VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [S1 v0.85c] [NeonGhosts]

[Dessolos]

I hated the re write of Nicki. It destroyed all the good things about her, it made her at all like someone guy would choose as a GF.

This is why I like it , as I want her to act like someone Guy would choose as a GF especially since Nice Guy is my main PT. Now I only played the intro of the remake. While I don't really play the dark path ( at least the sex scenes I skip those) I like this version of the dark path more too. Cause before it kind of gave Guy a reason / or tried to give him some justification to do dark path things to Nicki. Which is something I don't like if a character is going to be a rapist I rather they just do it cause they are a bad person and not try to justify it. Tho to be fair I had my issues with Nicki on the Dark Path before the remake anyways , to much porn / AVN logic there.

 

[Pixillin']

I hated the re write of Nicki. It destroyed all the good things about her, it made her at all like someone guy would choose as a GF. And destroyed that PT for me. And in my other PTs when the MC is not a DICK the messing with the two young girls is CRINGE for me ...

If you read this forum there were a lot of heated arguments about the original. There were two different interpretations of Nicki. There were people who thought she was a gold digging slut, and there were people who thought that she was Guy's old friend, turning to him out of desperation because no one else she knew could solve her problem. Neon clarified it in the remake, settling that argument once and for all.

For me the only real problem is the lack of competition for Nicki - before guy got rich, she was your closest friend, you share the same hobbies and interests, you were always into each other but nobody made a move. (In a way Nicki being with Brent is partially Guy's fault. She's very submissive, trusts Guy's judgment and Guy encouraged her to go out with him.) The others are all very young, share zero hobbies and interests with Guy (other than Ashe who shares some sexual kinks with him), and have problems only he can solve. They make nice arm candy, but that's about it. I mean they're nice girls but what are Brittani and Guy, or Gabi and Guy, or even Risa and Guy going to do or talk about when they're not fucking?

Carolina and Jun would have been the real competition for Nicki. They don't share hobbies and interests, as far as we know, but they're at least older and less naive. There is a certain amount of commonality that comes just from having been places, and seen things and done stuff outside of your parents home.

 

[The Anti]

#Jun4LoveInterest

 

[La Dani]

If you read this forum there were a lot of heated arguments about the original. There were two different interpretations of Nicki. There were people who thought she was a gold digging slut, and there were people who thought that she was Guy's old friend, turning to him out of desperation because no one else she knew could solve her problem. Neon clarified it in the remake, settling that argument once and for all.

For me the only real problem is the lack of competition for Nicki - before guy got rich, she was your closest friend, you share the same hobbies and interests, you were always into each other but nobody made a move. (In a way Nicki being with Brent is partially Guy's fault. She's very submissive, trusts Guy's judgment and Guy encouraged her to go out with him.) The others are all very young, share zero hobbies and interests with Guy (other than Ashe who shares some sexual kinks with him), and have problems only he can solve. They make nice arm candy, but that's about it. I mean they're nice girls but what are Brittani and Guy, or Gabi and Guy, or even Risa and Guy going to do or talk about when they're not fucking?

Isabella and Jun would have been the real competition for Nicki. They don't share hobbies and interests, as far as we know, but they're at least older and less naive. There is a certain amount of commonality that comes just from having been places, and seen things and done stuff outside of your parents home.

I really don't understand this hate for niky. But I'm a romantic man, so I liked her change a lot.

 

[Pixillin']

I really don't understand this hate for niky. But I'm a romantic man, so I liked her change a lot.

So did I, but the remade Nicki is basically the way I always saw her anyway.

 

[TD1900]

But, regarding the 'nice sex pest' thing... I don't know, I think people have over-complicated the whole power dynamic stuff. First off, in a porn game, you know the LI is into your character because that's the point. The only real question is how your MC treats your LI. Even in the real world, though, there's an uncountable number of relationships out there that have power dynamics. If you were to point that out to the women, that their husband or boyfriend was 'technically being problematic' when they made their move, or that their relationship isn't equal (if the guy makes more money, for example), they'd probably roll their eyes tbh. The power dynamics point is for vulnerable women up against toxic men, or unfortunately men who just don't know how to read cues. I think those are the groups that women are understandably sick of.

In this VN, if Guy is nice and you play him as someone with genuine intentions, having a way to majorly help the LIs only proves to them he's valuable, not that he's dangling something over them; that latter perspective is there for the corruption/dark routes, not the romance route.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, yadda yadda. The writing in FiN is very thoughtful and unflinching, and it oftens goes out of its way to frame scenarios for what they are. Just wait until Madison finds out you're boinking her barely legal daughter. That's going to be a doozy and is likely going to require Guy to not be very nice to pacify her. That is just my speculation though; I could be completely off base with that.

I did paint a false dichotomy though, because characters like Carolina or Ashe exist, so it's true that there's romances outside of Nicki that aren't skeevy. However, I just don't see how you can read a relationship with someone like Mason or Gabi as anything other than exploitative - even with the gentle approach.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, yadda yadda. The writing in FiN is very thoughtful and unflinching, and it oftens goes out of its way to frame scenarios for what they are. Just wait until Madison finds out you're boinking her barely legal daughter. That's going to be a doozy and is likely going to require Guy to not be very nice to pacify her. That is just my speculation though; I could be completely off base with that.

I did paint a false dichotomy though, because characters like Carolina or Ashe exist, so it's true that there's romances outside of Nicki that aren't skeevy. However, I just don't see how you can read a relationship with someone like Mason or Gabi as anything other than exploitative - even with the gentle approach.

Yeah, sorry, I was thinking of everyone but the really young ones even though they're half the cast lol. My broad point was just that people go too far overthinking relationship dynamics in general these days. But yes, the really young LIs would be very sus relationships in rl, power dynamics make perfect sense there. It's not totally black and white, though.

I mean, on the one hand, they're 18+, so they're legally adults that can make their own decisions; many young people have a good head on their shoulders and know what they want, so it's not like there isn't a way that it could work. And maybe the guy is genuine with his feelings, and isn't just trying to get some young poon because it's both easier and sweeter for him.

On the other, it's shocking how immature recent highschool graduates are, at least in the states. They definitely do not have things figured out, and they're going to bumble about for a while. Not really my business at the end of the day, but also not really appropriate for someone in their 30s or 40s or what have you to pursue them in general, imo.

Good thing for us this vn isn't rl and you can just play out your fantasies a little without consequences. I mean, surely the game is going to have consequences in the story, because it's trying to emulate real experiences. But, it's also going to lean heavily into the fantasy. I don't think Gabby's romance route is going to require Guy to be a pos, because that goes against the MC that the player might be constructing. I do think there'll definitely be some drama for sure, probably a falling out between the characters. As in, maybe Madison puts it on social media and the backlash hurts his reputation, which turns Gabby against her, and so on. But in the end, I think it's all going to work out if the MC plays his cards correctly. Hmmm. We'll see, we'll see.

 

[MightbeSomeone]

My issue is that Nicki without the part of her background with her Boyfriend makes things so odd, does not make sense. I do like the expanded story. But this change makes her very different in how Guy and her get a good story....

 

[Wolfram99]

It is weird to me that the people working in the building have +- unfettered access to his apartment, making keys, coming inside to drop the mail off. Probably the same weirdness as Valet service.
Where i live even the fanciest apartment buildings don't have such things as standard.'

Seems that not all continuity errors were phased out.
Nicki shouldn't know where the bathroom is on the platonic 1st ep.

Spoiler

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MC has been working at Barron books for a month now, so he should know the way.

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[ename144]

It is weird to me that the people working in the building have +- unfettered access to his apartment, making keys, coming inside to drop the mail off. Probably the same weirdness as Valet service.
Where i live even the fanciest apartment buildings don't have such things as standard.'

Seems that not all continuity errors were phased out.
Nicki shouldn't know where the bathroom is on the platonic 1st ep.

Spoiler

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MC has been working at Barron books for a month now, so he should know the way.

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I don't think the first one is an error. The MC's narration at the start of Chapter 4 suggests Nicki had used the bathroom offscreen shortly after her dramatic appearance at his door the night before.

Spoiler: Where Else Would She Clean Up?

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I agree the MC should already know where Madison's office is in the new version.

 

[Wolfram99]

don't think the first one is an error. The MC's narration at the start of Chapter 4 suggests Nicki had used the bathroom offscreen shortly after her dramatic appearance at his door the night before.

Still, it feels like a leftover from OG ch.1 where Nicki asks where the bathroom is to clean up after getting sexed.

Huh, are Chengs confirmed to be newly lewdable characters? Or are they completely off the table?.

 

[Joshy92]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, yadda yadda. The writing in FiN is very thoughtful and unflinching, and it oftens goes out of its way to frame scenarios for what they are. Just wait until Madison finds out you're boinking her barely legal daughter. That's going to be a doozy and is likely going to require Guy to not be very nice to pacify her. That is just my speculation though; I could be completely off base with that.

I did paint a false dichotomy though, because characters like Carolina or Ashe exist, so it's true that there's romances outside of Nicki that aren't skeevy. However, I just don't see how you can read a relationship with someone like Mason or Gabi as anything other than exploitative - even with the gentle approach.

I disagree about Mason. That changeroom scene where you can tell Mason you don't care what people think is a prime example of why a relationship with him can be equal and romantic.

 

[ename144]

I disagree about Mason. That changeroom scene where you can tell Mason you don't care what people think is a prime example of why a relationship with him can be equal and romantic.

I must disagree in turn. The relationship between them may be tender (if the player so chooses), but it *cannot* be equal given the circumstances between the two characters. For goodness sake, Mason will beg the MC not to hit him if the MC turns down a blow job!

Maybe things could be different a decade from now things if Mason gets a steady job and has time to unlearn all the horrible habits he had to learn to survive on the street. Maybe. Until then, Mason is at best beloved pet for the MC.

 

[Joshy92]

I must disagree in turn. The relationship between them may be tender (if the player so chooses), but it *cannot* be equal given the circumstances between the two characters. For goodness sake, Mason will beg the MC not to hit him if the MC turns down a blow job!

Maybe things could be different a decade from now things if Mason gets a steady job and has time to unlearn all the horrible habits he had to learn to survive on the street. Maybe. Until then, Mason is at best beloved pet for the MC.

I don't remember that but if he did it's because he's used to guys treating him like an object.

 

[ename144]

I don't remember that but if he did it's because he's used to guys treating him like an object.

Of course he is, that's my whole point; expecting abuse by sexual partners is a reflex action for Mason. That is not someone ready to be an equal partner in a relationship under the best of circumstance, much less when he's penniless and the other guy is a millionaire.

 

[ArDZer]

I must disagree in turn. The relationship between them may be tender (if the player so chooses), but it *cannot* be equal given the circumstances between the two characters. For goodness sake, Mason will beg the MC not to hit him if the MC turns down a blow job!

Maybe things could be different a decade from now things if Mason gets a steady job and has time to unlearn all the horrible habits he had to learn to survive on the street. Maybe. Until then, Mason is at best beloved pet for the MC.

If there's a scene where Mason finally remembers who were the scumbags that landed him in the hospital and receive their due punishment, that'd be interesting to see. Or have him confront his father since he threw him out of the house. Lady Karma gave to that violent bully hobo a taste of pain to his balls, or at least the protagonist did that.

 

[Joshy92]

Of course he is, that's my whole point; expecting abuse by sexual partners is a reflex action for Mason. That is not someone ready to be an equal partner in a relationship under the best of circumstance, much less when he's penniless and the other guy is a millionaire.

That could be the whole point of his romance path. It's probably to show Mason how awesome he is and that he deserves a loving relationship.

 

[Pixillin']

That could be the whole point of his romance path. It's probably to show Mason how awesome he is and that he deserves a loving relationship.

IIRC, Neon said that Mason is based on someone he knew and that if he's treated well, he'll gradually become less submissive and start asserting himself but I don't know how much time we have for that to unfold if we're at the half-way point in the story.

 

[ffive]

There are limits and always depends on the context at hand. Your girfriend asks you for money, later you discover that she has a gambling problem, you would be a fool if you lend her more money.

Would you be a fool, or would that be an attempt to protect the person you have feelings for from finding that money elsewhere and getting entangled with loan sharks or ever worse crowd? It's not like the person you refuse the money will magically just stop gambling, after all. Would you consider it smart to create such situation where your refusal renders the person vulnerable?

Things are very rarely as black and white as "they're a fool".

A saying can be dumb because it simplify complex situations, but at the same time we use it because it hit the nail on the head faster than a thousand words.

Sayings are popular because they provide easy approximation that frees the person relying on it from actually thinking for themselves for more than a moment. They don't hit nail on the head, they make it look like they do, without any way to tell whether the situation in question is one of those cases where they don't.

Since we're talking about sayings, here's another one: "even a broken clock is right twice a day". That is, ironically, what sayings are, in terms of accuracy.

 

[ffive]

I mean they're nice girls but what are Brittani and Guy, or Gabi and Guy, or even Risa and Guy going to do or talk about when they're not fucking?

Ugh, this again? You really think Nicki is somehow the only girl in this game who has ever played a video game, watched a movie cartoon, took part in a cosplay, worked a shitty job or did any of dozen other things that Guy and Nicki talk about? Let me remind: Guy is a fucking immature manchild. An 18-20 year old woman is actually closer to his mental level than a woman of his age. If anything, this is more of a reverse question -- what you think would an adult woman do or talk about with Guy when they're not fucking? Because most things she's dealt with, he hardly knows anything about. Relationships, friends, family, entertainment that isn't anime or games. Yeah, good luck on holding a meaningful discussion with our MC on those.