VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch.10 v0.71] [NeonGhosts]

[NeonGhosts]

If the game evokes certain emotions among the players and generates a heated discussion, then we can say that this is a success. Lack of any reaction is what's bad.
My congratulations on your success.

100%! I love seeing the discussion here. I was actually talking to another dev who expressed their surprise at how active this thread was, so kudos to you folks!

Can’t wait to see reactions to the next update. Lots of big plot developments!

 

[NewTricks]

I though about that possibility while playing but it doesn't make sense.
The first time it was Brent idea to ask for money. The second time she doesn't ask for money. She wants shelter and she says she had paid most of her new debt. So we can say she's not the sharpest tool in the shed or that she has bad luck but it doesn't look like a gold digger.
On the other hand she has now a rich degenerate obssesed with her, I'm talking about the Florida guy not our MC
So I think that while she is not ill intentioned she's problems.

What doesn't really make sense is either of her stories. Especially the second one, that is all over the place. I think that NG make it intentionally outlandish to induce incredulity because he is planning to do something interesting with the character. It could be totally true, partially true, or not true at all. This isn't to say that she doesn't have the capacity to care about the MC (or be induced to obedience) but characters are more interesting when they are complicated.

 

[jish55]

100%! I love seeing the discussion here. I was actually talking to another dev who expressed their surprise at how active this thread was, so kudos to you folks!

Can’t wait to see reactions to the next update. Lots of big plot developments!

I think it also helps that you're here interacting with us and showing us that you appreciate us pirates enough, that's one of the aspects that makes me respect you and your work more. Also, you're coming off as genuine and someone doing this game because you want to, not for money, and that in turn shows in your work and how the game is playing out.

 

[Hildegardt]

What doesn't really make sense is either of her stories.

Do they really make less sense than her coming back to the PC, if you decided to abuse and humiliate her further the first time she asked for money? Even raping her doesn't close her path afaik.
Desperate people act out of desperation. Sometimes starving people even eat their own limbs.

 

[NewTricks]

Do they really make less sense than her coming back to the PC, if you decided to abuse and humiliate her further the first time she asked for money? Even raping her doesn't close her path afaik.
Desperate people act out of desperation. Sometimes starving people even eat their own limbs.

Exactly yes it makes less sense for her to come back to MC. When you are good to her it makes little sense, when you are terrible to her it makes no sense. Yet here she is, jumping from the frying skillet into the campfire in the hard path. Yet I don't feel that it is desperation. I really don't think she is that stupid nor do I feel that she is that desperate. I just do not buy her sob story. There are too many holes in it and inconsistencies. I'm certain that it won't take more than a day or two for MC to be opening the fridge and suddenly realize that something is rotten in Denmark, ask her to tell the story again, and get a different tale because once she got what she wanted she memory holed a detail or two. There is something more to the story, and I am interested to discover what that is.

Let's just pull one thread and see how it unravels. The entire stated point of cryptocurrency and blockchain technology is so that you can make purchases and trades without leaving a record. Yet the first thing that she tells him is she found out because his cryptocurrency trade left a record. Where? How did a dipshit like Brent even think to look and know where to look? From the very first part of her story there is shit that doesn't add up. Once the dominos start to get knocked over one by one her entire story, both of them, fall apart. I don't think that there was ever any loan shark. If there was Brent wouldn't be texting because none of his fingers would work. I think that the mob porn shoot was a total fabrication because she gives zero explanation on how she got out of that situation. I just think that based on the writing in the rest of the VN it isn't a NeonGhost story problem it is a story feature.

 

[Hildegardt]

Yet I don't feel that it is desperation. I really don't think she is that stupid nor do I feel that she is that desperate.

Why not? You don't have to be stupid to be desperate.

How did a dipshit like Brent even think to look and know where to look?

I gotta admit I don't remember the beginning of the game too well anymore, but didn't Brent and the PC talk about crypto in person and Brent felt like he's owed a cut, because he thinks he tipped the PC off?

I don't think that there was ever any loan shark. If there was Brent wouldn't be texting because none of his fingers would work.

Wasn't the loan under Nikki's name and she paid it off with the money from her pseudo sugar daddy?

I think that the mob porn shoot was a total fabrication because she gives zero explanation on how she got out of that situation.

She said she convinced the goons that she would do the shoot and then sneaked out of the bathroom window, which is why she was dressed like a hooker and lost all her belongings, because she had to leave them behind.

 

[Hongfire Survivor]

Why not? You don't have to be stupid to be desperate.

I gotta admit I don't remember the beginning of the game too well anymore, but didn't Brent and the PC talk about crypto in person and Brent felt like he's owed a cut, because he thinks he tipped the PC off?

Wasn't the loan under Nikki's name and she paid it off with the money from her pseudo sugar daddy?

She said she convinced the goons that she would do the shoot and then sneaked out of the bathroom window, which is why she was dressed like a hooker and lost all her belongings, because she had to leave them behind.

It's kinda looking like people are commenting on a VN they played for like 15 minutes at best.

You were clearly paying attention because yes, you are right on all accounts.

MC even explictly asks why isn't Brent on the hook and that is when she comes out and says it's under her name.

MC and Nikki were best friends, in this story, that actually means something.

 

[Hongfire Survivor]

*snip*

Correct.

Remember Patreon does not like said content, so most devs now [redacted] so that [redacted] can [redacted].

Then we get to play the content

 

[v1900]

Exactly yes it makes less sense for her to come back to MC. When you are good to her it makes little sense, when you are terrible to her it makes no sense. Yet here she is, jumping from the frying skillet into the campfire in the hard path. Yet I don't feel that it is desperation. I really don't think she is that stupid nor do I feel that she is that desperate. I just do not buy her sob story. There are too many holes in it and inconsistencies. I'm certain that it won't take more than a day or two for MC to be opening the fridge and suddenly realize that something is rotten in Denmark, ask her to tell the story again, and get a different tale because once she got what she wanted she memory holed a detail or two. There is something more to the story, and I am interested to discover what that is.

Let's just pull one thread and see how it unravels. The entire stated point of cryptocurrency and blockchain technology is so that you can make purchases and trades without leaving a record. Yet the first thing that she tells him is she found out because his cryptocurrency trade left a record. Where? How did a dipshit like Brent even think to look and know where to look? From the very first part of her story there is shit that doesn't add up. Once the dominos start to get knocked over one by one her entire story, both of them, fall apart. I don't think that there was ever any loan shark. If there was Brent wouldn't be texting because none of his fingers would work. I think that the mob porn shoot was a total fabrication because she gives zero explanation on how she got out of that situation. I just think that based on the writing in the rest of the VN it isn't a NeonGhost story problem it is a story feature.

I think that the bulk of the plot holes are due to what the dev said some days ago about the crossover and original script that never came to be. It would have given her story more weight, not that it would have changed my opinion of her, she would still be aboard the rape train. I think that if it came to be, it would have somewhat made it plausible for her to come back even if you raped her before. In that plot her situation could have been determined by the player instead of what it is now the canon.

I think that if the dev gave us the option of deciding how far she went as it was planned for the crossover, we could have more congruent paths for either love or corruption. Say you did not choose to rape her, then you choose the option that Nicki did not shoot hardcore porn, that makes more sense in my book for a love path. On the other hand, say you did rape her, then you choose the option where she did shoot hardcore porn, now you have her hitting rock bottom and can make some mental gymnastics to justify her return to her rapist best friend.

 

[Ragnar]

What doesn't really make sense is either of her stories. Especially the second one, that is all over the place. I think that NG make it intentionally outlandish to induce incredulity because he is planning to do something interesting with the character. It could be totally true, partially true, or not true at all. This isn't to say that she doesn't have the capacity to care about the MC (or be induced to obedience) but characters are more interesting when they are complicated.

It makes sense to some extent. There are people irl that prey on the week, specially on women and children. The bit about no sex with the Florida guy doesn't make much sense but I understand why the dev wants to avoid the feared three letters tag. She was already up to her neck in shit thanks to Brent, the Florida escapade was going from the frying pan into the fire.

 

[NeonGhosts]

I think it also helps that you're here interacting with us and showing us that you appreciate us pirates enough, that's one of the aspects that makes me respect you and your work more. Also, you're coming off as genuine and someone doing this game because you want to, not for money, and that in turn shows in your work and how the game is playing out.

Happy to do it! I was here as a member way before I ever even considered developing a game, so I know this place is just as much a big advertising spot, as it is a pirate board. I wound up supporting a bunch of games that I first discovered here.

And I gotta say, it kills me reading people's theories and not being able to just let loose with spoilers.

Today, I'm working on the overhaul of the first chapter of the game, which will add more texture to the relationships between Brent, Nicki, and Guy/MC, diversify the sex scenes a bit (for instance, the love path sex may end up in the bedroom instead of the living room floor), tidy up the code in a way that will help me refer to events later, and hopefully clean up any little logic leaps. One thing I'm prrrrrrobably going to to do is gently nudge down the amount of debt Nicki and Brent found themselves in. I was aiming for a sum of money large enough that it'd feel like an insurmountable climb for anyone making convenience store wages, and "small" enough that it'd be fairly easy for a multi-millionaire to handle it. But, I think I overshot a bit with the initial sum, and it wound up stretching credulity in a way that became distracting.

But hey, that''s something worth asking about: what's something you'd like to see in a revamped Chapter One? And no, throwing Nicki off the balcony isn't an option.

I might (might, might, might) open up a just-friends path in Chapter One, if I can square it with Chapter Three, with minimal work. I don't want to get bogged down in making a bunch of changes, but that's been one of the most-requested features. I was always reluctant to do it, but I think I found a way that will make story sense, and still feed into Chapter Three pretty easily.

 

[NewTricks]

Why not? You don't have to be stupid to be desperate.

I gotta admit I don't remember the beginning of the game too well anymore, but didn't Brent and the PC talk about crypto in person and Brent felt like he's owed a cut, because he thinks he tipped the PC off?

Wasn't the loan under Nikki's name and she paid it off with the money from her pseudo sugar daddy?

She said she convinced the goons that she would do the shoot and then sneaked out of the bathroom window, which is why she was dressed like a hooker and lost all her belongings, because she had to leave them behind.

A lot of these things are making an incredibly dangerous assumption that any of her assertions, provided with zero evidence, is in any way truthful instead of a plot she ripped off from a mid-1990s movie starring Julie Delphy.

 

[Ulrich von Liechtenstein]

Today, I'm working on the overhaul of the first chapter of the game, which will add more texture to the relationships between Brent, Nicki, and Guy/MC
I might (might, might, might) open up a just-friends path in Chapter One, if I can square it with Chapter Three, with minimal work.

Dear NeonGhosts.
It's great that you want to remake the first part of the game, it seems a bit incoherent and deserves more realism. I get that Nikki is a silly girl but there still has to be something she liked about that jerk Brent. Maybe it would have been better to make him a handsome scoundrel, eh that eternal cliché about girls falling for handsome scoundrels I think it would have been more realistic that way. In addition, could you please change that part of the conversation in chapter 3 when she says she's always liked the main character. I mean, really who can believe that? Personally, I was overcome with some creepy laughter.
Otherwise, thank you so much for your work. I'm really looking forward to the love parth of the story for some reason I don't think there's a single female here who deserves to be treated badly

 

[Osamabeenfappin]

o/~I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian!o/~

You forgot the EXPLOSIVE finale.

 

[Urusaisenpai]

As always. I find gem of a game like this sooooo late. How? I dont know either. Loved it.
Keep and it NeonGhosts

 

[NeonGhosts]

Dear NeonGhosts.
It's great that you want to remake the first part of the game, it seems a bit incoherent and deserves more realism. I get that Nikki is a silly girl but there still has to be something she liked about that jerk Brent. Maybe it would have been better to make him a handsome scoundrel, eh that eternal cliché about girls falling for handsome scoundrels I think it would have been more realistic that way. In addition, could you please change that part of the conversation in chapter 3 when she says she's always liked the main character. I mean, really who can believe that? Personally, I was overcome with some creepy laughter.
Otherwise, thank you so much for your work. I'm really looking forward to the love parth of the story for some reason I don't think there's a single female here who deserves to be treated badly

I definitely want to give Brent a little more depth in his upcoming appearances. My one big regret about not having that Regional Manager crossover, is that I actually wrote Brent to be a little bit sympathetic, if still a spineless little weasel. I may actually release that, once Horizontical releases the version that'll make it into his game..

We really only got to see him for a little while, but in my eyes, Brent was probably always kind of a shithead. Not necessarily an awful person, but obsessed with money and prestige, and always taking shortcuts to get there. Usually with disastrous results. Younger Nicki made the mistake a lot of girls that age make, and confused being an asshole for being confident. By the time we join the story, it's not really that he's gotten any worse, it's just that she's outgrown him but still can't move on.

I doubt I'll make any significant changes to that bit in Chapter Three, because I kind of like it, and it'd be a lot to rewrite and re-render.. But, I'd like to add more context, and actually show Nicki and MC's friendship. And I'll probably scrub that stuff about them not hanging out outside of work, and focus more on the idea that they spent time together, it was just never romantic. In retrospect, I'm not sure why I made that decision to begin with, other than to focus on the idea that it was their first time being alone together. Which is.. dumb. Dumb Neon.

Also: Fantastic user name, fantastic movie.

As always. I find gem of a game like this sooooo late. How? I dont know either. Loved it.
Keep and it NeonGhosts

Thanks so much!

 

[Alfred the Fallen]

it kills me reading people's theories and not being able to just let loose with spoilers.

Well, here's another prediction for you to not comment about...

Nikki is going compare us to Vaughn when she sees us getting involved with Gabby. She sees herself in Gabby and will want to meddle in our affairs out of a combination of jealousy and genuine concern. Players will hate Nikki even more because she's not entirely wrong (for once).

what's something you'd like to see in a revamped Chapter One?

I didn't like how the MC tried to shove his thumb up her butt without any input from the player, so maybe replace the choice to stop/continue with an earlier choice to either do it or don't. It's not a big issue or anything, but I don't think there are any big issues with the first chapter.

And I'll probably scrub that stuff about them not hanging out outside of work, and focus more on the idea that they spent time together, it was just never romantic. In retrospect, I'm not sure why I made that decision to begin with, other than to focus on the idea that it was their first time being alone together.

Not spending time together outside of work gives the MC another good reason not to have made a move on Nikki earlier and it also makes her visit to see the main character more of an exciting and unusual event for him. He went from feeling alone and unfulfilled, to also being embarrassed that he may have been caught creeping on her online photos, to optimistically hoping that his unrealistic dreams could possibly be coming true (again).

If they were regular friends who had routinely been spending time together outside of work, then we don't get quite the same roller-coaster where one minute everything's coming up Milhouse, and the next we're hit with a hard snap back to reality where you realize that she is just a former coworker who is after your newfound money, and you're dumb for getting your hopes up. It would also be less of a shock for Nikki to get the money from you without any strings if she's an established friend rather than just a coworker.

 

[vonamatas]

One thing I'm prrrrrrobably going to to do is gently nudge down the amount of debt Nicki and Brent found themselves in. I was aiming for a sum of money large enough that it'd feel like an insurmountable climb for anyone making convenience store wages, and "small" enough that it'd be fairly easy for a multi-millionaire to handle it. But, I think I overshot a bit with the initial sum, and it wound up stretching credulity in a way that became distracting.

Bad idea in my opinion. Think like Brent, like a crook (small but with huge ambitions ... and needs). He wouldn't send Nicki for a penny, I rather think about money comparable to the price of a good new SUV. If Brent says he deserves a share of the MC profit, we're not talking about thousands or tens of thousands - there are millions in the game, are there?
Brent knows he won't get millions, but he's definitely counting on far more than a few hundred. Okay, he's got a debt problem, that's right. But they haven't kidnapped him or cut anything off him yet (if I remember correctly?), So it's not very serious. For him, Nicki is a separate topic. We don't know if Nicki knows the truth about Brent's debts and intentions. Is Nicki telling the truth when talking to MC (the version he believes in) or is he doing it by Brent who told her to do it? Both versions possible.
I assume that Nicki did not come to the MC on her own, without additional "motivation" - psychologically unlikely, not in her situation.

(translated by google, sorry)

 

[CrazyRabbit]

Dunno if someone already asked this but if you're just nice to Gabby the first time but without eating her out, are we stuck on the friendship route or is there another opportunity ? One where it feels less like you force her into it ?

 

[Osamabeenfappin]

Orrrrrrrr..... Brent is just a loser that works at a convenience store, never lost any money, and almost everything that Nikki has told as a sob story is bullshit. That in reality she just spent the last three months blowing through 20 grand's worth of spray tans and tattoos while hitting the dance club every night. That too is a possibility.

And now I'm thinking holy shit,could you imagine the shit storm that would kick up.

I would love to see that