Others Finding Color in the Ashes [Alpha v2.30] [MooncatcherStudios]

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May 30, 2020
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i guess research is triggered by late night reading but i swear i did that before

and now scout just started talking to me

kinda odd

now my big ui ask for sc - please make clickable buttons look a little different from status boxes

rite now both passive display boxes and buttons have the same thin bevel and you gotta hover to see whats clickable

again said with great lust for the game
 
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acowasto

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Nov 6, 2017
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Hey thanks for the feedback!
I will say the game is in alpha, and lots of things need to be balanced. There's also still missing features and system reworks happening. A lot of them are on the roadmap. There will be a big balance pass once I'm out of Alpha and have a better idea of all the involved systems.

The Weird:
1. Weekends + weekday + time slot actions are the way they are for time management gameplay, not because its a simulation. While its all subject to balancing, and there will be more weekend actions coming, I'm not going to make it so you can whatever whenever.
2. Throwing up wards is a cool idea!
3. Stasis ritual is quite good, will probably be adjusted during balancing pass closer to / in beta.
4.Combat balancing is currently taking place, and the newest build does rebalance how companions work pretty substantially. Not done yet though.
5. Potions in combat are going to be reworked soon.

The Start:
1. Starting stats will get reworked at some point, the current intro is basically a placeholder. Plans to make it a little more involved, with opportunities to start with multiple dice in at least one skill.
3. Cellar is far from useless, but it's fine if you don't like the current balance. I'll keep adjusting things as development continues, but I don't think it's as dour as you make it out to be.

Mid Game:
1.Dryad is indeed a huge boon! I would say in the current balance getting her makes having food + booze much easier, but that's intended.
2.There are many players who say making money off soldiers is too hard, you say too easy- it can't be both. I tend to find, once you understand the balance, it's hardly a difficult game but it's not meant to be. That being said the balance will continue to be adjusted.
3.There is a Forvalaka POI at night, in the newer builds. Might be you either missed it or are using an older build?
4.For outposts you are paying the work crews to go out and build them. It's a gold sink, just like hiring adventurers, for the mid game.

Winter:
Anything after fall is heavily work in progress. Winter is being worked on right now but I wouldn't take anything there as final. Doubly so for spring.

I also think it bears keeping in mind the game is not supposed to be deathly hard, like, at all. It's mostly pretty cozy with a little bit of friction to keep things interesting. I'll probably include some difficulty options and optional content once I have a better idea of the project as a whole though. I still really appreciate hearing all this though, I like to know where the friction points are so I know what to prioritize in the updates.
The weird
1. I get it it's suppose to be a time management, but if during weekend I am low on wood or food but I can't chop some logs or even go for a hunt, it's pretty immersion breaking that MC and other companions prefer to freeze or be starving. Sometimes you have to work when you have to work.
3. I suppose Stasis requiring a higher initial mana amount to conjure and fading away at 10% strength per day(unless maintained with mana) should work well enough. That way it would still help with condition of the Inn, but not as to basically forget about it.
5. Potions by themselves are fine. Game just lacks the opportunity to actually use them properly in combat. If MC+Scout would have to fight 3 foes in a row and recovery could be only used once per day, having a potion or two to keep resources high would be good idea. Now, they are but for sale.

The Start
1. Good to know.
3. If your game is supposed to be a management I simply find it weird to be forced to build something I am barely using. Sitting for let's say... 4 weeks on a single barrel, until player can properly set up scout brewing stuff, is a waste of resources and time I could put to use into making a garden for example.

If MC managed to craft first barrel, he can make two more. I believe each slot in the cellar could be at least an additional storage capacity until additional barrels. Also I think scout should be the one increasing the quality, speed and even the amount of units per barrel, not the amout of barrels to be used. I feel like there is simply a too huge jump from the struggle to good performance, without much of the management in between.

Mid Game
1. Yes, Dryad is very good, but she's too good, even without all her perks. Mainly because she is increasing the amount of fields from 2 to 5. Which is the same problem as with cellar. It's more of waste of resources and time without a companion to manage it. And once it does it goes from "resources aid" to "resources pool" and when Dryad is fully developed, it's basically a "resources flood".

I managed to get her very quickly. And once she is in the garden, the hardship ends and making food and alcohol becomes trivial to a point of having all 5 slots waiting to be harvested and 3 barrels of wine to be opened.

2. The main problem of making money out of soldiers is inviting them. 20 food and 30 alcohol is a bit more than half of norrmal storage of fully upgraded inn. But I had Dryad and Scout already working at good enough efficiency. So my stock was actually something of 55 food + 30 food in garden and 55 alcohol + 66 in barrels, at any given time. Not to mention you can slightly overstock yourself in the weekend.

Also, having Lucy brewing potions in the evening is mandatory in this case. By giving her alchemical supplies, which are only worth 12 gold, and using only 20 stamina for 3 random potions is too good opportunity to not abuse it, to a point of having at least 5 of each potion ready to sell.

The money making part is simply selling those potions en masse. I haven't done the math, but using 12 gold to earn around 400 gold is rather good investment. Unless you roll military sappers, then it's selling materials for 40 gold, which isn't great, but it's not like I am using those material anyway.

The same thing can be done with regular adventurers, but soldiers come in group of 2 to 4. While adventurers may not come at all or you can get a single courier.

3. I can't seem to find it, so either I am blind or it is eariler version. I am leaning to the second one.

Winter
Good to know. But yeah, it's cozy.

I get it it's not supposed to a hard, but a chill game with management, but there can't be management wiithout some struggles and stuff to improve upon. And, like I pointed out in cellar and garden, it's too big of a jump from having aid to having resource pool. I had military resupplying me only two times, which was pretty unnecessary. I simply didn't bother to harvest food from the garden, since carvan was bound to be on the next day. Once you get well established dryad you get it all, food, alcohol and even weapons and armor. The only stuff to do is to patrol around and train MC.

Anyway, you do great job. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother to even write those two walls of text.

PS.
Outposts.
Again, why I am the one paying for outposts constructions when they are military ones? I can help the military to secure the area, as they wanted. Not to fund it for them.
 
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Soulcatch

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The weird
1. I get it it's suppose to be a time management, but if during weekend I am low on wood or food but I can't chop some logs or even go for a hunt, it's pretty immersion breaking that MC and other companions prefer to freeze or be starving. Sometimes you have to work when you have to work.
3. I suppose Stasis requiring a higher initial mana amount to conjure and fading away at 10% strength per day(unless maintained with mana) should work well enough. That way it would still help with condition of the Inn, but not as to basically forget about it.
5. Potions by themselves are fine. Game just lacks the opportunity to actually use them properly in combat. If MC+Scout would have to fight 3 foes in a row and recovery could be only used once per day, having a potion or two to keep resources high would be good idea. Now, they are but for sale.

The Start
1. Good to know.
3. If your game is supposed to be a management I simply find it weird to be forced to build something I am barely using. Sitting for let's say... 4 weeks on a single barrel, until player can properly set up scout brewing stuff, is a waste of resources and time I could put to use into making a garden for example.

If MC managed to craft first barrel, he can make two more. I believe each slot in the cellar could be at least an additional storage capacity until additional barrels. Also I think scout should be the one increasing the quality, speed and even the amount of units per barrel, not the amout of barrels to be used. I feel like there is simply a too huge jump from the struggle to good performance, without much of the management in between.

Mid Game
1. Yes, Dryad is very good, but she's too good, even without all her perks. Mainly because she is increasing the amount of fields from 2 to 5. Which is the same problem as with cellar. It's more of waste of resources and time without a companion to manage it. And once it does it goes from "resources aid" to "resources pool" and when Dryad is fully developed, it's basically a "resources flood".

I managed to get her very quickly. And once she is in the garden, the hardship ends and making food and alcohol becomes trivial to a point of having all 5 slots waiting to be harvested and 3 barrels of wine to be opened.

2. The main problem of making money out of soldiers is inviting them. 20 food and 30 alcohol is a bit more than half of norrmal storage of fully upgraded inn. But I had Dryad and Scout already working at good enough efficiency. So my stock was actually something of 55 food + 30 food in garden and 55 alcohol + 66 in barrels, at any given time. Not to mention you can slightly overstock yourself in the weekend.

Also, having Lucy brewing potions in the evening is mandatory in this case. By giving her alchemical supplies, which are only worth 12 gold, and using only 20 stamina for 3 random potions is too good opportunity to not abuse it, to a point of having at least 5 of each potion ready to sell.

The money making part is simply selling those potions en masse. I haven't done the math, but using 12 gold to earn around 400 gold is rather good investment. Unless you roll military sappers, then it's selling materials for 40 gold, which isn't great, but it's not like I am using those material anyway.

The same thing can be done with regular adventurers, but soldiers come in group of 2 to 4. While adventurers may not come at all or you can get a single courier.

3. I can't seem to find it, so either I am blind or it is eariler version. I am leaning to the second one.

Winter
Good to know. But yeah, it's cozy.

I get it it's not supposed to a hard, but a chill game with management, but there can't be management wiithout some struggles and stuff to improve upon. And, like I pointed out in cellar and garden, it's too big of a jump from having aid to having resource pool. I had military resupplying me only two times, which was pretty unnecessary. I simply didn't bother to harvest food from the garden, since carvan was bound to be on the next day. Once you get well established dryad you get it all, food, alcohol and even weapons and armor. The only stuff to do is to patrol around and train MC.

Anyway, you do great job. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother to even write those two walls of text.

PS.
Outposts.
Again, why I am the one paying for outposts constructions when they are military ones? I can help the military to secure the area, as they wanted. Not to fund it for them.
Hey no worries, again I mean it when I say I appreciate the feedback. Sometimes I might not agree with specific points or how to tackle them, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in fixing the friction or smoothing out the experience, I just want to be honest about my thoughts + intentions.

A lot of what you're saying isn't wrong, and I think it'll get smoothed out with balancing and better UI + tutorials + signposting. A big thing right now is that I have some major systems to get in place for winter + spring (guild management specifically) which are going to have their own economy. I don't want to go super hard into balancing the numbers right now just to have to do it again in a month. Yes it's pretty uneven right now, but its still fun and pretty playable as is in the mean time.

Once I get the winter + spring systems done, it will very much be time to look at the progression over the game as a whole and start tweaking. Things like the exact numbers for how much the garden / cellar make, how many resources the soldiers use etc. During development I kinda go with some mini-economies depending on what area I'm developing and where the content ends. Right now content ends around the end of fall, so what's there is just basically meant to be make summer + fall fun to play (however uneven).

The outposts will keep costing gold (first one will stay free) but I can signpost better why. The gameplay reason is simple, I want them to cost gold because its a gold sink. I can still do a better job justifying it. Things like potions in combat are getting a big rebalance, because they need to be more useful and they haven't been looked at for over a year and the game was quite different at that point.

Thanks again!
 

etoedene

New Member
Jan 7, 2024
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Can we get a little "cheat sheet" for what exactly was added? I understand that it's better to play yourself, but i've downloaded the new version and i have no idea what the new scene with scout is, i cant really trigger it, nor can i trigger the event. I guess it has to do with the outpost...
I also have 3 researches i cant really... research (well, because i dont meet the requirement for them, duh), but i would want to get them? How? Just press stuff randomly until i trigger it? That's no fun. At least put something vague like "You should probably map out the *area*"... And i have no idea how to get starsteel nor do i know what to do with the half-key thing.
Other than that - great game, keep up the good work man.
 
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Soulcatch

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Sep 28, 2023
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Can we get a little "cheat sheet" for what exactly was added? I understand that it's better to play yourself, but i've downloaded the new version and i have no idea what the new scene with scout is, i cant really trigger it, nor can i trigger the event. I guess it has to do with the outpost...
I also have 3 researches i cant really... research (well, because i dont meet the requirement for them, duh), but i would want to get them? How? Just press stuff randomly until i trigger it? That's no fun. At least put something vague like "You should probably map out the *area*"... And i have no idea how to get starsteel nor do i know what to do with the half-key thing.
Other than that - great game, keep up the good work man.
The key does nothing yet, but the three new researches are tied to POIs found by exploring the map. One in the hills, one in the ruins, and one in deep woods. You'll need to map those areas. New events are sprinkled throughout and are almost always tied to progressing character affinities and stories, or tied to specific times of the year.
 
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etoedene

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Jan 7, 2024
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Oooh, okay then, thanks.
I've already guessed the POI part (took me long enough to understand that it means "point of interest").
But i do think that the specific time of the year thing is somewhat... meh, i'm on day 400 something and i'll have to skip 200 something days if the event is on the opposite side of the year? Either way, thanks for the reply man, i'll go do the thing now.
 

Soulcatch

Member
Game Developer
Sep 28, 2023
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Oooh, okay then, thanks.
I've already guessed the POI part (took me long enough to understand that it means "point of interest").
But i do think that the specific time of the year thing is somewhat... meh, i'm on day 400 something and i'll have to skip 200 something days if the event is on the opposite side of the year? Either way, thanks for the reply man, i'll go do the thing now.
Sorry I'll be less vague. Anything past early winter is essentially work in progress. I think day 220 or so is the last time something is time gated. Otherwise events are tied to character affinity, inn restoration, choices, etc. Theres nothing you'd have to go through another 200 days for.
 

acowasto

Active Member
Nov 6, 2017
600
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Hey no worries, again I mean it when I say I appreciate the feedback. Sometimes I might not agree with specific points or how to tackle them, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in fixing the friction or smoothing out the experience, I just want to be honest about my thoughts + intentions.

A lot of what you're saying isn't wrong, and I think it'll get smoothed out with balancing and better UI + tutorials + signposting. A big thing right now is that I have some major systems to get in place for winter + spring (guild management specifically) which are going to have their own economy. I don't want to go super hard into balancing the numbers right now just to have to do it again in a month. Yes it's pretty uneven right now, but its still fun and pretty playable as is in the mean time.

Once I get the winter + spring systems done, it will very much be time to look at the progression over the game as a whole and start tweaking. Things like the exact numbers for how much the garden / cellar make, how many resources the soldiers use etc. During development I kinda go with some mini-economies depending on what area I'm developing and where the content ends. Right now content ends around the end of fall, so what's there is just basically meant to be make summer + fall fun to play (however uneven).

The outposts will keep costing gold (first one will stay free) but I can signpost better why. The gameplay reason is simple, I want them to cost gold because its a gold sink. I can still do a better job justifying it. Things like potions in combat are getting a big rebalance, because they need to be more useful and they haven't been looked at for over a year and the game was quite different at that point.

Thanks again!
That's pretty understandable then. To balance everything now would be a huge waste of your time.
By the way, I found that POI you wrote about. I was spamming night patrol with scout so much the area it was supposed to appear was constantly over 50% danger, so that POI of that dangerous kitty never had a chance to appear in the first place.
 
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Jaspion

Member
Apr 29, 2017
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One idea is multiple difficulties, like story mode where you get like 20 to 30% more gold, enemies are 50% weaker and so. Normal is normal. And a difficult mode, stronger enemies, weak enemies stop spawning faster, get less gold and resources. One thing i always see in games is people complaining about how hard it is and multiple difficulties can mitigate that. It's more work so i won't say the "has" to have it, but you should consider.

I'd say the inn condition is very annoying until you get stasis then it's free. It gets down too fast in the beginning since fixing gets you a + 1 or 2 in condition than you lose 1 in the day. There is no real penalty (perhaps you get less gold but whatever). Perhaps making the in condition more stable, like it's 0% chance to degrade without getting customers and you get a 10% chance to decrease per room occupied). I just leave it alone in the start.
 
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lewdman89

Newbie
Jan 13, 2018
57
108
60
I'm coming back to this game from v1.40, will old saves work? Also do season events like the soldiers recur or are they one off? I remember there was some special weapons you could by while you were housing them
 

U'm$@UPj

Newbie
Dec 11, 2022
30
34
36
One idea is multiple difficulties
I'm curious, why would this game need multiple difficulties when there is no lose condition (neither directly by a game over or indirectly by trapping the player into an endless loop they cannot escape)?
If there is a mechanic that troubles a player it can be ignored until the player feels ready to give it another try by upgrading stats or other events.
If someone wants to fully immerse themselves into the management RP and keep every stat happy they can do so as well.
If someone wants to MinMax that's also already possible.

I'm asking because creating multiple difficulties basically means the Dev needs to QA each difficulty, and that most likely multiple times. He's already at game day ~220 (according to a previous post) so this would be a massive undertaking. But what would it actually improve? I fear this would just occupy too much of the Dev's time for a problem that doesn't exist imo.
 

Soulcatch

Member
Game Developer
Sep 28, 2023
222
427
149
I'm curious, why would this game need multiple difficulties when there is no lose condition (neither directly by a game over or indirectly by trapping the player into an endless loop they cannot escape)?
If there is a mechanic that troubles a player it can be ignored until the player feels ready to give it another try by upgrading stats or other events.
If someone wants to fully immerse themselves into the management RP and keep every stat happy they can do so as well.
If someone wants to MinMax that's also already possible.

I'm asking because creating multiple difficulties basically means the Dev needs to QA each difficulty, and that most likely multiple times. He's already at game day ~220 (according to a previous post) so this would be a massive undertaking. But what would it actually improve? I fear this would just occupy too much of the Dev's time for a problem that doesn't exist imo.
Fair question. Honestly I have no interest in doing difficulties in the sense of adjusting enemy stats or rebalancing the entire game. If I were to implement some difficulty (or difficulty adjacent options) it would most likely come down to changing the resources / abilities that a run starts with. A little extra gold, better starting stats, equipment etc can go a long way to making the whole experience easier. I've also seen a few people ask for a sorta sandbox mode (which essentially amounts to the same thing, lots of resources to remove the stress of management).

But the exact implementation will ultimately depend on the state of the game once I get the core systems implemented and start balancing. Maybe multiple difficulties will matter a lot less once I have tutorials and better sign posting in there, maybe people will still be asking for them. I'll evaluate at that point.

I won't be taking on anything that'll drastically increase development time though, already have enough to do.
 

Jaspion

Member
Apr 29, 2017
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I was just reacting to another post, i dont care about multiple difficulties. The game is very fun right now, very chill. There is no pressure and you can go at your own pace. And if it's a lot work then it's probably not worth it. Difficulty is always something that people will complain about. Too hard, too easy and so on.
 

impernable

Newbie
Jun 28, 2023
49
53
151
Started playing this the other day and I'm really liking it so far! I only just got up to Autumn and the management sim is surprisingly engaging and there's just enough to worry about without it getting overwhelming.

The art and aesthetic are good too, really liking the minimalist monochrome with pops of colour.

The one thing I will say though is I wish there were more events with Lucy around the romantic parts. I am still early(ish?) into the game so I'm assuming there's more but just stuff like it felt like there should have been more fanfare around sleeping with her for the first time (and the other stuff you do with her). Just pre or post events around that or even you both sleeping in the same bed instead of "I'm out of orgasms now, see you tomorrow". Also sex sounds would be nice but I ask that of every game.

All in all though, having fun, really liking the game, will write a proper review once I get through it.
 
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