first hand if her tits are saggy or not.

 

[Son of Durin]

I’ve always had a soft spot for the bitchy popular girl who secretly has a heart of gold but because she’s a teenager she is too caught up in the mess of school life and doing what others want her to to be popular. Not saying she is that, but I wouldn’t mind if she was and we get to steal her away from Axel… and learn first hand if her tits are saggy or not.

That could be okay. Might be more funny to accidentally jump into a Dom server with Calypso and party after they escape the upcoming heist to see Charlotte pegging Axel, and revealing Axel to be underwhelming. She'd be wearing a leather get up with a shelf for the saggers, and Axel would be screaming for it to go deeper and to add more sawdust.

 

[Mako2281437]

How? HOW!? Nova literally has EVERY SINGLE TRAIT I like in a girl. GOD DAMN!
Alright, I was unsure of her character before, but now I am certain. Nova best girl, come fight me!
View attachment 1843211

I completely agree with this. The head pat shit sold me, she's already a chaotic good type character which I love and I subjectively think I am. The only thing is the knife thing that would be crazy in real life even the MC says or thinks "I shouldn't stick my dick in crazy". Other than that, I'm loving her. Shame I got to talk to Alex, the whole independent rebel thing is less appealing to me than people like Nova, Luna, Dalia, & Annie

 

[Mako2281437]

I think you're reading way too much player knowledge into the scene and not taking it at face value.

As far as the MC knows they are just two guys who don't take school seriously and have had to repeat their last year a few times. Also, Nancy and everyone else he's met that knows them says they are good dude, at worst just lazy and a little bit of troublemakers. No one he has met has described them as gangster or criminals. True we assume based on the conversation we heard that they are possible criminals, but the MC didn't hear that conversation. Not to mention that knowing Caribdis there may be a twist with their characters, and they aren't actually criminals at all. They definitely went extra on dealing with Yoga-boy, but then again, you are using player knowledge and post event knowledge to unfairly judge the scene the actions of the MC if he goes to them for help. Kia is also taking advantage of his position with Nancy too; he isn't an innocent guy here. And he's rich, who knows he may even end up being a bad guy, partners with the Alex's dad and such. And Noah and Raul accepted payment, again, the MC's original offer of 5 dollars should tell you his thoughts about it, he never anticipated anything more than them distracting him by maybe taking him aside for a chat or something, so the idea that it will end up with him owing them a favor now is not consistent with the scene as presented.

These are just my thoughts, and you are free to disagree, but I think you're being a little harsh on the scene.

You make good points, I get Kai is using his position. After watching and replaying the Nancy scenes it does seem at least from player perspective it looks like she likes the MC way more, even before the shenanigans at the gym. Just was kind of shocked is all, MC isn't a douchebag probably doesn't want nancy to be hurt I guess. Plus, to the MC's credit, I don't think he mentions having a threesome or foursome with nancy and people close with her. Maybe after the yoga stuff he does, but I've only played up till you go to Alex's house

 

[Micro usb type b]

this some good stuff

 

[Son of Durin]

So this is what A-train has been up to after getting kicked from the 7..

View attachment 1842120
View attachment 1842125

Really liked the way that scene ended.

 

[Idontplay]

Imagine using a personal anecdote to make a sweeping generalization when there's evidence that suggest that that's not always the case:

Are sure I'm not able to show statistics which prove my point?

It's still a player choice though. Just because the options don't suit to your tastes or are basically "romance or nah" doesn't mean the latter choice of saying "fuck this, let her bang the hippie" is invalid. You can still technically proceed through the game. It's just that you no longer are pursuing Nancy (which, by your words earlier, should not be an issue with Orion because he "knows that there can't be a love story among him and Nancy, because she is 20/30 years old than him, so start to act like an extremely jealous boyfriend is really inappropriate").

"But sure, let's blame those students players who were forced to drop out because of factors that they have no control of."
I'm sorry but I couldn't help.

How exactly do you propose to develop it, then?

In my opinion the greatest issue with that scene is the timing: Caribdis has dismissed the entire subplot in a single yoga lesson and with few dialogues to justify the Orion's action, while he should have spent more time (three or four yoga lessons), to achieve the same ending. In this way he could have described in a more detailed way the true nature of that guy, his true intentions with Nancy and doing so, he could have make the players more involved in the Orion's feeling that he must act to protect Nancy from that womanizer. Moreoveer Caribdis could have spent that time to prepare in a better way the punchline: the intervent of the repeaters.

Anyway this quarrel is lasted too long and I don't want bother the other users further, so there will not be other replies.

 

[ashencone]

Spoiler: Image from Group Project with Alex

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We all know what we did at that scene in the game, but if this happened to you IRL, (consider Alex as your crush with similar character), how many of you actually have the guts to speak up at this scene? I'll be honest, I don't think I do.

 

[Dylan741]

Spoiler: Image from Group Project with Alex

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We all know what we did at that scene in the game, but if this happened to you IRL, (consider Alex as your crush with similar character), how many of you actually have the guts to speak up at this scene? I'll be honest, I don't think I do.

It wouldn't have happened to me because Alex is too pretty and out of league for me IRL.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that if I was lucky enough to have her as a girlfriend or date her, and this scene had happened ... well I can assure you that the father would have needed the wheelchair for the rest of his life, in case I'd been holding back...