VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch.1 Remake v0.25] [NeonGhosts]

[cuzimhavingagoodtime]

slightly confused. Last I played was just plain 0.39 (yes I know it was a long time ago).
So the 'remake' is remaking the whole thing from scratch...I don't see the point as it was great as it was.
Question....if/when a chapter 2 comes out is there a continuation from ONLY the remake version or will it continue from the original chapter one....or will it just be a fresh start?

You should be confused because you didn't read back far enough or do a search.
Had you done either you might of learned that there is no plan to do a full remake.
As stated by the Dev themself there was only a plan to rework Chapter 1 which they did.
They will be tweeks to the rest to aline with Chapter one but no full reworks.

thanks, not sure that answers the question but after the trolling from that other guy I am just going to play this bit and give up on this...I can do without trolling like that when I COULDN'T find what I needed by searching....I mean how do I even find an answer to all those questions I had.

You just walked into class a little late and got scolded by the professor lol. Seriously, though, you would need to read pretty far back to find what's up because Neon has been talking about redoing the first chapter for something like two years and for those two years people have been stumbling in and asking "why are you remaking the game" and we all have been shouting "HE ISN'T REMAKING THE GAME JUST THE FUCKING CHAPTER!"

I will point out that my Dev Updates are always free on my blogs, if you'd like to follow along for free and know what's up with the game's status. >_>

This is like, a comedy bit to me.

So I'll try and start off on the right foot here by saying I'm a longtime fan of the game and I want it to get the players it deserves. The writing is excellent, the visuals are good, I am fairly certain there is no other game on the site with this level of commitment to player choice. top 1% of f95 for sure. So I'm coming from a place of constructive criticism here. Let me direct your attention to the first page of this thread.

This is bar none the worst f95 splash page I have ever seen. I'm pretty confident in saying it's the worst one that exists.


OK skip past the picture and the summary. those are fine. But these fucking downloads. How is this mess supposed to be understood to a newcomer who saw your nice picture and interesting introduction paragraph and now wants to play the game.

It's insanity to the point of comedy they way people in this thread act like it's a poor newbie's fault they're confused because they should have just figured out everything on their own. People are aware asking noob questions is rude and annoying, People would *Rather* just figure it out on their own, and the evil perfection of this 'information' page punishes them for trying. Go on a journey with me, lets put ourselves in the shoes of these prospective new players


So the four named versions of the game are Patreon, Vanilla, Remake subscribestar, and remake Friends Indeed Patreon, and then one more that doesn't have a label, only a chapter count. the unamned is the largest version with 11 chapters, Vanilla seems to have 8, the two remakes have just one, and the Patreon version is mysteriously not apparently available at all. It's just mentioned in the dropdown box labeled "About The Vanilla Version" which is probably the where someone hoping to understand all these various versions will click on first, hoping for an explanation, but learn only
"The Vanilla Version is the Patreon version with all non Patreon confirming content removed"

But that's not nothing, things are maybe a little clearer once you understand that the Patreon version is evidently the version that had to be removed from Patreon for it's Patreon-unnaceptable content, and the Vanilla version is the one that gets distributed on Patreon, because the Patreon version isn't allowed on Patreon. So that's cleared up.

A newcomer who doesn't want to be annoying and ask in the thread, trying to make sense of all this nonsense, will probably assume that once he's read all the various labels and the gone through the 9 various dropdown boxes he will understand what version he is supposed to be download. His faith in the dev will be betrayed, instead of answers there is only questions. questions like

1.
Why is "the patch" by itself in a dropdown instead of grouped with the other fanmods.

2.
"Ok, so when they say "Patreon version", is that
a) shorthand to refer to the Remake Friends Indeed Patreon version
b) or is it referring to the unamend version-Since we have a version with a name but no download links, and a separate one with just the links that's left unamned-they fit together I can;t prove it but I *feel it*
c) actually just yet another version distinct from both of those, not allowed to be downloaded for some unknowable reason.


2. What the fuck is a "Nikki removal mod"



SO HEY, NEONGHOSTS!

All my respect and love man. But like. Just fucking explain the basics in the intro post itself. This will serve you far far better than chiding people for failing to caught up on reading your devlog, which they don't know exists.

 

[Pixillin']

This is like, a comedy bit to me.

So I'll try and start off on the right foot here by saying I'm a longtime fan of the game and I want it to get the players it deserves. The writing is excellent, the visuals are good, I am fairly certain there is no other game on the site with this level of commitment to player choice. top 1% of f95 for sure. So I'm coming from a place of constructive criticism here. Let me direct your attention to the first page of this thread.

This is bar none the worst f95 splash page I have ever seen. I'm pretty confident in saying it's the worst one that exists.


OK skip past the picture and the summary. those are fine. But these fucking downloads. How is this mess supposed to be understood to a newcomer who saw your nice picture and interesting introduction paragraph and now wants to play the game.

It's insanity to the point of comedy they way people in this thread act like it's a poor newbie's fault they're confused because they should have just figured out everything on their own. People are aware asking noob questions is rude and annoying, People would *Rather* just figure it out on their own, and the evil perfection of this 'information' page punishes them for trying. Go on a journey with me, lets put ourselves in the shoes of these prospective new players


So the four named versions of the game are Patreon, Vanilla, Remake subscribestar, and remake Friends Indeed Patreon, and then one more that doesn't have a label, only a chapter count. the unamned is the largest version with 11 chapters, Vanilla seems to have 8, the two remakes have just one, and the Patreon version is mysteriously not apparently available at all. It's just mentioned in the dropdown box labeled "About The Vanilla Version" which is probably the where someone hoping to understand all these various versions will click on first, hoping for an explanation, but learn only
"The Vanilla Version is the Patreon version with all non Patreon confirming content removed"

But that's not nothing, things are maybe a little clearer once you understand that the Patreon version is evidently the version that had to be removed from Patreon for it's Patreon-unnaceptable content, and the Vanilla version is the one that gets distributed on Patreon, because the Patreon version isn't allowed on Patreon. So that's cleared up.

A newcomer who doesn't want to be annoying and ask in the thread, trying to make sense of all this nonsense, will probably assume that once he's read all the various labels and the gone through the 9 various dropdown boxes he will understand what version he is supposed to be download. His faith in the dev will be betrayed, instead of answers there is only questions. questions like

1.
Why is "the patch" by itself in a dropdown instead of grouped with the other fanmods.

2.
"Ok, so when they say "Patreon version", is that
a) shorthand to refer to the Remake Friends Indeed Patreon version
b) or is it referring to the unamend version-Since we have a version with a name but no download links, and a separate one with just the links that's left unamned-they fit together I can;t prove it but I *feel it*
c) actually just yet another version distinct from both of those, not allowed to be downloaded for some unknowable reason.


2. What the fuck is a "Nikki removal mod"



SO HEY, NEONGHOSTS!

All my respect and love man. But like. Just fucking explain the basics in the intro post itself. This will serve you far far better than chiding people for failing to caught up on reading your devlog, which they don't know exists.

It should all be fine shortly - at least I assume that once Neon gets finished integrating the new Chapter 1 with the old Chapters 2-11 there won't be any need to post the standalone Chapter 1s anymore and he's currently finishing that up.

 

[Ragnar]

I don't really see how the arc of the story is fundamentally different, from the initial Chapter 1. It ends with Nicki having taken money from Guy, to sort out Brent's mess. Brent will fuck her over again. Nicki and Brent will split up and Nicki will go off to try to A) hide from unsavory loan-sharks B) solve her problem without involving the player.

If you're playing vanilla route changes are great bc GuyxNicki relationship is more fleshed out now.

But for Corruption and specially for Dark path changes are big.

- Corruption: Why would a dude like Guy exploit his relationship with Nicki? Until that point he was so worried about losing her friendship that he even told her to date Brent

- Dark path: The dark path doesn't make any sense now. In the original there was a trigger to go full psycho, Nicki doing Brent bid and asking for a cut of Guy's crypto earnings.
You deleted that with the remake.

 

[cuzimhavingagoodtime]

It should all be fine shortly - at least I assume that once Neon gets finished integrating the new Chapter 1 with the old Chapters 2-11 there won't be any need to post the standalone Chapter 1s anymore and he's currently finishing that up.

two minds here. Yeah I wasn't considering this, and I guess I do mildly regret my tone. I would maybe have been less of a confrotational dick if I had known the logic was "this is fine since it's just temporary" instead of "this is fine, there's nothing wrong with this"

But. Still. It's not a well-thought out decision to allow this to be a problem for multiple months. like for the couple months the page looks like this estimate 50% of curious new people who clicked on the game interested and would normally have downloaded it instead get frustrated and move on.

Like preventing that has to be worth half an hour of work writing explanations for how to play the game these months. I guess I don't know that for sure, I don't know the exact numbers Neon is working with for how much he cares about an f95 download. but like c'mon.


I just think it's not easy just how crazy hostile this shit is to a newcomer if you've been a regular in this thread doing character analysis for the last 5 years, so you already know what everything means. And then get mad about the people trying to figure out basic shit in the thread like it's their fault.

 

[NeonGhosts]

I just think it's not easy just how crazy hostile this shit is to a newcomer if you've been a regular in this thread doing character analysis for the last 5 years, so you already know what everything means. And then get mad about the people trying to figure out basic shit in the thread like it's their fault.

I agree! But.. I don’t control the first page. I’ve tried removing the Friends Indeed content, the links to my Patreon, my superfluous stuff that’s since been added to the game (save naming patch, etc.) but my attempts have been denied.

I’m trying to get the mini-sodes and Nicki removal joke/mod integrated with the main game, so that will at least (hopefully) allow some of that to be streamlined.

 

[Joshy92]

Maybe the evil path is to show that evil Guy is such a piece of garbage that he can't see how much destruction he's causing to the people he torments?

Guy is evil and doesn't think of anyone or anything but himself.

I don't know, I don't play it, I'm just speculating.

 

[Cutestarr65]

Is the reworked chapter 1 in the Friends in Need version, or is that sill forthcoming?

 

[LWtbo]

Is the reworked chapter 1 in the Friends in Need version, or is that sill forthcoming?

I's on the OP. (original Page/Front page) of this thread
I know it doesn't say it's Friends in need like the other version that says Patreon also says Friends Indeed.
But if it's from Subscribestar it's friends in need which is the one your after.
Hope that helps.
DOWNLOAD
Chapter 1 Remake (Subsribestar Version)
Win/Linux:

You must be registered to see the links

- MEGA -

You must be registered to see the links

- PIXELDRAIN -

You must be registered to see the links

 

[NeonGhosts]

If you're playing vanilla route changes are great bc GuyxNicki relationship is more fleshed out now.

But for Corruption and specially for Dark path changes are big.

- Corruption: Why would a dude like Guy exploit his relationship with Nicki? Until that point he was so worried about losing her friendship that he even told her to date Brent

- Dark path: The dark path doesn't make any sense now. In the original there was a trigger to go full psycho, Nicki doing Brent bid and asking for a cut of Guy's crypto earnings.
You deleted that with the remake.

I don't think it's so much the plot arc, but what people are saying: that with Nicki being explicitly Guy's closest bestest friend forever as opposed to more of a maybe just a co-worker who is potentially mainly seeking him out because she is in trouble but otherwise doesn't care about Guy all that much... it's far more difficult to justify Guy's dark path behavior towards his evident bff, especially when she doesn't even really ask for his help so it can't be pretended that she's seeking to take advantage of him. Plus the whole ghosting Nicki on all routes thing, that happens even if you don't go the dark path.

The story arc is not different, but Guy's character in this arc is (and thus maybe also coloring him different for the rest of the game) is.

Okay, but like.. The dark path was never "justified." It was always Guy having a gross overreaction to a mostly reasonable ask: "Hey, can you please give me 0.0004 of your net worth, so a loan shark doesn't cut my hands off?" The idea that Nicki needed to be unsympathetic/distant, in order for the dark path to work, just doesn't hold water for me. Besides, where was this energy with Viola or Ashe?

I think the new dark path works better because it's not Guy going all-in on evil, right away. It's the first step on his journey to realizing that he's above reproach or consequences. And if you want justification in a character-based way, look at the actions that lead there. It requires you to be cocky/superior, and behave like a bit of a dickhead and misogynist, for the dark path to even be unlocked.

In my mind, the dark path Guy was probably always a bit of a creep, but his creep tendencies were held in check by his self-loathing and insecurity. Like, how many "nice guys" are harboring a dark side, which they never really show to anyone? When Guy's suddenly given money and the ability to act on his fantasies, he does so not because they suddenly manifested, but because they were always there, and an opportunity presented itself.

As for ghosting Nicki, I still don't see why this is something people keep getting hung up on. It's pretty explicitly spelled out that he did it for a bad reason (busy, exhausted, and worried about changing their friendship), and he acknowledges it as dumb in hindsight. Guy (especially at this point) is a giant ball of neuroses, and he doesn't always make great decisions.

 

[ffive]

Okay, but like.. The dark path was never "justified." It was always Guy having a gross overreaction to a mostly reasonable ask: "Hey, can you please give me 0.0004 of your net worth, so a loan shark doesn't cut my hands off?" The idea that Nicki needed to be unsympathetic/distant, in order for the dark path to work, just doesn't hold water for me.

It's true that you'd have to have a very unfavorable reading of Nicki in order to think Guy's actions were justified, but it doesn't change the fact that some of the players had such reading of her and thus had much easier time justifying the dark path as actions their Guy would take in response to Nicki's approach. It may not hold water for you, but the evidence is right here, in the shape of people all across the thread voicing this kind of opinions. Both before the update, and after the changes.

Those players had the proverbial rug pulled from under them, with the narrative changes, and it changes how Guy looks when taking these actions, to them.

Besides, where was this energy with Viola or Ashe?

This was also explained by other posters: once you buy into the idea that Guy gets a taste of demeaning people when he explodes over Nicki's "betrayal" and "gold digging", it's easier for him to seek the same emotion even when it's no longer "justified". Without this catalyst the whole dark personality of Guy is kind of out of nowhere, and for some players it's harder to take asshole options "just because" when they didn't witness/orchestrate their MC's corruption themselves.

Guy (especially at this point) is a giant ball of neuroses, and he doesn't always make great decisions.

I think it might actually be part of the problem. Players generally hate to be saddled with a loser MC and have dumb decisions forced on them for the sake of the plot, and this is now their first and thus potentially long-lasting (if not last) impression of Guy. "I don't want to play (or associate with) someone this dumb" is a valid reaction.

The previous iteration was more of a blank slate, with prologue being relatively simpler and done in rougher strokes. This one in comparison doesn't leave much room for interpretation. Guy is what he is, a paranoid, easily conned idiot and also maybe a creep.

 

[Bombmaster]

ffive
It is going to be a conscious choice to embrace darkness. I miss the autopilot, low self-esteem, and hate psyop fueled by Nicki's money situation.
With this change, Nicki is in a new light, but darker, enjoyers like myself can't easily turn into creeps.

Being creepy with Ashe is kinda easy, she is easygoing and flirty. She is asking for it... The creep protagonist thinks.

Viola is tricky. for a Damsel in distress. I would like a soft corruption into maledom.
But alas too much work for our boy Neonghosts.

 

[Ragnar]

Okay, but like.. The dark path was never "justified." It was always Guy having a gross overreaction to a mostly reasonable ask: "Hey, can you please give me 0.0004 of your net worth, so a loan shark doesn't cut my hands off?" The idea that Nicki needed to be unsympathetic/distant, in order for the dark path to work, just doesn't hold water for me. Besides, where was this energy with Viola or Ashe?

There was an action > reaction dynamic in that interaction like I have explained in my previous post. It doesn't excuse the rape and all that but it was there like a trigger for an unstable person (Guy). Changing that bit of the story hurt greatly Guy's character and motivations in the dark path imo.
By the time Darth Guy met with Ashe/Viola he's already on a power trip after bashing Nicki's ass at the Jedi Temple

I think the new dark path works better because it's not Guy going all-in on evil, right away. It's the first step on his journey to realizing that he's above reproach or consequences. And if you want justification in a character-based way, look at the actions that lead there. It requires you to be cocky/superior, and behave like a bit of a dickhead and misogynist, for the dark path to even be unlocked.

Different strokes for different folks. I think that change is the most nitpicked one in the remake by far, at least here on F95.

 

[DogSwordWhychm]

There was an action > reaction dynamic in that interaction like I have explained in my previous post. It doesn't excuse the rape and all that but it was there like a trigger for an unstable person (Guy). Changing that bit of the story hurt greatly Guy's character and motivations in the dark path imo.

I think you hit the crux of it here. I like most of the changes in the update, but the dark path actually feels more like

Guy going all-in on evil, right away.

 

[cccxxx]

what i take from the above postings

so there will be somewhat 2 main paths
1 helper love, finding jobs for girls
2 user using , getting into pron and webcam

maybe various degrees with different characters based on taste

i'll play both


now get viola and gabby in the pool already!

 

[zoe_meat]

The milk session is in full effect why tf a game hardly 2yrs games going great suddenly it needs a Remake

 

[soprano31]

The milk session is in full effect why tf a game hardly 2yrs games going great suddenly it needs a Remake

 

[Kuolemanlaakso]

Still no android of the Subscribestar version?

 

[DefaultNK]

In my mind, the dark path Guy was probably always a bit of a creep, but his creep tendencies were held in check by his self-loathing and insecurity. Like, how many "nice guys" are harboring a dark side, which they never really show to anyone? When Guy's suddenly given money and the ability to act on his fantasies, he does so not because they suddenly manifested, but because they were always there, and an opportunity presented itself.

People aren't looking for a moral justification or claiming that a moral justification existed in the previous version, or at least I really hope they aren't. They're asking for character-level justification; what is it about this specific moment that makes Guy start acting on his secret evil tendencies after hiding them for years? You can say it's justified based on the actions that led there, but that doesn't solve the issue so much as it moves it. What is it that makes Guy start aggressively shit-talking Nicki after being nothing but a good friend to her for two years, other than the meta-knowledge that the player has to pick that option in order to see dark path content? The original chapter one answered this question easily. The remake technically sort of has an implied answer, which is applied retroactively once the player selects options that only start to make sense in-universe with the addition of information that isn't given until they have already selected those options.

There's a reason no one who played the good path is saying they don't understand why Guy would choose to gift Nicki ten thousand dollars, and it's not because dark path players are more prone to complaining. Well, we may or may not be more prone to complaining, but that's not the reason.

As for Ashe and Viola, the answer is pretty much what ffive and Ragnar said (and I think ffive was sort of indirectly quoting me to begin with). This is even supported in the remake itself, with the blurb near the end about Guy realizing for the first time what his money will let him get away with. While it is technically possible to be ultra nice to Nicki and then rape Ashe or Viola later, the simple reality is that no one brings the inconsistency up because few if any people actually play the game that way in the first place.