Ren'Py Four Elements Trainer [v1.1.6b] [Mity]
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Well, can't say we didn't see that coming. Crazy idea - what if MITY took the $20,000 they're making per month to hire another coder?... but that would mean they'd each make a little under 100K a year and idk if they could survive on such a small salary...
You can't always just hire another coder and be done with it. From what I've read (on here) from people who want to make mods for the game, the code is pretty messy. You would have to hire another coder, hope the original coder isn't pissed about it, bring the second coder up to speed on what is happening in the code (which could take a few months), get both coders in sync with each other on how they're going to do all this, and then after maybe 6 months you now have two people working on messy code. This also introduces the possibility of increased bugs as even though the coders are now working together, they're also working separately. Each one has the possiblity of making new bugs.
Balrog
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- Jan 10, 2018
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The code being messy mean that you'll need another coder anyway at one point unless you're lucky enough for your game to end before the code crumble on itself, hiring more guys was always a necessary step and the longer it takes, the more painful the transition will be, like ripping of a band aid.
Obviously bloating your team is also an issue but MITY isn't really at risk of that just by taking a backup artist and a backup coder.
FlipFish
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- Oct 23, 2017
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Well the Book 4 slave route still needs to finish and then there's the love route which is usually longer than the slave route. I think Mity plans to do one last thing after the Book 4 love route ends, probably a final route that ties everything together. So if anything the code will probably get messier depending on what Mity wants to implement.
I don't know the coder so I can't say anything about him or whatever his circumstances may be, but from a project management standpoint Mity should probably start looking for a new coder. It's sounds easier than it is but it's the better alternative than to let the project implode due to various issues regarding the current coder and the game's code.
I don't know the coder so I can't say anything about him or whatever his circumstances may be, but from a project management standpoint Mity should probably start looking for a new coder. It's sounds easier than it is but it's the better alternative than to let the project implode due to various issues regarding the current coder and the game's code.
Or, you could just have the guy fixing old content. Or you could hire someone to work on minigames that are completely separate from the main codebase. Or you could hire a writer. Or you could commission work from another artist without even having to hire them. Or you could employ a sound guy. Or you could get a dedicated beta tester. Or you could...
I'm not saying Mity shouldn't hire more help on; I'm saying that just hiring another coder isn't going to fix the problems FET has. Honestly, I'd kill for Mity to hire out an artist while he working on the writing.
Sure it would take some time to get up to speed. But it would keep something like this from happening in the future. As of now if the coder quit that's the end of the game.
Even with the coding. I mean literally just hire a guy to go through the old code and add a replay system. Pay him 500 bucks, make sure he tests the fuck out of it for 3 months, add "we now have a gallery menu" as an unexpected surprise in the February update. If it turns out to be buggy or unfeasible in the end then whatever, you lost 500 bucks on an investment while the other guy was busy doing the update and someone else coded a minigame. Fucking big whoop.
That's another thing, "getting up to speed" doesn't mean that you have to make the old coder babysit the new guy 24/7 for 5 months until he understands how to do anything. Seriously, do an intro to Python course and look through the code yourself, it's not dark magic. A more realistic scenario would be that you could hire someone who's willing to familiarize themselves with the code in their own time, do some work for a minimal amount of money as a trial run, have their changes approved and then come on as a full member 3-4 months later. For instance, RIGHT NOW you could have someone who's been "training" themselves since August while the coder was taking a break. Those 4 months you need? They have already PASSED.
Exactly. Those months are gone. MITY could have been proactive about it. Instead they got 80K for one consolation update.... I mean, can't say I blame the guy. Free money is always nice.
Zantei
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- Sep 22, 2018
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The god awful spaghetti code wouldn't be an issue if the project was handled properly from the beginning. Should've broken off book 4 into a separate game kind of like a lot of games do with breaking up chapters. That way they wouldn't have to continue building onto the spaghetti code from Books 1-3. And that would've also been the best time to hire a new coder. It was just handled very poorly and it's starting to really show.
Alright, just to drive this point home.
This is what the code for Books 1&2 looks like in the last Azula update from 2017, and how it's changed since then. Filenames that are colored red are the ones that had their content modified, black are the ones where everything is identical line by line.
You may notice that there aren't any, because both versions are, in fact, the same fucking thing. The code for Book 1 hasn't been touched or "built on" since Book 1 was finished. Same with Book 2, same with Book 3. And I mean to a ridiculous extent, the current game flow is basically "run the standard example project script.rpy which contains the intro and ALL OF BOOK 1, but there's a map screen injected into the middle of it which lets you jump to the other 3 books instead of finishing it".
And this is what FET looks like if you take all of the code and assets for the first three books, and just fucking YEET THEM OUT OF the game entirely:
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You may notice that it looks like the same fucking thing, because none of the books reference any of the previous code and Ren'Py doesn't give the tiniest of shits if something isn't there.
BUT WAIT
THERE'S MORE
This is what the Python code for Book 4 looks like (the part that isn't just linear dialogue or image names), the portion that takes MONTHS to familiarize yourself with, the hurdle any new coder on the team would have to get over, the leviathan task no man can hope to overcome, THE ABSOLUTE MOUNTAIN OF
it's two files
No seriously, it's two files. That's it. Everything else is either file paths, the dialogue, or basic VN stuff. Here's what the map system looks like:
Impressed? Check out the day/night system, then.
ARE YOU FEELING THE WEIGHT YET
TO BEAR SUCH AN UNIMAGINABLE BURDEN
FOR ONE MAN TO UNDERSTAND THIS IN A MERE FIVE MON... you get the idea.
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Bonus cherry on top:
This is what the code for the rest of the game (books 1-3) looks like. You may notice that everything is haphazardly thrown into a single folder with basically no care given to organization. I imagine things started to get a bit confusing around book 3's development, so he started to prepend filenames with bk3_ to differentiate them and actually be able to tell what belongs where. Then finally, for Book 4, things get their own dedicated folder.
Your first thought would probably be something along the lines of "well yeah but he didn't know that at first, and you'd have to change everything now and risk breaking the code so it's better to just leave it there". Except... Ren'Py doesn't care about that. Code doesn't HAVE a direct path, there isn't an
So why didn't he just do that? Well, because...
because...
...because he just never really like... thought... to do that. For three years. And he still hasn't.
Cherry on top #2: Why has there been a .zip file with code from an ancient version of the game included in the final build for the last 4-5 updates now?
Because he just... left it there. And hasn't really bothered to check what files are in the project or what goes into a build. For a year.
This is what the code for the rest of the game (books 1-3) looks like. You may notice that everything is haphazardly thrown into a single folder with basically no care given to organization. I imagine things started to get a bit confusing around book 3's development, so he started to prepend filenames with bk3_ to differentiate them and actually be able to tell what belongs where. Then finally, for Book 4, things get their own dedicated folder.
Your first thought would probably be something along the lines of "well yeah but he didn't know that at first, and you'd have to change everything now and risk breaking the code so it's better to just leave it there". Except... Ren'Py doesn't care about that. Code doesn't HAVE a direct path, there isn't an
import "../scripts/bk3_file.rpy" statement, all it understands are labels and screens. There's an actual "priority order" you can set for script blocks if you want them to execute in a certain order, because Ren'Py loads everything from everywhere during startup. You can rename files at will or move them into any folder at any point. Seriously try it, take all the Book 2 scripts and move them into a directory named "asfsgfs" or copy and paste everything into a single giant .rpy file, everything will continue to work exactly as it did before.So why didn't he just do that? Well, because...
because...
...because he just never really like... thought... to do that. For three years. And he still hasn't.
Cherry on top #2: Why has there been a .zip file with code from an ancient version of the game included in the final build for the last 4-5 updates now?
Because he just... left it there. And hasn't really bothered to check what files are in the project or what goes into a build. For a year.
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Zantei
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It starts to get out of hand when you only have 2 people working on stuff. The work just piles on everything becomes cluttered and they start to get burned out. Again they should've just made book 4 a separate thing like other games do with chapter releases. That way they could've had a nice clean start with no left overs and maybe hire another coder so that they don't have to go through backlogs of code just to figure out what the fuck is going on.
Zantei
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- Sep 22, 2018
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Book 4 is definitely not a separate thing, but okay the coding for book 4 isn't connected to anything else in the game. So why would hiring a new coder be an issue? From what you're saying a new coder wouldn't have to go through all of the old code when they first started Book 4. Am I misinterpreting what you're saying or..?
Who could under go such a task? It simply cannot be done. The amount of time it would take someone to learn this code just isn't worth it, it's just better to have the coder do it himself and work himself to death. You people just don't understand just how complex this code is /s