Others Fall:Out [v0.7.0 Beta] [Dvoika Games]

[Tirael]

Some news from developers

ABOUT EVERYTHING

Greetings. We haven't been here in a while, and you probably thought something happened to us. Well, it's not far from the truth, and it's not good enough. The last month threw on us a whole bunch of personal problems and when it seemed that everything was over, life caught up with us to give a new kick in the ass. Unfortunately, in such a rhythm it was very difficult to allocate time for work on the game or even reading your comments. This is not an excuse, though we are happy to work on this project, but so far it is only a hobby and there are more important things in our lives.
So, if you're still reading this, we have some good news for you too. Probably some of you have already guessed from the picture, so we will not pull - we have purchased the Spine license. Actually we had planned something like that only to the fourth goal, but working on events it became apparent that only static images and shaking from side to side is not enought to do so as we want to see. Well, we have only begun to explore it and what we did on the second day can be seen

You must be registered to see the links

. With this program we can do great things, if we master it at the proper level.

The main question is, when is the next update finally? In fact, large unfinished things left not so much, but every little thing that you probably won't even notice takes a lot of time and effort. For example, we slightly changed the contour of the character's face, and if you pay attention to the logo on our page or the bust of Natasha in the description, you will notice that they differ from what is in your game now. And this little edit requires replacing dozens of images. So, what's the timing? To be honest, it is doubtful that we will have time before the end of the month, especially if we take a close look at the new animations, so it is much more likely that this will be the first week of April.

In the next couple of days, we'll try to respond to all the messages you've sent us. Thank you for reading this wall of the text.

 

[Gutsandguts]

What's this Spine thing? Some sort of programming tool?
You can tell I'm in the know.

Sad to hear they're having issues but the way they word it, it sounds fairly genuine rather than "Hold on while we take needlessly long so that we get more money"

 

[Nottravis]

What's this Spine thing? Some sort of programming tool?
You can tell I'm in the know.

Sad to hear they're having issues but the way they word it, it sounds fairly genuine rather than "Hold on while we take needlessly long so that we get more money"

Spine basically allows for some fairly neat animation tricks. The little link they included in their post is well worth clicking on...

And agreed. Given the quality of what they have produced so far - and the size of the updates when they do - I still trust them.

 

[droglob]

Some news from developers

ABOUT EVERYTHING

Greetings. We haven't been here in a while, and you probably thought something happened to us. Well, it's not far from the truth, and it's not good enough. The last month threw on us a whole bunch of personal problems and when it seemed that everything was over, life caught up with us to give a new kick in the ass. Unfortunately, in such a rhythm it was very difficult to allocate time for work on the game or even reading your comments. This is not an excuse, though we are happy to work on this project, but so far it is only a hobby and there are more important things in our lives.
So, if you're still reading this, we have some good news for you too. Probably some of you have already guessed from the picture, so we will not pull - we have purchased the Spine license. Actually we had planned something like that only to the fourth goal, but working on events it became apparent that only static images and shaking from side to side is not enought to do so as we want to see. Well, we have only begun to explore it and what we did on the second day can be seen

You must be registered to see the links

. With this program we can do great things, if we master it at the proper level.

The main question is, when is the next update finally? In fact, large unfinished things left not so much, but every little thing that you probably won't even notice takes a lot of time and effort. For example, we slightly changed the contour of the character's face, and if you pay attention to the logo on our page or the bust of Natasha in the description, you will notice that they differ from what is in your game now. And this little edit requires replacing dozens of images. So, what's the timing? To be honest, it is doubtful that we will have time before the end of the month, especially if we take a close look at the new animations, so it is much more likely that this will be the first week of April.

In the next couple of days, we'll try to respond to all the messages you've sent us. Thank you for reading this wall of the text.

Man, WEG devs really are the most unlucky people on the planet. There's always something stopping them from working hard on their pre paid projects like they so desperately yearn to.

 

[Tirael]

Fresh one

Well, while we're working on a new version, we have a little present for you. This is a personal "FaceGen 3000", in which you will be able to simulate for Natasha different facial expressions.

You must be registered to see the links

Also, for all who are interested in the version of the game for mobile devices. In order to properly port the game, we need to fix the game art and events, change the code to adapt the current structure to different aspect ratio of the display. As well we have to do a great resource optimization to reduce the size of the game files, rewrite code to include new packed resources.

We are moving in this direction, but there is a lot of work.

 

[DoctorSnow]

Well we're now half a year in since initial release and we're on essentially version 1.5. I mean 2.0 isnt fully fleshed out until 'gamma' release which looks like it will be a while until even after 6 months in. The delay was supposedly because of something like 'they didnt see christmas coming' which I don't know if anyone else has heard of a calendar, but its hardly a time of year that moves very often. That was probably harsh, I understand they have personal stuff they probably don't feel like releasing, but the communication has been awful. I may be bashing a bit but I wouldn't be so angry if I didnt love the game so much, what we got in first release was epic, had just the right atmosphere, and I feel with the constant delay and anticipation its physically impossible to live up to expectations, the longer you wait for something the 'better it needs to be' and after a while that just gets impossible. I hope to God they find their footing soon and get the hang of things, if not I don't think this game will be finished by the time I die. Not that I want it to end, I love it so much I wish there was infinite of it, but you get my point. Getting an excuse and a tease once a month is hardly keeping my erection up and I'm not sure where to go from here. If anyone has a cryopod let me know. And I know quality over quantity but surely there must be a balance, I dont think waiting 3 years for something "as long as its good" is justified, considering it will never be 3 years worth of good. Even a months work on these kind of games consists of maybe a scene or 2. Which is about 5-10 minutes gameplay, if you read fast. Anyway, rant-over; gonna go cry and pray to the h-Gods.

 

[Gutsandguts]

Well we're now half a year in since initial release and we're on essentially version 1.5. I mean 2.0 isnt fully fleshed out until 'gamma' release which looks like it will be a while until even after 6 months in. The delay was supposedly because of something like 'they didnt see christmas coming' which I don't know if anyone else has heard of a calendar, but its hardly a time of year that moves very often. That was probably harsh, I understand they have personal stuff they probably don't feel like releasing, but the communication has been awful. I may be bashing a bit but I wouldn't be so angry if I didnt love the game so much, what we got in first release was epic, had just the right atmosphere, and I feel with the constant delay and anticipation its physically impossible to live up to expectations, the longer you wait for something the 'better it needs to be' and after a while that just gets impossible. I hope to God they find their footing soon and get the hang of things, if not I don't think this game will be finished by the time I die. Not that I want it to end, I love it so much I wish there was infinite of it, but you get my point. Getting an excuse and a tease once a month is hardly keeping my erection up and I'm not sure where to go from here. If anyone has a cryopod let me know. And I know quality over quantity but surely there must be a balance, I dont think waiting 3 years for something "as long as its good" is justified, considering it will never be 3 years worth of good. Even a months work on these kind of games consists of maybe a scene or 2. Which is about 5-10 minutes gameplay, if you read fast. Anyway, rant-over; gonna go cry and pray to the h-Gods.

Honestly I don't even mind, of course I'd like an update every month but the first two releases were solid for being the first two.

I am so tired of games that take three months to release a 0.05 that adds one new scene, 3 pictures, a bunch incidental dialogue and a horde of bugs and that's what most games in development seem to do these days.
Issues two versions in don't bother me, if it's like this for years then yeah something is wrong there but this project is still relatively new whereas others stagnate for like four years and barely any even get to a 0.5 release.
It's their first proper game so it'll take a while for them to get the "flow" down. So far it's not perfect but it's certainly better than most.

 

[Carmine]

Any news about the game?
He said "so it is much more likely that this will be the first week of April" in one of his last posts on Patreon

 

[DoctorSnow]

Any news about the game?
He said "so it is much more likely that this will be the first week of April" in one of his last posts on Patreon

Chances are we'll hear another excuse/apology or hopefully an actual update in some time between next week and the end of the month I reckon. It could be sooner it could be later, by that point we'll know from there, I highly doubt it'll be released in the next week, if we dont hear anything until the end of the month we could get a surprise release. But considering we dont hear anything who knows. Just take that as a guideline and be pleasantly surprised if its early, or not surprised at all if its delayed again. And hopefully..... it'll will be released asap!

If you want more information you could go on their patreon, take a note of their update history and work out a rough estimate of when the next update would be. But in a week - the end of the month seems pretty accurate anyway. Good luck distracting yourself until the release! <3


EDIT: Nevermind

You must be registered to see the links

. Still, nothings changed really. But some nice to know info

 

[Gutsandguts]

I realize groundwork for a mobile version should be laid early but I kinda wish they wouldn't focus resources for that, I mean, is there much demand? How many people play porn games on Android?

Surely not nearly as many as PC? Seems pointless to me unless you live with family and need to be secretive. But whatever.
I just hope it doesn't take too much time away from making the main parts of the game.

 

[Mahgni Mada]

It's starting to get a little ridiculous now to be honest. If you have any doubts about making the deadline, don't set it, 3 times they've done this now, I wish they would just release what they have already no matter how big or small it is, just release something.

 

[Cipheos]

Man, WEG devs really are the most unlucky people on the planet. There's always something stopping them from working hard on their pre paid projects like they so desperately yearn to.

I think it's pretty sad to see how upset people are getting over this. Granted, they really don't handle the whole "deadline" thing well. But honestly, what do you expect for half minimum wage. They can't really operate like a business until they make at least $4000 a month per head. And then it still won't be a goldmine, and they still won't have any guarantees.

Right now, I am upset and disappointed with Y&N for how we handle planning and PR. Many people must be thinking the same thing about us. But at the same time I know they are barely getting by with what is in fact half of minimum wage. While for me our project has only cost me money for nearly a year now, not to mention the hundreds of hours I've spent on it. Their problems are a bit more serious than: "Oh shit is christmas that thing at the end of the year where you have to spend time with your family?"

All creators appreciate their supporters, and feel a responsibility to meet their expectations. But at the same time we all still have to work 8 hours a day because we don't make nearly enough money to be self-employed. Think about it, Dvoika currently make a "whopping" $14,640 per year. Now imagine that being the operating income of a game development company with two employees... What you might not realize is that they would also have to cover equipment, licenses and a mountain of other costs, forget about risk management.

Frankly, if yall want to justifiedly bitch and moan, I'd suggest you help Dvoika quadrupel their support. Either that or save some energy for DarkCookie, whose monthly support is nearly twice my annual sallary as a software engineer. I literally can't remember when the last significant Summertime Saga update came out, it'd better be worth the $150,000 or so.

But if you are really looking for an explanation WHY every single developer on Patreon gets in to trouble after their game
"takes off". My best guess is that they thought they could quit their jobs for $1,200 a month, and found out that in practise is not nearly enough to sustain two families ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[DoctorSnow]

I think it's pretty sad to see how upset people are getting over this. Granted, they really don't handle the whole "deadline" thing well. But honestly, what do you expect for half minimum wage. They can't really operate like a business until they make at least $4000 a month per head. And then it still won't be a goldmine, and they still won't have any guarantees.

Right now, I am upset and disappointed with Y&N for how we handle planning and PR. Many people must be thinking the same thing about us. But at the same time I know they are barely getting by with what is in fact half of minimum wage. While for me our project has only cost me money for nearly a year now, not to mention the hundreds of hours I've spent on it. Their problems are a bit more serious than: "Oh shit is christmas that thing at the end of the year where you have to spend time with your family?"

All creators appreciate their supporters, and feel a responsibility to meet their expectations. But at the same time we all still have to work 8 hours a day because we don't make nearly enough money to be self-employed. Think about it, Dvoika currently make a "whopping" $14,640 per year. Now imagine that being the operating income of a game development company with two employees... What you might not realize is that they would also have to cover equipment, licenses and a mountain of other costs, forget about risk management.

Frankly, if yall want to justifiedly bitch and moan, I'd suggest you help Dvoika quadrupel their support. Either that or save some energy for DarkCookie, whose monthly support is nearly twice my annual sallary as a software engineer. I literally can't remember when the last significant Summertime Saga update came out, it'd better be worth the $150,000 or so.

But if you are really looking for an explanation WHY every single developer on Patreon gets in to trouble after their game
"takes off". My best guess is that they thought they could quit their jobs for $1,200 a month, and found out that in practise is not nearly enough to sustain two families ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I know you said significant, but I still find this ironic

You must be registered to see the links

.
I'd also like to point out perhaps game devs/people in general, shouldn't leap straight into things because something is better than it seemed. But then again it's not my place to tell others how to live their lives. I just believe you should be that responsible when you have a following. They seem to be very keen on actually 'finishing' their updates or just making sure they were ready and enough, but I think they're aiming a bit high for what they can handle, sure I like ready updates, I like a release full of new and complete content, but if the sacrifice is waiting 6+ months for it? I'd rather a slightly buggy slightly less empty version thanks. Maybe thats just me, but I've always believed that if you dont like monthly releases, you could always just download the 6th monthly release in a row or some system like that. You'd get the same effect and people who do like monthly releases are also happy.

I really admire their ambition but their goal seems to drag them in way over their heads and maybe they should take things a bit slower (irony) and not aim so high. Dead lines are called dead lines for a reason, even if they're more like guide lines, if you can't meet them, something was wrong, you could say you set the dead line too early, or maybe you just tried to achieve too much in too little time. I'd love to hear everyones thoughts to know what kind of balance a perfect game dev would be, but I personally believe there's more often than not a way to make everyone happy, you just need to widen your perspective to see it. I personally have never donated them money, and it's not because I dont like what they do, I love their game too much!!! But it's because they're unreliable. I'm not sure I could get what I paid for, and sure that's not quite the right mind set for "supporting" something you love, but until I see further proof it just seems like we already bought the game and the rest is just promises.

To put it simply, the first release shouldve given us a clue, they were like the game itself, filled with plenty of teases, but nothing actually went anywhere, thanks to subsequent release"s" (thats a laugh) we saw a little bit of a something going somewhere. They too have given us plenty of teases and lots of excuses but not much genuine deliveries. But maybe that's just the way I both see and value things, maybe its just one of those cases where I will never truly appreciate what they do because I love what they do too much. I 100% admire how every game developer must spend hours a day of their lives on this content and dont get too much to show for it, but as far as I know, no one made them become a game dev, and they /should/ have known what they were getting into. That doesn't make it their fault that they didn't know, but it does make it their responsibility to deliver, and if they fail on that, that is their fault. Excluding major life changing events obviously. Rant over~ still love this game, love to hear what everyone else has to say

EDIT: I'd also like to point out minimum wage differs in other countries as well as prices for other things, like housing or food. It's a bit of a hard argument to make so do bear that in mind. But I do understand what you mean and I too think DarkCookie is highly overpaid LOL

 

[PoEbalu]

they've been making it mobile for the past 3 motnhs...what the actual fuck ?
isntead of making the game for what it soupostta be a PC game,they making it for mobiles AND browser(online)
it's more like they making random shit instead of making the game. realy,why complacte things so much ?
mobile ? who give a shit ? porn game on a mobile,don't make me laught. i rather play it on PC in 1080p where no1 will hear me fappin' than 10x10 pixel display in public where i cant rub my dick.
browser ? really ? not enough complication in game development as it is ? or 3 months without updates is OK ?
also,who gives a shit ?

 

[DoctorSnow]

they've been making it mobile for the past 3 motnhs...what the actual fuck ?
isntead of making the game for what it soupostta be a PC game,they making it for mobiles AND browser(online)
it's more like they making random shit instead of making the game. realy,why complacte things so much ?
mobile ? who give a shit ? porn game on a mobile,don't make me laught. i rather play it on PC in 1080p where no1 will hear me fappin' than 10x10 pixel display in public where i cant rub my dick.
browser ? really ? not enough complication in game development as it is ? or 3 months without updates is OK ?
also,who gives a shit ?

Like one of their latest posts about the FaceGen 3000. When that came out I thought "Who actually asked for this, and oh god no have they seriously been working on this instead of the game?" I hope it didnt take long to make because that is time wasted as far as I'm concerned. I think they were just practicing and then released it but, if not....

 

[julkul]

"but now that the basic mechanics of the game added, we will be able to concentrate on the content and release it often."

They said this in december yet here we are over 3 months later with no updates. They said the next update would be released on the first week of april and yet here we are, they didn't even care to elaborate what happened in the latest patreon post. Taking a long time to do updates is fine, not keeping people in the loop isn't. Lets just hope the next update is a substantial one (if there even is a next update) and it was worth the wait.

 

[Cipheos]

Like one of their latest posts about the FaceGen 3000. When that came out I thought "Who actually asked for this, and oh god no have they seriously been working on this instead of the game?" I hope it didnt take long to make because that is time wasted as far as I'm concerned. I think they were just practicing and then released it but, if not....

It's likely because the developer is looking for shit to do while the artist is working their ass off. Frankly you need at least three artists for every developer afaik.

they've been making it mobile for the past 3 motnhs...what the actual fuck ?
isntead of making the game for what it soupostta be a PC game,they making it for mobiles AND browser(online)
it's more like they making random shit instead of making the game. realy,why complacte things so much ?
mobile ? who give a shit ? porn game on a mobile,don't make me laught. i rather play it on PC in 1080p where no1 will hear me fappin' than 10x10 pixel display in public where i cant rub my dick.
browser ? really ? not enough complication in game development as it is ? or 3 months without updates is OK ?
also,who gives a shit ?

For some reason even though we DO NOT support the largest mobile platform for the only country in the world which gives a shit about our game, a whopping 40% of our players are mobile. And yea I have no idea how to imagine that, I use PC myself, but the statistics don't lie. We definitely need that 40% to stay afloat.

I know you said significant, but I still find this ironic

You must be registered to see the links

.

Holy shit since when has 0.15 been out?! I'll finish this message after... Science... Kthxbai.

I'd also like to point out perhaps game devs/people in general, shouldn't leap straight into things because something is better than it seemed. But then again it's not my place to tell others how to live their lives. I just believe you should be that responsible when you have a following. They seem to be very keen on actually 'finishing' their updates or just making sure they were ready and enough, but I think they're aiming a bit high for what they can handle, sure I like ready updates, I like a release full of new and complete content, but if the sacrifice is waiting 6+ months for it? I'd rather a slightly buggy slightly less empty version thanks. Maybe thats just me, but I've always believed that if you dont like monthly releases, you could always just download the 6th monthly release in a row or some system like that. You'd get the same effect and people who do like monthly releases are also happy.

Naw man I completely agree. I guess the point is that when you are as big as DarkCookie, everyone only wants the update more after half a year. Still, they do pretty well on PR. Personally I try to push to make our updates as small as possible. The work speaks for itself right?

I really admire their ambition but their goal seems to drag them in way over their heads and maybe they should take things a bit slower (irony) and not aim so high. Dead lines are called dead lines for a reason, even if they're more like guide lines, if you can't meet them, something was wrong, you could say you set the dead line too early, or maybe you just tried to achieve too much in too little time. I'd love to hear everyones thoughts to know what kind of balance a perfect game dev would be, but I personally believe there's more often than not a way to make everyone happy, you just need to widen your perspective to see it. I personally have never donated them money, and it's not because I dont like what they do, I love their game too much!!! But it's because they're unreliable. I'm not sure I could get what I paid for, and sure that's not quite the right mind set for "supporting" something you love, but until I see further proof it just seems like we already bought the game and the rest is just promises.

It really isn't. You're not really paying for anything, just investing in free content. It's a significant and high risk investment with hardly any return. It's difficult if not impossible to predict which creator has got what it takes to meet your expectations, even when they have the skill. We all love doing what we do, and we'd gladly invest our free time. But frankly our free time is not that much. And I guess that is sort of the point, we have the skill and you all have the money to give us more time to do what we love and you all appreciate.

What is important to realize is that we are not big companies and we don't by far have the money to put someone on public relations or project management. So we are definitely going to lack in that department, and it's going to give you the wrong idea at one point or another. Though if anyone has any questions or doubts they are always more than welcome to ask us anything on our Discord. And I think that goes for most creators.

To put it simply, the first release shouldve given us a clue, they were like the game itself, filled with plenty of teases, but nothing actually went anywhere, thanks to subsequent release"s" (thats a laugh) we saw a little bit of a something going somewhere. They too have given us plenty of teases and lots of excuses but not much genuine deliveries. But maybe that's just the way I both see and value things, maybe its just one of those cases where I will never truly appreciate what they do because I love what they do too much. I 100% admire how every game developer must spend hours a day of their lives on this content and dont get too much to show for it, but as far as I know, no one made them become a game dev, and they /should/ have known what they were getting into. That doesn't make it their fault that they didn't know, but it does make it their responsibility to deliver, and if they fail on that, that is their fault. Excluding major life changing events obviously. Rant over~ still love this game, love to hear what everyone else has to say

EDIT: I'd also like to point out minimum wage differs in other countries as well as prices for other things, like housing or food. It's a bit of a hard argument to make so do bear that in mind. But I do understand what you mean and I too think DarkCookie is highly overpaid LOL

Well yea, actually we intend to start a game development company. I did all the math, we'd need DarkCookie money. I don't expect to get that from you guys, but it's just to put our end goal in perspective. I doubt we share the same goals with Dvoika and DarkCookie, we'll see.

We'd just like to stand on our own feet, to be able to answer to our customers. Because, unfortunately, we don't currently have a responsibility to deliver. At present I think both Dvoika and ourselves are delivering what we can afford to deliver.

My minimum wage standard is based on my own country. I don't think that's much of a hard argument to make. Imagine working 9 hours per day, 6 days a week, and then working all your free time on some game. Well we can't meet the expectations of people like you. Even if we can take a day off every week, because of your donations, we're not really close to meeting your expectations.

I don't think it's a hard argument to make, because yea all three of us could live off of $1200 a month in Afghanistan, but moving to Afghanistan would cost a lot of money... And well yea I love doing what I do and I'd love to spend more time on it, but if you want quality work I'm going to want to not live in Afghanistan if that's ok.

It's just going to be like that. And whether we could meet your expectations with all the money in the world... Well that's probably something no one will ever find out, because none of us are very likely to do as well as DarkCookie. So I guess I'd like to throw it back at you, because we just do what we love, and if you enjoy our work then you can help us achieve more. But you should know what you are getting in to when you support a creator, you're basically just giving someone money in good faith that they will turn it in to a bit of something you will enjoy.

It kind of sounds like you are saying: "Hey you knew most game developers get paid shit and are supposed to do the work of 8 people at once, so you'd better deliver the work of 8 people at once!" Which doesn't upset me, but it's still not going to happen even if we wanted to, it's just not possible. Honestly the best we could learn from this is to keep our supporters updated better, and to set more realistic goals. But in the end that will only take focus away from the project, so I doubt it will make us work any faster.

Also, we all need people to ask questions and make us think carefully about what we are doing. I wish you'd join our Discord tbh <3


Edit:

Taking a long time to do updates is fine, not keeping people in the loop isn't.

Honestly the most important business lesson right there.


Edit:
Summertime Saga is probably a shitshow because he didn't imagine it getting this big when he first set it up, so the codebase is probably questionable. I guess they have been reworking it, which takes a lot of time with nothing to show for it. But at a certain point it would be impossible to move forward otherwise. All I can guess is that from here on out it will be quality shit.

 

[Ragnar]

This game is ambitious, custom assets, nice 2D art plus animations, actual gameplay...I mean, some 3Daz VNs and rpgmaker walking simulators take several months hiatus between updates. So yep, don't expect monthly updates and you won't be dissapointed.

 

[Cipheos]

This game is ambitious, custom assets, nice 2D art plus animations, actual gameplay...I mean, some 3Daz VNs and rpgmaker walking simulators take several months hiatus between updates. So yep, don't expect monthly updates and you won't be dissapointed.

Yea I don't really get why there is such crazy support for DAZ 3D projects. I guess they can deliver in other aspects because they save A LOT of time on artwork.

ACTUALLY: Dvoika just got a Spine license!!! Don't underestimate that, their animations will be so much better thanks to Spine 2D. So hyped for the next update <3


Edit:
Plus, I have mad respect for their developer. This is honestly serious quality work

 

[DoctorSnow]

It's just going to be like that. And whether we could meet your expectations with all the money in the world... Well that's probably something no one will ever find out, because none of us are very likely to do as well as DarkCookie. So I guess I'd like to throw it back at you, because we just do what we love, and if you enjoy our work then you can help us achieve more. But you should know what you are getting in to when you support a creator, you're basically just giving someone money in good faith that they will turn it in to a bit of something you will enjoy.

It kind of sounds like you are saying: "Hey you knew most game developers get paid shit and are supposed to do the work of 8 people at once, so you'd better deliver the work of 8 people at once!" Which doesn't upset me, but it's still not going to happen even if we wanted to, it's just not possible. Honestly the best we could learn from this is to keep our supporters updated better, and to set more realistic goals. But in the end that will only take focus away from the project, so I doubt it will make us work any faster.

Also, we all need people to ask questions and make us think carefully about what we are doing. I wish you'd join our Discord tbh <3


Edit:

Honestly the most important business lesson right there.


Edit:
Summertime Saga is probably a shitshow because he didn't imagine it getting this big when he first set it up, so the codebase is probably questionable. I guess they have been reworking it, which takes a lot of time with nothing to show for it. But at a certain point it would be impossible to move forward otherwise. All I can guess is that from here on out it will be quality shit.

I hope to God that quote actually works. Idk how quotes work <3.
I'm sorry for the confusion but I did not mean that they should deliver the work of 8 people at once at all. But personally I just believe if you're gonna 'promise' me an update by april, it better be there by april and how can I trust you at all if you don't live up to that. If anything the rest is just my own paranoia, trust issues etc. I'm sure they do an absolutely awesome job, (but of course we don't really get to see that...) and I know what they're really doing BTS isn't just wanking the hours away (I hope) but more just future-proofing. Playing it safe, buying equipment they need long-term and can't really start until they have it. Yes I mean Spine, but who knows if they have other stuff, and I think the fact I don't know is an issue. Communication is key right? I can understand lots of people playing on mobile that's no surprise, but 40%? Wowie. You think people do both or something? It's like you were saying DarkCookie spent most of that time just rewriting what I would imagine to be spaghetti code. Unless I misunderstood that..

I just wish we got more information, and less excuses, julkul expressed disappointment in them not making up another excuse this time, but in fact that seems like a good thing to me, means they're going about the right path in giving us some useful information instead of another "sorry", and it was good information. Hopefully soon they might start giving us some info on whats actually happening game-wise. Progress updates and the like, I see now that I may have trust issues with them, but it might appear they have it with us too. Maybe I'm misinterpreting they're lack of communication though.

In reality they could do whatever they wanted, and you came across with it's basically fair for them to be lacking like this, and I disagree, I mean it's entirely justified I'm sure, but it just seems too early, and way way wayyy too late at the same time. It might just be that thing of how many 0.1 games get abandoned, and quite frankly this game feels abandoned all the time, but they haven't actually abandoned it. Now whether thats down to communication or just life in general I don't know. But it's not a nice feeling to have around a game/dev one loves.

<3