Others Finding Color in the Ashes [Alpha v2.41] [MooncatcherStudios]

[promesteinn]

btw this how my game looks like at day 291 (spring)

i cant see icons beside fishing and mining, i hope its because others are extreme danger and not a bug
my save is fresh from this update

okay: for icons it was really about danger status, i did patrols for a week and they show up now but dwarf still didnt appeared

 

[random2141]

Can you be more specific? I've never encountered this. Is it during an event? Regular dialog? Can you get me a screenshot? This seems like it might be more of a system problem. What are you playing on?

I'm playing on Mac, through wine (not an official platform, I know), so it might be specific to that... but it's weird, because I never saw the error until this version, and now it's making the game unplayable. Attaching an error of what it looks like after a freeze (it always repeats the dialogue twice, then dialogue disappears)

 

[Soulcatch]

btw this how my game looks like at day 291 (spring)
View attachment 5253730 View attachment 5253731 View attachment 5253732
i cant see icons beside fishing and mining, i hope its because others are extreme danger and not a bug
my save is fresh from this update

okay: for icons it was really about danger status, i did patrols for a week and they show up now but dwarf still didnt appeared

Yeah if danger increases past 50 in an area you can't interact with the POIs there until you reduce the danger ago. In those screenshots it looks like you haven't hired Ellie or Willow yet - this might be the reason Ailis' options aren't there. I'll look into that.

I'm playing on Mac, through wine (not an official platform, I know), so it might be specific to that... but it's weird, because I never saw the error until this version, and now it's making the game unplayable. Attaching an error of what it looks like after a freeze (it always repeats the dialogue twice, then dialogue disappears)

View attachment 5253793

Yeah I have no way to support mac at the moment, but that being said, the error you're encountered sounds a lot like one I just fixed in 2.21. Are you using spacebar to progress the text by chance? There was a nasty bug introduced by one of Godot's point releases that I didn't catch right away, using spacebar instead of left clicking to progress dialog was clearing dialog queues and could cause all sorts of soft locking.

 

[klckr]

Are all the higher level guests supposed to give so little profit?

For example the rookie party takes 2 food supplies and pays 35G. Almost 9X profit while taking up only one room.
A monster extermination squad takes 8 food, 4 alcohol and pays 85G. Measly 3X profit while taking 4 (!) rooms and a huge chunk of my maximum supplies.
Seems a bit wonky to me especially it is already a lot harder to accommodate them. Like progression is somewhat reversed.

Just a thought but maybe show how it is calculated and give a multiplier for guest class/level. Like, (20G(two rooms)+10G(three food)+20G(4 Alcohol))*1.2(guest class)=60G. This would retain the increased difficulty of keeping your stock filled and reward you for being able to cater to better guests. Additionally you could do a multiplier for the condition of the inn, like a small tip if the condition is higher than the guests require.

Maybe you can up the complexity by having guests that want to stay multiple nights? Would give it a more depth, do I want to accept this shitty guest for two days and risk not having space for better guests tomorrow. Might be hard to implement considering how far along the project is, I don't know.


Also, why is sometimes one of the dice green?
Is it intended for 1 unit of grain worth 20G to be converted into 1 unit of food worth 2G? Baking bread is damn expensive yo.

Good luck with your project, I enjoyed it so far!

 

[tacosgrande]

Having trouble activating Scout... I seem to recall something with Night Reading but that doesn't seem to be triggering anything after once she noticed that Lucy is fractured.

Also!
Army is visiting > check on guests > Army infantry
There is an option to sell them Bitter Tea, but despite having Bitter Tea in my inventory I can't sell it.

I only have 1 - does it require a minimum of 2?

 

[random2141]

Are you using spacebar to progress the text by chance? There was a nasty bug introduced by one of Godot's point releases that I didn't catch right away, using spacebar instead of left clicking to progress dialog was clearing dialog queues and could cause all sorts of soft locking.

Thanks! This was indeed it!

BTW, the game does work fine on Mac through wine; if you ever decide to port it over, it shouldn't be much hassle at all.

 

[random2141]

I can't seem to meet the elf anymore in this version (and it's already fall). I don't see an icon on the map for her. Am I missing something?

 

[Soulcatch]

I can't seem to meet the elf anymore in this version (and it's already fall). I don't see an icon on the map for her. Am I missing something?

Make sure you are in patrol mode (not hunting / gathering) and the danger in the area is below 50.

Having trouble activating Scout... I seem to recall something with Night Reading but that doesn't seem to be triggering anything after once she noticed that Lucy is fractured.

Also!
Army is visiting > check on guests > Army infantry
There is an option to sell them Bitter Tea, but despite having Bitter Tea in my inventory I can't sell it.

I only have 1 - does it require a minimum of 2?

You do need 2 teas. Scout's missions require you to have the tower unlocked, night reading, and to have encountered the undead. You then need to spend time researching the undead, or talking to scout at night after clicking on reading.

Are all the higher level guests supposed to give so little profit?

For example the rookie party takes 2 food supplies and pays 35G. Almost 9X profit while taking up only one room.
A monster extermination squad takes 8 food, 4 alcohol and pays 85G. Measly 3X profit while taking 4 (!) rooms and a huge chunk of my maximum supplies.
Seems a bit wonky to me especially it is already a lot harder to accommodate them. Like progression is somewhat reversed.

Just a thought but maybe show how it is calculated and give a multiplier for guest class/level. Like, (20G(two rooms)+10G(three food)+20G(4 Alcohol))*1.2(guest class)=60G. This would retain the increased difficulty of keeping your stock filled and reward you for being able to cater to better guests. Additionally you could do a multiplier for the condition of the inn, like a small tip if the condition is higher than the guests require.

Maybe you can up the complexity by having guests that want to stay multiple nights? Would give it a more depth, do I want to accept this shitty guest for two days and risk not having space for better guests tomorrow. Might be hard to implement considering how far along the project is, I don't know.

View attachment 5254344
Also, why is sometimes one of the dice green?
Is it intended for 1 unit of grain worth 20G to be converted into 1 unit of food worth 2G? Baking bread is damn expensive yo.

Good luck with your project, I enjoyed it so far!

Green dice are free dice added by abilities.

All guests profits scale with resources spent. You 2 gold per food, 5 gold per alcohol, and 6 gold per room. You then get a bonus based on the level of the inn and a penalty based on the condition of the inn. Additionally better guests buy more expensive potions and let you make A LOT more money off of them (150 or 200g per potion instead of 30-70). Once your inn gets going it becomes very easy to get the resources needed to house guests.

That being said, balance is not final and I'll continue to adjust until release.

If you are curious about the exact math, this is it:


as for turning 20g of grain into 2g of food - that is a super valid complaint. The intent in a broad sense is that you should be keeping yourself properly stocked and only processing your ingredients as a last ditch resort. But the system is a bit underbaked as is and it was always intended that I would revisit it. No way for you to know that though, so I hear you.

 

[random2141]

Make sure you are in patrol mode (not hunting / gathering) and the danger in the area is below 50.

Danger in every area is below 50. I'm in patrol mode, and don't see any icons. What area should I be looking in? (Maybe I'm just blind?)

EDIT: oh, I just didn't have the right area unlocked. I think I met the elf now.

 

[promesteinn]

Yeah if danger increases past 50 in an area you can't interact with the POIs there until you reduce the danger ago. In those screenshots it looks like you haven't hired Ellie or Willow yet - this might be the reason Ailis' options aren't there. I'll look into that.

This was in fact the case, after interacting with Willow there wasnt anything but when Ellie also got added to crew Ailis appeared in the interact with companions thing. So basically if noone besides scout isnt in the party, Ailis is still encounterable in winter because story but due to others being missing she doesnt get added to the menu. Now my game works perfectly thank you.

By the way, army in the fall was nice are you planning similar things for other seasons? i already miss them

 

[Soulcatch]

This was in fact the case, after interacting with Willow there wasnt anything but when Ellie also got added to crew Ailis appeared in the interact with companions thing. So basically if noone besides scout isnt in the party, Ailis is still encounterable in winter because story but due to others being missing she doesnt get added to the menu. Now my game works perfectly thank you.

By the way, army in the fall was nice are you planning similar things for other seasons? i already miss them

Awesome, thanks for confirming I can get that fixed for sure.
Winter is going to be a little lonelier, the focus will be on encounters and bosses in the forest. Spring will be much more NPC filled - the inn will transition into a guild hall where you handle job boards and adventuring parties. The game will enter a proper endless mode at that point.

 

[TheWillofD]

Having the Forvalaka fight be rare, alongside not get the claw drop everytime is kind of wild. Very grindy. Also think when you have the entire map opened up it can be obnoxious to get danger down on them. Maybe something in the skill tree or some kind of perk to help with that. Managing danger in the 7 regions is tough at the rate it goes up + scout night trips raising the danger. Maybe if you win a fight instead of fleeing it lowers the danger as well instead of just patrolling.

 

[Soulcatch]

Having the Forvalaka fight be rare, alongside not get the claw drop everytime is kind of wild. Very grindy. Also think when you have the entire map opened up it can be obnoxious to get danger down on them. Maybe something in the skill tree or some kind of perk to help with that. Managing danger in the 7 regions is tough at the rate it goes up + scout night trips raising the danger. Maybe if you win a fight instead of fleeing it lowers the danger as well instead of just patrolling.

Yeah its just an unfinished system. You'll have the option to hire adventurers to clear out areas for you soon. The whole patrol map and it's POIs were only introduced 2 patches ago so its basically just the foundation of the system. It'll get more fleshed out and filled with content soon.

 

[tacosgrande]

You do need 2 teas. Scout's missions require you to have the tower unlocked, night reading, and to have encountered the undead. You then need to spend time researching the undead, or talking to scout at night after clicking on reading.

Within a minute of you posting this, I encountered Scout, and it was immediately after the undead. So good news, it's working as intended!

When on a mission with Scout, if you click the "Hunt and Gather" button it seems to force a day change or something. Specifically, I had been working on befriending Willow (still indicated as "Dryad") and when I clicked Hunt and Gather, the option to visit her appeared and it brought up a different dialog box with Lucy talking about what we have to do with the heart tree seed.

 

[random2141]

Do Forvalakas show up in winter? It was 1 out of every 3 night patrol fights in fall for me, but I only got 4 claws, and now I'm 20 days into winter without seeing a single one (just undeads and dryads)

 

[klckr]

All guests profits scale with resources spent. You 2 gold per food, 5 gold per alcohol, and 6 gold per room. You then get a bonus based on the level of the inn and a penalty based on the condition of the inn. Additionally better guests buy more expensive potions and let you make A LOT more money off of them (150 or 200g per potion instead of 30-70). Once your inn gets going it becomes very easy to get the resources needed to house guests.

That being said, balance is not final and I'll continue to adjust until release.

If you are curious about the exact math, this is it:
View attachment 5255261

as for turning 20g of grain into 2g of food - that is a super valid complaint. The intent in a broad sense is that you should be keeping yourself properly stocked and only processing your ingredients as a last ditch resort. But the system is a bit underbaked as is and it was always intended that I would revisit it. No way for you to know that though, so I hear you.

Thank you for clarifying.

I think my perceived problem with this would be the bonuses being additions instead of multipliers. Here relative profit mostly depends on the amount of food/drink/rooms being as small as possible, this disparity increases with leveling up the inn and bigger orders, also guests ordering no alcohol would even still net the (level*1.2) alcohol bonus.
So, if someone would order 1000 food you would be selling it for 2003 gold at level three (3 gold profit) while an order for 1 food sells for 5 gold (also 3 gold profit).
My suggestion would be to rewrite it to multiplicative bonuses something like pay+=(needs_food*2)*(1+level/10). This way your earnings steadily go up 10% each level and advanced guests would be better because you can fill up your rooms quickly. You could even do a pay+=(needs_food*2)*(1.1^level) for exponential growth.

Also, the condition penalty seems to be netting positive: In game my level three example; the two food, one room adventurers net me 35, without calculating condition penalty this should be 4+3.3+0+3.6+6+4.5=21.4. If that is all there is it seems the room bonus gets multiplied about 4 times by the condition penalty.

TBH I haven't bothered with selling potions yet as I was focused more on repair and procurement, so maybe your intention is to shift profit away from running the inn and towards selling potions and i'm just playing it wrong.

 

[tacosgrande]

Do Forvalakas show up in winter? It was 1 out of every 3 night patrol fights in fall for me, but I only got 4 claws, and now I'm 20 days into winter without seeing a single one (just undeads and dryads)

I am also experiencing this problem. Testing to see if I need to let the danger level increase first.

 

[Soulcatch]

Thank you for clarifying.

I think my perceived problem with this would be the bonuses being additions instead of multipliers. Here relative profit mostly depends on the amount of food/drink/rooms being as small as possible, this disparity increases with leveling up the inn and bigger orders, also guests ordering no alcohol would even still net the (level*1.2) alcohol bonus.
So, if someone would order 1000 food you would be selling it for 2003 gold at level three (3 gold profit) while an order for 1 food sells for 5 gold (also 3 gold profit).
My suggestion would be to rewrite it to multiplicative bonuses something like pay+=(needs_food*2)*(1+level/10). This way your earnings steadily go up 10% each level and advanced guests would be better because you can fill up your rooms quickly. You could even do a pay+=(needs_food*2)*(1.1^level) for exponential growth.

Also, the condition penalty seems to be netting positive: In game my level three example; the two food, one room adventurers net me 35, without calculating condition penalty this should be 4+3.3+0+3.6+6+4.5=21.4. If that is all there is it seems the room bonus gets multiplied about 4 times by the condition penalty.

TBH I haven't bothered with selling potions yet as I was focused more on repair and procurement, so maybe your intention is to shift profit away from running the inn and towards selling potions and i'm just playing it wrong.

Potions are where most of the profit is. If you are regularly selling potions you will not hurt for money. It's okay if you don't like the exact math, it's not final - but even so, without any changes, you will never be hurting for money in the current balance if you are selling potions (and other goods once the army shows up).

I am also experiencing this problem. Testing to see if I need to let the danger level increase first.

The Forvalaka + star tower are very placeholder right now. I added a lot of content all at once with the patrol patch, so not all of it is fully baked. The next patch will have a hunting grounds allowing you to force the encounter, as well as some other goodies.

 

[tacosgrande]

Potions are where most of the profit is. If you are regularly selling potions you will not hurt for money. It's okay if you don't like the exact math, it's not final - but even so, without any changes, you will never be hurting for money in the current balance if you are selling potions (and other goods once the army shows up).



The Forvalaka + star tower are very placeholder right now. I added a lot of content all at once with the patrol patch, so not all of it is fully baked. The next patch will have a hunting grounds allowing you to force the encounter, as well as some other goodies.

Cool, I'm here for it!

I also liked the additional bonus gear you can get when the Army is around. Was that in previous versions?

 

[durahar]

Game has been amazing so far. Usually don't post about some problems I've noticed, but it's good and I want to see it better.

* When game is in fall and the army is around, I got to like negative 20 gold somehow; I think I bartered with soldiers and it let me.

* once you have low/no gold game is basically stuck until Winter in the fall, there is very little ways to get money since I had only the first upgrade to rooms and they were all filled with soldiers so I can't get any customers to give gold. Since I had no gold, I couldn't buy any provisions from the quartermaster. The shop in the fall doesn't buy my potions or reagents so I can't make money. I was stuck cutting wood and getting food for most of fall lest I freeze or use conjured food.
-> the above point could be fixed by making the weekend shops be able to buy my potions, reagents, and/or the soldier barter option to take some of the player items for money instead of just money for items

* In the current endgame, the danger rises a bit much and I basically can't access the points of interest unless I know what I'm looking for and dedicate multiple days to lower the threat for an area. I can handle 2 or 3 areas from scouting, but once there were more, the majority of the map will be dangerous.