VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch.1 Remake v0.25] [NeonGhosts]

[armond]

Just wondering how many people are playing the darkest route.

I bet a tenner that most of them are writing in this thread.

I have a save for every rout and some where I mix it up by being really nice to some and really mean to others

 

[soldano]

Yes, but then there wouldn't be game for you folks, right? So the most sensible option for some characters is to somewhat take them off the story. It's an easy math.

Also yes, it's a game, and the dev wants to play out a semi-realistic story within the context of this product being an AVN. So, get over it, I guess? It's his story, there's plenty of other games where you do this sort of stuff with zero consequences.

And I wonder, what does it matter to you how others play? The game allows you to play however you want. That's what this game has over others. Don't you want to be bad? Don't be. But don't demand that the designer screw up the fun for everyone else.
Play as you want, and you won't even find out that you can be evil without consequences.

 

[soldano]

I have a save for every rout and some where I mix it up by being really nice to some and really mean to others

Indeed. I have three gameplays. In one I'm scum in which I'm as evil as I can be. And I wish the game would let me stay that way without being punished too much.
In another I'm good with all the girls, but I focus especially on Nicki.
And in the main gameplay, I'm nice to some girls, mean to others, and have some of them financially blackmailed/dominated.

And that's the great thing about this game, and I hope they don't kill that. You can make choices however you want, and you can do it on each girl independently. Do actions need to have consequences? Clear. But having the girls you're mean to disappear from the game is no fun. And yes, it makes narrative sense for it to be that way. And it would make even more sense if you were reported to the police. But this is still a game, not real life, not even a novel. It's a porn game. If you take the girls out of the equation, it's not fun. Viola isn't a character I'm particularly interested in, but there might be a player who likes to be mean to her. If she disappears from your life, as much sense as it makes, you kill the fun for that player. Not a good design decision, frankly.

 

[Ragnar]

Ashe 100% got raped in the alley in dark route.


Ashe could do the same (go to police I mean). More easily I would argue since her life situation isn't as dire as Viola's. But, I guess Viola is far more vulnerable and meek than Ashe, mentally. Based on what Neon has said, that seems to be the major difference that has dictated their dark routes.


I trust where you're taking your game of course even though I'd have my own preferences Although, given that we were teased with anal grape, my evil MC definitely feels like there's some unfinished business...


Oh, I see. Well, Gabby definitely doesn't look 8, whereas Maya does, so you had me super confused lol. Gabby looks no younger than ~15-16 to me, definitely not a child's body. But, back in my college days, there were definitely a number of girls that looked very young, yet were of legal age, so... she could just as easily be an 18-2# year-old woman as well. Fair enough, though, to each their own as you've said.

Obviously this isn't your argument, but it reminds me of the noticeable increase of people these days who are hyper-sensitive to any kind of youth. Like... to the extent that some people call 18 year olds children. I respect their intentions, we don't want our young people to be taken advantage of and 18 year-olds are still certainly young and are certainly taken advantage of (porn industry..), but at the same time, I have to give my head a very thorough scratch in response to viewing them as children.


No dark route enthusiasts here are asking for Viola to be up for it, obviously that would defeat the point of the dark route. I think people just weren't expecting the consequences to happen so soon and were hoping for at least a few more scenes, especially given that Nicki's and Ashe's dark routes continuing are also a bit of a stretch. I guess we just figured Viola's would be as well, but would continue nonetheless. I'm a little sad about it, but I'm also always open to the author's vision for their game, so I'm up for w/e is thrown my way, especially since I'm a freeloader.

Also, regarding plenty of games with rape content, there really isn't Or at least there aren't any well-made ones. Every time I've searched, all I come across is dumpster fire trash. This game truly is a gem in that, not only is there well-written normal wholesome romance/corruption content that we all recognize, but there's horrific stuff in it too! And that, too, is well-written! It's not at all cartoonish or stupid or totally lacking in depth, which is usually the case with the super hardcore content on this site. If there really are other great games with content that is just as dark and just as well-executed, I'd love for people to PM me them, because I definitely haven't found them. Closest I've come is Raptus, but that's not ideal for me either (no offense to the dev, it's a good game though). Desert Stalker definitely has heavy dom content that you could argue approaches sexual assault here and there, but it just doesn't remotely come close to the tone of this game's dark route imo (if any of you haven't played Desert Stalker, btw, go play it; one of the best games on this site by far).

Yeah, in the dark route you can just rape Ashe but in the corruption one is more like blackmail. Viola corruption is not even blackmail, just grooming. I was comparing Ashe's blackmail with Viola's rape.
I'm not against rape or any other extreme content as long as we can choose what to do. The corruption routes are good for an evil Guy but some of the dark ones come a bit over the top imo.
Like for example Viola dark route. It's the middle of the day in a shopping street and the dude goes and rapes a cashier in broad daylight. That kind of shit ends with mugshots of the dude in the night news

 

[Master of Puppets]

No dark route enthusiasts here are asking for Viola to be up for it, obviously that would defeat the point of the dark route.

I don't think it would be bad for one of his victims to react by breaking and becoming a hardcore masochist. Obviously all of them doing that is highly implausible, but one of them reacting in an unusual way? That kind of reaction is hardly impossible, and characters reacting in different ways is at least as realistic as them all reacting the most common way. Is Viola the best choice for who to do that? I don't know, one could say that as she appears to need to stay with him for story reasons, Nicki might be a better choice.

 

[Mr. Muscles]

And I wonder, what does it matter to you how others play? The game allows you to play however you want. That's what this game has over others. Don't you want to be bad? Don't be. But don't demand that the designer screw up the fun for everyone else.
Play as you want, and you won't even find out that you can be evil without consequences.

It doesn't bother me at all, you're just making things up now. All I said is that this is how the story is being told by the dev and you just have to deal with it. It's not a hard thing to comprehend.

 

[NeonGhosts]

Also, regarding plenty of games with rape content, there really isn't Or at least there aren't any well-made ones. Every time I've searched, all I come across is dumpster fire trash. This game truly is a gem in that, not only is there well-written normal wholesome romance/corruption content that we all recognize, but there's horrific stuff in it too! And that, too, is well-written! It's not at all cartoonish or stupid or totally lacking in depth, which is usually the case with the super hardcore content on this site. If there really are other great games with content that is just as dark and just as well-executed, I'd love for people to PM me them, because I definitely haven't found them. Closest I've come is Raptus, but that's not ideal for me either (no offense to the dev, it's a good game though). Desert Stalker definitely has heavy dom content that you could argue approaches sexual assault here and there, but it just doesn't remotely come close to the tone of this game's dark route imo (if any of you haven't played Desert Stalker, btw, go play it; one of the best games on this site by far).

To be honest, playing other devs' games kind of convinced me how not to handle some of the dark content in FiN. There's a reason that the devs that do double (and triple and quadruple and quint..) down on the dark content just become interminable misery porn slogs. That's a large part of why I want to avoid it.

I think there's also a reason those type of games tend to get abandoned. After a while, where do you go with it? All that's left is greater acts of degeneracy. That's not a story, it's just boner fuel.

None of this is new, by the way. I've been saying this since literally the beginning, but the darkest routes just aren't very interesting to write.

"Aieee!"

"Aouwww!"

"Eeeeee!"

There's not a lot of meat on that bone, and it basically goes to the same place for everyone. Do I try to add some variation (within the bounds of sense and logic)? Yes. See: Pepper. But 90% of the time, that route ends with the character in abject fear of MC, and doing everything they can to avoid him.

Conversely -- the corruption routes? Ton of fun to write.

Nicki - free-use fuck-buddy who waffles between enjoying it and getting pissed at MC, based on his treatment.

Gabby - reluctant sugar-baby who could come around on the benefits of the arrangement, provided MC makes it worth her while.

Ashe - furious plaything that's nonetheless has MC propping up her career in the face of a hostile boss.

On and on. All of these give the love interests more agency, and are therefore just way more fun to write. There's a level of back-and-forth that is just at odds with the absolute domination inherent to the dark path. And there's still plenty of opportunities for forceful interactions.

Plus, to reiterate: There is a practical side to this. I think some people may really be discounting the amount of effort it takes for me to do 3-4 routes for everyone, over the course of the game. It's rough, dudes! The newest update would probably be done by now, if I wasn't dicking around with doing multiple routes for Ashe.

I should honestly just shut up about future game developments, because I doubt anyone actually playing the game over the next few updates would even realize certain girls had begun to disappear.

 

[soldano]

It doesn't bother me at all, you're just making things up now. All I said is that this is how the story is being told by the dev and you just have to deal with it. It's not a hard thing to comprehend.

You don't have to be condescending and rude either. Things like "It's an easy math", or "It's not a hard thing to comprehend" don't add anything.

Now, about the game. If the developer wants to remove Viola, or anyone else from the dark path. Even all the girls. It's up to him. But I am of the opinion that to excessively punish the dark path is to kill it. And that's why I said don't over-punish bad behavior. But obviously it's his game, and his story. I don't think anyone would dispute that.


And then, regarding what is realistic and what is not, I am going to explain an anecdote.

In my first script for television, there was a birth that lasted almost the entire episode. The first thing the director did was change that so it didn't last more than a few minutes. When I went to ask him for an explanation, he asked me what an hour and a half birth full of shit and blood brought to the story. I told him that this is how real births usually are. And he told me something that stayed with me all my career: "Maybe it's realistic, but it's not television."

In fiction there are things that can be more realistic, that can make more sense in real life, but that damage the final product.

What would be realistic in this game is that one of the girls you rape calls the police and they put you in jail. But doing that means game over. With good judgment the designer has not done that. But if he starts punishing the player for being evil, he will be killing the evil way. And that will hurt the game. Simply that. Then do what you want, of course. But that's my two cents.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

I think there's also a reason those type of games tend to get abandoned. After a while, where do you go with it? All that's left is greater acts of degeneracy. That's not a story, it's just boner fuel.

This is one of the trickiest parts of writing porn. Unfortunately for the majority of us as men, a large part of titillation/sexual desire comes from "doing the forbidden" or revealing more and more. But this has a limited half-life, once you see a girl topless, you wanna see her bottomless, and once you see her naked, there's nowhere left to go. Similarly, once you see her giving a HJ, you wanna see her giving a BJ, then you wanna see her having sex, then you wanna see her having rough sex, what's next? Gangbangs?

I've brainstormed the only way around this to keep things fresh (aside from having a rotating door of new characters) would be to have some sort of internal cooldown system, where if you take things too far, then that LI resets back to only wanting to do the most sexually innocuous things.

Also, another thing that can help extend gameplay in this respect is to heighten the contrast between different LIs and their sexual behaviors. I'm likely in the minority here, but I like it when 1-2 LIs have a swinging/sharing route(but i hate pure ntr), then others are completely romantic and singularly devoted. This gives players a wide variety of options for multiple playthroughs and intensifies the experience with any given LI; LI #1 being sweet and romantic carries much more weight if LI #2 is all about crazy promiscuous sex parties and vice versa.

Oh, I see. Well, Gabby definitely doesn't look 8, whereas Maya does, so you had me super confused lol. Gabby looks no younger than ~15-16 to me, definitely not a child's body. But, back in my college days, there were definitely a number of girls that looked very young, yet were of legal age, so... she could just as easily be an 18-2# year-old woman as well. Fair enough, though, to each their own as you've said.

Obviously this isn't your argument, but it reminds me of the noticeable increase of people these days who are hyper-sensitive to any kind of youth. Like... to the extent that some people call 18 year olds children. I respect their intentions, we don't want our young people to be taken advantage of and 18 year-olds are still certainly young and are certainly taken advantage of (porn industry..), but at the same time, I have to give my head a very thorough scratch in response to viewing them as children.

Oh yea, that's fair, and I wouldnt call myself the hyper-sensitive type towards youth; if we're being intellectually honest, most men desire a very youthful appearance. Having said that, there's more than a few games that slap the female characters with braces and flat chests then justify it as a "youthful attraction" and this to me is where I draw the line. It's less so much a strict legal definition but more "Regardless of age, do they look like a sexually mature female; do they have boobs and curves or do they have a child's body?", and I'd agree Gabby passes this, she's just not to my personal tastes.

 

[Mr. Muscles]

You don't have to be condescending and rude either. Things like "It's an easy math", or "It's not a hard thing to comprehend" don't add anything.

To be fair, you were already making things up about what I said, so eventually patience runs out.

My main point remains, the dev has already explained how he's going to approach his story, and it makes a whole lot of sense. You're arguing with me about something the dev opted to. I don't choose anything here, but I do think the dev's approach is the ideal one considering the tone of the game.

 

[TigerWolfe]

Oh, I see. Well, Gabby definitely doesn't look 8, whereas Maya does, so you had me super confused lol. Gabby looks no younger than ~15-16 to me, definitely not a child's body. But, back in my college days, there were definitely a number of girls that looked very young, yet were of legal age, so... she could just as easily be an 18-2# year-old woman as well. Fair enough, though, to each their own as you've said.

Obviously this isn't your argument, but it reminds me of the noticeable increase of people these days who are hyper-sensitive to any kind of youth. Like... to the extent that some people call 18 year olds children. I respect their intentions, we don't want our young people to be taken advantage of and 18 year-olds are still certainly young and are certainly taken advantage of (porn industry..), but at the same time, I have to give my head a very thorough scratch in response to viewing them as children.

Personally as a 35 year old with a teen child, 18 yos generally look like children to me. I would not pursue one irl.

Scientifically we've learned that our brains are still developing until either 23 or 25 iirc, so there's a decent basis to still consider them children, even if legally that's not the case.

 

[TigerWolfe]

And I wonder, what does it matter to you how others play? The game allows you to play however you want. That's what this game has over others. Don't you want to be bad? Don't be. But don't demand that the designer screw up the fun for everyone else.
Play as you want, and you won't even find out that you can be evil without consequences.

Dev said no harem due to a desire for realism, indiscriminate consequence free evil kinda flies in the face of that design choice.

I'm not playing the evil route and really don't care what happens there, but I admit I'd be at least a little irked if dev backed off on his stance to allow consequence free rapey horror land, but still required me to pick a best girl, thereby breaking all of the rest of their hearts, because realism.

*hurray run on sentences!

 

[armond]

Dev said no harem due to a desire for realism, indiscriminate consequence free evil kinda flies in the face of that design choice.

I'm not playing the evil route and really don't care what happens there, but I admit I'd be at least a little irked if dev backed off on his stance to allow consequence free rapey horror land, but still required me to pick a best girl, thereby breaking all of the rest of their hearts, because realism.

*hurray run on sentences!

Epstein didn't kill himself, remember?

 

[MonsterEyeGames]

Nice model and render's

 

[Master of Puppets]

Dev said no harem due to a desire for realism

Which talk about unrealistic bullshit. Guy's a multi-millionaire. For these poor, struggling girls to expect to have him all to themselves is ridiculous. If he's played good, he is undoubtedly the best man they are ever going to meet.

 

[Joshy92]

I just read there is no Nicki content in the next update
I think he might be saving the best for last

P.S. Gabby, Brittani & Mason are also bloody awesome

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

I just read there is no Nicki content in the next update

 

[NeonGhosts]

I just read there is no Nicki content in the next update
I think he might be saving the best for last

P.S. Gabby, Brittani & Mason are also bloody awesome

There's a smidgen of Nicki. >_>

 

[Joshy92]

There's a smidgen of Nicki. >_>

Hey mate I was wondering I know there are going to be consequences if the mc is too evil.
will there also be problems down the road if he is too nice?

 

[NewTricks]

To be honest, playing other devs' games kind of convinced me how not to handle some of the dark content in FiN. There's a reason that the devs that do double (and triple and quadruple and quint..) down on the dark content just become interminable misery porn slogs. That's a large part of why I want to avoid it.

I think there's also a reason those type of games tend to get abandoned. After a while, where do you go with it? All that's left is greater acts of degeneracy. That's not a story, it's just boner fuel.

None of this is new, by the way. I've been saying this since literally the beginning, but the darkest routes just aren't very interesting to write.

"Aieee!"

"Aouwww!"

"Eeeeee!"

There's not a lot of meat on that bone, and it basically goes to the same place for everyone. Do I try to add some variation (within the bounds of sense and logic)? Yes. See: Pepper. But 90% of the time, that route ends with the character in abject fear of MC, and doing everything they can to avoid him.

Conversely -- the corruption routes? Ton of fun to write.

Nicki - free-use fuck-buddy who waffles between enjoying it and getting pissed at MC, based on his treatment.

Gabby - reluctant sugar-baby who could come around on the benefits of the arrangement, provided MC makes it worth her while.

Ashe - furious plaything that's nonetheless has MC propping up her career in the face of a hostile boss.

On and on. All of these give the love interests more agency, and are therefore just way more fun to write. There's a level of back-and-forth that is just at odds with the absolute domination inherent to the dark path. And there's still plenty of opportunities for forceful interactions.

Plus, to reiterate: There is a practical side to this. I think some people may really be discounting the amount of effort it takes for me to do 3-4 routes for everyone, over the course of the game. It's rough, dudes! The newest update would probably be done by now, if I wasn't dicking around with doing multiple routes for Ashe.

I should honestly just shut up about future game developments, because I doubt anyone actually playing the game over the next few updates would even realize certain girls had begun to disappear.

It might make it easier if, after a point, the nice guy and corruption routes also trail off with certain girls. Like a girl that would succumb to coercion and blackmail out of fear still not digging corruption if she believes she has a choice (or is smart enough to find an alternative way out of her bad situation) or a girl that just can't be won over by a nice guy because she is only into bad boys. It might cause some consternation but it would cut down on your workload as well as reward specific playstyles. Having only two possible routes for a girl in the late game might streamline the story some.