VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.9.4] [Caribdis]

[Dorfnutter]

That sounded more negative than I meant it. My real point was that this story works very, very well without all the adult parts. And from other people's comments I know that I am not the only one who plays this explicitly for the story in the same way that we watch Hollywood movies primarily for the story, even if they contain sex scenes.

It is true that Eternum has fantastic sex scenes, and that they are very well integrated. Sometimes I run Eternum specifically because I want to see them. But there are other times than when I run Eternum to go through the story. Also, there are non-trivial dynamics between the various love interests (= prospective harem members). But they are not on the same level as in the other game I have in mind, even though that one is over a year younger and has a little less content. When I play that other game (which is kinetic), I do so specifically for the harem building, and I think that's typical.

I mean, you said it yourself: the game is kinetic, so the story is already built with the idea that it's harem or nothing. Meanwhile Eternum still gives players the freedom to go solo route or harem, so the harem buildup isn't going to happen right away.

 

[Leinad_Sevla]

Dalia is extremely competitive and wanted to prove she is tough enough to take getting facefucked, in particular after bragging to Orion that she has no gag reflex.

I´m still not convinced that she can take it rough. I´m going to need more proof, a lot more!!

 

[danb35]

But they are not on the same level as in the other game I have in mind

The difference is that in CC, nobody's optional, so that dev can do things with the story that Carib just can't. Vicky wants to join the harem, in part, because she's jealous of Lucy. But if the player's some kind of deviant who doesn't like Lucy and avoids her route (if that were possible to do), the dev has to account for both paths--which quickly becomes an exponentially-increasing number of paths. In CC, the dev can write one story in one way, but this makes the "player" more of a "reader."

In Eternum, if you're some kind of bizarre freak who doesn't like Luna, you don't have to be on her path (and how much of the purpose for that is "you can avoid LIs you don't like" and how much is "have some kind of game play element," I don't know--though I have my favorites, I can't really see how anyone could dislike any of the LIs in Eternum). But that means either (1) each LI is in her own silo, her actions and motivations independent of all of the others; (2) Carib has to set and keep track of a lot of tracking variables, and write lots of variations of dialogue to account for all of them; or (3) some combination of these. This gives the player meaningful choices, but it's a lot more storytelling work, particularly when (as in Eternum) there are multiple off-ramps to any given LI's path. Carib's done that work, to a large degree. But if you're off Luna's path, Luna's still going to be in the story--and if you're off her path because you don't like her, you probably aren't happy about that.

I don't know that I'd say it's impossible for a game like Eternum to hang together as well as a game like CC, but I'd think it's exponentially more difficult.

And yes, both the "deviant" and the "bizarre freak" are (mostly) tongue-in-cheek.

 

[someoneyouknow2452]

The difference is that in CC, nobody's optional, so that dev can do things with the story that Carib just can't. Vicky wants to join the harem, in part, because she's jealous of Lucy. But if the player's some kind of deviant who doesn't like Lucy and avoids her route (if that were possible to do), the dev has to account for both paths--which quickly becomes an exponentially-increasing number of paths. In CC, the dev can write one story in one way, but this makes the "player" more of a "reader."

In Eternum, if you're some kind of bizarre freak who doesn't like Luna, you don't have to be on her path (and how much of the purpose for that is "you can avoid LIs you don't like" and how much is "have some kind of game play element," I don't know--though I have my favorites, I can't really see how anyone could dislike any of the LIs in Eternum). But that means either (1) each LI is in her own silo, her actions and motivations independent of all of the others; (2) Carib has to set and keep track of a lot of tracking variables, and write lots of variations of dialogue to account for all of them; or (3) some combination of these. This gives the player meaningful choices, but it's a lot more storytelling work, particularly when (as in Eternum) there are multiple off-ramps to any given LI's path. Carib's done that work, to a large degree. But if you're off Luna's path, Luna's still going to be in the story--and if you're off her path because you don't like her, you probably aren't happy about that.

I don't know that I'd say it's impossible for a game like Eternum to hang together as well as a game like CC, but I'd think it's exponentially more difficult.

And yes, both the "deviant" and the "bizarre freak" are (mostly) tongue-in-cheek.

I'm pretty sure that players who exclude one or more girls from Eternum are gonna pay a heavier and heavier price the closer we get to the end. There is no way that Caribdis will be able to keep track of all the multiple combinations for all future scenes. Remember his previous game just had a cut-down version of the same ending montage for the single-LI endings from the Harem ending. There is no way we're getting fleshed out endings for the single-LI's here. There is simply too many of them. I'd be happy if we get a proper harem ending that is more than a montage.

There is only one game I can think of that did totally different endings for different girls and even combinations of girls and it is a MUCH shorter game that Eternum. (Not gonna name it here so don't ask for it)

 

[torpedogoat]

The difference is that in CC, nobody's optional, so that dev can do things with the story that Carib just can't. Vicky wants to join the harem, in part, because she's jealous of Lucy. But if the player's some kind of deviant who doesn't like Lucy and avoids her route (if that were possible to do), the dev has to account for both paths--which quickly becomes an exponentially-increasing number of paths. In CC, the dev can write one story in one way, but this makes the "player" more of a "reader."

In Eternum, if you're some kind of bizarre freak who doesn't like Luna, you don't have to be on her path (and how much of the purpose for that is "you can avoid LIs you don't like" and how much is "have some kind of game play element," I don't know--though I have my favorites, I can't really see how anyone could dislike any of the LIs in Eternum). But that means either (1) each LI is in her own silo, her actions and motivations independent of all of the others; (2) Carib has to set and keep track of a lot of tracking variables, and write lots of variations of dialogue to account for all of them; or (3) some combination of these. This gives the player meaningful choices, but it's a lot more storytelling work, particularly when (as in Eternum) there are multiple off-ramps to any given LI's path. Carib's done that work, to a large degree. But if you're off Luna's path, Luna's still going to be in the story--and if you're off her path because you don't like her, you probably aren't happy about that.

I don't know that I'd say it's impossible for a game like Eternum to hang together as well as a game like CC, but I'd think it's exponentially more difficult.

And yes, both the "deviant" and the "bizarre freak" are (mostly) tongue-in-cheek.

Exactly. It's practically unfeasible to make a perfect harem game that also allows you to reject love interests. Caribdis seems to have done a good job of trying that, but it hasn't quite worked. When I played Eternum for the first time, I made some mistake concerning Dalia and lost her. As a result I lost a lot of content and got some minor continuity errors when later scenes assumed earlier scenes I had never seen. That's the price you have to pay for making a game that works both as a harem game and as a single love interest game. It won't be quite as good as it could otherwise be, even on the canonical harem path. And single love interest paths will typically be short or defective.

This is unavoidable without unprecedented effort, and not a defect of Eternum. It just means you can't create a single AVN that is the best in all the various categories. Eternum is the best AVN overall and the best adventure AVN, but it is not quite the best harem AVN and certainly not the best single love interest AVN. Eternum could become that, e.g. through a large community effort after it has otherwise been finished. It would require careful testing and fixing of all route combinations to fix all continuity errors (could mostly be done changing text only), plus a lot of additional scenes for various route combinations to fill in gaps and improve interactions inside the harem (would require new renders). Unless/until something like this happens, Eternum is the best AVN and an excellent harem AVN, but it is not the best harem AVN.

 

[danb35]

There is no way we're getting fleshed out endings for the single-LI's here.

Agreed--while it's possible to play for a solo route, that's very much not the design of the game.

I'd be happy of we get a proper harem ending that is more than a montage.

I had few complaints about OiaL, but that was one of them--aside from a couple of threesomes, none of the girls knew about any of the others until we're one big, happy, pregnant family at the end. I do think we're going to get more build-up to it here, though (and I say that having not seen most of 0.8). First, we have MC wondering in passing whether the girls would be upset about him messing around. Sure, he dismisses the thought pretty quickly, but at least the question's been raised.

Second, everyone (except, possibly, for Luna and Nova) knows that MC didn't come home the night he spent at Alex's apartment, and they know about his conversation with William--they have to know he spent it there.

Third, they all know each other, and all pretty well, and they all know at least that MC's pretty close with all of them. They're not dumb.

Fourth, Nancy, at least, knows that Nova's date with MC in 0.7 was important to her. She also all but encourages MC to get with Dalia, Penny, or both. Moreover, as Calypso rightly says, she's a powerful ruler in her own right--I expect she's going to have a lot to do with getting the harem together.

Fifth, Carib has said that every girl gets a threesome, which will mean, at a minimum, that every girl will know that MC's with at least one other girl.

So I'm still not sure what it's going to look like, I'm confident we're going to see much more building of the harem that we did in OiaL.

 

[Daermon420]

Third, they all know each other, and all pretty well, and they all know at least that MC's pretty close with all of them. They're not dumb.

This right here is why I'm fairly sure that most of the girls are already aware of the situation. They all know each other pretty well by this point, and friends talk to each other about this sort of thing. It'd be very unlikely that none of them ever brings up their private time with Orion to any of the others while they chat. Which is all it would take, 1 of them talking about it. Then they'd start to compare notes with each-other.

 

[someoneyouknow2452]

So I'm still not sure what it's going to look like, I'm confident we're going to see much more building of the harem that we did in OiaL.

If I may speculate a little, I think the girls will figure it all out by next episode. Especially if Orion goes missing for a few days before returning from Hyril'ar. The teaser renders released so far has pretty much spoiled that they are in fact very worried.

The fact that they are keeping it a secret from each other for so long despite being so close is getting more and more unrealistic. Girls talk about this stuff to each other all the time and way more than guys do after all.

It would also be the perfect vehicle to bring it all out in the open without causing an all out war between them. Their shared concern for Orion's well being.

 

[briansanders]

If I may speculate a little, I think the girls will figure it all out by next episode. Especially if Orion goes missing for a few days before returning from Hyril'ar. The teaser renders released so far has pretty much spoiled that they are in fact very worried.

The fact that they are keeping it a secret from each other for so long despite being so close is getting more and more unrealistic. Girls talk about this stuff to each other all the time and way more than guys do after all.

It would also be the perfect vehicle to bring it all out in the open without causing an all out war between them. Their shared concern for Orion's well being.

Nova and Nancy already know it. Alex and Dalia are definitely gonna find out. Alex wanted to talk about the apartment sex with Dalia a while back and was also ok with sharing Orion and in the last update when Orion finally had sex with Dalia, she was pretty excited and wanted to tell about it to Alex asap It would be funny if the next episode ends with all the girls confronting Orion

 

[ruby_rubicon]

... they all know each other, and all pretty well, and they all know at least that MC's pretty close with all of them. They're not dumb....

I could bet half a cheeto that the "we're living in a harem" notion is known to everyone but Orion. The "reveal" will be the punchline of a bit where the girls will pretend they find out accidentally and feel cheated, Orion gets really anxious about losing them all, and we as players will have the option to own it or deny it only to reveal they all knew about it already tee hee, add/subtract heart points, curtain down.

 

[OsirisHeir._]

Kinda reminds me of that scene where Alex, Dalia, and Penny were talking about Orion without explicitly saying his name. I agree that Orion being in Hyril’ar could definitely get the LI confess their love for him to each other.

 

[e6mill]

Nova and Nancy already know it. Alex and Dalia are definitely gonna find out. Alex wanted to talk about the apartment sex with Dalia a while back and was also ok with sharing Orion and in the last update when Orion finally had sex with Dalia, she was pretty excited and wanted to tell about it to Alex asap It would be funny if the next episode ends with all the girls confronting Orion

And Annie and Luna know. Penny and Alex have talked about it IIRC, but it might be that one of them didn't realize what they were discussing.

 

[briansanders]

And Annie and Luna know. Penny and Alex have talked about it IIRC, but it might be that one of them didn't realize what they were discussing.

Only Luna knows it ig because of that premonition not sure about how Annie knows it

 

[someoneyouknow2452]

Nova and Nancy already know it. Alex and Dalia are definitely gonna find out. Alex wanted to talk about the apartment sex with Dalia a while back and was also ok with sharing Orion and in the last update when Orion finally had sex with Dalia, she was pretty excited and wanted to tell about it to Alex asap It would be funny if the next episode ends with all the girls confronting Orion

Alex and Dalia are best friends but still haven't talked about it officially. Dalia straight up lied to Alex about the Island blowjob Alex looks to have figured things out tho, she's no dummy after all. There is a small hint in the last episode that Dalia knows something as well after her sex scene.

Penny and Nova are "besties" but they haven't talked either. Penny joked about sharing but that's all.

IMHO this can't go on for much longer but I trust Caribdis with this one. He has shown with Eternum that he has learned every single lesson from his previous game and improved, well, everything.

 

[e6mill]

Only Luna knows it ig because of that premonition not sure about how Annie knows it

IDK how, but she says she's OK with all of them during this date night convo.

 

[someoneyouknow2452]

IDK how, but she says she's OK with all of them during this date night convo.
View attachment 5086905

She has seen how the other girls are looking at Orion and acting around him. I mean really, girls (especially girlfriends) are kinda sensitive to that stuff you know That's how Alex, Dalia and Penny would have figured out something's up as well because no one has told them anything so far (that we've seen). Oh and Nancy and Nova too before Orion confirmed it to them. Nancy being the most perceptive of the bunch figured it out first, no surprise there.

 

[danb35]

I made some mistake concerning Dalia and lost her.

...and it's things like that that make me think that at least some of it is "gameplay" as opposed to "you don't have to be with a LI you don't like." Some of the decisions are fairly obvious--if you don't talk with Annie after her first scene, that closes off her route. But Dalia's first off-ramp is to not peep on her in the bathroom. Peeping on her kicking her off her route I get; not peeping, not so much.

 

[Rehwyn]

There is only one game I can think of that did totally different endings for different girls and even combinations of girls and it is a MUCH shorter game that Eternum. (Not gonna name it here so don't ask for it)

If you're talking about the game I think you are, I'd like to add that doing those endings took 18 months, over 7,000 renders, and over 300 animations. It truly was a massive amount of work. And they definitely are not doing that many endings for their next game.

Considering our average Eternum update is about 1,200 to 1,600 renders, I agree there's no way we're getting endings with that many full variations unless we want to wait years for it.

...and it's things like that that make me think that at least some of it is "gameplay" as opposed to "you don't have to be with a LI you don't like." Some of the decisions are fairly obvious--if you don't talk with Annie after her first scene, that closes off her route. But Dalia's first off-ramp is to not peep on her in the bathroom. Peeping on her kicking her off her route I get; not peeping, not so much.

Choices like this feel a bit like artifacts from earlier AVNs and Japanese dating VNs where tiny, sometimes unintuitive choices can completely derail you for "replayability". Personally, I can't be arse'd to deal with that and just use a walkthrough for AVNs like that. Thankfully, these types of "gotcha" choices are much less common in newer AVNs, I've found.

 

[ruby_rubicon]

... But Dalia's first off-ramp is to not peep on her in the bathroom. Peeping on her kicking her off her route I get; not peeping, not so much.

Ugh, I had forgotten about that! Only way to start a romantic relationship with a driven woman is... being a creep!

 

[gusta]

thank you