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MilesEdgeworth

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Nov 8, 2021
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PHIL101-YYouPPHard

Active Member
Jan 11, 2022
943
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Some people need to chill lol

Have to remember that this game is being designed with the goal of being finished in mind (knock on wood). You can't judge it purely in piecemeal. Sometimes an update demands some narrative/character development, and sometimes it's ready to deliver on its scenes. I get the frustration of firing up an update and expecting you'll get to nut only to realize there's no nut to be had, but it's not like Neon is trying to edge-dom you or something.. :LOL:

Another thing: people should start thinking of the game in terms of highways with on and off ramps rather than purely as locked-in routes. Obviously there are some things that are going to be irreversible and Neon can't account for every single possible decision and branching point that could exist, and eventually our MC is probably going to have to permanently commit to a single ending with a girl; but the game isn't as simple as some people are assuming.

Yes, the official SUPER dark route is coming to a close sooner rather than later; but a more nuanced dark (or dark-ish, at least) route playthrough that doesn't throw caution to the wind for every single girl... is probably going to stick around for quite a while longer.

It's also heavily dependent on the individual LIs; some can take more than others, some are more meek, others are rebellious spitfires, some are just as fucked as evil Guy, and so on. Routes that are so reactive to the characters themselves should be a dream come true for a player.

There's so much to take into account, I wish people would recognize and appreciate the sheer complexity of it all instead of just knocking it because it doesn't fit into every other game's usual logic. When this game is eventually completed, it's going to be so fun and exciting for new players to have such a huge, varied world to play in. And returning players as well, of course, to see the decision tree play through in full without being chopped up in their head so much.
 

vez

Newbie
Jul 26, 2017
22
193
If I were to be nitpicky about Nicki, it'd be about how this choice
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seems to send Guy into the "corruption" path. I'd be fine with it, but up to this point I'd only made all the worst choices regarding Nicki and to now have them be friendly and fistbumping over breakfast is a bit jarring :LOL:

Maybe it's related to how Neon wants to reshape her whole storyline with the remake and it will make more sense then. Otherwise, it might be worth looking into when you go through the whole game again when you revamp it.

And hey, happy new year, Neon (and everyone else)!
 
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Innocience

Member
Mar 25, 2020
404
689
Looks like a lot of drama is ahead of us. Not sure if I've seen all the variations yet but these are my impressions so far:

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Interesting to see the next couple of scenes are already included in the current version.
I couldn't resist and took the opportunity to re-enable it and have a look.
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Overall, I found the amount of content somewhat lacking. But given how often I had to play the game to see all these interesting conversations without any of them ever feeling like they didn't belong or didn't fit together I don't mind waiting for the quality Neon put into their work.

Still one of the best story AVNs with consequential and great writing along with great characters and interesting branching paths and choices. All the best for the next updates and a happy new year!
 
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Machete

Engaged Member
Apr 7, 2020
2,553
4,528
Quick FYI to touch on some comments I saw.

Not Enough Sex: No, there's not a ton of sex content in this one. Nicki has two alignment-dependent scenes, Ashe has a short one, Brittani has some teasing, and Pepper has some webcam content. I said this a few times over the last month, and over on my pages, but the original plan was for this to be part of a larger chapter, which would have included three more sex scenes at various points on the light/dark axis, and some big story developments for Gabby. But, I got in the weeds with the update, and would have needed to push the release date back by at least a month, and likely more. Which leads me to my next point..

Too Short: See my comment about getting in the weeds. Basically, my decision to end the last chapter with the player in several very different circumstances (Sleeping alone, sleeping with Nicki, sleeping with Ashe, sleeping with Risa..) along with several other modifiers (Did you know Pepper is a camgirl? Did you know Nicki left? Was Ashe happy with you when she slept over? Is Carolina and Maya happy with you?) just wound up being more work than anticipated. So, an update with almost 900 renders can be played through one time, and you may only see 450 of those.

Do I Need to Wait for the Next Two Official Releases? Not really. The new stuff will come after the events of 0.55, and it's just my attempt to put a nicer bow on the end of the chapter. I'll release that stuff as a patch for people who don't want to re-download the whole update.

Dubya-tee-eff, No More Dark Content? Not really.. Again, this has been a converstion before. I was warning of this even before the last update, and everyone was saying it'd be the death of the game and blah blah blah.. Then the Ashe chapter came out, and I think people realized the truth was more nuanced. My goal has never been to force people into the box of being a good guy. Just that there be realistic consequences for being a bad guy. Consequences =/= punishment, by the way. Learning that Brittani's mom is basically willing to sell her to you is a consequence of being a bad guy, feeding into the dark path. But, so is driving off Nicki, and dealing with the repercussions that come with that. I just want to explore what happens to a Guy who's basically constantly lashing out at the people around him. While he may drive a lot of people away, that doesn't mean everyone will be in a position to leave immediately, and it doesn't mean he might not attract other like-minded people.

Also, to be perfectly blunt, it's never been my intention to write pure misery porn. I've played games that went that route, and I don't think there's any real meat on that bone. I'm trying to make like.. Breaking Bad, not A Serbian Film.

Also, also? Even the vanilla paths for characters will get trimmed a bit, just based on what the story needs. Like, Nicki's around all the time because she's your assistant. How much do we really need to see a Carolina who's been relegated to a friend path? Not much, I'd reckon.

Now, I also think it's worth noting that Not Enough Sex/Too Short are the direct results of me trying to address other critiques I'd previously gotten. People complained that the story wasn't moving fast enough. Okay, now we have scenes advancing the story of Pepper's bruises, your relationship with Nicki, your relationship with Ashe, Brittani's relationship with her mom, the future of your collaboration with Brittani, another glimpse at a place MC's invested in, a look at the downside of fame with being stalked by internet oddballs, a look at Alex's past, the idea that MC's going to learn some self-defense, Maya and Carolina's relationship with MC being dependent on how MC's treated Nicki, the photo mystery having another clue put into place, and more stuff besides. Story movement tends to come at the expense of long sex scenes.

People also dinged me for only presenting the 'illusion of choice.' Well, now the game radically diverges based on what you chose last chapter. But again, that does come at the expense of having one long, mostly linear update.

I'm not putting the blame on people who commented asking for more story/more choices, by the way. Ultimately, I'm the one who made the thing, for good or ill. But, sometimes I like to take these things as a challenge, and use them as inspiration to try new things. It's not always successful!

If I had put this update out as I envisioned it, with sex content for Risa and Mason, and double the renders/story stuff, I feel a lot of these complaints would be moot. But, I've only got so many hours in a day, which I can only devote a few of to game development. So, I made the best thing I could with the time alloted to me, and got it into my paying supporters' hands, because I feel like I owe it to them. I've always said I don't want to be a dev who dithers around for a year or more and then puts out a single update.
I think this is exactly the problem.

In the route i'm playing MC is the nice guy, he's in great relationship with Nikki, he spent the night with Ashe, great relationship with her too, he is in the good guy route with Brittani, all perfectly lecit choices, but having choosed the reception brat at the end of last chapter i got exactly 0 content.

Just the dumb influencers, a chat with Brittani slut mother (and barely any interaction with Brittani, sure none sexy), and not even anithing to do with Pepper in cam.

Zero content.

I think the game it's cutting out the player too early for perfectly reasonable and lecit choice and this can derail the experience midgame. I've seen it happen to other games, that started well and ended very lame with basically a couple of hours of click forward with nothing happening and then a 'very satisfing' bad ending. Maybe because you chosed the route of a girl who's plot has been sidelined (an nothing suggester you shouldn't have had) or because you choiced to gift a girl chocolate instead of flowers early in the game again with no indication of that being the wrong choice.

With a much branching game like yours, Neon Ghost (which by the way is a great thing) you need to be able to recover interactions later in the game, or be in some solid route that happens even if your go through sideroads.

If some early choice close entire routes and the player is left with nothing to do the experience turn frustrating very quick.

Mine is not a critic, it's a concerned feedback having just had a not so good gaming experience (again with choices by no mean terrible).
 

Joshy92

Devoted Member
Mar 25, 2021
11,281
24,916
Some people need to chill lol

Have to remember that this game is being designed with the goal of being finished in mind (knock on wood). You can't judge it purely in piecemeal. Sometimes an update demands some narrative/character development, and sometimes it's ready to deliver on its scenes. I get the frustration of firing up an update and expecting you'll get to nut only to realize there's no nut to be had, but it's not like Neon is trying to edge-dom you or something.. :LOL:

Another thing: people should start thinking of the game in terms of highways with on and off ramps rather than purely as locked-in routes. Obviously there are some things that are going to be irreversible and Neon can't account for every single possible decision and branching point that could exist, and eventually our MC is probably going to have to permanently commit to a single ending with a girl; but the game isn't as simple as some people are assuming.

Yes, the official SUPER dark route is coming to a close sooner rather than later; but a more nuanced dark (or dark-ish, at least) route playthrough that doesn't throw caution to the wind for every single girl... is probably going to stick around for quite a while longer.

It's also heavily dependent on the individual LIs; some can take more than others, some are more meek, others are rebellious spitfires, some are just as fucked as evil Guy, and so on. Routes that are so reactive to the characters themselves should be a dream come true for a player.

There's so much to take into account, I wish people would recognize and appreciate the sheer complexity of it all instead of just knocking it because it doesn't fit into every other game's usual logic. When this game is eventually completed, it's going to be so fun and exciting for new players to have such a huge, varied world to play in. And returning players as well, of course, to see the decision tree play through in full without being chopped up in their head so much.
That's a great way to look at it bro
And you are right this game is a dream come true for me
It's the kind of game I love.
 

MilesEdgeworth

Well-Known Member
Nov 8, 2021
1,880
2,379
Yea I prefer the story being told over needless sex scenes to masturbate to. Each LI has their own story in their own world, not really that much to complain about
 
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Machete

Engaged Member
Apr 7, 2020
2,553
4,528
Yea I prefer the story being told over needless sex scenes to masturbate to. Each LI has their own story in their own world, not really that much to complain about
Totally agree. Yet, if Brittani mother is indeed story proceeding, the influencers are just unnecessarely distraction. And then brousing for infos we already knew like Pepper being a cam stripper. That's a waste of space on an already thigh project.
 
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MilesEdgeworth

Well-Known Member
Nov 8, 2021
1,880
2,379
Totally agree. Yet, if Brittani mother is indeed story proceeding, the influencers are just unnecessarely distraction. And then brousing for infos we already knew like Pepper being a cam stripper. That's a waste of space on an already thigh project.
I get the feeling if the female influencer keeps fucking with Guy, she's gonna get what she's looking for and she wont be too happy receiving it
 
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Spfjolietjake

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 26, 2019
7,515
14,666
Yup, sorry everybody, only good, clean vanilla fun with Nicki from now on. I definitely don't intentionally put in a ton of options that enable you to be super dominant and uninterested in romance, while still keeping the love interests around.

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It isn't about the dominance for me, it's the abuse, degrading and wonderful humiliation that I loved. Regardless happy new year and thanks for the entertainment you brought me in the past and hopefully in the future.
 

Badjourasmix

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 22, 2017
7,090
15,983
Sorry I haven't really paid much attention to this thread. Is there a dark version also available or it's just the vanilla version for now and the dark version will be released later?
 

Spfjolietjake

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 26, 2019
7,515
14,666
Sorry I haven't really paid much attention to this thread. Is there a dark version also available or it's just the vanilla version for now and the dark version will be released later?
I believe only the dark compressed is available ATM, at least I only seen them links added. The dev mentioned there would be more added in the public release in a few days so I'm personally going to wait.
 

Spfjolietjake

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 26, 2019
7,515
14,666
While him being good at hot scenario is true, I think you are dismissing IMO his biggest talent, which from the games I played so far he seems unparalleled in, and that is attention to details across multiple possible routes and scenarios and all of them happen as consequences of what the MC has done so far in the game. Every small variation in renders and/or dialogue comes as a consequence of past choices, its unfortunate that one of those had an undesirable result for you, but if you treat them like a monster constantly, it makes sense for them to try to escape their fate, eventually.

Nicki specifically since among Vaughn, the Loan shark dude, Brent and MC, MC on the dark path has done the worst to her, not even close. Expecting her to take it from start to finish of the VN, it would mean character progress hasn't happened and in any type of media where characters end the same way they started the story are badly written. And Neon is not a bad writer.

If you were expecting this to be the Dark Version of WVM where no matter how you play you still win everything, sorry, then you haven't been paying attention...
I'm not dismissing their writing talent at all. They have skills. Nor am I expecting a dark wvm. I was just stating that I was sad that content that I enjoyed, and that was done well, is ended and I feel sad for it.

Everybody has things they like and want to enjoy more of.

And I have paid attention, I just thought her having enough would come at the end of the vn or just not this soon.
 

armond

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2020
1,591
5,418
I think this is exactly the problem.

In the route i'm playing MC is the nice guy, he's in great relationship with Nikki, he spent the night with Ashe, great relationship with her too, he is in the good guy route with Brittani, all perfectly lecit choices, but having choosed the reception brat at the end of last chapter i got exactly 0 content.

Just the dumb influencers, a chat with Brittani slut mother (and barely any interaction with Brittani, sure none sexy), and not even anithing to do with Pepper in cam.

Zero content.

I think the game it's cutting out the player too early for perfectly reasonable and lecit choice and this can derail the experience midgame. I've seen it happen to other games, that started well and ended very lame with basically a couple of hours of click forward with nothing happening and then a 'very satisfing' bad ending. Maybe because you chosed the route of a girl who's plot has been sidelined (an nothing suggester you shouldn't have had) or because you choiced to gift a girl chocolate instead of flowers early in the game again with no indication of that being the wrong choice.

With a much branching game like yours, Neon Ghost (which by the way is a great thing) you need to be able to recover interactions later in the game, or be in some solid route that happens even if your go through sideroads.

If some early choice close entire routes and the player is left with nothing to do the experience turn frustrating very quick.

Mine is not a critic, it's a concerned feedback having just had a not so good gaming experience (again with choices by no mean terrible).
I think you're wrong, the update was very content rich and I'm still amazed by the reactivity in this story, the choices you make actually matter and have consequences/payoffs.
 
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