VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch.1 Remake v0.25] [NeonGhosts]

[NeegNog]

i feel like everyone is just biased towards the way they play and what their favorite kinks , we should just try the dev , he is doing a great job so far , i mean there is great potential since this is one of his starting games

 

[NeegNog]

i like how all these peaple that dont like the dark path and dont play it give their opinion on it , you should let the peaple who actually enjoy it give the critics for it , you dont see us going around trying to force the way we play on the game

 

[MarcoDerio]

Money changes people, Guy lost his money and then given fortune. He lost his chance by being a coward and given another chance on his relationship with nicki. The only variable that changes are the money he had.

But at the end of the day, its the dev story to write. its always better to show than tell so the viewers ( or players in this case ) could form their own conclusions on the situation.

 

[Pixillin']

i like how all these peaple that dont like the dark path and dont play it give their opinion on it , you should let the peaple who actually enjoy it give the critics for it , you dont see us going around trying to force the way we play on the game

I’m not telling anyone how to play, just pointing out that the new version is the same as the old version but better explained and with more background information (and better art).

 

[NeegNog]

I’m not telling anyone how to play, just pointing out that the new version is the same as the old version but better explained and with more background information (and better art).

 

[LWtbo]

Actually my issue is not that you can't kid yourself that Nicki did the dirty on you.
So treating her like shit and raping her Is somehow ok.
Or that you don't like the Dev's new update is making you have to be an asshole from the start now.
If you still want to treat Nikki the same way.

Nope my Issue is the Idea now that if you act like a misogynistic asshole from the start as expected.
That Nikki is still even your friend let alone actually cares for you.

No girl In her right mind no matter how easygoing or Naive they appear.
Is ever going to stay friends with an misogynistic asshole let alone care about him.
And you can try but you can't hide it from a girl for long I have seen a few try.
Girls may put up with that crap from a boyfriend or even a relative and they do sadly.

I have known many that will actually not only put up with it but date the misogynistic asshole.
But not one of them would be willing to have one as a friend.
No girl I know or have ever met will put up with that crap from just a male friend.
At least not one that wasn't gay.

Just Sayin.

 

[ffive]

No girl In her right mind no matter how easygoing or Naive they appear.
Is ever going to stay friends with an misogynistic asshole let alone care about him.

I mean, Nicki is staying for years in relationship with Brent who is just a bag of negative traits wrapped together with a string of stupidity. Also, if you go all-out to demean her and lower her opinion enough, she does tell Guy to go fuck himself and that they're basically through:

            ni1e"Seriously, you are-- you are un-fucking-believable. I don't know what's gotten into
            you, but if this is how you want to be, then I'm done with you."
            ni1e"Call me when you've pulled your head out of your ass. I'd ask for some privacy
            while I change, but fuck it, you paid for the show."
            ni1e"Enjoy."

Supposedly, this is first time Guy acted in this manner in the whole time they've known each other, so Nicki didn't have a reason to think he isn't a good friend and/or relationship material.

There is inconsistency about it, but it's elsewhere -- the whole idea that supposedly "Guy was acshually unhinged, sexist creep the entire time and you can pick for him to have one misogynist though in the prologue to show it" kind of falls apart when otherwise all of his internal monologues about Nicki and in general are 100% positive, loving, respectful, grateful and whathaveyou. (until the last 5% where you choose to be a dick and he goes all Mr. Hyde) Which is harder to buy, because while one can act in front of others to fool them about what sort of a person you are, you don't fake your internal thoughts.

But then rectifying it would require quite a bit more writing, since you'd basically have to write 2-3 different Guys.

 

[Ottoeight]

I mean, Nicki is staying for years in relationship with Brent who is just a bag of negative traits wrapped together with a string of stupidity. Also, if you go all-out to demean her and lower her opinion enough, she does tell Guy to go fuck himself and that they're basically through:

            ni1e"Seriously, you are-- you are un-fucking-believable. I don't know what's gotten into
            you, but if this is how you want to be, then I'm done with you."
            ni1e"Call me when you've pulled your head out of your ass. I'd ask for some privacy
            while I change, but fuck it, you paid for the show."
            ni1e"Enjoy."

Supposedly, this is first time Guy acted in this manner in the whole time they've known each other, so Nicki didn't have a reason to think he isn't a good friend and/or relationship material.

There is inconsistency about it, but it's elsewhere -- the whole idea that supposedly "Guy was acshually unhinged, sexist creep the entire time and you can pick for him to have one misogynist though in the prologue to show it" kind of falls apart when otherwise all of his internal monologues about Nicki and in general are 100% positive, loving, respectful, grateful and whathaveyou. (until the last 5% where you choose to be a dick and he goes all Mr. Hyde) Which is harder to buy, because while one can act in front of others to fool them about what sort of a person you are, you don't fake your internal thoughts.

But then rectifying it would require quite a bit more writing, since you'd basically have to write 2-3 different Guys.

People can beat around the bush as much as they want, BUT the naked truth is that this chapter 1 remake is as much as pointless and unnecessary and most of all detrimental for the whole game as much as all these side stories the dev has released during these months are pointless and unnecessary.

The first chapter was good as it was - it only needed some updated cgs.

Moreover, the game has too many characters and too many subroutes: it will go nowhere and we all know it.

 

[soldano]

We don't know that Guy is a normal person. He likes Nicki? Lots of toxic, shitty people love their moms. I'm not telling you that Guy has the potential for evil, because I'm showing you. To get to the dark route with Nicki you have to consistently display behavior that is kind of shitty, misogynistic, and gross. So, when he acts out in a moment of frustration/fear of losing his chance, it isn't a sudden, harsh departure from the person we've seen. It's just another step on the escalation ladder.

Okay, man. I guess you're bothered by the criticism, but there are also people who like your remake. So don't get all worked up. It never rains to everyone's liking.
Now, in my professional opinion, if I got my hands on a script that started like this remake, I'd throw it away without reading anything else. Maybe everything will make sense later and be spectacular. But there's no time to read everything, and a story that begins with such weak characters no longer invites the effort.
But that's just my opinion. Luckily, you don't depend on just one reader. So if there are people who like this new story you're telling, go for it.
What does surprise me is that you actually already had good material to work with. I don't understand why, instead of improving what was weakest, you chose to discard the most interesting things you had in your original chapter 1. But there's no need to dwell on it any further. These things sometimes happen when a story is tweaked more than it needs.

 

[SeaSide585]

It’s generally not a good idea to get too emotionally attached to characters in an AVN. This remake feels like it was tailored to present Nicki in a more favorable light. The fact that there was even a "Nicki removal" patch that made the game quit as a joke feels like a defensive move. In a porn game, the focus should be on player choice and story balance — not protecting certain characters. When it starts feeling like the dev takes criticism of a character personally, it gets a bit strange.

 

[prpa]

There is inconsistency about it, but it's elsewhere -- the whole idea that supposedly "Guy was acshually unhinged, sexist creep the entire time and you can pick for him to have one misogynist though in the prologue to show it" kind of falls apart when otherwise all of his internal monologues about Nicki and in general are 100% positive, loving, respectful, grateful and whathaveyou. (until the last 5% where you choose to be a dick and he goes all Mr. Hyde) Which is harder to buy, because while one can act in front of others to fool them about what sort of a person you are, you don't fake your internal thoughts.

To be honest, evil Guy was always inconsistent, even in the original Chapter 1, he had internal thoughts that showed he cared about Nicki.

But then rectifying it would require quite a bit more writing, since you'd basically have to write 2-3 different Guys.

 

[Dessolos]

i like how all these peaple that dont like the dark path and dont play it give their opinion on it , you should let the peaple who actually enjoy it give the critics for it , you dont see us going around trying to force the way we play on the game

eh I do play it just I play it rather differently that most dark path enjoyers. I just want to see what happens to guy so I only read the dialogue and skip the sex scenes it just isn't my main path.

 

[BarbarianBallet]

Can someone tell me what's changed in the remake? Is it a re-write or art upgrades or what?

 

[ffive]

Can someone tell me what's changed in the remake? Is it a re-write or art upgrades or what?

Both. The renders were replaced with ones which match quality of the rest/late part of the game, and the prologue got large extension of backstory between Guy and Nicki, together with changes to your options how things can play out.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

As it is now, the first thing the reader learns about Guy-before his newfound wealth, before his family situation, before Nicki, before whatever else you can think of that might be important-is that he is the type of person who can be be suckered into gambling away his entire bank account by some guy on the internet who gives motivational speeches that wouldn't fool your average middle school kid. Now, I know from having played the rest of the game that Guy isn't normally like that and this is just a one-time stupid mistake that he only makes because he was drunk off his ass at the time, and even if I didn't the game does explain that immediately after. Still, if I were a new player and the first impression I had of Guy was from this scene, I'd probably expect his gullibility to be more of a core character trait and brace myself for scenes where he gets suckered into giving his newfound riches away or struggles to recognize when people are obviously using him or something.

The original intro starts with a couple of lines explaining that Guy has recently made a fortune and then explains how he got there, and I think the new chapter one should do this too. As long as literally anything about the main character is shown before his one big huge drunken mistake there shouldn't be a issue.

I'm sure for some people, naivety is a 'core trait', but I think for most, it's more of a perspective that's tempered by experience. Lots of people can identify with it, and have learned from it, and it makes for a good character arc.

I think it might actually be part of the problem. Players generally hate to be saddled with a loser MC and have dumb decisions forced on them for the sake of the plot, and this is now their first and thus potentially long-lasting (if not last) impression of Guy. "I don't want to play (or associate with) someone this dumb" is a valid reaction.

The previous iteration was more of a blank slate, with prologue being relatively simpler and done in rougher strokes. This one in comparison doesn't leave much room for interpretation. Guy is what he is, a paranoid, easily conned idiot and also maybe a creep.

At risk of sounding self-righteous, I think all of that seems like the player's issue; integrating themselves into the MC too hard to the point where they're sensitive to plot turns or character flaws and what not; and, imo, failing to sympathize with Guy's mistake. Guy clearly isn't dumb, that's proven in later chapters. He just made a mistake. This seems to be a common theme not just here, but in general in internet comments; someone makes a critical mistake, and you have a wall of people calling them stupid. I don't want to assume too much or come off as insulting, but I wonder if sometimes this is a projection of the player's own insecurities, i.e. they've held themselves to such high standards that fucking up like a normal person makes them a moron, and in turn are repugned by a character who isn't some hypercompetent hero genius.

Money doesn't change you, it just brings out who you always were deep inside

it's like why some people, when they're drunk they become violent, and some people, when they're drunk they become

a lovable little kitten kissing you all over the place

the alcohol doesn't change you, it just brings out who you really are inside


When nice guy gets money, he becomes a really sweet person because that's who he always was inside, but never had the chance

Well, I wouldn't quite say that. Some people get violent with alcohol because they have repressed anger or trauma. They might not be inherently violent, but bottled up emotions always come out violently.

And as for drugs, and wealth, and power, personally, I see most people as very complex and nuanced, and I think those things can tempt you in ways you aren't accustomed to, or drag your mind to darker places that you'd normally resist. The 'real you' is the person you fight to be every day in sobered thought, imo. Drugs and wealth and power can lose that fight for you.

It's like if you're married, and then suddenly a bus full of supermodels want to fuck you... you going to deny them to keep your vows intact? Or are you going to crumble to a fantasy you've had your entire life? Probably the latter. But, maybe the guilt eats you, maybe you lose your cherished marriage, and so on. But the next time you're married and that second bus load of even hotter supermodels stop by, maybe you've grown enough as a person to resist it. I hope I'm making sense.

 

[Pixillin']

At risk of sounding self-righteous, I think all of that seems like the player's issue; integrating themselves into the MC too hard to the point where they're sensitive to plot turns or character flaws and what not; and, imo, failing to sympathize with Guy's mistake. Guy clearly isn't dumb, that's proven in later chapters. He just made a mistake. This seems to be a common theme not just here, but in general in internet comments; someone makes a critical mistake, and you hve a wall of people calling them stupid. I don't want to assume too much or come off as insulting, but I wonder if sometimes this is a projection of the player's own insecurities, i.e. they've held themselves to such high standards that fucking up like a normal person makes them a moron, and in turn are repugned by a character who isn't some hypercompetent hero genius.

Self insertion is unavoidable and there is nothing the Dev can do to ease it really. People self insert in books and movies (hence the audience groaning and complaining when someone does something stupid in a horror movie). With video games it's even worse, and I'm sure it's one of the reasons for their popularity - people self insert to a greater extent because it's interactive and they get to make the choices.

Unfortunately, if the MC (and others) don't make mistakes, do dumb things and otherwise fuck up, there is no real plot. Perfect people being perfect and making all the right decisions isn't much of a story. Also, there is no way a dev can account for every possible choice a player might want to make. Every scene would take months to create and the file sizes would be massive.

So there's no fixing it. People are going to self insert (if they don't it means they aren't really enjoying it), the MC and other characters are going to do stupid things, players are going to complain about it and none of it can be helped.

 

[ffive]

At risk of sounding self-righteous, I think all of that seems like the player's issue; integrating themselves into the MC too hard to the point where they're sensitive to plot turns or character flaws and what not; and, imo, failing to sympathize with Guy's mistake.

Even if it was player's issue, getting self-righteous about it isn't going to change their impressions (of both character and by extension, the game) for the better. If anything, it's more likely to cause just the opposite, since no one really reacts favorably to hearing "this is fine, you are the problem".

But i also don't think it's entirely something you can attribute to self-insertion -- even people who don't self-insert in the character aren't obliged and often won't empathize with someone who's plain annoying to watch and doesn't invoke much sympathy as a character. Everybody makes mistakes, but it also doesn't mean that every mistake will be sympathized with, and some are bound to instead evoke just, to quote certain guardian of the galaxy, "booo hoooo".

It is especially easy to be dismissive or irritated with character whose bad impression is also the first impression they ever make. Because people tend to give a pass someone they've known for a while and feel some actual connection with, but this aspect is lacking when it's complete stranger.

And it does not help that those first impressions can be very long lasting.