VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch.1 Remake v0.25] [NeonGhosts]

[NebulousShooter]

Well i dunno, i'm trying to consider all combinations of possible scenarios, but it just doesn't really make much sense to me in any of these cases.

Any sort of getting together after Guy gets the money arguably doesn't prove much in terms of "Nicki accepts our hero exactly as he is". If anything, it potentially makes the optics worse, because when before you could argue that it's either money or improved looks (or both) that made the difference, now it's only the pile of money that becomes Guy's "new quality".

And if the hookup has happened before the money, then it means either Nicki then got together with Brent as her boyfriend, choosing him over Guy, or the hookup has happened while Nicki was with Brent, and she stayed with her boyfriend afterwards? Again, neither case shows any real "acceptance of Guy the way he is", and on top of that would kinda completely wreck that thing in the original prologue how Nicki and Guy having sex is for him "finally getting his dream girl" after years of just wanting her.

So... like i said, i'm confused. :v

I was joking around, didn't actually think it through, but you are right. It looks worse for our characters.
Will see how the final version looks and make my opinion if its an improvement, or not.

 

[NeonGhosts]

Well i dunno, i'm trying to consider all combinations of possible scenarios, but it just doesn't really make much sense to me in any of these cases.

Any sort of getting together after Guy gets the money arguably doesn't prove much in terms of "Nicki accepts our hero exactly as he is". If anything, it potentially makes the optics worse, because when before you could argue that it's either money or improved looks (or both) that made the difference, now it's only the pile of money that becomes Guy's "new quality".

And if the hookup has happened before the money, then it means either Nicki then got together with Brent as her boyfriend, choosing him over Guy, or the hookup has happened while Nicki was with Brent, and she stayed with her boyfriend afterwards? Again, neither case shows any real "acceptance of Guy the way he is", and on top of that would kinda completely wreck that thing in the original prologue how Nicki and Guy having sex is for him "finally getting his dream girl" after years of just wanting her.

So... like i said, i'm confused. :v

Actual (broad) spoilers for the remake, so don't read if you'd rather not know: So, going into the meeting with Nicki, there's basically three things going on. 1) He's been ducking Nicki, because he doesn't know how to tell her that he's now rich, and he's afraid it will ruin their friendship. 2) A few days prior, he meets with his lawyer for the first time, who advises him that he'll soon see people crawling out of the woodwork looking for money, and he needs to be suspicious of everyone. 3) He's still living in his crappy apartment, because he remains too emotionally paralyzed to actually finish moving into his new condo.

So, when Nicki arrives at his old place and demands they watch the season finale of one of their favorite shows, he tries to wiggle out of it, but finally relents. If you've done things right with Nicki, she'll surreptitiously cuddle up to you, making you wonder what the fuck she's doing. If you haven't met the conditions to get her to initiate a cuddle, you just sit and hang out.

The cuddle path has three options. One where you get touchy back (love), one where you don't (friend), and one where you wonder why she's fucking with your head, when she has a boyfriend.

If you're on the friend or love path, you'll have the option to sleep with her there in your apartment. It's only after you do, that she reveals she had a fight with Brent, and that he's fucked their finances. She thought he was taking her on a date, but he was bringing her to meet a guy offering to square their debt, if she agreed to model for him. Hence why she's all dressed up.

If you're not on a path that leads to sex there (not cuddling, or not responding correctly to the cuddles), she tells you the same story, and it sets alarm bells ringing. You begin to wonder if she figured out that you're wealthy, and now she's here to hit you up for money. You can either take a cynical view and think the worst of her, or not.

Continuing from the "apartment sex" path, you ask her if she wants to come see "something cool" and bring her to your condo, where she meets Carolina, and you mention that Nicki can be put on your approved visitors list (explaining why she's able to get to your place in Chapter 3).

If you're not on the sex path, you do the same, and bring her to your condo.

On the apartment sex path, this ends pretty quickly, and he agrees to help her. She ultimately leaves, because she still needs to talk with Brent, and figure her shit out.

If you haven't already has sex with her, it branches into a few options: platonic route, where you decide to help her but not sleep with her. Corruption route, where there's a lighter/playful option, and more of a hard dom option. And the dark path.

So, why did I make these changes? One reason is that I just wanted Nicki to be a better friend. So, she is. She doesn't directly hit up Guy for money, she just explains her circumstances and Guy reacts. I know people will probably dislike that it removes a little of the ambiguity over whether Nicki was intentionally trying to take advantage of Guy. But, I like that it's still there, but being driven more by paranoia induced by his lawyer. Nicki knows Guy messed up his finances years ago, by buying into crypto. She comes over and gives him this story, without asking for money. Now it's on the player to decide if she's trying to coax a check out of them, or not.

The main reason I shifted away from setting everything in his fancy, full furbished condo, is that I really wanted to hammer on the idea that helping (or "helping") Nicki really busted him out of his mental paralysis, and encouraged him to move forward with his life. A lot of this is stuff that was always in the first chapter, it was just more hinted at/stated through brief narration, rather than more explicitly talked about.

Ultimately, it all leads to the same place, with Nicki leaving to sort out her life, and Guy moving on with his.

 

[ffive]

Actual (broad) spoilers for the remake, so don't read if you'd rather not know

Thank you very much for the explanation, it does clarify things. To be honest, i'm not sure if making Guy effectively a rebound hookup improves things -- to be perfectly honest, i feel it makes them a bit worse... but then i'm biased because i really liked the "nice" path in the original prologue and i'll miss it gone. So you can safely disregard my view here

In any case, looking forward to the next update~

 

[Pixillin']

Actual (broad) spoilers for the remake, so don't read if you'd rather not know: So, going into the meeting with Nicki, there's basically three things going on. 1) He's been ducking Nicki, because he doesn't know how to tell her that he's now rich, and he's afraid it will ruin their friendship. 2) A few days prior, he meets with his lawyer for the first time, who advises him that he'll soon see people crawling out of the woodwork looking for money, and he needs to be suspicious of everyone. 3) He's still living in his crappy apartment, because he remains too emotionally paralyzed to actually finish moving into his new condo.

So, when Nicki arrives at his old place and demands they watch the season finale of one of their favorite shows, he tries to wiggle out of it, but finally relents. If you've done things right with Nicki, she'll surreptitiously cuddle up to you, making you wonder what the fuck she's doing. If you haven't met the conditions to get her to initiate a cuddle, you just sit and hang out.

The cuddle path has three options. One where you get touchy back (love), one where you don't (friend), and one where you wonder why she's fucking with your head, when she has a boyfriend.

If you're on the friend or love path, you'll have the option to sleep with her there in your apartment. It's only after you do, that she reveals she had a fight with Brent, and that he's fucked their finances. She thought he was taking her on a date, but he was bringing her to meet a guy offering to square their debt, if she agreed to model for him. Hence why she's all dressed up.

If you're not on a path that leads to sex there (not cuddling, or not responding correctly to the cuddles), she tells you the same story, and it sets alarm bells ringing. You begin to wonder if she figured out that you're wealthy, and now she's here to hit you up for money. You can either take a cynical view and think the worst of her, or not.

Continuing from the "apartment sex" path, you ask her if she wants to come see "something cool" and bring her to your condo, where she meets Carolina, and you mention that Nicki can be put on your approved visitors list (explaining why she's able to get to your place in Chapter 3).

If you're not on the sex path, you do the same, and bring her to your condo.

On the apartment sex path, this ends pretty quickly, and he agrees to help her. She ultimately leaves, because she still needs to talk with Brent, and figure her shit out.

If you haven't already has sex with her, it branches into a few options: platonic route, where you decide to help her but not sleep with her. Corruption route, where there's a lighter/playful option, and more of a hard dom option. And the dark path.

So, why did I make these changes? One reason is that I just wanted Nicki to be a better friend. So, she is. She doesn't directly hit up Guy for money, she just explains her circumstances and Guy reacts. I know people will probably dislike that it removes a little of the ambiguity over whether Nicki was intentionally trying to take advantage of Guy. But, I like that it's still there, but being driven more by paranoia induced by his lawyer. Nicki knows Guy messed up his finances years ago, by buying into crypto. She comes over and gives him this story, without asking for money. Now it's on the player to decide if she's trying to coax a check out of them, or not.

The main reason I shifted away from setting everything in his fancy, full furbished condo, is that I really wanted to hammer on the idea that helping (or "helping") Nicki really busted him out of his mental paralysis, and encouraged him to move forward with his life. A lot of this is stuff that was always in the first chapter, it was just more hinted at/stated through brief narration, rather than more explicitly talked about.

Ultimately, it all leads to the same place, with Nicki leaving to sort out her life, and Guy moving on with his.

I like the changes, mostly, I think ... but I'm firmly on the "nice" and Nicky - solo path anyway, even without the changes. With the changes and especially the convo with the lawyer and the changes to Nicky's approach even more so. People "coming out of the woodwork" wouldn't apply to Nicky in Guy's mind I don't think.

 

[NebulousShooter]

I like the changes, mostly, I think ... but I'm firmly on the "nice" and Nicky - solo path anyway, even without the changes. With the changes and especially the convo with the lawyer and the changes to Nicky's approach even more so. People "coming out of the woodwork" wouldn't apply to Nicky in Guy's mind I don't think.

Guy is a bit of an incel, at least at the start of the game(especially before the rework) He will for sure think Nicki is using him then go back to her BF, instead of being with good guy Guy

 

[Pixillin']

Guy is a bit of an incel, at least at the start of the game(especially before the rework) He will for sure think Nicki is using him then go back to her BF, instead of being with good guy Guy

I didn't read him that way, and I won't play it that way at any rate. To me Nicky is the one person he can trust, even if she fucks it up for awhile.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Actual (broad) spoilers for the remake, so don't read if you'd rather not know: So, going into the meeting with Nicki, there's basically three things going on. 1) He's been ducking Nicki, because he doesn't know how to tell her that he's now rich, and he's afraid it will ruin their friendship. 2) A few days prior, he meets with his lawyer for the first time, who advises him that he'll soon see people crawling out of the woodwork looking for money, and he needs to be suspicious of everyone. 3) He's still living in his crappy apartment, because he remains too emotionally paralyzed to actually finish moving into his new condo.

So, when Nicki arrives at his old place and demands they watch the season finale of one of their favorite shows, he tries to wiggle out of it, but finally relents. If you've done things right with Nicki, she'll surreptitiously cuddle up to you, making you wonder what the fuck she's doing. If you haven't met the conditions to get her to initiate a cuddle, you just sit and hang out.

The cuddle path has three options. One where you get touchy back (love), one where you don't (friend), and one where you wonder why she's fucking with your head, when she has a boyfriend.

If you're on the friend or love path, you'll have the option to sleep with her there in your apartment. It's only after you do, that she reveals she had a fight with Brent, and that he's fucked their finances. She thought he was taking her on a date, but he was bringing her to meet a guy offering to square their debt, if she agreed to model for him. Hence why she's all dressed up.

If you're not on a path that leads to sex there (not cuddling, or not responding correctly to the cuddles), she tells you the same story, and it sets alarm bells ringing. You begin to wonder if she figured out that you're wealthy, and now she's here to hit you up for money. You can either take a cynical view and think the worst of her, or not.

Continuing from the "apartment sex" path, you ask her if she wants to come see "something cool" and bring her to your condo, where she meets Carolina, and you mention that Nicki can be put on your approved visitors list (explaining why she's able to get to your place in Chapter 3).

If you're not on the sex path, you do the same, and bring her to your condo.

On the apartment sex path, this ends pretty quickly, and he agrees to help her. She ultimately leaves, because she still needs to talk with Brent, and figure her shit out.

If you haven't already has sex with her, it branches into a few options: platonic route, where you decide to help her but not sleep with her. Corruption route, where there's a lighter/playful option, and more of a hard dom option. And the dark path.

So, why did I make these changes? One reason is that I just wanted Nicki to be a better friend. So, she is. She doesn't directly hit up Guy for money, she just explains her circumstances and Guy reacts. I know people will probably dislike that it removes a little of the ambiguity over whether Nicki was intentionally trying to take advantage of Guy. But, I like that it's still there, but being driven more by paranoia induced by his lawyer. Nicki knows Guy messed up his finances years ago, by buying into crypto. She comes over and gives him this story, without asking for money. Now it's on the player to decide if she's trying to coax a check out of them, or not.

The main reason I shifted away from setting everything in his fancy, full furbished condo, is that I really wanted to hammer on the idea that helping (or "helping") Nicki really busted him out of his mental paralysis, and encouraged him to move forward with his life. A lot of this is stuff that was always in the first chapter, it was just more hinted at/stated through brief narration, rather than more explicitly talked about.

Ultimately, it all leads to the same place, with Nicki leaving to sort out her life, and Guy moving on with his.

Damn, I like that all a lot! Reallllly looking forward to the update man!

That's actually a good angle to take with Nicki and Guy. I was a little concerned that you might remove the dark scene altogether and maybe shuffle it to the beginning of chp 2 or something, to justify her return, which I don't think would've been as impactful on Guy's character going forward, nor as cool for the player getting their first taste of the nature of the game. I'm glad you've kept it, but still pretty curious about how the return will play out, as I do agree with others that it was a pretty big stretch in the original execution. I'm guessing you softened up the dark scene a little maybe? I hope that, plus her past experiences you've talked about here as well as her personality and now reinforced friendship with Guy might make it all work now.

True, her ambiguous intentions now being cleared up kinda takes away one interesting element (for some players, anyways)... but, I think overall it's much better. I think some players need a completely straight answer or even a god's eye understanding of every LI, or she's just dead to them, which I get. I'm more in the complexity camp where I think it makes the LI feel more 'real' and interesting and fun to talk about. But, at least these changes will clear things up for the former group! And... it proves us Nicki supporters right in the end! Come rest, the war is finally over..

Thank you very much for the explanation, it does clarify things. To be honest, i'm not sure if making Guy effectively a rebound hookup improves things -- to be perfectly honest, i feel it makes them a bit worse... but then i'm biased because i really liked the "nice" path in the original prologue and i'll miss it gone. So you can safely disregard my view here

In any case, looking forward to the next update~

I guess we won't know for sure until we play it, but I have a feeling characterizing it as a 'rebound hookup' will be a very uncharitable view and clash with what we know about Nicki. I think it's going to be obvious that Guy and Nicki have feelings for each other, but they're both stuck; Nicki's stuck with her bf and I suppose weak will or low self-worth by putting up with his bs and not breaking it off; and Guy is stuck with his bottomed out self confidence from that poor financial decision in his youth and the effect it's had on his life trajectory. Once Guy strikes it rich and helps Nicki, as Neon said, he starts on his path of rediscovering his mojo; and I'm guessing once Nicki is put through all that mess by Brent, that's the final straw that finally pushed her into breaking it off with the little shit and, eventually, looking out for her better interests going forward. At least that's my interpretation of it.

 

[Sherengroth]

this is why I'm a asshole to the 1st girl, but nice/generous to everybody else. they don't ask for handouts and then basically ignore the mc, and if the mc is generous and gives them something they show their gratitude, and try to payback the kindness or with what resources or abilities they have.

 

[ffive]

I guess we won't know for sure until we play it, but I have a feeling characterizing it as a 'rebound hookup' will be a very uncharitable view and clash with what we know about Nicki. I think it's going to be obvious that Guy and Nicki have feelings for each other, but they're both stuck; Nicki's stuck with her bf and I suppose weak will or low self-worth by putting up with his bs and not breaking it off; and Guy is stuck with his bottomed out self confidence from that poor financial decision in his youth and the effect it's had on his life trajectory. Once Guy strikes it rich and helps Nicki, as Neon said, he starts on his path of rediscovering his mojo; and I'm guessing once Nicki is put through all that mess by Brent, that's the final straw that finally pushed her into breaking it off with the little shit and, eventually, looking out for her better interests going forward. At least that's my interpretation of it.

Don't get me wrong, i agree with the whole feelings for each other aspect etc. It's just that at the same time it can't be denied that if Nicki had a fight with Brent over his whole attempt to peddle her off, then she's at that moment in very vulnerable spot emotionally and i think it makes her latching on the Guy right there and then a bit less about the two of them and their actual feelings (as opposed to Nicki hurting and looking for comfort) so to speak. If that makes sense.

 

[Pixillin']

Actual (broad) spoilers for the remake, so don't read if you'd rather not know: So, going into the meeting with Nicki, there's basically three things going on. 1) He's been ducking Nicki, because he doesn't know how to tell her that he's now rich, and he's afraid it will ruin their friendship. 2) A few days prior, he meets with his lawyer for the first time, who advises him that he'll soon see people crawling out of the woodwork looking for money, and he needs to be suspicious of everyone. 3) He's still living in his crappy apartment, because he remains too emotionally paralyzed to actually finish moving into his new condo.

So, when Nicki arrives at his old place and demands they watch the season finale of one of their favorite shows, he tries to wiggle out of it, but finally relents. If you've done things right with Nicki, she'll surreptitiously cuddle up to you, making you wonder what the fuck she's doing. If you haven't met the conditions to get her to initiate a cuddle, you just sit and hang out.

The cuddle path has three options. One where you get touchy back (love), one where you don't (friend), and one where you wonder why she's fucking with your head, when she has a boyfriend.

If you're on the friend or love path, you'll have the option to sleep with her there in your apartment. It's only after you do, that she reveals she had a fight with Brent, and that he's fucked their finances. She thought he was taking her on a date, but he was bringing her to meet a guy offering to square their debt, if she agreed to model for him. Hence why she's all dressed up.

If you're not on a path that leads to sex there (not cuddling, or not responding correctly to the cuddles), she tells you the same story, and it sets alarm bells ringing. You begin to wonder if she figured out that you're wealthy, and now she's here to hit you up for money. You can either take a cynical view and think the worst of her, or not.

Continuing from the "apartment sex" path, you ask her if she wants to come see "something cool" and bring her to your condo, where she meets Carolina, and you mention that Nicki can be put on your approved visitors list (explaining why she's able to get to your place in Chapter 3).

If you're not on the sex path, you do the same, and bring her to your condo.

On the apartment sex path, this ends pretty quickly, and he agrees to help her. She ultimately leaves, because she still needs to talk with Brent, and figure her shit out.

If you haven't already has sex with her, it branches into a few options: platonic route, where you decide to help her but not sleep with her. Corruption route, where there's a lighter/playful option, and more of a hard dom option. And the dark path.

So, why did I make these changes? One reason is that I just wanted Nicki to be a better friend. So, she is. She doesn't directly hit up Guy for money, she just explains her circumstances and Guy reacts. I know people will probably dislike that it removes a little of the ambiguity over whether Nicki was intentionally trying to take advantage of Guy. But, I like that it's still there, but being driven more by paranoia induced by his lawyer. Nicki knows Guy messed up his finances years ago, by buying into crypto. She comes over and gives him this story, without asking for money. Now it's on the player to decide if she's trying to coax a check out of them, or not.

The main reason I shifted away from setting everything in his fancy, full furbished condo, is that I really wanted to hammer on the idea that helping (or "helping") Nicki really busted him out of his mental paralysis, and encouraged him to move forward with his life. A lot of this is stuff that was always in the first chapter, it was just more hinted at/stated through brief narration, rather than more explicitly talked about.

Ultimately, it all leads to the same place, with Nicki leaving to sort out her life, and Guy moving on with his.

Actually I just re-read this and I have questions:

If we don't sleep with her, will that close the love path? My intention was not to sleep with her until after she came back - to cuddle her and comfort her and give her the money but not fuck her while she's still with Brent but it sounds like your saying the love path will be closed.

 

[fannum]

Quit overthinking and live with what's done. You'll just chase your tail forever and get lost in a swamp.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Don't get me wrong, i agree with the whole feelings for each other aspect etc. It's just that at the same time it can't be denied that if Nicki had a fight with Brent over his whole attempt to peddle her off, then she's at that moment in very vulnerable spot emotionally and i think it makes her latching on the Guy right there and then a bit less about the two of them and their actual feelings (as opposed to Nicki hurting and looking for comfort) so to speak. If that makes sense.

Yeah, it definitely makes sense, and I think that scene could be written with that in mind. But I think what's going through Nicki's head is probably much deeper and realer than that. I think Nicki probably feels like she owes Brent something maybe, or that she deserves him, or that she can't get someone else. But, at this stage of their crashing-and-burning relationship, I think she's more realizing that she loves Guy, and definitely not Brent, and probably feels both guilt, about cheating on Brent even though he deserves it, and regret, about getting with him in the first place. I think the dynamic is supposed to play like a typical romance plot along the lines of 'girl feels stuck with a pos she doesn't know how to leave, only to realize she's actually been in love with her best friend the whole time.' I could be wrong, of course, but that's how I see it.

Actually I just re-read this and I have questions:

If we don't sleep with her, will that close the love path? My intention was not to sleep with her until after she came back - to cuddle her and comfort her and give her the money but not fuck her while she's still with Brent but it sounds like your saying the love path will be closed.

Obviously I'm not the dev, but, I think the way this game works is basically there are chunks of the game where you're developing your relationship with a LI, whether friend or romance etc., and you get scenes based on how that's developed. But, at certain points throughout, you're given the opportunity to hop onto another relationship status, so you can go from friend to romance or romance to friend, corruption to dark, etc.

Ashe is the best example of this since she has the most content at this point alongside Nicki: you can get onto Ashe's dark route really fast in the alley; or, shortly after, you can get on any one of her routes at MC's condo; and then later in the game on her date and back at the MC's condo again, you can develop your current route further or get onto another one, for example you can break up with Ashe on the romance route, or you can abuse her and get on the dark route there, or you can start her romance route from the friend route, and so on and so on.

I'm sure there will be a point in the game where your relationship with a LI is locked in, but until then, my understanding is that there are multiple opportunities to get on and off of a LI's various routes. So, with Nicki, I don't see why you couldn't be on her friend route when she needed the money, and then get onto her romance path when she returns. Or maybe even later than that? I guess some players might also feel like that's taking advantage of Nicki's vulnerability or whatever. Nicki feels the most like a long-game LI, so she might honestly have the most opportunities to get onto her various paths.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

The main reason I shifted away from setting everything in his fancy, full furbished condo, is that I really wanted to hammer on the idea that helping (or "helping") Nicki really busted him out of his mental paralysis, and encouraged him to move forward with his life. A lot of this is stuff that was always in the first chapter, it was just more hinted at/stated through brief narration, rather than more explicitly talked about.

I like the idea of spelling out that Nicki was the force behind making Guy create his "friends in need" organization.

 

[bigmen]

Will we have to start a new save when ch1 is remaked?

 

[Joshy92]

Will we have to start a new save when ch1 is remaked?

Yes.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Yes.

I wish I could be as concise as this

 

[Jarulf]

I wish I could be as concise as this

Indeed

 

[Akabakka]

I know people will probably dislike that it removes a little of the ambiguity over whether Nicki was intentionally trying to take advantage of Guy.

I like that idea and intent... not relaunching that never-ending debate, but in the original, whatever her real motives and intent, it was not a good look and nice interaction among friends. I'm all for more nuances

 

[NebulousShooter]

I need Brittani in my life!

 

[Eland51298]

But does Brittani need YOU in HER life?